Melee Mapping Contest #3 - 4 vs 4

[Mr.Henci]

MELEE MAPPING CONTEST #3

Create a 4v4 melee map that excels in balance, terrain, dynamic, and creativity, while beeing suitable for the Warcraft III Reforged.

• No submission may violate any of the site rules.
• If a submission does not follow the map submission rules the creator will be disqualified.
• All submissions must follow the current theme. If any submission does not fit, a moderator will tell you as soon as possible as to avoid confusion.
  • You must submit your entry before the deadline. To submit your final entry, you must upload the entry's contents as a bundle in the Maps Section, and link to that bundle in this thread confirming the submission.
  • Several screenshots of terrain and gameplay.
  • The file in the appropriate format.
• You must show at least one unfinished preview of your submission, before the deadline, as proof that it’s yours.
  
• Your submission may not be started/made before the official launch of the contest.
• Judges may not participate.
• Your final submission must be bug free.
• Teamwork is not allowed.
  • Finding testers to help you with your submission is not considered teamwork.
• No custom imports are allowed.
• Triggers are not allowed.
• Only one entry per contestant.
• For melee maps, any gameplay altering data may not be changed. (No custom units/spells/buffs. Destructibles/objects may be changed, however we would highly apreciate, if you woulnd't do so.)

Breaking any of these rules may lead to punishment in the judgement score, up to disqualification from the contest, depending on the weight of the issue. In case of doubts towards a certain rule you are very encouraged to discuss it in the contest thread so others and judges may help with sorting it out.

• 1st place: 30 reputation points
• 2nd place: 20 reputation points
• 3rd place: 10 reputation points
• Judges: 5 rep

The three winning entries will receive an award icon, representing the winning entry.

• @WTii
• @W3Sour
• ----------

Balance	Is the map balanced for both teams? Are the positions and distance between points of interest fair? Does the map allow the 4 races to be balanced? Consider balance when implementing the pathing, resources, creep camps, and item drops.	50/100
Terrain	Is the map visually pleasing in mediums of terrain, doodad placement, and overall theme? Is the map repetitive? Is the aesthetic well designed but not overly obstructive?	35/100
Creativity & Uniqueness	Does the map bring something new or creative to the table?	15/100
Bugs	Scores may be brought down if there are bug-like issues such as faulty pathing, unusable resources, etc	-

• 80% of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
• 20% of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

• The contest shall begin on December 1st and conclude on January 13th, 23:59 GMT

Assigned Moderator: @Naze

 

[Mr.Henci]

Please post if you plan to participate! You may start working on the map any time between the start date (December 1st) and the finish date (January 12th). There is no penalty for those who join late.

Participant	WIP	Final Entry
1. @Knecht	WIP	Legion's Demise
2. @mafe	WIP	Northern Felwood
3. @JaleVeliki	WIP	Nerubian Passage
4. @Mr.Henci	WIP	----------
5. @Rockstar356	WIP	Cold Butterfly
6. @Ragnaros17	WIP	Frostfloe Deep
7. @Khaldaiel	WIP	Scar of Northrend
8. @fostaa	WIP	Burning Steppes
9. @Ascrelle	WIP	Treacherous Waters
10. @Thanesh675	----------	----------
11. @JSRGN	----------	----------
12. @mmtt	WIP	Frozen Peak
13. @Loner-Magixxar	WIP	Arctic Dream
14. @Twilight	----------	----------
15. @DED1	----------	----------
16. @sentrywiz	WIP	Underground Fortress (8)
17. @XanderD	WIP	Golden Oases
18. @DuckDuckGoose	WIP	Taken City
19. @Restor	WIP	Desert Mirage
20. @Arrr	WIP	Northmarsh Ruin v1.1

WAITING LIST
Participant	WIP	Final Entry
1. @Aggiba	----------	----------
2. ----------	----------	----------
3. ----------	----------	----------
4. ----------	----------	----------
5. ----------	----------	----------

DISCLAIMER:
Number of participants is limited (20 for now), thus if you decide to drop the contest, PLEASE make sure to state it so I can remove your name off the list.

Recommended Resources:
Hive - How To Create Melee Maps
Hive - Competitive Melee Map (Balancing Melee Maps)
Hive - Terraining Guide Megathread
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
The Helper - Professional Melee Mapping Guide
r/wc3 - What Goes Into Making A Good 1v1 Melee Map?

