COT: Plain of Banishment v5.10c

[deepstrasz]

CoT is already around. Please provide evidence you have permission from the original author(s) to edit/upload.

A credits list in the map description with the names of the authors whose resources you've used is mandatory. That includes models, skins, icons, custom spells, systems. Also, sounds, music and everything outside this site.
This helps you with the models, skins and icons from Hiveworkshop: Resources in use by COT: Plain of Banishment v5.10
You can also upload your map here to generate a list: Asset scanner

Awaiting Update.

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Description Guide - Melee Maps
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Description Guide - Maps
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Map Description Generator [1.2]

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ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

• A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
• A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.
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Details

GENERAL MAPPING
A Beginner's Guide to Map Making
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Various Terraining Tips!
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How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
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Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
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Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

 

[GhostInHail]

Thank you for the review! Sorry it was a long list of authors, but I will certainly update the resource description and add a map quest with credits to all authors. As far as permission from the original author(s), I thought it was a known fact Waugriff, and Stardragon, the subsequent author given permission to modify the map had long abandoned their projects and opened the map for use. Screenshot is included of what gave me the impression years ago that the original CoT was free to modify. Also I do believe enough changes have been made to the resource to be allowed regardless from what I understood in the map submission rules. I will post an update of the map once I have finished adding in the appropriate credits due.
Screenshot Link

 

[deepstrasz]

Alright, @Mayday @Hotwer @legendcrazyman what say you about this version?

 

[Mayday]

Alright, @Mayday @Hotwer @legendcrazyman what say you about this version?

I haven’t played the latest version, but I played it a few months ago on 4.9x I believe;

This version has nothing to do with ours, it is based off the original game, made by waugriff, who is not around to give permission, and has no method of contact.

since I haven’t played the published version I don’t really have much to say about it, I think the concept of the version I played was nice, but the balance could use a little work. The original game was fun, but ended after like 3 hours. This expands on that.

Good luck @GhostInHail

 

[GhostInHail]

Thank you @Mayday ,

I'm glad some people were able to try out the map during the earlier stages. I was never really planning on officially releasing any versions, since I was worried about balancing issues, but v5.10 had some major changes from the last ones and did address the balancing quite a bit (spells, creep locations, reduced amount of creeps as well, item fixes, creep dmg, and some more). Bear in mind, it was my intention to create a very challenging map, in order to deploy more critical thinking and strategy development when approaching the different elements of the map so most of what you see is intended and can be overcome in some manner or another (although admittedly the earlier versions still needed some balancing). I do hope you get a chance to try the new version as well.

It is now solo able, albeit rather slowly and with expected difficulties along the way (and certainly not with every hero, as some heroes may be support, etc.). But as an RPG, it can and will be enjoyed even more with more people.

EDIT: @deepstrasz Resource has been updated to include credits, as well as a few minor changes noted in the Change Log.

 

[fbsonar]

* Do the abilities not scale with the Heroes’ stats? If so, need to update them because otherwise, it makes all these abilities useless

* Pinky and Bryan’s summoning ability doesn’t work (?)

* The terrain doesn’t get updated once I unlock the Plain of Banishment.

* Why did you put mobs and bosses on the bases’ spots? Where people supposed to put their houses and nations?

* Why the items get disappeared once I put them on the ground and even if I put them into the pack horse? How am I supposed to make sets when I cannot free slots temporary for a set’s parts?

I like the idea but the map leaves still has a lot of work to do. Therefore, I cannot give even 4 stars. I sincerely like the map, yet again. 3 stars because I don't want rate it 1-2.

 

[GhostInHail]

* Do the abilities not scale with the Heroes’ stats? If so, need to update them because otherwise, it makes all these abilities useless

* Pinky and Bryan’s summoning ability doesn’t work (?)

* The terrain doesn’t get updated once I unlock the Plain of Banishment.

* Why did you put mobs and bosses on the bases’ spots? Where people supposed to put their houses and nations?

* Why the items get disappeared once I put them on the ground and even if I put them into the pack horse? How am I supposed to make sets when I cannot free slots temporary for a set’s parts?

I like the idea but the map leaves still has a lot of work to do. Therefore, I cannot give even 4 stars. I sincerely like the map, yet again. 3 stars because I don't want rate it 1-2.

