Techtree Contest #15 - Co-op Commanders [Optionally Paired]

[Xelos]

think I will attend new contest, but first I have to find new idea and resource for raw materials for it.

 

[Lordul Dracula]

6 years have passed from my last team

 

[SgtWinter]

Here's some W.I.P screenies for my Kel'Thuzad commander. Inspired by the Naxxramas raid and some WC3 pre-alpha concepts.

Kel'Thuzad will be the only hero the player can have. To balance that out with the melee races, he will have the ability to select which abilities he will learn as the game progresses. His Necromancers are responsible for raising Skeletons, which are permanent and do not have a training time, but they will cost resources and can be dispelled by spellcasters. T1 will mostly consist of Kel'Thuzad and his entourage of Necromancers and skeletons. However, as he reaches T2, he will be able to construct structures that train units but allow Kel'Thuzad to summon demi-heroes such as Patchwerk the Abomination, Anub'Rekhan the Crypt Lord, or Noth the Plaguebringer. Only one Demi-hero can be active at a time.

I'm still thinking about what T3 will include.

 

[Footman16]

Just thought I'd add another WiP for one of the casters, I might do more of these depending upon how much time I think they'll take but this is just a wee teaser.

Unit Preview

The Primary caster of the Kirin Tor Offensive, this versatile caster is both mobile and effective at turning the tide of battle. I designed this unit with the idea of versatility and synergy in mind as such his spells will be useful when combined with other units and their abilities. Summon Water Elemental - Summons a 300 Hit Point Water Elemental that deals 15 - 20 damage, an Arcanist can only maintain one elemental at a time. The Elemental can be sacrificed by a nearby Spellblade to heal surrounding units. Mage Armour - Increases the armour of the target unit by 10. Teleport - Teleports the Arcanist and 3 other units to a friendly unit or building. This ability may be subject to balancing.

 

[Ether]

I just wrote unit and building tooltips on my notepad, fleshed out skills and ideas, resources are now compiled but needs 'order' and 'organizing' them for easy map import. Now, gathering some icons for spells and upg's.

Here's King Mrgl-Mrgl faction, just aligned himself with the naga.

Since, I'm working two factions but one is this, for contest entry, and one for mod I'm working, so it will be divided time but I want to believe that I will make it through to deadline. I'm on concept phase and some import phase.

Edit: Might shelf and cut some models to use because I think some of them are... too cartoony just like the tree turtle.

 

[Bangsgaard]

This is amazing! I am currently working on a co-op commander project and wouldn't mind some inspiration. If anyone find commander making interesting like me, feel free to message me and join my map-making team.
Questions for the contest: (Havn't tried one of these yet)
Can you have several entires? Can you pick a commander that has already been picked by someone else? Is it classic or reforged?
Again kudos to the admins making this - We need co-op commanders in Warcraft 3 soon!

 

[Wazzz]

This is amazing! I am currently working on a co-op commander project and wouldn't mind some inspiration. If anyone find commander making interesting like me, feel free to message me and join my map-making team.
Questions for the contest: (Havn't tried one of these yet)
Can you have several entires? Can you pick a commander that has already been picked by someone else? Is it classic or reforged?
Again kudos to the admins making this - We need co-op commanders in Warcraft 3 soon!

While there isn't anything stopping you from making more than one Techtree, only one would count as the entry and would be judged accordingly. You can pick a commander that has already been chosen, and it can be classic or reforged - it's up to the contestant's discretion which one they choose to do.

Hi everyone so like I said in my last comment I am currently working on my last map (and final map),
Like all my maps there will be 3 new races.
-Kul-Tiran=Human 20/30%
-Ice Monsters=Orc 80/90%
-Syndicate= Night Elf 40/50%
My last map was a big failure. So I want to make sure that this map will be a great one.
So if there is anyone that would like to help me pls with (test the map,ideas,) or to become partners/team.

I'm not entirely sure... what is going on here, so I feel it might be important to mention that this is a contest thread, not a project recruitment thread.

 

[Lordul Dracula]

While there isn't anything stopping you from making more than one Techtree, only one would count as the entry and would be judged accordingly. You can pick a commander that has already been chosen, and it can be classic or reforged - it's up to the contestant's discretion which one they choose to do.



I'm not entirely sure... what is going on here, so I feel it might be important to mention that this is a contest thread, not a project recruitment thread.

ok my bad sry

 

[AMarkov]

I pick Uther the Lightbringer

 

[SgtWinter]

I pick Uther the Lightbringer
View attachment 356530

You can definitely do a lot with Uther and his knights. As a fan of Uther, I can't wait to see what you'll come up with!