 

[IcemanBo]

I'm wondering what "suitable for reforged" does exactly mean.

 

[Knecht]

Here we go again, hopefully I'll be able to make it in time.

I'm wondering what "suitable for reforged" does exactly mean.

I'd say it means no imports, blizz assets only.

 

[mafe]

Thank you for creating this contest!

I will spread the word about it again, but I'm not sure if should wait for 1-2 days, so that the contest doesnt get lost while the new patch and the ongoing WGL are dominating the discussion in the melee scene.


I would also like to register as a participant.

 

[JaleVeliki]

Here we go again! Count me in as a participant

 

[Heinvers]

Make your best guys

Do you want a site Notice for the contest? If so please PM me.

 

[Naze]

Contest seems to be all ready. Also, 4v4 is gonna be interesting. Looking forward for the entries!

Thread moved.

 

[Mr.Henci]

I'm wondering what "suitable for reforged" does exactly mean.

Mainly no imports since from what we know, all maps might get ported to the Reforged looks as long as they are using vanilla only assets. Also, Is this map melee modfier should be Yes, which is optional, since different language versions of W3 register the map differently.

I will spread the word about it again, but I'm not sure if should wait for 1-2 days, so that the contest doesnt get lost while the new patch and the ongoing WGL are dominating the discussion in the melee scene.

Waiting few days sounds like a good idea.

 

[Rockstar356]

Count with me please I want to participate

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Mr.Henci

I want to participate in the 4v4 (3rd) melee contest. Please add me to the list. Thanks in advance.

Here is my WIP 1.

Map name: Frostfloe Deep.

Frostfloe Deep is a large cave in the Storm Peaks Region.
Frostfloe Deep

Players distribution: 4 above, 4 below.
Playable size: 146x130.
Tileset: Underground with 2 Northrend buildable tiles.
Neutrals: 4 Lordaeron Summer mercenary camps, 6 Goblin Markets, 4 Goblin Labs, 2 Taverns, 2 Waygates, 9 expanding goldmines.
Melee map yes: all presets.

WIP 1

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/8-frostfloe-deep-wip-1-w3x.310935/

Good luck to everybody.

 

[Khaldaiel]

I have always been willing to do this count me in please !

 

[Mr.Henci]

Count with me please I want to participate

I have always been willing to do this count me in please !

Glad to see you here guys.

I want to participate in the 4v4

Welcome back bud, nice to see you joining.

 

[Heinvers]

A Notice has been added! Good luck and keep the Arena going :]

 

[fostaa]

Not really the best rules but I think I could give it a hard try.

 

[Mr.Henci]

Not really the best rules but I think I could give it a hard try.

They can still be adjusted if needed, what's the problem?

 

[fostaa]

They can still be adjusted if needed, what's the problem?

I guess it's a major problem for many people especially in some sort of advertising stuff but I personally do not like the "No custom imports" rule.

Also, I have a question - "game altering data" - you mean that people can't change anything in the Game constants?

Cheers.

 

[Heinvers]

Summoning @redscores @deepstrasz @Zwiebelchen @APproject @Tickles (where are you?)

 

[mafe]

I guess it's a major problem for many people especially in some sort of advertising stuff but I personally do not like the "No custom imports" rule.

Also, I have a question - "game altering data" - you mean that people can't change anything in the Game constants?

Cheers.

Hey, I was one of the people who lobbying in favor of "no custom imports". The intention was to make more maps easily portable for reforged (which blizzard said might not be possible with custom imports) and eligible for battlenet ladder (where blizzard will apparently not accept custom imports, no matter if we as mapping community like it or not).
The contest was discussed in advance here: Next Melee Mapping Contest: Pre-Contest discussion so you can read through the different opinions. As you might have guessed, I would be rather unhappy to relax this rule now, as this would go against what my hopes for this contest are.

Regarding game altering data, well, ladder maps have to go with the gameplay constants as blizzard defines them. However, nothing is preventing you from submmitting an unmodified map for the contest and then changing the gameplay constants as you like and then uploading this modified version in addition to the database.

 

[Mr.Henci]

Also, I have a question - "game altering data" - you mean that people can't change anything in the Game constants?

