Protect the Town v1.7

[CapAd]

Hello!

Nice map, we played a few times today. It's a really fun map, will definitely play in the future.

I played a human.

1. The gold mines were a bit hard to find, we didn't find them until our 4th playthrough.
2. The units feel useless after they get damaged, since there's no way to heal them. Especially the weakest units.
3. There are bugs with events. Sometimes they trigger in random moments or after reclaiming camps? There's also no way to know what the quests are talking about. For example which camp needs to be destroyed? Or "kill all humans"? But this means the end of the game.
4. Balance issues, mostly related to heroes. Some heroes are op, while others are really weak. Even in the same dwarf race, the mountain king is way stronger than the engineer, the stomp is op.
5. What about adding more people to the evil team? Even 1 more would be nice. It's boring to be in a team alone, can't even chat with anyone if the other team is talking on the allied chat.

 

[ElricDeRey]

Hello!

Nice map, we played a few times today. It's a really fun map, will definitely play in the future.

I played a human.

1. The gold mines were a bit hard to find, we didn't find them until our 4th playthrough.
2. The units feel useless after they get damaged, since there's no way to heal them. Especially the weakest units.
3. There are bugs with events. Sometimes they trigger in random moments or after reclaiming camps? There's also no way to know what the quests are talking about. For example which camp needs to be destroyed? Or "kill all humans"? But this means the end of the game.
4. Balance issues, mostly related to heroes. Some heroes are op, while others are really weak. Even in the same dwarf race, the mountain king is way stronger than the engineer, the stomp is op.
5. What about adding more people to the evil team? Even 1 more would be nice. It's boring to be in a team alone, can't even chat with anyone if the other team is talking on the allied chat.

Thanks for playing my map!

1. In Information(F9) I tried to describe what needs to be done and some tips.
2. The castle has a regeneration aura, like a fountain.
3. I wrote the direction in the description of the Quest. For example, Destroy the human camp in the northwestern forest. And this camp appears after taking the quest. Or should I just ping the quest location?
4. Yes, I have a bad balance. But I hope that feedback from people will help me improve it
5. Nice idea! Maybe I'll add a second player for the Evil.

 

[CapAd]

1. It might be useful to show info message at the start, with tips for each faction, since not many people read F9.
3. Yes, a ping would be cool! I'd also add that info in the quest message, "In the northwestern forest". It was a bit confusing and no one figured out that the direction was in F9, in our multiple gameplays. We didn't know there's any other camp, thought it's about lumber camps.
4. I also noticed that while the stationary turrets summoned tier 1 engineer units are good for the first 5 minutes of the game, they become useless very quickly. They also live too short, I think. Make some upgrades to scale them? Gryphons seemed to die too quickly too.

 

[ElricDeRey]

Okay, I'll do it today or tomorrow

 

[CapAd]

1. Quests don't give us vision of the NPC camps, only pings. It should be vision too, I think. Otherwise players don't know how's the camp defending at the moment. Or ignore the camp.
2. Strenghtening golems using engineer strenghten doesn't work.
3. Strenghten ability is really trash, not worth using it.
4. Not all humans drop corpses? Necro player complained.
5. The bandit supply building is trash, it only gives temporary buff.
6. Gyrocopters have too low dmg.
7. Tomes of experience spawned by dwarf forges give almost no experience? It fills the level bar by like 2% at lvl 5.
8. Locals AI is bad, undead player can just lure them into the undead base, then they die and make the undead army stronger to do a quick offense.
9. Player names should not be changed into faction names, it's confusing and it's better to see player true nicknames.
10. There's a bug with controlling heroes. If player has both hero and units in selection, then orders all selected units to move by right click, the hero doesn't move until he finishes attacking (if he is attacking). If player orders units to attack (hotkey A) and they're all busy moving, only the units change their order to attack correctly. The hero waits till he finished moving and only then changes order. We need to select hero separately to order him without any issues.
11. High Necromancer's Blight aura doesn't seem to do anything.
12. Raising Corpses ability sometimes doesn't work near corpses (could be near undead corpses).
13. Summoning Mega Golem using Engineer ability takes too long, should be instant. It's ulti ability, after all.
14. Some heroes have huge advantage over others in conquering the caves with goldmines. For example, mountain king can use his stomp ability 2-3 times and clear the whole cave in 2 minutes, while engineer takes 5-10 minutes, losing all his starting units while doing that. Not only it took much longer, but wasted a lot more units. Heroes with damage spells are op, others are weak. Archmage is nice too, with his lightnings. I think each hero should have at least one damage ability.
15. For now we played around 6 times, 6 undead wins. I feel like undeads have too strong both offense and defense, it takes a while to kill their buildings, especially the outpost ones. While the human outposts are destroyed very easily. Human units are too weak. Heroes stats are ok, not too vulnerable, but some have trash abilities. Actually I think that the mountain king stomp ability was fine, it's just that the other heroes are too weak. I think a way to balance this would be to make human units cost more gold (except basic units, which should be weak and cheap) and train way longer, for example 60-120 seconds for one unit, but in exchange they would have more hp or armor.

