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Melee Mapping Contest #3 - 4 vs 4

Discussion in 'Contest Archive' started by Mr.Henci, Dec 1, 2018.

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  1. Thanks :) will try to widen the paths.

    Btw, I've made some alterations. Once I have a solid prototype I will upload it for testing if you want.
     
  2. Rockstar356

    Rockstar356

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    Hello again
    here is my wip number 2
    added some cliffs, still many things can change :)
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Knecht

    Knecht

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    Friendly reminder that the ESL Mapping Contest Cup is running right now. Several people are streaming it on twitch.
     
  4. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    The Mapping ESL Contest is still on guys!
     
  5. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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  6. Untitled.jpg

    Here is my second WIP. Continued where I left off, added another player on the map.

    Added multiple pathways around the river part of the map.

    Added a high ground, unaccessible without flying transport units, which you buy from the central bridged area.

    FUTURE WORK
    Gonna continue, need to add 2 more players to the map on the left side.
     
  7. Abovegame

    Abovegame

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    Ooooo! I maybe join this. Not 100% sure i will have the time. I'll keep you posted guys.
     
  8. mafe

    mafe

    Map Reviewer

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    It may be a little late into the contest, but from the playtesting this weekend, I can only I recommend that you keep the following things into consideration:
    -Make paths wide enough so that 4 armies can move around together without obstructing each other due to choke points or narrow paths, at least for majority of the map.
    -Make bases sufficiently large so that buildings can be placed without nearly walling yourself in. In 4v4, players will often tp to their allies bases to help defend them, and they should be able to land in places where they wont be trapped for most of the fight.
    -You might think differently, but earlygame aggression is a legitimate strategy. If you cant rush the enemy team with a few units before their expansions or t2 techs are half completed, it just takes away options and decisions from players, and therefore imho makes the game less fun in the long run.
     
  9. Thanks for your feedback. I will try to keep what you said in mind. However there are couple of problems by design:

    - The map, even though 4v4 I've decided to make it hard for teams to help each other out in the early game. If you see the WIP above, you will see a river separating two. On each side there will be two opposing players (so it becomes a 2v2 or 1v1 in the early game). The other 4 players will have their own map just like the one above, but will be separated by the maze. Its hard to describe sorry

    - Because I've put many creep camps on pathways, rushing early on with a small army will be suicide. Many of the creeps have shadowmeld, so you can't even see them until you ran into them (or its daytime). Therefor, in my map players should take advantage of the many creep camps to farm early XP for their heroes instead of going for early win. Not that you can't rush, but you'd take some losses on the way.

    - The pathways are your biggest problem. While the area surrounding the maze is very open and has no possibility of choke points, the river pathways are very choke friendly and allow players to ambush armies with an array of towers, units or hero spells from high ground. Especially the expansions that will be accessible from the river will be very powerful defense choke points.

    - Last thing is that no matter what, this map has a central theme other than defeat all players. It will be a sort of "mini-raid" where you buy flying units and assault very powerful creeps to access the best shops in the map. Like Dragon Roosts, Marketplace etc. And to get there, you have to buy a flying transport ship from the center bridge area. And maybe even defend that, because you don't want the enemy team up there with you on high grounds.


    Map is still in early build, so I may take more of your advice than I say now, this is just what I think right now.
     
  10. Khaldaiel

    Khaldaiel

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    Hello there, I'm adding here a link to the beta version of my map. There is a lot of details I won't write right here, and the downloadable version of the map is there too.
    Scar of Northrend - Beta version | HIVE

    Yeah, I know that my map triggered most of this considerations about space for amies and bases .... and I have been working on it, making it more playable I think !! But... Even if I agree with the fact that being able to move around and have free space to manoeuver is important... Flat open ground only won't do it either, will it ? Because with big armies, the engagement impacts 50% of the fight... having stuffs to move around and being able to chose where you fight is also important, isn't it ?? Flat open battleground favor melee armies in general... Isn't variety the most important thing about battleground in general ? So that it's possible to find chokes, open battleground and all that...
     