 

[Bangsgaard]

Alright, I am in. I will pick Arthas

 

[Footman16]

Just thought I'd give another WiP to show the expanded unit roster.

A few notable additions are Kalec (Kalecgos) a support hero designed to heal and counter offensive spells.
The noble Silver Covenant Hippogryph, whilst these Hippogryph cannot be ridden they have upgrades to enhance their anti-air capabilities.
In the back we can see the Siege Elemental, serving a similar role to the Siege Engine this Elemental has to be constantly maintained by the Summoner, who if he is killed will disperse the Elemental.
The mana Crystal on the right is similar to the Kodo Beast/Obsidian Statue offering Brilliance Aura but little in the way of offensive Capabilities.

The Soul Spread ability, which sacrifices a summoned unit to heal nearby units has been moved to the Summoner. Instead the Spellblade has Magic Defence, the defend ability that grants magic immunity, True Sight and Purifying chains that dispels magic as it bounces from unit to unit.

Whether I'll add a Blue Dragon unit I'm still debating, I do have a building slot free so its possible.

Spoiler: hidden

 

[Yours Truly]

I'm afraid I don't have much to show. I spent way too much time fixing a broken system.

Here's the faction's primary melee unit, Brawler. He has an upgrade called Venerable Vintage:

Here's how it looks like

 

[Footman16]

I'm afraid I don't have much to show. I spent way too much time fixing a broken system.

Here's the faction's primary melee unit, Brawler. He has an upgrade called Venerable Vintage:
View attachment 356554

Here's how it looks like

View attachment 356555

Ooh looks like a cool mechanic.

 

[Cherrymage]

I'm afraid I don't have much to show. I spent way too much time fixing a broken system.

Here's the faction's primary melee unit, Brawler. He has an upgrade called Venerable Vintage:
View attachment 356554

Here's how it looks like

View attachment 356555

Looks interesting

In the back we can see the Siege Elemental, serving a similar role to the Siege Engine this Elemental has to be constantly maintained by the Summoner, who if he is killed will disperse the Elemental.

The Soul Spread ability, which sacrifices a summoned unit to heal nearby units

Neato, sounds great and fun. Feels like a faction of professional summoners. I like this

 

[johnwar]

Showing the Abilities of Lady Liadrin i will add the other heroes ability later.

1st Skill Q

2nd Skill W

3rd Skill(Passive)

Ultimate Skill R

	Light's Judgement Lady Liadrin calls upon the light to change her holy abilities. Holy Light and Divine Punishment.
Holy Light Calls upon the light to heal nearby friendly units. Level 1 - Heals for 200 hit points. Level 2 - Heals for 250 hit points. Level 3 - Heals for 300 hit points.	Divine Punishment Calls down wave of holy light that damage units in an area. Each wave deals initial damage. Level 1 - 100 wave damage, 5 damage per second. Level 2 - 150 wave damage, 10 damage per second. Level 3 - 200 wave damage, 15 damage per second.

	Divine Protection
	Calls upon the light to give nearby friendly units bonus armor. Level 1 - 4 bonus armor.Lasts 25 seconds. Level 2 - 7 bonus armor. Lasts 35 seconds. Level 3 - 10 bonus armor. Lasts 45 seconds.

	Weakness Aura
	Decreases the movement speed and attack rate of nearby enemy units. Level 1 - 10% movement, 5% attack. Level 2 - 20% movement, 10% attack. Level 3 - 30% movement, 15% attack.

	Blood Vanguard
	Lady Liadrin calls her blood knights to fight with her. Lasts 70 seconds. Blood Knights have 900 hit points, 36 to 39 damage.

 

[Barorque]

Sigh, having a bit of a creativity crisis over here.

I am simply unsure how ¨unique¨ I have to go with the spells.
On one hand many of vanilla abilities fit quite well, on the other I don't want my entry to be as simple in that department as the last one.
Let's just take good old Blizzard, if I add slow and random freeze (stun or 100% slow) to it, is it still just a reuse of old ability?


EDIT:

I mean using negative values on abilities opens up a whole new realm of possibilities if you haven't considered that.

Also look at the standard Blizzard races, dispel magic and disenchant are essentially the same spell re-skinned to fulfill a role.

Well that's what I have been doing so far, but seeing all those awesome page long triggers makes my abilities kind of ¨meh¨ in comparison (on an effort scale at least).