1. The abilities that are meant to scale to the higher levels (examples: bonus stats, and a few hero abilities that scale to around level 50) are included. If you have not tried the expansion, or have not loaded into a map and gotten to the expansion before the timer runs out then you would probably not be aware of the items and item crafting that is included. This is what is meant to be used in conjunction with what is available on the heroes (abilities) to fight the unique boss challenges. This map has been soloed on more than one character already, so it is not only possible to do, but has also been balanced/nerfed in many areas for more ease of play. Also, a lot of abilities did not need to scale further to retain their utility, which is why they were left unaltered. Some spells (new and old), such as some damage spells, lose their utility fairly early in the game. This is intended for balance purposes. This is also something you will find on the original map, which is why some of the newer spells were created in the same spirit.

2. Yes, they do. As stated in the map description, I have attempted to keep as much of the original map untouched as possible. These are the same abilities created by Waugriff and featured on the bosses you fight in the original map and have been unaltered. The units seem to have a long spawn-in time, most likely intended by Waugriff so you wouldn't have the extra spawns at the very beginning of the boss fight. (I am a bit surprised you managed to figure out the Omega pillar and utilize some of its heroes, cheers to you , I feel as though this has been an overlooked feature by most ppl. But these heroes have been mostly untouched aside from typos and a couple necessary changes to maintain nostalgic value)

3. The expansion is accessed by using end game items you acquire by killing the last bosses Waugriff created (the goddesses), as well as the Godslayer boss from Waugriffs Cot PoM. The expansion must be accessed within the first 6 minutes of the game aka the timer that you see at the beginning of the game. So, you must get these items, save your character, and load in another game that still has a timer running and make it to the gate in time.

4. The muses at the spawn area are from a mod long ago on CoT that I merged with Stardragon's mods as stated in the map description. A version I cannot seem to find, although I haven't looked too hard. There are 4-5 other mines that are usable right away without having to deal with mobs. Having placed this mod in, also makes it so ppl are more likely to play the game as intended and explore, rather than simply creating a base with many extensions and taking the shop shortcut. Adds more of a challenge.

5. This has always been a feature of CoT. To simplify for Expansion Items, to save frustration from self-exploration, items that have Colored names (the higher tiered items) will disappear when dropped, similarly to the boss items in the original map which was left untouched. Items without colored text from the expansion can be dropped/ traded for ease with the item crafting. It was also necessary to keep many items droppable so that the item crafting was indeed possible. Some math may be required by the user before attempting to get all items for crafting a specific item, as you can only carry 6 items and some items you cannot drop without losing. Keeping this in mind, for solo play, you may want to craft items first that require 5 items, as this will require more inventory space, and then work your way to items with less item requirements. Also being an RPG, it can be a good idea to play with others as well and have them create a specific item while you create a different one to progress faster (utilizing the proper items with the strengths of your hero, examples: int,str, or agi based items, healing items for tanks, or taking advantage of unique item abilities).

*Thank you @fbsonar for trying the map, and I do hope you get a chance to try it to its fullest potential! I do intend to create some guides for the expansion (that will get updated to the map description in the Hive), as I originally left it for the player to explore mostly on their own and figure out. After soloing the map and using some of the new features, it was obvious some of it may be a bit more difficult than people are used to (namely the maze portion of the map), so it was decided that guides would be created. I have yet to create them, as I do have another open project currently, that I have been devoting time to.

Also, a lot of this information is in the map already in the Quests section or the map description here on the website.

 

[fbsonar]

1. The abilities that are meant to scale to the higher levels (examples: bonus stats, and a few hero abilities that scale to around level 50) are included. If you have not tried the expansion, or have not loaded into a map and gotten to the expansion before the timer runs out then you would probably not be aware of the items and item crafting that is included. This is what is meant to be used in conjunction with what is available on the heroes (abilities) to fight the unique boss challenges. This map has been soloed on more than one character already, so it is not only possible to do, but has also been balanced/nerfed in many areas for more ease of play. Also, a lot of abilities did not need to scale further to retain their utility, which is why they were left unaltered. Some spells (new and old), such as some damage spells, lose their utility fairly early in the game. This is intended for balance purposes. This is also something you will find on the original map, which is why some of the newer spells were created in the same spirit.