  11. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  12. Abovegame

    Abovegame

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    @Mr.Henci I don't think so for now. if i change my mind i'll post here ( if there is space left ). Beacause 4v4 seems very tempting but it could take plenty of time to do. : )
     
  13. DuckDuckGoose

    DuckDuckGoose

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    Hi, short time lurker, first time poster. I'd like to participate if its open to newbies like me.
     
  14. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    of course it is, try to read tutorials (from here), see others maps, reviews, youtube videos so you can learn more and improve your skills before mapping,

    good luck.

    edit:

    22 days since this contest started, 21 remain.
    Started the long thing of puting doodads for enviroment.

    enviroment

    upload_2018-12-22_22-6-46.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  15. I'm very sad to say that I messed up my map beyond repair now.
    Finished something, then enlarged total map wanting to duplicate it.
    Since I set it to max width, part of the map on the left was cut.
    Didn't notice that until I had already saved.
    And then it was too late.


    I'll have to start a new map if that is ok.

    I'll keep the theme and the tileset, but will make it more 4v4 focused and balanced now that I have to start from scratch.

    Untitled.jpg
     
  16. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    "I messed up my map beyond repair now."

    There is not such thing "as beyond of repair", just need to work a bit more.
    unless file corrupted, even so I know someone who did a miracle with a corrupted file of a map.

    it happened to me that my wc3 editor closed without save and lost progress, when things like that happens ( or when you screw it in an olympic way), take a long breath call the day off, go and have fun with some final fantasy, starcraft 2, skyrim , what ever you like and then continue to fix the thing after 1 or 2 days of rest. (mapping saturates, and fall back the progrees is very frustrating and saturates the will of map a lot).



    if some parts are lost, it can be re-terrained, no need to start all over. To me seems pretty much fixable (from what I see from the screen, the missing parts can be re-terrained with no problem, just by increasing the size of the map to the right in the size and camara bounds option).

    Sugestion for the future, make daily copies.

    Another sugestion upload a wc3 file of your map as a pastebin with no expiration time here, so you will have an online version of your map even if your hard disck burns.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  17. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @DuckDuckGoose I'm eager to see some WIP from you. New blood brings new things.

    @sentrywiz sad to hear that. You can start a new map or rework the old one, anything you wish. Good luck and wish you enought patience.

    @Ragnaros17 only 20 days left, god damn, I still haven't had enought time on my hands to even start, but this week I should be able to produce a solid map WIP I believe. GL, seems like you are near finishing the map.
     
  18. Well remaking that part would take a huge chunk of time which I think isn't good enough.
    Plus, I had another problem. Map was very solid 2v2, but cramming extra 4 players into that
    would really change all.

    Yes you're right I should use pastebin for this too, its very useful.
    I was arrogant enough to think I got this in the bag. Then this happened xD

    @sentrywiz sad to hear that. You can start a new map or rework the old one, anything you wish. Good luck and wish you enought patience.

    Np. I don't make melee maps so mistakes like these are expected.

    Like I said, I'll just remake my map, I'm not changing the idea.


    NEW WIP:

    Untitled.png

    PASTEBIN:

    wc3map2018 | HIVE
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2018
  19. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    "I was arrogant enough to think I got this in the bag. Then this happened xD"

    It happened me the same with a 1vs1 contest. Don´t worry about it, think of this as a chance to fix things.

    "Map was very solid 2v2, but cramming extra 4 players into that would really change all."

    I think I asked before if 8 players fit in that map, because it seemed hard when I look it.

    Overall sugestion if you want to start over. mappers put the neutral buildings first and terrain later (for melee I did that in all my maps). Do the terrain blindly (with not knowing the neutrals positions) may lead to lack of space. Even I had problems by no considering the position of the green creeps (but I can manage / tolerate such situation).

    what ever you do, good luck


    "seems like you are near finishing the map."

    Eehhh, If I have to be honest, no is not near to finish yet (I think I am in a half),
    I still want to re-check the loot and test the creeps (more and more beta-test). But later
    And fully properly doodad all the map will take quite a time (I just started).
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  20. bethmachine

    bethmachine

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    I might join this. Will post a WIP if I'm ready to join. Just need to fully decide if I'll be able to do it, within the time constraints.
     
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