 

[Footman16]

Sigh, having a bit of a creativity crisis over here.

I am simply unsure how ¨unique¨ I have to go with the spells.
On one hand many of vanilla abilities fit quite well, on the other I don't want my entry to be as simple in that department as the last one.
Let's just take good old Blizzard, if I add slow and random freeze (stun or 100% slow) to it, is it still just a reuse of old ability?

I mean using negative values on abilities opens up a whole new realm of possibilities if you haven't considered that.

Also look at the standard Blizzard races, dispel magic and disenchant are essentially the same spell re-skinned to fulfill a role.

EDIT: Quick question, once our entry is done, if we upload it to the map section before the deadline can we then use the feedback from that upload to update the map as long as its before the deadline?

 

[Wazzz]

If you add things to previously existing spells, I think it counts as something new.
I think if you use a lot of ingame spells without changing names or icons or anything like that, it could be an issue. However, I am also of the school of thought that clever use of ingame spells (particularly where they fit to create a new idea as a whole) is a viable option. Granted, contests sort of up the ante there, especially when it comes to the Creativity aspect.

One piece of general advice I can give is something I often do - it is definitely worth exploring the other data fields of various spells to see if there's anything that's either unused or can be implemented differently. It's also worth using a lot of Object Editor tools to produce a vastly different result on something that existed previously. Furthermore, if you are able to have abilities be applied when you have a specific buff applied to a unit, that opens up countless doors.


Now, that being said, I have an announcement for my own Unofficial Entry. It seems that even with my attempts to save this in an older version, the issue of me using a World Editor that is running on the latest update has become apparent - the model and possibly texture files are of a slightly different format ingame that are not backwards compatible. This is an issue I was discussing with @Retera where trying to run older versions of his model editor seemed to run into an issue with reading models from RF, even if they were just the SD ones. It's because the format for the models themselves are just that liiiittle bit different, so it screws the whole thing over. This is also likely to be the reason we had so much difficulty uploading a template map that everybody could use.

That being said, for those who can still run it, I would like to upload a demo commander, Snarlmane. Snarlmane is a Gnoll Overseer and he leads an army that can best be described as a piece of crap. However, it is through strong leadership that they are able to, for a short while, overcome their own innate truancy and self sabotaging to unite against the smooth-skin scum.

The features include:
- Integrated abilities for Snarlmane heroes
- Integration of mechanics to provide incentive for using purely Gnoll heroes without intruding upon the gameplay functionality of other factions
- A basic demonstration of key unit elements designed for their roles with little to no custom elements for abilities

To play as Snarlmane, select Orcs at 90%.

In answer to the question of using feedback, you are allowed to use it if the map is uploaded early. That being said, I wouldn't expect a great deal of feedback, but anything you can use in that respect to further your entry is allowed.

 

[Footman16]

In answer to the question of using feedback, you are allowed to use it if the map is uploaded early. That being said, I wouldn't expect a great deal of feedback, but anything you can use in that respect to further your entry is allowed.

Ah thanks for clarifying, it makes sense not to penalise people that finish their entry early to not be able to use the feedback they get to tweak/fix any bugs imbalances found by other members of the community.

I'll take a look at your Snarlmane map, I'm assuming its classic graphics

 

[Wazzz]

Yep, it is classic graphics - and I did try to save it in an older format, but so far no dice unfortunately. I think there's just too many issues on Blizzard's end to pull that off.

I should also clarify that getting testers to playtest the map is also not against contest rules. If you can find the people to do it, go for it

 

[MrRious]

Can you please explain the Hero part of the contest?

- Does he(/she) have to be from the WC3 or the Warcraft lore in general?
- If from WC3 can he be modified, or does he have to have the old set of skills?
- If from the general lore, can he be a custom character based around a certain faction/class/race?
- Since the min. amount of Heroes is just one, should the tech-tree focus only on this one with the other being less significant or can the units be based around all of the heroes in general?

This sorta things

 

[Footman16]

Yep, it is classic graphics - and I did try to save it in an older format, but so far no dice unfortunately. I think there's just too many issues on Blizzard's end to pull that off.

I should also clarify that getting testers to playtest the map is also not against contest rules. If you can find the people to do it, go for it

So I gave the race a good playthrough against computers to get a feel for them and I liked a lot of what I saw.