2. Yes, they do. As stated in the map description, I have attempted to keep as much of the original map untouched as possible. These are the same abilities created by Waugriff and featured on the bosses you fight in the original map and have been unaltered. The units seem to have a long spawn-in time, most likely intended by Waugriff so you wouldn't have the extra spawns at the very beginning of the boss fight. (I am a bit surprised you managed to figure out the Omega pillar and utilize some of its heroes, cheers to you , I feel as though this has been an overlooked feature by most ppl. But these heroes have been mostly untouched aside from typos and a couple necessary changes to maintain nostalgic value)

That's good to hear.

3. The expansion is accessed by using end game items you acquire by killing the last bosses Waugriff created (the goddesses), as well as the Godslayer boss from Waugriffs Cot PoM. The expansion must be accessed within the first 6 minutes of the game aka the timer that you see at the beginning of the game. So, you must get these items, save your character, and load in another game that still has a timer running and make it to the gate in time.

I did exactly as you said. I mean, take a look at minimap.

 

[GhostInHail]

@fbsonar ohhh now I understand what you meant. This is also intentional, to obscure your view in the beginning of the expansion (more of Sargeras' magic). There is actually an item you get from a shop (buying; I'm fairly certain this is where you get it) or from a quest, but the item itself will fix/update your minimap to the actual view. Like I said, I designed a lot of content to be found by the player through the play-through. But this is something that should certainly be included in the guides once created!

Also, I noticed from the screenshot you're playing on an older version of the map. Version 5.10c nerfed some of the units in the screenshot, as well as updated a model from the screenshot, and more you can see from the Change Log. If you like the extra challenge, then by all means continue through, but there are steps you can follow within the Quests section of the map to transfer saved characters from one version to another, so you won't lose any progress, if you decide to get the updated map!

 

[deepstrasz]

Very unpolished: some icons missing/green on F10/game pause, others the same as for other heroes, some passive abilities not having passive looking icons, some abilities not having a proper description with details, ultimates being placed as the first spell in the learn ability menu and so on.

Overall, super old school, 100% core game mechanics, farming simulator.

Approved.

 

[Blasterixx]

I like the feeling of unpolished maps like this one, makes them feel more real and interesting to play, but what the hell dude:

1. How is this an RPG map with save and load when the stats don't save nor the gold and wood, only the items seem to save... well that sucks, this makes no sense.

2. Some items vanish when you drop them so that's super annoying... (took me 10 minutes to kill Hydra just so the quest item to vanish when I dropped it from the horse on the ground)

3. The save code doesn't save in the folder, since we are in the current year it cannot be possible for a save/load map not to have a save file in the folder, is quite embarrassing.

because of those 3 main problems, the map has no future, especially when there is already a Cot orpg map that has been worked on and evolved over the years by Mayday and other devs.

 

[Mayday]

because of those 3 main problems, the map has no future, especially when there is already a Cot orpg map that has been worked on and evolved over the years by Mayday and other devs.

I think it's fun to play actually, it is not really similar to my map at all, it's very close to the original concept. I haven't gotten to the external zone yet, but I just defeated the gods.

It would be great to see a new save system with folder / codeless features, as the current save system is not great due to having to type out codes like it's 04 again, and also, half the time I attempt to load, it fails, so I have been saving 2-3 times per game so I don't end up losing progress.