Units/Spell/Buffs can't be altered. Destructibles/Object may be altered, but since we don't know, how porting to W3 Reforged will work, we advise to not change a single thing in object editor.

I guess it's a major problem for many people especially in some sort of advertising stuff but I personally do not like the "No custom imports" rule.

We had contest allowing imports few weeks ago. The next one will allow them probably too. This one is focused on W3 Reforged thus only W3 vanilla is used. (After Reforged reskin, old imports won't look good in new graphics.)

 

[fostaa]

Hey, I was one of the people who lobbying in favor of "no custom imports". The intention was to make more maps easily portable for reforged (which blizzard said might not be possible with custom imports) and eligible for battlenet ladder (where blizzard will apparently not accept custom imports, no matter if we as mapping community like it or not).
The contest was discussed in advance here: Next Melee Mapping Contest: Pre-Contest discussion so you can read through the different opinions. As you might have guessed, I would be rather unhappy to relax this rule now, as this would go against what my hopes for this contest are.

Regarding game altering data, well, ladder maps have to go with the gameplay constants as blizzard defines them. However, nothing is preventing you from submmitting an unmodified map for the contest and then changing the gameplay constants as you like and then uploading this modified version in addition to the database.

I understand, thank you. I will gladly join.

Good idea for this contest by the way.


Cheers.

 

[W3Sour]

good luck to all... the 4v4 map pool really needs a good boost of new community maps

looking forward to see what you guys can come up with

 

[Ascrelle]

I'd like to participate!

EDIT: A point for discussion. Since the latest patch tried to fix a lot of map hosting issues, it would be a lot easier to get a lot of these maps tested in teams. Would others be interested in testing the maps?

 

[fostaa]

I have another question - I just started a map a few days ago and I would like to use exactly this map for the contest. I started like 5 days ago and I am still working on it. Would it count? What is the idea of the map to be started after the announce of this contest? The idea is to contribute to the maps for Blizzard's release so I don't really find it too important of a rule? Any other points of view? Suggestions?

 

[mafe]

I'd like to participate!

EDIT: A point for discussion. Since the latest patch tried to fix a lot of map hosting issues, it would be a lot easier to get a lot of these maps tested in teams. Would others be interested in testing the maps?

I definitely would like to participate, provided I find the time.

I have another question - I just started a map a few days ago and I would like to use exactly this map for the contest. I started like 5 days ago and I am still working on it. Would it count? What is the idea of the map to be started after the announce of this contest? The idea is to contribute to the maps for Blizzard's release so I don't really find it too important of a rule? Any other points of view? Suggestions?

This was also talked about in the precontest discussion, and apparently this is a standard rule for hiveworkshops contests. I'm not a fan of it either though. However I understand the ideas behind it (original submissions, participants having equal amounts of time, for example), yet I still believe it was intended for different situations and not so much your case.

 

[Mr.Henci]

@fostaa don't get me wrong, but you are here for 12 hours, yet you want to change every rule and change the whole contest for your needs. The rule clearly says:
"Your submission may not be started/made before the official launch of the contest."
And to be honest I don't see a reason, why you should have advantage over others with an who knows how old map. Map section on Hive is a place to go, if you have map in works and want to publish it, but for this contest, you should create a new map. Of course, we can't know how old your entry is and we must rely that every contestant is honest, so I hope there won't be any troubles.

@mafe while I understand you standpoint, if we allow a map stared 1 week before startdate, someone might want 2 weeks pre-startdate map to be allowed and so on . . . While the main goal is to bring a higher quality 4v4 maps, it is still a Hive contest and we should stick to the main Hive rules in this regard. Map section is full of great melee maps and Blizzard showed, that they are interested in them even without the publicity of the contest. (Northren Isles map by @Filmting is a good example)

 

[fostaa]

I am trying to see if I can simply use my map on which I worked much. I am not really trying to change anything - it's not me who would decide after all.
And as you can see I am absolutely honest and that is why I want to check what is OK and what not...

A matter of fact I am very happy that a contest just appears while I am working on my map and a good opportunity for me. That's all.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[WolfFarkas]

I have another question - I just started a map a few days ago and I would like to use exactly this map for the contest. I started like 5 days ago and I am still working on it. Would it count? What is the idea of the map to be started after the announce of this contest? The idea is to contribute to the maps for Blizzard's release so I don't really find it too important of a rule? Any other points of view? Suggestions?