Pros:
-The race had a definite feel to it of prioritising massed low food units over high food units along with the kind of ad-hoc nature of the units with looters, scavengers and straight up brutes giving the Gnoll's a wide variety which was cool.
-Icons and custom models were appropriate and very well done and used where necessary.
-Snarllmane's aura was interesting and definitely set him out as the Commander of the race.
-The race "seemed" balanced but there were a few areas of weakness that I'll outline.
-Its very impressive you were able to do so much work in such a short time.
-The race felt like I was playing Gnolls which is a big big plus on theme and aesthetic. I didn't know how such low hp units would fare against AoE etc and whilst it is a weakness they do seem to have counters.

Cons:
-Some abilities have the wrong icons and tooltips (i.e. Hogger's Avatar mentions Garithos "Inhuman beasts!") but this is more just a polishing up issue.
-No early game healing as far as I could tell which was problematic for a race with on average very low hp
-Few dispels
-Not as much originality in the abilities as I would've liked with most being re-named/re-skins of existing ones which isn't bad per se but you do need some original abilities in there. Especially when it comes to Heroes.
-No shop with some Gnoll themed items
-I could go into more specifics about some units and how they maybe don't work but I don't think that's necessary.
-The necessity to get Hogger first whilst understandable for the theme I don't think helps balance wise since you're being forced into a particular hero's playstyle and your opponent would know your stuck for your first choice of hero and counter it immediately.

Overall:
Very fun race to play but needs a bit of polish and added uniqueness but does a very good job in catching the feel and aesthetic of the gnolls in appearance and playstyle, a solid foundation to work upon

 

[Wazzz]

Can you please explain the Hero part of the contest?

- Does he(/she) have to be from the WC3 or the Warcraft lore in general?
- If from WC3 can he be modified, or does he have to have the old set of skills?
- If from the general lore, can he be a custom character based around a certain faction/class/race?
- Since the min. amount of Heroes is just one, should the tech-tree focus only on this one with the other being less significant or can the units be based around all of the heroes in general?

This sorta things

I think this has been covered before, but in many respects that might involve scrounging through the thread.

- This is Warcraft lore in general, so you have quite a roster you can play around with.
- If they are from Warcraft 3, they absolutely can be modified - in fact, it is definitely encouraged
- Ideally it would be an existing character, but there is also a degree of flexibility, especially for characters that have existed in several factions as well as some of the more interesting "what if?" scenarios (like Dreadlord Jaina was apparently a thing? Shit if somebody wants to do that I don't have it in me to stop them).
- Further on this point, I would like to state that this doesn't apply for other heroes you attach. You can make the other heroes whatever you like, ideally something that fits thematically.
- When it comes to how you handle heroes, this is intentionally very open for interpretation - ideally, it should be integrated in a way that can fit within melee gameplay, buuut aside from that, go nuts with the creative liberty.

I hope that helps cover some things

@Footman16 oh sweet, I wasn't expecting anything quite like this, it was pretty much something I just threw together so it's nice to see such strong feedback

The shop... yeeeeah I was thinking of adding something like that in, but I also wanted to upload it very soon, so I might slap one in for fun soon
I imagine the race itself probably has quite a bit of balance issue, it has like zero testing in that area. It was... sort of one of those things where I was rather drawn to making something similar to a campaign race in terms of simplicity, but am very happy the execution of ideas landed where they did.

Granted, the forcing Snarlmane to be the first hero is probably going to cause some balance issues for anybody who wants to open with anything different, but I do hope it serves as a nice example for what can be done - I also had it that Tavern heroes were disabled for Snarlmane players, to sort of demonstrate one possible way of steering players towards the playstyle.

I think my favorite part, though, is the mention of it being a solid foundation to work upon - that is because this is, in part, intended as a testbed for ideas for my own project, which while different to the Warcraft 3 melee gameplay, does benefit from me exploring such ideas here. I think I might update this a bit when I can, although I do intend to keep it rather simple

 

[The_Spellweaver]

Okay, I'm entering. Chosen character: Cho'gall leading more people into the Twilight Hammer cult, to bring about THE HOUR OF TWILIGHT!

I am the beginning of the end...the shadow which blots out the sun...the bell which tolls your doom...
For this moment ALONE was I made. Look upon your death, mortals, and despair! - Ultraxion

 

[MogulKahn]

What about people who have older version of Warcraft? Version 1.27 to be exact.

 

[Yours Truly]

I mean using negative values on abilities opens up a whole new realm of possibilities if you haven't considered that.

Ironic, isn't it? That's what I did last contest and Kam thought I was just reusing vanilla abilities. I don't advice you to do that.