I can send replay in PM, if you want to see some balancing issues.
All this just from one round today. Will play another soon.

 

[ElricDeRey]

1. Quests don't give us vision of the NPC camps, only pings. It should be vision too, I think. Otherwise players don't know how's the camp defending at the moment. Or ignore the camp.
2. Strenghtening golems using engineer strenghten doesn't work.
3. Strenghten ability is really trash, not worth using it.
4. Not all humans drop corpses? Necro player complained.
5. The bandit supply building is trash, it only gives temporary buff.
6. Gyrocopters have too low dmg.
7. Tomes of experience spawned by dwarf forges give almost no experience? It fills the level bar by like 2% at lvl 5.
8. Locals AI is bad, undead player can just lure them into the undead base, then they die and make the undead army stronger to do a quick offense.
9. Player names should not be changed into faction names, it's confusing and it's better to see player true nicknames.
10. There's a bug with controlling heroes. If player has both hero and units in selection, then orders all selected units to move by right click, the hero doesn't move until he finishes attacking (if he is attacking). If player orders units to attack (hotkey A) and they're all busy moving, only the units change their order to attack correctly. The hero waits till he finished moving and only then changes order. We need to select hero separately to order him without any issues.
11. High Necromancer's Blight aura doesn't seem to do anything.
12. Raising Corpses ability sometimes doesn't work near corpses (could be near undead corpses).
13. Summoning Mega Golem using Engineer ability takes too long, should be instant. It's ulti ability, after all.
14. Some heroes have huge advantage over others in conquering the caves with goldmines. For example, mountain king can use his stomp ability 2-3 times and clear the whole cave in 2 minutes, while engineer takes 5-10 minutes, losing all his starting units while doing that. Not only it took much longer, but wasted a lot more units. Heroes with damage spells are op, others are weak. Archmage is nice too, with his lightnings. I think each hero should have at least one damage ability.
15. For now we played around 6 times, 6 undead wins. I feel like undeads have too strong both offense and defense, it takes a while to kill their buildings, especially the outpost ones. While the human outposts are destroyed very easily. Human units are too weak. Heroes stats are ok, not too vulnerable, but some have trash abilities. Actually I think that the mountain king stomp ability was fine, it's just that the other heroes are too weak. I think a way to balance this would be to make human units cost more gold (except basic units, which should be weak and cheap) and train way longer, for example 60-120 seconds for one unit, but in exchange they would have more hp or armor.

I can send replay in PM, if you want to see some balancing issues.
All this just from one round today. Will play another soon.

oh so many okay.
1. I will add a vision on camps.
2-3. hm, i rework it.
4. Units killed by the Plague do not leave corpses, as they turn into zombies(it's parasite mechanic in war3).
5. Bandits are a strange faction in general, their game tactics are only through the hero. And the supply building gives them quite a lot of gold.
6. When my friend played with these Gyrocopters, he destroyed the undead base with them xd Because they have siege damage.
7. It's standart Tome of Experience, so it doesn't give much.
8. I didn't make any AI, so this is a standart AI, and I don't know how to make it better.
9. Okay, I'll do this: Name(Faction).
10. Strange...
11. This is the regeneration of undead units, like on Blight, I should boost it, right?
12. Corpses of zombies or other undead are not suitable for this. That's why I gave him the ability to create corpses.
13. okay.
14. okay.
15. Hmm, I don't know, I think the balance is calculated like this: in the early and mid game the undead are stronger, but in the late game it's the Town. But I'll see how I can strengthen the Town's mid game.
Thanks for your feedback!

 

[CapAd]

5. I mean the building that gives a buff, not materials. I'm not actually sure if it was the bandits, but the building casts a buff that increases armor and damage.
6. Nice, didn't notice!
7. Increase by a bit and lower the drop chance?
14. It might be fine, so humans have to help each other with the camps. We did it like this and claimed all four.
15. Yeah you might be right, there's no need to strenghten town, it's strong in late game.

I'll send more info in the PM!

 

[deepstrasz]

It's a nice defense-survival map, old school+.
Would be nice to be less reliant on core gameplay mechanics.
Passive ability icons could be proper looking. These help if you'd like to edit:
Button Manager v1.8.2

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Warcraft Image Lab Warcraft Image Lab is a tool for image batch conversion and icon creation for Warcraft III. Includes support for BLP, TGA and DDS, as well as common image formats. GitHub repository can be found here: Source Code Many thanks to Moonman for sharing information on Reforged...

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[smithyjones]

I played this game again after I played in v1.1.

I found the following:

1. Balancing is still way off. For example, Humans can repair and rebuild extremely quickly, even in the midst of an attack. The only way I found to counter this as Ice undead is to use frost wyrms to freeze the buildings. I have no idea how to Plague undead would defeat constant and instant human repairs.