Some QoL to add/bugs to fix:
1. Add a stat cap that saves, or remove stat tomes for clarity. Tomes cost way too much to just be a one-time buff.
2. Omega tier is a cool concept, the farm implementation isn't; it would be nice if you just click the farm depending on the amount of charges you have and it auto-repicks for you with the selection of omega heroes, or something to that effect. I got a farm drop and used it, but didn't use it in the designated space (i guess?) so it just got removed when i -repick'ed.
3. You should allow infinite repicks, having to remake 1000 times to see what hero you like is abysmal gameplay.
4. I understand nothing from this game had a well written tooltip; but it would be great to see at least the end game items in the normal zone have updated ones, and heroes from all the taverns should list some details about themselves, especially if you do not allow for infinite repicks. An example of this could be "hero X has ability 1,2,3,4 and hero X is a strength based melee tank".
5. Most heroes are not good, most abilities do not scale, there is a only a few heroes that have the passive abilities made well for scaling, evasion/drunken brawler/bash(stun), critical strike, etc. It would be nice if each hero had one stat scaling ability so they don't all feel like they fall off so hard.
6. Quests in f9 need a little more detail on completion, they feel like a puzzle, for no good reason, for instance it says return to town with savior sword to receive reward, yet the blacksmith isn't even in town; i also have no idea where to go for the armor turn in.
7. Some items don't show any details on how good they can be, such as the "plain ring" which gives like a 2000% trueshot aura damage boost, i don't know how to beat the game without it, and only figured out it gives the damage boost by seeing it on the paladin which gave an additional 4,000 damage to a nearby creep. Perhaps it's a secret op item, but you can just buy it in the mid shop for not that much gold, so it should really also work on melee heroes as well, even though some options like meta ult or book of pig gods can enable it for you
8. The bases concept is fine, but really, it is not fun to set up 300 food of wisps all around the map, please consider condensing them by giving them a much higher food cost, or lower the food cap and buff the lumber they get.
9. Please consider removing some mechanics like perma-stun bash, and divine shield from some bosses, it's just not fun to deal with.
10. The gods portal allows you to skip the omni golems and mountain king, going directly into the gods room. The gods are much easier to defeat than the golems/mk, they have some sort of fountain aura that heals them at a very high rate.
11. Some form of a backpack would be great, I'm sure there's a few systems available to import on hive. Even if it's just something that auto follows you to hold items, because the disappearing items is not fun to experience, and some duplicate boss drops you may have can sell for a lot of gold.
12. Some heroes require more items than others, such as boots of speed, book of pig gods (to turn ranged to receive op trueshot aura buff), etc, it would be nice if all heroes had the same item slot concerns, and didn't have to deal with missing out on other items.
13. Please update the shops that convert gold to wood, and tomes, to have a significantly faster stock maximum, and replenish much quicker. Really, it should allow for the player to convert and spend as they wish, not limited by a timer.

If you address some of these, the game would not be as frustrating to deal with. I think the game is a fun couple of hours to play around in, and doesn't really go for the same linear progression most other RPG's do. I am looking forward to seeing your new content in the post-gods zone.

 

[GhostInHail]

It would be great to see a new save system with folder / codeless features, as the current save system is not great due to having to type out codes like it's 04 again, and also, half the time I attempt to load, it fails, so I have been saving 2-3 times per game so I don't end up losing progress.

Sorry. I did try to implement a codeless save system by TriggerHappy first, but to no avail. I'm sure it was my lack of GUI trigger knowledge at the time or my complete lack of knowledge in Jass and coding. So, I dug around to some very old save system tutorials and made one based off those.

Also thank you for your fair review of the map and improvement suggestions! Some of which could certainly be added, although I'm a bit hesitant to alter the map further due to 1. self-obfuscation and 2. my inability to update the loading screen due to the fact I no longer have access to Photoshop (so worst case you might see an updated "v5.10f" or something of the likes). Also, some things mentioned such as the infinite repicks, may not be possible. I currently don't have the knowledge to alter the already existing triggers that are in Jass or whatever code they are in. There is another known bug which I have gotten some test results to work around, but I am unable to solve the issue due to it originating in the written code triggers (thankfully it is largely unnoticeable and has a workaround in game).

2. Omega tier is a cool concept, the farm implementation isn't; it would be nice if you just click the farm depending on the amount of charges you have and it auto-repicks for you with the selection of omega heroes, or something to that effect. I got a farm drop and used it, but didn't use it in the designated space (i guess?) so it just got removed when i -repick'ed.

I'm sorry that happened. I tried to be clear in the Quests section as far as instructions for using the farms properly. Although, I do agree with you that the entire Quests section could be A LOT more organized and re-written for ease of use to the player.

Also, that is a good idea to steer away from the farms entirely. I didn't think to just deactivate the selections in the Omega Tier and then activate them when you repick with a farm. This should be relatively easy to accomplish in GUI, although, with proper use the way it is could potentially be better. Forcing you to drop also allows you to share with other players. And sharing is caring.

