Melee Mapping Contest #3 - 4 vs 4

[Knecht]

@Loner-Magixxar You can, runes are used in blizz melee maps too.

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

Thanks everyone

 

[Arrr]

@Loner-Magixxar
Depends on the item really.
I've put runes of rebirth in my map too, as I don't see too much of a problem with it

 

[JaleVeliki]

can we place level 0 items on the units? (e.g. rune of rebirth)

Yes, it is allowed. Though Rune of Rebirth is quite powerful.

 

[sentrywiz]

Oh awesome so I can use runes too!

Here are my new WIP's and I've added the map into my pastebin too.



Can I use a gate? Since its breakable just like the rocks and neutrals won't destroy it,
it would serve a big purpose in my new map. Like warding off an area with very powerful
creep camps. Would also look really cool.

 

[mafe]

Basically yes, stuff like gates, bridges, runes of rebirth, dragon roosts or whatever else the editor offers by default can be used. Whether is a good idea depends on the implementation.
For 1v1, I think runes of rebirth would be a bad idea, because reasons, but for 4v4 there is generally more flexibilty.
About gates, just remember that they even when they are destroyed, they still leave a rather small (for 4v4) chokepoint behind.

 

[sentrywiz]

Basically yes, stuff like gates, bridges, runes of rebirth, dragon roosts or whatever else the editor offers by default can be used. Whether is a good idea depends on the implementation.
For 1v1, I think runes of rebirth would be a bad idea, because reasons, but for 4v4 there is generally more flexibilty.
About gates, just remember that they even when they are destroyed, they still leave a rather small (for 4v4) chokepoint behind.

In my map, I plan to use gates as warning instead of just placing a ramp or nothing.
I will put some around the level 8+ creep camps, which in my logic, would take a couple of armies
to defeat. And of course, the best stuff will be there, so choke points are also very important
strategically. If you forget to bring scrolls for example, your army is stuck there with losses
if the enemy armies are waiting outside.

So it will like ... Roshan / Nashor in a melee map? Except its not one creep, its a location with
very tough basterds. Whoever rushes first might get the goodies, but won't leave alive to tell the tale

 

[mafe]

In my map, I plan to use gates as warning instead of just placing a ramp or nothing.
I will put some around the level 8+ creep camps, which in my logic, would take a couple of armies
to defeat. And of course, the best stuff will be there, so choke points are also very important
strategically. If you forget to bring scrolls for example, your army is stuck there with losses
if the enemy armies are waiting outside.

So it will like ... Roshan / Nashor in a melee map? Except its not one creep, its a location with
very tough basterds. Whoever rushes first might get the goodies, but won't leave alive to tell the tale

Sounds good then.
Here's another WIP of mine. I suppose it is relatively close to what I will submit in the end.

 

[XanderD]

About Runes: I see no particular problem with runes. As for the runes of rebirth though - in most cases it is the biggest creep of a camp that drops the item. But a say level 5 as a reward for a camp with perhaps just 12 levels in total would be a bit big. If, on the other hand, you'd put it on a weaker creep this could be exploited by some hero that is very strong from the beginning like a Blademaster by just windwalking in and killing off this one creep and be gone before the others are hardly awake. By which I don't say that this should not be done and in fact I have done it on my map for this contest (which will probably be done by the end of the week).

About Gates: I always loved stuff like that! The biggest problem I see with this is actually when playing a map with such a feature against the AI because the computer players won't destroy a gate (on purpose). But of course that wouldn't be a problem with only Human players (and Orcs, Undead, and Night elves ). And as others mentioned before this will create a tight choke point. But this has a similar width to bridges which are used in ladder melee maps. So while this could create some issues it would not be totally unheard of. It depends on how you use this. Surprise us!

And more WIP-previews (the last one doesn't show doodads):

 

[Restor]

Is someone else than me here doing in fact map which can be used in FFA as well? Or everybody is making basically 4v4 map? (or 2v2v2v2 / 2v2v2) ?

