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Melee Mapping contest #3 - 4 vs 4

Discussion in 'The Arena' started by Mr.Henci, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Since some of us are already working on this, can you please be clearer whether it should be strictly 4v4 or free for all?
    To be honest "free for all" would be much more playable, while the specific 4v4 type (two teams with 4 players each) puts some limits on the scene and has the effect of a scenario rather than a casual map.
    So, what say you?

    (Oh, and btw, I just noticed that putting players at fixed locations will alter the "Melee" status of the map...)

    Also, another question about the screenshot(s) that we have to send in the meanwhile to prove that we're currently working on it and it's our own creation - where to upload them, how often/how many?

    Sorry for the silly questions but I prefer to ask a silly question, that may make the contest clearer for many of us, rather than staying silent :D

    Cheers.
     
  2. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    there are not silly questions, ask all you need.

    WIP question.
    only 1 enough but you can upload more to have feedback.
    There is no WIP limit, I remembered I did like 5 Wips in the last contest.
    1 Wip per day would be annoying but one wip per week seems ok,
    you can upload them when you advance significantly in the map to show the progress and ask feedback.

    Melee Mapping contest #3 - 4 vs 4

    the screenshot you can paste in the paint and then from there paste it here (in the post), you can edit the screen with many as I did. check my WIP.

    FFA and 4V4

    theme was decided by poll, 3rd Melee contest poll question
    since contest started it can´t be changed after launching the contest.
    Some rules can be discussed and maybe changed others not.
    Since the contest already s 4v4 it can´t be converted now to 8 FFA, or other category.

    (My set explain will contradict some of your statements about the 4v4 concept)
    4v4 gives much more freedom, while FFA is very exigent since every player must be balanced, simetry x8 and size must be big (never did the 8 size polygon, but I did the 6 size hexagoon and it takes more than 160x160 editor size.)

    If you do a 8 player FFA like the 8 side polygon it will work also as 4v4.
    The thing is that for an 8 FFA you need more size. A 4v4 can be done in smaller size, mine is 146x130.
    the theme is 4vs4 in my case my map won´t do for FFA, but maps will be judged as 4v4, that means that teams are balanced.

    set theory:


    upload_2018-12-5_20-13-14.png

    If the theme is EUROPE and you do Spain, is ok because Spain belongs to Europe.

    So if you do a 8 FFA it can be played as 4v4, but not all 4v4 can be played as FFA.

    Theme is 4v4 so 8 FFA are allowed and can be done and work for 4v4.
    (same thing for 2v2 x 2v2 they can be played as 4v4)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018 at 3:00 PM
  3. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Your logic about this doesn't really get me because I think the 8 FFA is the large circle. 4v4 can't be played by anything else except 4 people in a team against other 4 people in the other team.
    But if you say 8 FFA is allowed then I will choose this option because it's easier for me and I find it more casual.
     
  4. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    "I think the 8 FFA is the large circle."

    100% agree with that because simetry must be x8, all must be equal for all 8 players

    while like in the map I am doing that won´t do as FFA because players are to near each, but thats part of the fun in a 4v4


    if you do the 8 polygon (circle), it also can be played as teams battles.

    screen


    upload_2018-12-6_7-18-46.png

    or with random rotations
    upload_2018-12-6_7-21-49.png



    in a 8 FFA, it can be played as team battles, green can play against red. (the game option put teams together will put the players as near as posible so in a otogono / circle this will be the distribution.

    players more far can assist the center players to hold on. and that stuff.

    There are not much options for player distribution for 8 FFA,
    the circle / octogon
    the 2v2 x 2v2, two squares separated with a link with way gates,

    having 15 maps looking as octogons can be boring.

    with 4v4, the octogon can be done but also others distributions can be done, so more map diversity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  5. Wardota2 Gamer

    Wardota2 Gamer

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    :):D
     
  6. Rockstar356

    Rockstar356

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    Hi guys!
    Here's my WIP 1
    Screen1.JPG Screen2.JPG Screen3.JPG Screen4.JPG Screen5.JPG Screen6.JPG Screen7.JPG
     
  7. mmtt

    mmtt

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    [​IMG]
    I wanted to screenshot whole map but trees where disappearing from certain distance and creep camps looked weird and when i placed camera there was some big tree on screen.
     
  8. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    great work guys!!, nice to see layouts so differents!.

    Your words and wisdom surprised me a lot...
     
  9. Loner-Magixxar

    Loner-Magixxar

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    A half finished part of my map as a WIP.

    I'm working on a 4v4-only map. Because I think there is a reason why this contest's theme has been set to 4v4. If we were going to build an FFA, why bother to set it to 4v4? Why make a boring generic FFA when we can make cool 4v4s? My opinion though. So I totally agree with @Ragnaros17. At first I wasn't sure to take this risk, but now I'm more assured to follow my idea.

    Added another screenshot.
    This is only a fourth of the map (also unfinished) Untitled1.png Untitled.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  10. Khaldaiel

    Khaldaiel

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    Hello,

    So this is my WIP 1.

    The map is called 'Scar of Northrend' and is of size 180x180. The idea is that Illidan's spell with the eye of Sargeras opened a rift in the middle of the valley, revealing some buried treasures and parting the valley in two parts.

    It's a 4v4 map only (no FFA), because the teams are positioned on different sides of the map and the starting locations are sometimes very close to each other.