 

[johnwar]

Once again showing the abilities, but now it's for the Grand Magister

1st Skill Q

2nd Skill W

3rd Skill(Passive)

Ultimate Skill R

	Pillars of Flame
	The Grand Magister casts pillars of flame in a straight line, dealing damage and stunning enemy ground units. Level 1 - 50 damage, 2 second stun, 2 pillars of flame. Level 2- 100 damage, 3 second stun, 3 pillars of flame. Level 3 - 150 damage, 4 second stun, 4 pillars of flame.

	Fireblast
	The Grand Magister blasts an area with fire, stunning enemy land units for 1 second and damaging nearby enemy units. Level 1 - 25 damage. Level 2 - 50 damage. Level 3 - 75 damage.

	Feedback
	The Grand Magister's attacks destroy mana per hit. The mana combusts, dealing damage to the attacked unit. Level 1- 20 mana destroyed per hit. Level 2 - 25 mana destroyed per hit. Level 3 - 30 mana destroyed per hit.

	Mount Arcane Golem
	The Grand Magister mounts his own Arcane Golem, a powerful armored golem that has the following traits:|n|n- Bonus damage, hit points, and armor. The Grand Magister becomes mechanical, rendering him immune to most forms of stun, most offensive spells, and several beneficial spells.

 

[Wazzz]

People using an older version should still be able to submit, as it seems backward compatibility is the primary issue, but not the other way around.

In regards to Kam's reviews, he still gave the Seraphic Union a good score on Creativity - 11/15. He mentioned that the abilities were generally interesting but [sometimes] they were heavily based on standard spells, which to me didn't seem to be the primary factor for not getting 15/15. It was his next point that I found to be the primary point to take home, which was:

There wasn't anything that stood out as an exciting ability or interaction though.

Unfortunately, this is a factor that can only be quantified by playing around with what you're making, and ideally making something that you feel excited to play as well as to make. That being said, 11/15 is a very respectable score.

Now, it may also be prudent to make reference to the Creativity score area for the Emerald Nightmare:

Contrasting the work put into art, sound, and general feel the abilities are mostly reskinned vanilla spells. Hero abilities vary more. It would have been preferable to see the kind of thought put into the Aspects also extended into spells and abilities. This is an incredibly strong base for a more complex custom race. I'd love to see you continue developing it.

What I particularly like about this review is that we're looking at a case where quite a lot of the abilities were reskinned vanilla spells, the implementation was still clever enough to warrant a score of 10/15 for Creativity. Further on that end, Kam also expands the point to say that this is a phenomenal base to work from, which I think is what people should be working towards at this stage in the competition. This is the process I use myself, where I establish a solid template to expand ideas from, and that is in no small part the purpose of Snarlmane's demo design - it's very basic ideas done to produce the effect I want, which can always be expanded upon with time and polish.

Using negative values for existing standard spells is, ultimately, completely fine. You might not get a perfect score for creativity if you overused the method, but if you implement it in areas where it's warranted and use it in such an effect that it creates compelling gameplay, it should be fine enough, especially for those who are not yet overly strong in the Trigger Editor. After all, if you're not strong in that area, your options for producing completely brand new abilities are somewhat limited. This does not mean that you cannot score well in Creativity, least of all with clever implementations to compensate as well as the right abilities in the right areas to produce the effect you're after. Of course, if a lot of what is designed just feels like a rehash of what already exists just with an added effect, it's almost a similar design philosophy to copying a Wikipedia page and changing the words around slightly - at that point you can dress it up how you want, but it's going to fall into the trap of feeling like plagiarism.

 

[MrRious]

I'm in and so is Antonidas

One more question, are morphed units counted as a seperate one?

 

[MogulKahn]

Then I am in. Will try my chance with Falstad Wildhammer!

 

[Wazzz]

I'm in and so is Antonidas
View attachment 356694

One more question, are morphed units counted as a seperate one?

Good question. I think in some instances, they count as separate units, such as the case of the Obsidian Statue transforming into the Destroyer. Something like the Gargoyle going into Stone Form, however, would count as one unit, with two unit types aiding in its functionality. The same can be said for the burrow ability. Druids of the Talon and Druids of the Claw, I think, also similarly count as single units, but with shape shifting as an aid towards versatility via their ability.

So, it seems if a unit is altering permanently to a separate unit role, then it can count as two separate units. If they can just alternate between the two units as an ability, then it is just one unit in most, if not all, instances.