I find it much harder to balance a FFA map than "one team vs. other team" map because there must be basically 8 balanced position for each player and it is frustrating sometimes, but I am slowly progressing.

One "atypical" thing which my map will contain is the center of the map with both fountain of health and fountain of mana together. And there are also 4 waypoint (used to be 8, but I changed my mind) around the center which will lead the army to the oposite side.

 

[XanderD]

Is someone else than me here doing in fact map which can be used in FFA as well? Or everybody is making basically 4v4 map? (or 2v2v2v2 / 2v2v2) ?

I'm really only going for 4v4, but at least in a way where basically any four starting positions in a row can be one team so that at least it won't always be a "north vs. south".

I find it much harder to balance a FFA map than "one team vs. other team" map because there must be basically 8 balanced position for each player and it is frustrating sometimes, but I am slowly progressing.

I agree. I see that as a bonus point on your behalf since this will give the players more variety.

One "atypical" thing which my map will contain is the center of the map with both fountain of health and fountain of mana together. And there are also 4 waypoint (used to be 8, but I changed my mind) around the center which will lead the army to the oposite side.

Market Square has this double fountain feature as well, but yes, it is rare. But the waypoints I'm curious about. Don't forget that these are basically choke points just like the gates mentioned a few posts before. And although there are four of them you got pretty tight entrances to your fountains, especially on the southeastern side.

 

[Restor]

Well.... now just my world editor totally fucked something and saved my map as in version from few days ago.....

Well one good thing is that I have at least one screenshot from the newest version which is lost now....

EDIT - Ok, it's not that bad as it sounds like.... maybe like 8 hours of work was lost, but thanks to that screenshot I can repair it in like two hours.

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

OK My last WIP:

It still needs some work (some terraining and some edits on the middle borders and the center of the map). But yeah, that's almost the final picture.

 

[mafe]

Me and @JaleVeliki are playtesting our mapS right now. At least if we can get hosting to work again. In case anyone wants to join us spontaneously, we are in the channel "clan gym" on US east, or you can contact us with the (clan gym) discord.

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

Hello everyone. Happy new year.

Here is my second WIP. I now have a playable map. which I hope is fun and balanced to play. I still have to test it with real players, who actually know the meta.
Otherwise I still need to do a lot of terraining and doodad placements to make the map interesting.

I do have a question: how to people feel about the marketplace building in both corners?

Any criticism and advice is welcomed.

 

[JaleVeliki]

@DuckDuckGoose
Awesome visuals. The corner fountains are my favorite part.
All gold mine creeps should have acquisition range: normal (500).

 

[Restor]

@DuckDuckGoose - well, it's still pretty empty, so there is no much to criticize yet, I would personally prefer much bigger lumber line at the bases.


My newest WIP - I am doing hills and shallow water now. Then I will put down some doodads and make various tilesets across map. So there is still much work to be done.

 

[Knecht]

Heya, I'll just put this WIP here, it's far from done but it is at least playable now. I must say the outland creeps are by far the hardest to work with imo, almost no creeps sleep at night and most of them have chaos damage. Hopefully it's not much of a deal as the creeps are more high risk - high reward. Strong early game player interaction and a punishing late game are the "theme" here.
Btw should the creeps at the shop sleep at night or does the BM windwalk not matter as much as in 1v1?

@mafe Your map looks really dope man, how did the testing go? I found that my laptop can't handle 8 players or more if they max out on units and starts to lag even in singleplayer after like 10-15 mins I guess I won't be able to test the map properly.

 

[Restor]

@Knecht - firsly, you are Czech, are you not?

Secondly - your map is showing me that it is not a meelee map. Does your world editor show it too? (it's maybe just a language issue, cos my WE is in english)

EDIT - Ok I found out, when I rename your trigger to standard english name "Melee Initialization", it is just ok

 

[mafe]

Heya, I'll just put this WIP here, it's far from done but it is at least playable now. I must say the outland creeps are by far the hardest to work with imo, almost no creeps sleep at night and most of them have chaos damage. Hopefully it's not much of a deal as the creeps are more high risk - high reward. Strong early game player interaction and a punishing late game are the "theme" here.
Btw should the creeps at the shop sleep at night or does the BM windwalk not matter as much as in 1v1?