I strongly sugest to start a new map:

Mostly to follow the rule, but there are other reasons that will benefit you:

I can tell you that it will be much better if you start from 0, ( many mistakes are made with the neutral buildings positions and size of the map).

1) Think the size of the map.
2) Think the positions of the neutrals buildings (do many tests).

Consider it an oportunity to have a fresh new start and avoid mistakes (almost all maps have mistakes, when you don´t map for contest and just for fun, it has tons of mistakes).

Neutral buildings positions define the game, so I would sugest to think a lot and try to do the best of the best,
I can tell that if you start from 0 and think well everything (specially the neutrals buildings positions), this new map will be much better.

In my case I spent saturday thinking the neutral buildings positions, and after (hours of puting the neutrals buildings) I started to terrain some parts.

The other map keep it in stand by, and map it later after the contest, in that way, in the future you will end having two 8 player maps!!!, the old one and the new one for the contest,

I also sugest you to read the reviews of the judges of the second melee contest so you won´t make those mistakes.
(In my case I screw it mostly with the easy expandings, base shape and goblin markets creeps)

good luck

 

[redscores]

@Heinvers how can I help?

 

[Heinvers]

By participating and more of you guys :]

 

[redscores]

By participating and more of you guys :]

I am not really a melee mapmaker guy :O sorreh. Also I am working on a project.

 

[WolfFarkas]

By participating and more of you guys :]

Limit is 20 and we are already at the half (9) and @mafe will spread the word he is just waiting time until updates news pass,
is a matter of time that more people will join (specially when many wips are uploaded and users will say mmm 150x150 it can be done by mirrowing terrain),
I can predict that a lot more will join next weekend.
Since there is time till 12 Jan, is high probable that a couple of users will join a bit late.

I hope that this contest won´t reach the point of a lot of participants: with a waiting list (of users waiting drops) like in the first melee contest.

 

[mmtt]

Can i remove collision from doodads and change their size?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Summoning @redscores @deepstrasz [B]@Zwiebelchen[/B] @APproject @Tickles (where are you?)

Why was I summoned? I don't have any experience with melee maps and know nothing about ladder games, including balance and how to pro. :/

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

Hey guys! I had a question. Are we allowed to have scripts in our map?

 

[WolfFarkas]

Can i remove collision from doodads and change their size?

@Mr.Henci will respond you with more acuracy than me.

"For melee maps, any gameplay altering data may not be changed."

The main reason of this contest is to produce 4v4 melee maps, so maybe of 20 maps one or two may worth to reach ladder, and maybe Blizzard Ladder before Reforged launch.
So to reach Blizzard is a no, don´t change anything. Because it must say melee map:yes and when you change a single doodad it isn´t a "melee map"
the white cog turns into golden (of custom).

Since this is a melee contest balance is much more important than beauty.

Hey guys! I had a question. Are we allowed to have scripts in our map?

"Triggers are not allowed."

Define Scripts??

 

[mafe]

Limit is 20 and we are already at the half (9) and @mafe will spread the word he is just waiting time until updates news pass,
is a matter of time that more people will join (specially when many wips are uploaded and users will say mmm 150x150 it can be done by mirrowing terrain),
I can predict that a lot more will join next weekend.
Since there is time till 12 Jan, is high probable that a couple of users will join a bit late.

I hope that this contest won´t reach the point of a lot of participants: with a waiting list (of users waiting drops) like in the first melee contest.

Welcome back!
I've now linked the contest in various discords and also in reddit. I wonder if should also go to the official blizzard reforged forum, or if this would be counterproductive because of the latent toxicty over there (which is why rarely ever bother to post there). What are your opinions?
Also I didnt mention that people will have to register here, I hope this will not cause any misunderstandings.

Can i remove collision from doodads and change their size?

That is probably some borderline issue.

 

[Knecht]

Can i remove collision from doodads and change their size?

That is probably some borderline issue.

It was ok in the last contests and I don't see an issue with it. It really depends if the creator of the map tries to get their map into the blizz ladder- in which case he wouldn't alter any data. However HWS's melee category has been less strict with this issue imo.
Btw I guess it will work just as fine in reforged if you use a blizz model as Reforged seems more like a model swap.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Welcome back!
I've now linked the contest in various discords and also in reddit. I wonder if should also go to the official blizzard reforged forum, or if this would be counterproductive because of the latent toxicty over there (which is why rarely ever bother to post there). What are your opinions?
Also I didnt mention that people will have to register here, I hope this will not cause any misunderstandings.