2. Undead heroes seem to be very good at back attacking humans through their graveyard and Blink abilities. This lets them bypass defenses and just harass human bases with just heroes.

3. Humans still don't seem to get notified when undead take quests. Not once did I see the humans try to defend the quest objectives despite the rewards they would've received.

4. Dwarf race seems very oddly balanced, where all offensive power is focused on Dwarf Hero's stomp, while all defensive power is in the Defenders. The air units can be annoying, but are straightforward to deal with. It looks like the best way to beat dwarf is to ignore units and go straight for the town hall, so long as you can keep dwarf hero away and undead heroes healed + separated so dwarf can only stomp one at a time. In general, Dwarf Race is the most powerful race among humans. The other factions have manageable units with no major AOE burst damge I saw

5. It seems that humans have a much harder time winning than undead because of the coordination required. Very rarely in the game did I ever see two human players working together to destroy an undead objective. All the human players seem to have been playing their own individual games, and the undead players happened to encounter them one at a time. I think humans need to be pushed and guided into working together to defeat the undead.

6. I never saw humans attack the cultist base on the top right of the map. Is this because the humans don't even know they exist?

7. Undead pushing power seems to come from undead hero's graveyard ability. I'm not sure if it's too powerful or not, as I never saw humans focus fire the graveyards despite the many times I used it to backdoor their base. Are they unable to attack graveyards?

8. Death Knight seems like the only way for undead players to reliably heal themselves in battle. If the undead players don't complete the "Kill northwestern lumber base", then undead will lack healing in the late game. I think it's not very good to lock undead healing behind a single quest. There should be other methods to get healing mid-battle for undead, even if some of them are not as good as death knight.

Overall, it feels like Undead players have more important information about the map than human players, and can decide when the quests happen. This makes it virtually impossible for humans to properly defend the quest objectives, as the undead can start the quest when there is an attack wave. Hell, one undead player can go to the quest area while the other player starts the quest, giving a huge head start over humans.

 

[ElricDeRey]

I played this game again after I played in v1.1.

I found the following:

1. Balancing is still way off. For example, Humans can repair and rebuild extremely quickly, even in the midst of an attack. The only way I found to counter this as Ice undead is to use frost wyrms to freeze the buildings. I have no idea how to Plague undead would defeat constant and instant human repairs.

2. Undead heroes seem to be very good at back attacking humans through their graveyard and Blink abilities. This lets them bypass defenses and just harass human bases with just heroes.

3. Humans still don't seem to get notified when undead take quests. Not once did I see the humans try to defend the quest objectives despite the rewards they would've received.

4. Dwarf race seems very oddly balanced, where all offensive power is focused on Dwarf Hero's stomp, while all defensive power is in the Defenders. The air units can be annoying, but are straightforward to deal with. It looks like the best way to beat dwarf is to ignore units and go straight for the town hall, so long as you can keep dwarf hero away and undead heroes healed + separated so dwarf can only stomp one at a time. In general, Dwarf Race is the most powerful race among humans. The other factions have manageable units with no major AOE burst damge I saw

5. It seems that humans have a much harder time winning than undead because of the coordination required. Very rarely in the game did I ever see two human players working together to destroy an undead objective. All the human players seem to have been playing their own individual games, and the undead players happened to encounter them one at a time. I think humans need to be pushed and guided into working together to defeat the undead.

6. I never saw humans attack the cultist base on the top right of the map. Is this because the humans don't even know they exist?

7. Undead pushing power seems to come from undead hero's graveyard ability. I'm not sure if it's too powerful or not, as I never saw humans focus fire the graveyards despite the many times I used it to backdoor their base. Are they unable to attack graveyards?

8. Death Knight seems like the only way for undead players to reliably heal themselves in battle. If the undead players don't complete the "Kill northwestern lumber base", then undead will lack healing in the late game. I think it's not very good to lock undead healing behind a single quest. There should be other methods to get healing mid-battle for undead, even if some of them are not as good as death knight.

Overall, it feels like Undead players have more important information about the map than human players, and can decide when the quests happen. This makes it virtually impossible for humans to properly defend the quest objectives, as the undead can start the quest when there is an attack wave. Hell, one undead player can go to the quest area while the other player starts the quest, giving a huge head start over humans.

1. After the destruction of the human tower, it cannot be built for a minute, is this not enough?

3. Humans are given vision on the camp when the Undead take the quest.

5. The map is designed specifically for working together from the Defenders side.

6. After the Undead starts the Ritual, the Defenders will be pinged at that location.

7. Graveyards can be attacked but I will reduce their HP.

8. A Dead Alchemist moves around the undead bases, selling potions.

Hmm, maybe make it so that quests start at some point, like events? So that both sides know when the quest will start.

thanks for feedback!