@mafe Your map looks really dope man, how did the testing go? I found that my laptop can't handle 8 players or more if they max out on units and starts to lag even in singleplayer after like 10-15 mins I guess I won't be able to test the map properly.

Thanks! Pretty much as I intended, most of the fighting takes playce in the middle. Maybe even to much xD But I got a lot of good feedback.
Chaos damage on creeps is actually worse than normal damage for creeps, unless they hit buildings/tanks.

Also I've been beaten you to make a map named "Legions End" by almost 10 years. Sorry.

 

[Knecht]

@mafe lol, I might think of another title for my map then I still have some scrapped names like "Burning Throne" and "Legion's Demise". Legion's End rolls nicely off the tongue though.

@Restor Yup. I'll change it to Melee Latest Patch for the final version, that'll solve it.

 

[Restor]

I thought you are from CZ because of your name. I am from Slovakia btw.

 

[deepstrasz]

@Knecht - firsly, you are Czech, are you not?

How did you come to that conclusion? Doesn't that word (the name) mean servant in Dutch?

 

[XanderD]

How did you come to that conclusion? Doesn't that word (the name) mean servant in Dutch?

And in German.

@Knecht "Legion's Demise" sounds great. I also love the Felwood tileset but there will be a lot of people who will complain about all the mana burn.

 

[Restor]

I don't know a single word from Dutch, so I had no idea that that word exists in Dutch too , but because I understand czech almost perfectly, I know that Knecht means something like soldier in medieval army. Google says that it came from German origin actually. So maybe Dutch and Czech word is from the same root.

Anyway, we are OT now, that's why I am uploading another WIP.

 

[XanderD]

@Restor you probably mean the "Landsknecht" which were late medieval/early renaissance mercenaries, mostly Germans and mostly armed with pikes.

Also another WIP:

I will probably upload the map today or tomorrow.

 

[Restor]

Looks cool

Barrens?

 

[XanderD]

@Restor yes, which makes our maps look similar at the first glance. But we got a very different layout and I added some grass tiles from other tilesets to feature some oases in the center.

 

[Restor]

Well, I have yet to make tileset variations. Now it is just grass everywhere.

and of course there are almost no doodads yet.

And what is supposed to be in the center? Tavern?

 

[XanderD]

And what is supposed to be in the center? Tavern?

Nope - there are gold mines.


And here's my entry:
Golden Oases

There's also one picture attached which includes a more detailed description of this map.

 

[Restor]

List of rules for melee maps (breaking some of this rules won't set your map to custom).
- Place orange camps on player starting locations (they will be removed automatically if is player slot is not empty)"

Ehm? Orange camps? In ladder maps it is usual to have red camps on the starting locations

 

[Restor]

@XanderD - strange, in your map it is showing me that it is no meelee map

but I quite like the unorthodox starting position with two entrances against each other. So the clasical "meta" wall off wont work there.

 

[XanderD]

@XanderD - strange, in your map it is showing me that it is no meelee map

Yes, that is always the case when I pick that it should use the latest patch.

but I quite like the unorthodox starting position with two entrances against each other. So the clasical "meta" wall off wont work there.