That is probably some borderline issue.

"...of the latent toxicty..."

is that bad?

...."What are your opinions?"

I say yes to spread the word and Hiveworkshop promotion. As long as the new users stick to the rules, I have nothing against.

"Also I didnt mention that people will have to register here, I hope this will not cause any misunderstandings."

When they read the rules of the frontpage and see they need to post here to join and that they can´t post without joining and that registered users can post,
they will figure it out, so I think don´t worry.

Sugestion, there is plenty of time, if you think it could be "counterproductive", maybe is a bit soon "to beg more participants", I sugest wait till the end of the next weekend, I think more Hiveworkshop users will join there (WIPs and explain things such as size will motivate others).

 

[Karano]

Hey there! I'm interested in joining!

 

[fostaa]

Another question: it says "4v4" - does that mean "free-for-all" 8 players map or two teams of 4 players each? This may be a key thing to the whole idea..

And can we swap tiles? Is that counted as customization?

 

[WolfFarkas]

Another question: it says "4v4" - does that mean "free-for-all" 8 players map or two teams of 4 players each? This may be a key thing to the whole idea..

And can we swap tiles? Is that counted as customization?

4v4 and 8 FFA are two different things.

If you do a 8 player FFA (like the 8 side poligon) it can be played also for 4v4

But a 4v4 not necesary can be played as FFA

As example my map, it can be played for 4v4, team battles, but not to FFA because players are very near. But thats the idea I want some sort of coperative creeping.

Melee Mapping contest #3 - 4 vs 4

About tiles, changing them doesn´t alter the melee map yes stuff.
In my case, I am doing an underground map (wich has only 1 buildable tile, thats why I added 2 Northrend buildable tiles).

 

[Mr.Henci]

Another question: it says "4v4" - does that mean "free-for-all" 8 players map or two teams of 4 players each? This may be a key thing to the whole idea..

This contest is about 4v4 ladder, thus no need to balance it for FFA.

And can we swap tiles? Is that counted as customization?

Swaping tiles isn't considered customization, because editor doesn't consider it as such.

@Thanesh675 Welcoma aboard. @mmtt @Loner-Magixxar are you guys interested in joining or not? I'm not sure if I shold add you or not.

Hey guys! I had a question. Are we allowed to have scripts in our map?

No. (You can upload a 2nd version of your map with scripts, but for this contest, no triggers nor scripts allowed.

Can i remove collision from doodads and change their size?

If you want your map to be even considered by Blizzard, it cannot have anything changed and I mean anything. While I'm not a biggest fan, I would allow it, but you have to take into consideration possible point loss by doing so. (In this contest, we are trying to produce as many high quallity 4v4 melee maps as possible, giving them enought spotlight might bring Blizzard attention.)

I hope that this contest won´t reach the point of a lot of participants: with a waiting list (of users waiting drops) like in the first melee contest.

Let's hope that we can fill at least those 20 seats. More maps = More to choose from

...I wonder if should also go to the official blizzard reforged forum,...

I don't know, let's wait and see how many people we can get, if there will be free spots after 2 weeks, then we might turn on Blizz forums.

 

[JSRGN]

Hi, sign me up.

 

[mmtt]

Ok i started working on it you can sign me in.

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

Is using a custom tileset a problem?

OK, sorry. My question has been already addressed.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Is using a custom tileset a problem?

OK, sorry. My question has been already addressed.

That depends of the definition of custom tiles

if custom tiles is: using wc3 tiles but mixing them, like mix northrend with ashenvale, is ok

but custom tiles that requires imports is a no,
"No custom imports are allowed."

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

using wc3 tiles but mixing them, like mix northrend with ashenvale, is ok

I exactly meant that, thanks.

And one last question; Changing the height of props won't create any problems, right?

 

[deepstrasz]

And one last question; Changing the height of props won't create any problems, right?

Any modifications to the Object Data tables will render the map not melee.

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

Any modifications to the Object Data tables will render the map not melee.

I mean picking a prop (for example a rock) and using Ctrl + Page Up/Down to adjust its hight (not changing the object from the editor).