The farms are meant to be dropped in the spawn area where all the tiers are (you will need to teleport in, there are a couple items that can aid with that. One being bought in town). You then -repick into a wisp, pick up the farm(s) WITH your wisp, build them and then pick from the Omega Tier. Obviously due to the limitations on the repicks, you would need to acquire the farm(s) without using any repicks or save once you get them if you have already used your repicks. Also, after picking your Omega Tier hero, it is suggested you save and reload the map for a fresh gameplay.
*You can also save the farms on your original hero as to avoid losing them if you'd like to try different ones using the same farms.

5. Most heroes are not good, most abilities do not scale, there is a only a few heroes that have the passive abilities made well for scaling, evasion/drunken brawler/bash(stun), critical strike, etc. It would be nice if each hero had one stat scaling ability so they don't all feel like they fall off so hard.

This is somewhat true. Even in the original map, there are some heroes that are absolutely terrible and useless imo. I tried my very best to stick to all original concepts and create the heroes in the same manner. Some of the new heroes are trash, some are mediocre, some are purely support, some are good, and some are, may I say, OP in comparison. I actually like this implementation, as it can create a further sense of accomplishment bringing a hero like the Armored Idiot up against the Gods or Sargeras and miraculously winning (maybe with the help of a teammate).
*Note: All Heroes do have the bonus attributes which will scale all the way to your hero's max level of 200 (the latter levels being more and more effective). This alone, for those somewhat useless heroes, will tip the scale back in your favor and allow your hero to contend with some of the end-game content with the help of some items (some items in this game will allow ANY hero to kill ANY boss).

7. Some items don't show any details on how good they can be, such as the "plain ring" which gives like a 2000% trueshot aura damage boost, i don't know how to beat the game without it, and only figured out it gives the damage boost by seeing it on the paladin which gave an additional 4,000 damage to a nearby creep. Perhaps it's a secret op item, but you can just buy it in the mid shop for not that much gold, so it should really also work on melee heroes as well, even though some options like meta ult or book of pig gods can enable it for you

I have been putting off creating some Guides, but item descriptions (especially those of the expansion) would be necessary to include for this reason. I like the idea of self-exploration and finding out what the item does on your own, so I would most likely not update the map with the item descriptions, but rather leave it to the guides only.

There are some items that have been added in the original portion of the map that will help MOST heroes kill the Gods (plain ring is a nice little secret Waugriff put in and I left). There is also the Murloc Scale Armor, the Warglaives from Illidan, the Book of Pigs, the Orb of Da, and some strong stat based items from other bosses.
It really depends on the combination of what hero you pick, what stats they have, and what abilities are already available.
*Not all heroes can be used to solo the game, unless you have first beaten the game on a better hero and dropped high tier droppable items for your not so good hero to use as a handicap (ex: those trash heroes and support heroes).

Spoiler

**The Godslayer will drop Frostmourne if defeated by a cleansed Ashbringer.

10. The gods portal allows you to skip the omni golems and mountain king, going directly into the gods room. The gods are much easier to defeat than the golems/mk, they have some sort of fountain aura that heals them at a very high rate.

The original map has always allowed the player to skip directly to the Gods, and seeing as though Waugriff left the Mountain King boss almost unkillable (aside from using a developed technique from back in the day) I decided to not only nerf the fountain ability significantly but leave the portal as-is. I know progression-wise it doesn't seem to make much sense linearly, but the Mountain King is somewhat optional and best if attempted after killing the Gods and Godslayer first.

I think the game is a fun couple of hours to play around in, and doesn't really go for the same linear progression most other RPG's do. I am looking forward to seeing your new content in the post-gods zone.

I'm glad you're enjoying it thus far and hope some of this information helps. The game was designed so it could be enjoyed by simply playing the original portion with more variety and extra twists, but the new content in the expansion will add far more than a few hours of gameplay.


Edit: Also, the armor quest turn in is with Arthas on the bottom right of town. He is used for other quests as well once you get into the new content. (I might've removed the armor quest reward for balance purposes, so it may do nothing, although I think I added it back for the item crafting. It would allow you to carry more Savior's Armors).