 

[Footman16]

I'm in and so is Antonidas
View attachment 356694

One more question, are morphed units counted as a seperate one?

Interesting, looks like we've got 2 Jainas and now a Dalaran entry compared to my Kirin Tor Offensive.

Lets hope mine stands out lol.

 

[Daffa]

Since we talk about unique abilities, I also address the fact that using under-utilized abilities (for example Parasite, Spawn Hydra) is a good way to add the score to creativity. Making them communicate with each other (Parasite spawn a healing unit --> the unit can be absorbed for quick heal) is also a way to add further to creativity score. Even if we have tons of highly triggered spells, if they do not cooperate as a whole, it will not yield a high score.

A good way is to incorporate the concept of your faction to the spells.

 

[Wazzz]

Since we talk about unique abilities, I also address the fact that using under-utilized abilities (for example Parasite, Spawn Hydra) is a good way to add the score to creativity. Making them communicate with each other (Parasite spawn a healing unit --> the unit can be absorbed for quick heal) is also a way to add further to creativity score. Even if we have tons of highly triggered spells, if they do not cooperate as a whole, it will not yield a high score.

A good way is to incorporate the concept of your faction to the spells.

Actually used Parasite in that exact way for one of the spells for Secret Grove

With a score of 15/15 for Creativity on that, I can verify that this approach is a phenomenal way to go.
Besides, just because a spell is coded doesn't mean it will necessarily be "creative", least of all if the spell was just one that was downloaded from Hive - you need to be creative in how you use these things, and how you get them to fit.

Then that point about incorporating the concept of your faction to the spells is just so damn perfect - you need to consider the gameplay style you're going for, the role of the unit and what you want them to do, as well as how effective you want them to be in that role.

 

[MogulKahn]

Well, throughout all my years playing custom Warcraft 3 maps and campaigns I have realized that Tomorider's approach to unit design is the best. Just creative and fitting use of existent abilities. It is no accident that his work is praised and loved through whole Warcraft community. His design of Forsaken and Blood Elf races nearly became a standard. Every time I try some other campaigns, I can see that they were inspired by his work.

People don't realize that Warcraft has really simple spells and majority of the times, they are going over the top with their custom spells.

 

[Daffa]

What's the difference between Duststorm and Duststorm_LV?

 

[Yours Truly]

What's the difference between Duststorm and Duststorm_LV?

LV is on the ladder.

 

[Wazzz]

The LV version mostly swaps Gold Mine Expansion points with Neutral Passive building vendors. So the LV version has a more natural expansion set up, while the non-LV version is... a little strange.

I actually didn't know about Tomoraider's campaigns before, partly because I haven't really followed the custom campaign scene that diligently, but after seeing his style I'm thinking that it might be about time I checked out some of these custom campaigns. This is exactly what I'm talking about, @MogulKahn, and it's definitely a style both worth looking at and implementing. In many cases, the simplest solution is best, and from there you can expand existing ideas to get a lot more polish.

Always start with a solid foundation, and work your way up from there.

 

[Footman16]

Right, so whilst I think there will still be balance changes and tweaks to make I believe my entry is now in a state where it can be uploaded

THW.TTC15 Kirin Tor Offensive

So any and all feedback is appreciated

 

[Spellbound]

That was... quick.

 

[Footman16]

That was... quick.

Haha, being stuck in the house 90% of the day due to Covid-19 lockdown has given me a lot of spare time, was bored out my skull before this contest began lol.

Besides gives me time til the 29th of July for people to download and play it so I can make adjustments before the deadline.

 

[Barorque]