I adressed that in my explanation. The smaller entrances can be blocked off from Heroes with one building like a Barracks/Crypt/Graveyard/Blacksmith/Ancient of War/Hunter's Hall/any Shop... while the larger one can be blocked off with the combination of an Altar, a Barracks and a Burrow (for Orcs) or an Altar, a Crypt/Graveyard and a Ziggurat (for Undead) or an Altar, an Ancient of War and a Moonwell (for Night Elves) or an Altar, a Barracks and two Farms (for Humans). So with just four usual early buildings you can still block off both entrances and will even have more room to build inside this "safe space". Of course this would leave the issue that Heroes would teleport inside this "safe space" and be stuck. But if you put the Altar next to the Barracks in the larger entrance there would be a single gap wide enough to allow a Hero through - but then also these pesky Blademasters. But these would then also have only this single escape route which could, if necessary, be blocked off by a single farm quick enough to trap that Blademaster while you could still teleport in for support and then abort the building of this farm (or whatever) to get out again quickly enough.
So yes, it is unorthodox but it is not impossible to wall off your base.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Mr.Henci

@ Everybody

I think at this point an extention is unavoidable (7 days remain, only 2 finished entries).

It may be wise to make the extention till, 15-16 jan so people can use also the sunday 13 to finish the map.

 

[Mr.Henci]

@Ragnaros17 we will see how many entries will show up till thurstday/friday.

 

[mafe]

I have my map in a state where it I could regard it as finished, or spend 10+ more hours perfectioning doodad placement. I just see no point in uploading (i.e. creating the resource) almost one week before the end, as I will keep working on it. My impression is that several of the other maps can also be finished in time.
I mean, we have planned right from the start for this contest to have more time than usual. However, if some others would think that an extension benefits the quality of the contest, then I wouldnt argue against it.

 

[Restor]

I just think that if you will allow the extension of the deadline, then it will be fair to allow the guys who already uploaded final thing to maybe improve it in the extra given time, because they were counting with the original deadline.

Just my opinion.

 

[Knecht]

Imo having only 2 entries by now doesn't prove anything about the state of other maps. Many people will submit their entry on the last day like irl.

 

[Arrr]

my map is finished gameplay-wise, I'm just placing doodads and polishing now.
I guess most entries are in this phase aswell, so for now there is no reason for an extension imo.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Ragnaros17 we will see how many entries will show up till thurstday/friday.

yup, wise idea.

I have my map in a state where it I could regard it as finished, or spend 10+ more hours perfectioning doodad placement. I just see no point in uploading (i.e. creating the resource) almost one week before the end, as I will keep working on it. My impression is that several of the other maps can also be finished in time.
I mean, we have planned right from the start for this contest to have more time than usual. However, if some others would think that an extension benefits the quality of the contest, then I wouldnt argue against it.

"I just see no point in uploading (i.e. creating the resource) almost one week before the end."

it may be wise to those who have little free time during week, and leave all to the saturday last day, it may be a lot of bad luck a file corrupt or an electric shut-down just that day.

However, if some others would think that an extension benefits the quality of the contest, then I wouldnt argue against it.""

I am not talking about quality, is just a contest can´t be ended with 2 entries, since we are 21 users, (and I was considering that during weeks activity is much less than during saturday and sunday).

I just think that if you will allow the extension of the deadline, then it will be fair to allow the guys who already uploaded final thing to maybe improve it in the extra given time, because they were counting with the original deadline.

Just my opinion.

yes Of course, if the deadline is made, updates are free to go before the "new deadline",

Imo having only 2 entries by now doesn't prove anything about the state of other maps. Many people will submit their entry on the last day like irl.

From one point of view your are right, but what I think is:
- maybe many people don´t have that free time during weeks.
- this sunday is done, so maybe some or many users just only have the saturday 12 to properly have all the day to finish the map.
- I saw things/post fast, but my impresion is that I saw maps that are, maybe far away from being finished.

but I agree with @Mr.Henci, Friday will be the day to count how many entries are to think about the deadline.

Many people will submit their entry on the last day like irl."
Internet shut-down, electric shut down, your girlfriend wants to go on a a full day trip with you, never leave things to last day, is bad luck.

my map is finished gameplay-wise, I'm just placing doodads and polishing now.
I guess most entries are in this phase aswell, so for now there is no reason for an extension imo.

Great to hear.


