mafe

Orange is the guy who had a youtube review for the map contest? In any case, most ladder maps have no cliffs at all, or only very few. But I think your map is really very experimental so I'm not sure if the normal "rules" really apply.

Yes that one. I re-watched studied his points. Also I saw a match of him being NE against orcs, and he won. In a moment he said that he didn´t like 1 cliff level. I think he said it in the first video with the first maps. He said he liked some more levels to cut vision. He said if I put a farm here and here and I can predict all enemy movments.

Thawing Snow had many cliff and won

I don´t want to bother you, the maps are already reviewed, but if you have time / wish to, I would be silly in saying no. Your knoledge is invaluable.

Hello again, hope I don´t bother you with this request. My map the mines of Undar was already reviewed so never mind it. But if you can review Apojii Islands, that would be great. I would like to hear your opinion with that map, if you have the time to do it. See ya.

thanks for the review mate!, most usefull

Hey thanks for sharing. I was on holiday so I didnt see this unitl now.

Signature..... I've been editing my "current project" the entire time

Sorry about wasting your time. Now it works of course.

I guess to further improve the guide, I'll need more time. But yes, I'll try to do what you suggested.

I'm glad it's solved.

Use pastebin to test things like these beforehand:
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/pastebin/create

I mean the hidden stuff should be in a table not the table in a hidden thing because the background will result in the same as with spoiler tags.

Hey thanks I'll have a look at it.

I guess you have the neutral-naga units from the tft campaign in mind, or what other units?
I believe that these and other "normal" player-controlled units tend to have (much) better stats than other creeps. For example the naga myrmidon is a lvl 4 unit (in terms of experience given when killed) with 1080 hp, 2 armor and about 18 dps (if I calculated correctly) and ensnare ability. A comparable normal lvl 4 creep is the centaur outrunner with 550 hp, 2 armor, 15 dps and no abilities. Maybe this is just an extreme example, but the issue might be that using these creeps takes much longer and you take more damage. I think one would have to look at each unit on its own, to find out if they are ok or if you need to be careful.

Of course, you can also tamper with the unit stats (though this would make the map altered melee), or for example make the itemdrops stronger to mitigate the slower/more dangerous exp gain.

I see, thanks a lot. I was considering changing the stats of the unit/ changing visuals of the "normal" melee creeps but as you mentioned, it would make the map altered melee. Seems I will have to be creative and utilize Sunken ruins creep.

Once again, thank you for your time and perfect explanation.

still in terms of space a 480x480 would be madness, also I think 24 player will have lag

also I started a 6 one, and I aim for FFA with high quality balance

The 24 player lag is only for certain players :
"Why people these days play on potato computer" (a random quote from someone on one of my PTR game)

Yes this is correct. Does it matter if I use destructable ice blocks or destructable rocks? I just thought it might be good for visual variety.

As long as it does not interfere with game balance, i.e. the eastern player getting faster to the mine than the western one, no biggie.

I dont think it does. Both players would have to destroy 5+ doodads anyway to open a path for medium sized armies under realisitic circumstances.

I just have too much time at the moment...

It is a difficult topic which I cannot explain to full detail without writing hundreds of words. Let me just say the following: Look at any competitive 1v1 map and you will see that expansions typically satisfy the following criteria:
-There is an expansion that is clearly closer to player A than to player B, and vice versa.
-The creeps are lvl 17 total maximum, often lower (but only rarely a green spot).
-The expansion can be reached with sufficient militia time left so that you can expect to creep the mine even in the face of minor harass.

As always, these criteria are somewhat flexible and in fact the it would be good to have somewhat different situations on different maps. But I would expect that if you make one factor so that it makes expanding more difficult, then you add something else to slighlty help expanding. On your map however, I believe you add several things that discourage expanding and there is nothing to balance it.

"On your map however, I believe you add several things that discourage expanding and there is nothing to balance it."
so this is a good thing right?
(note: yeah this is the first time I did a map with 1 expading per user and I don´t like it XD, but I saw things, maps with no expanding ahh!)

Unfortunately no. I meant to say that "in relation to standard maps (i.e. maps like TM, EI etc which have proven to be balanced), expanding is harder on your map for several reasons". Now if you make expanding harder than usual, it changes balance in favor of races who tend to play without expansion.

I'm not completely sure. The snarecaster, turtle and snaper should be ok, but the snarecaster has entangling roots. If he would be available during the t1 stage, he would break the game; but he isnt available until the second ingame day begins. So it might work out fine.

On the other hand, w3arena currently has two sunken ruins maps in the 1v1 mappool and both use Lordaeon summer camps nevertheless.

so orange or red creep? or maybe a level 19 still orange, but a hard one

I would probably go with lvl 17-20 camp. I'll have a look at your map and write some feedback in the thread.

Yes I think there should be critters on melee map. They are useful for undeads because, as you said, they can be turned into skeletons. As it is a stable feature on most melee maps, it is a (small) factor that contributes to balance. If a map doesnt have critters, this could mean that undead is in a slightly worse position than usual.

Critters are especially important if you have creep spots which dont leave any corpses when killed, such as spots with only skeletons, golems, air creeps, treants, banshees etc.

You've got mail!

I did so a few weeks ago:D
Btw, is there any reason why you dont participate in the contest?

This might be one :D
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/frost-soul.274962/

I don't have the necessary experience in melee map making. Basically, that's the second or so map of that type I've made and I don't usually like going by the rules :D

But this one is made by a friend of mine and is quite nifty, but still Substandard :D
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/skeletal-coast-v1-3.273861/