WIP #1

I'd like to say that I checked out SC2's Co-Op missions, and can attest that the balance there is not comparable to the vanilla T/P/Z, plus they feel somewhat specialised compared to melee game. Now we might want to do it different here, but I would like to suggest to view these entries as a mission or even a campaign tech-tree, instead of a classic fully balanced one that you see on ladder games. I'm not saying that a completely OP hero which one-shots everything is the idea, but rather is balanced against the enemies as they are in the map. That is not for me to decide, but it would allow for some more interesting ideas. With that being said, I still want a feeling of power growth for Jaina. She won't start off much stronger than normal heroes, yet will become truly powerful once her talents are researched. After all, there needs to be a compensation for only one hero in the faction. Right of the bat, she will seem to have fairly standard abilities, however at level 6, with her ultimate, she will be able to amplify and making them mini-ultimates that synergize well together. Her set of talents, for the most part passive abilities, will be researchable, to either improve, or enable them. Spoiler: Abilities Blizzard Cause periodic damage in an area. This ability is not channelled, allowing for multiple Blizzards at a time. Talents will add a slow effect in the area. If amplified, a more powerful Blizzard will appear around Jaina, lasting longer and dealing damage only to enemies (Star Fall - like). _________________________________________________________________________ Glacial Tidebringer Summons (one) powerful, amphibious water elemental that will fight at Jaina's side. The elemental's attacks will slow enemies, with talents he also has a chance to freeze enemies on attack. Amplified spell will AoE freeze enemies, making for a good synergy with Blizzard. _________________________________________________________________________ Polymorph Transforms an enemy into a mindless sheep, retaining it's health and armor, but preventing it from attacking or using abilities. Mass Sheep is the amplified version, and as the name suggests will transform all enemies in an area, however the duration is much lower. _________________________________________________________________________ Arcane Power Amplifies the effect of (one) next cast ability. After researching the according talent, the cooldown of other abilities will be reset on Arcane Power cast. Spoiler: Talents I still have ideas brewing, after all, we got time, so just look at those as preliminary. But those are the ones I have in mind so far: Tier I Chilling Attack - Slow on attack, upgradable for a chance to freeze enemies Arcane Brilliance - Intelligence bonus + mana regen, upgradable for aura effect Ice Barrier - Frost Shield on low health Conjure Food - Creates mana/health restoring items + small, free food supply _________________________________________________________________________ Tier II Gathering Blizzard - AoE slow in Blizzard Area Quickening Mind - Resets the cooldown of other abilities when Arcane Power is cast _________________________________________________________________________ Tier III Ghosts of the Past - Enables the summoning of Kultiran ghosts via her Amulet... her father may appear - Additionally the Ghost ship seen in cinematic become available Arcane Fleet - Gives her the ability to make the naval units fly! (Dalaran style magic, at a lower scale)

Edit:
I'd like to give a special thanks to Uncle for teaching me how to make those spells. In fact, it's pretty
much his spell I asked months ago, but with a few changes here and there.

Also Footman16, holy shit that was quick indeed!

 

[MogulKahn]

I'd like to say that I checked out SC2's Co-Op missions, and can attest that the balance there is not
comparable to the vanilla T/P/Z, plus they feel somewhat specialised compared to melee game.
Now we might want to do it different here, but I would like to suggest to view these entries as a mission
or even a campaign tech-tree, instead of a classic fully balanced one that you see on ladder games. I'm
not saying that a completely OP hero which one-shots everything is the idea, but rather is balanced
against the enemies as they are in the map. That is not for me to decide, but it would allow for some
more interesting ideas.

Ye, completely agree with that.

 

[Footman16]

I'd like to say that I checked out SC2's Co-Op missions, and can attest that the balance there is not
comparable to the vanilla T/P/Z, plus they feel somewhat specialised compared to melee game.
Now we might want to do it different here, but I would like to suggest to view these entries as a mission
or even a campaign tech-tree, instead of a classic fully balanced one that you see on ladder games. I'm
not saying that a completely OP hero which one-shots everything is the idea, but rather is balanced
against the enemies as they are in the map. That is not for me to decide, but it would allow for some
more interesting ideas.

I respectfully disagree on this point just for the implications it has for judging and balance. There would be no point in judging it based on balance unless you were balancing against the "mission" you choose for your tech-tree. In that case the Judges would need to provide a map with a specific mission already laid out for us to counter or design a fair tech-tree to play against. I'm not wholly opposed to the idea I just feel it would be a different contest and I would be weary of people having lots of different interpretations of what that means. As opposed to the standard tech-tree contest where people know they are at its heart expected to create a 5th playable race centred around the chosen theme.

I think what you're saying would be a really good and fun idea but for a different contest of a different type and with very clearly defined guidelines rules and ideas.

Also Footman16, holy shit that was quick indeed!

It's like I said bro, lockdown and no work has given me days and days of nothing to do but sit around the house and play about on the editor. In fact now that most of the work is done other than some final tweaking and editing I'm feeling kinda bored again lol.

 

[Wazzz]

SC2's co-op missions are significantly different. In the frame of developing a co-op missions project for Warcraft 3, establishing a sense of balance that was separate to the default melee game would not only be acceptable, but expected.