Just to be clear, I don´t want an extention,
but I don´t want to put preasure badly to those who didn´t finished.
or that half people may not finish the 12,
the thing is with few entries we can´t end the contest properly.

Again @Mr.Henci idea is the wiser, wait till friday and then start counting entries and ask people how are going with their maps.
I wanted to start the topic now, so it would have more views than during the week.

 

[Restor]

another WIP, still much work to be done, but it's like maybe 75 % done.

 

[fostaa]

Guys, sorry to say but I must admit I can't meet even 1% of the requirements of this contest even though I really wanted an artwork of mine to be included in the Blizzard's release.
Apparently I am too stupid to understand the rules and there are far wiser teenagers here that eventually can do better.

good LUCK to all, since I guess that's what you need most of all.

 

[Khaldaiel]

I see that some people are starting to worry about the final entries ... so I posted mine :
Scar of Northrend

Compared to the last WIP, i just did some testing and played with the doodad placement a little.

Ok, I admit, I was close to forgetting to post the final entry

 

[Loner-Magixxar]

Mine will be ready todady or tomorrow (Most likely tomorrow!)

 

[XanderD]

Guys, sorry to say but I must admit I can't meet even 1% of the requirements of this contest even though I really wanted an artwork of mine to be included in the Blizzard's release.
Apparently I am too stupid to understand the rules and there are far wiser teenagers here that eventually can do better.

good LUCK to all, since I guess that's what you need most of all.

What exactly do you mean? If there's some kind of misunderstanding maybe we can help you so that you can finish your map anyway.

I see that some people are starting to worry about the final entries ... so I posted mine :
Scar of Northrend

Compared to the last WIP, i just did some testing and played with the doodad placement a little.

Ok, I admit, I was close to forgetting to post the final entry

If this recent discussion reminded you and maybe others as well to upload and post their entries it was fruitful.
Your map certainly looks awesome!

 

[JaleVeliki]

wip 2:

Spoiler

P.S. I'm up for including Sunday for deadline extension if needed.

 

[Restor]

Well I am suprised that there are lots of map with Northrend theme

maybe that extension to the end of Sunday is not a bad idea after all, it is just one more day but in fact it is two days of weekend instead of one ,

 

[WolfFarkas]

Guys, sorry to say but I must admit I can't meet even 1% of the requirements of this contest even though I really wanted an artwork of mine to be included in the Blizzard's release.
Apparently I am too stupid to understand the rules and there are far wiser teenagers here that eventually can do better.

good LUCK to all, since I guess that's what you need most of all.

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/wip-3-jpg.311693/

eeehhh??? what???, your layout was the classic octogon, an pretty much orthodox formula. Can you explain more or show us what you have, there still time.

I screw it in an olympic way in the 2nd melee contest and here you have me, all can be fixed.

I see that some people are starting to worry about the final entries ... so I posted mine :
Scar of Northrend

Compared to the last WIP, i just did some testing and played with the doodad placement a little.

Ok, I admit, I was close to forgetting to post the final entry

great news!, thanks for put me in the credits, tile mix is awsome.

Mine will be ready todady or tomorrow (Most likely tomorrow!)

more great news!

Well I am suprised that there are lots of map with Northrend theme

maybe that extension to the end of Sunday is not a bad idea after all, it is just one more day but in fact it is two days of weekend instead of one ,

Last contest, people went more with barrens. If you see my profile, in my case Underground is my favorite tile-set.

wip 2:

P.S. I'm up for including Sunday for deadline extension if needed.

I have faith that the cavalry of mappers will reach in time.

By the way that map is a jewel looking!!

 

[Restor]

Well it seems a pretty normal 8 players meelee map to me.

Just for the certainty - every FFA map can serve as 4v4 map, so if it is the case it is no problem. My map is FFA also.


I am biggest fan of Lordaeron summer, but there are too many maps of that kind and second most favourite is barrens and third is sunken ruins

 

[Rockstar356]

Here is my entry
Cold Butterfly
Was fun! good luck to all