In the frame of a Techtree Contest, that is less so the case. There needs to be a baseline for contestants to work from, which for Techtree Contests has always been the base melee game. The theme may be co-op commanders, but that is simply the theme for choosing what faction to make. There is quite a bit of leniency already in regards to innovations and what is allowed for developing the techtree. Snarlmane serves as one such example of what sort of ideas can be explored and, ideally, expanded upon. After all, Snarlmane was a very quick job to put together, so I understandably expect entries to have a little more going for them than that.

 

[MyPad]

Ah, my second WIP: (The gold-gathering mechanic nearly took forever to reach the state it is in.)

Here are some ability descriptions for the following units:

Druid Villager

Druid of the Harpy

Druid Acolyte

Ability Icon	Ability	Ability Description
	Savage Beast Form

Ability Icon	Ability	Ability Description
	Harpy Form
	Feather Dance

Ability Icon	Ability	Ability Description
	Taunt

 

[Spellbound]

Is the Druid of the Harpy a T1 unit? That health threshold seems like a pretty neat way to power down flying units early on.
Also I would recommend making the gold mine enchanting thing less noisy. I can see that becoming grating after a while.

 

[Bangsgaard]

WIP #1

I'd like to say that I checked out SC2's Co-Op missions, and can attest that the balance there is not comparable to the vanilla T/P/Z, plus they feel somewhat specialised compared to melee game. Now we might want to do it different here, but I would like to suggest to view these entries as a mission or even a campaign tech-tree, instead of a classic fully balanced one that you see on ladder games. I'm not saying that a completely OP hero which one-shots everything is the idea, but rather is balanced against the enemies as they are in the map. That is not for me to decide, but it would allow for some more interesting ideas. With that being said, I still want a feeling of power growth for Jaina. She won't start off much stronger than normal heroes, yet will become truly powerful once her talents are researched. After all, there needs to be a compensation for only one hero in the faction. Right of the bat, she will seem to have fairly standard abilities, however at level 6, with her ultimate, she will be able to amplify and making them mini-ultimates that synergize well together. Her set of talents, for the most part passive abilities, will be researchable, to either improve, or enable them. Spoiler: Abilities Blizzard Cause periodic damage in an area. This ability is not channelled, allowing for multiple Blizzards at a time. Talents will add a slow effect in the area. If amplified, a more powerful Blizzard will appear around Jaina, lasting longer and dealing damage only to enemies (Star Fall - like). _________________________________________________________________________ Glacial Tidebringer Summons (one) powerful, amphibious water elemental that will fight at Jaina's side. The elemental's attacks will slow enemies, with talents he also has a chance to freeze enemies on attack. Amplified spell will AoE freeze enemies, making for a good synergy with Blizzard. _________________________________________________________________________ Polymorph Transforms an enemy into a mindless sheep, retaining it's health and armor, but preventing it from attacking or using abilities. Mass Sheep is the amplified version, and as the name suggests will transform all enemies in an area, however the duration is much lower. _________________________________________________________________________ Arcane Power Amplifies the effect of (one) next cast ability. After researching the according talent, the cooldown of other abilities will be reset on Arcane Power cast. Spoiler: Talents I still have ideas brewing, after all, we got time, so just look at those as preliminary. But those are the ones I have in mind so far: Tier I Chilling Attack - Slow on attack, upgradable for a chance to freeze enemies Arcane Brilliance - Intelligence bonus + mana regen, upgradable for aura effect Ice Barrier - Frost Shield on low health Conjure Food - Creates mana/health restoring items + small, free food supply _________________________________________________________________________ Tier II Gathering Blizzard - AoE slow in Blizzard Area Quickening Mind - Resets the cooldown of other abilities when Arcane Power is cast _________________________________________________________________________ Tier III Ghosts of the Past - Enables the summoning of Kultiran ghosts via her Amulet... her father may appear - Additionally the Ghost ship seen in cinematic become available Arcane Fleet - Gives her the ability to make the naval units fly! (Dalaran style magic, at a lower scale)

Edit:
I'd like to give a special thanks to Uncle for teaching me how to make those spells. In fact, it's pretty
much his spell I asked months ago, but with a few changes here and there.

Also Footman16, holy shit that was quick indeed!

If you want to make commanders balanced around campaign like maps there is another project that would love your help

 

[MyPad]

Is the Druid of the Harpy a T1 unit? That health threshold seems like a pretty neat way to power down flying units early on.
Also I would recommend making the gold mine enchanting thing less noisy. I can see that becoming grating after a while.

Yep, she is. I'll try to remove the extra sound that comes with the gold mine effect.