    The tiles used are currently from Northrend only, but some creeps are from Icecrown's glacier or submerged ruins.

    Here are the visuals for one quarter of the map. Once this part will be redecorated (the current tiles wre used as a help to place the elements of the map and will be removed soon), the rest of the map will be obtained through mirroring of the current quarter.
    Hive-WIP1.png Hive-WIP2.png

    The map as a whole will follow roughly this pattern :
    Hive-WIP3.png with the orange crosses representing the starting locations and the white lines representing the main paths through the map.

    The map will contain 8 natural expansions, 2 disputed expansions, 4 mercenary camps, 4 taverns, 4 fountains of health, 4 gobelin laboratorys, 4 gobelin shops, 2 markets and a blue dragon nest.

    I've also added some 'close-up' screenshots :
    Hive-WIP4.png Hive-WIP5.png Hive-WIP6.png

    I've been trying a few things I would like to hear some feedback about (if you have any).
    - By nature, the shape of the starting locations exposes one player of the team in particular. To help defend a siege, I added a small entrance in the back of his mine to allow quicker reinforcement from its allies. Of course, I've made the entrance so that it can be walled off by one supply building. I considered it an advantage in case of siege because the allies won't have to pass through the siege to help to the defence... but is that really a plus or just one more entrance to wall off at the beginning of the game :eek: ???
    - I've used an infamous formula to determine the drops of the creep camps : Total level of the creep camp = 4 * (level of the consumable dropped + level of the permanent dropped) + level of the tome dropped . Is that completely imbalance ? (if I check with blizzard maps, it looks ok to me, but maybe for competitive play it is total bullshit :/ )
    - The map basically revolves around high ground... Is it a well-known blasphemous idea to add lots of high grounds in a melee map ? :eek:
     
  11. mmtt

    mmtt

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    Base map is done, now i need to just balance it.
    Spoiler
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    that was fast!!, and also it looks awsome!!

    - By nature, the shape of the starting locations exposes one player of the team in particular. To help defend a siege, I added a small entrance in the back of his mine to allow quicker reinforcement from its allies. Of course, I've made the entrance so that it can be walled off by one supply building. I considered it an advantage in case of siege because the allies won't have to pass through the siege to help to the defence... but is that really a plus or just one more entrance to wall off at the beginning of the game :eek: ???

    If that back entrance can be exploited the enemy, kill the peons, then that user is done for.
    In bases I would sugest to be standard and do it with 1 entrance and walling option (with buildings) since that is necesary to survive.

    - I've used an infamous formula to determine the drops of the creep camps : Total level of the creep camp = 4 * (level of the consumable dropped + level of the permanent dropped) + level of the tome dropped . Is that completely imbalance ? (if I check with blizzard maps, it looks ok to me, but maybe for competitive play it is total bullshit :/ )

    this is my formula
    Green creeps level 3-6: power up only
    Green creeps level 7-9: permanent level 1 only
    Orange level 10-14: permanent level 2 (avoid teleport staff) or some charged level 2 (avoiding electric wand and sentry wards)
    Orange level 15-19: permanent level 3 or charged level 3, power up level 1 or 2 (avoid experience tome)
    Red level 20 or above: permanent level 4-5 or 6;, charged level 4-5 or 6 power up level 2 ( maybe with also tome of experience)
    for 1vs1, I heard of a limit level 26, is good to have it in mind.

    Consider this the level of the creep is no enough to decide the loot, unit skills and amount of units also will influence the dificult of a creep

    as example the dragon level 6 is more dangerous than a polar bear level 6.
    ensnare is more dangerous than slow.
    poison is bad for orcs.
    creeps without mana or spell inmunity are bad for NE and the deamon hunter.

    A creep level 19 can be better than a level 22 depending on the units used.

    - The map basically revolves around high ground... Is it a well-known blasphemous idea to add lots of high grounds in a melee map ? :eek:[/QUOTE]
    On the good side, limits the scouting option: example: put the goblin market in a hole, so if you put a farm you don´t see above.
    On the bad side, avoid towering advantage (this is not like strarcraft were you have the cliff the bunkers, the siege tanks and you hold on), a good idea is to put unbuildable tiles in the ramp and a bit above and avoid parts where you can put a tower and the enemy cant get access, a lot of ramps should help.

    by the way map looks awsome.

    @Mr.Henci

    Please check @Khaldaiel WIP link, it seems is not properly linking to his wip, instead it links to page 4.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 3:04 PM
  13. mafe

    mafe

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    From what I've seen so far the maps look good to great.
    One thing I'm slightly worried about is that some of the areas look too very narrow for 4v4. It is no fun if in a big fight, half of the players cant get their armies into a fighting position becase they are blocked by trees, cliffs or whatever else. If you look at the 4v4 maps in the current batle net map pool, then most of the paths/corridors are much wider than on 1v1 maps, so that full scale 4v4 fights are possible more or less everywhere on the map.
     
  14. SeTh_WC3

    SeTh_WC3

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    Good luck to all participants for this new contest !

    P.S : For those who participated in the last 1v1 mapping contest, the 1v1 cup that I mentioned is now confirmed and will take place on 16th of december.
    Players can register here : Warcraft III 1on1 Mapping Contest Cup #2 Europe | ESL Play
    Latest versions of the maps should be used, let me know if that is not the case.
    (I post it here because the thread of the previous contest seems to be closed now)
     
  15. mafe

    mafe

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    My first WIP:
    4v4ContestStart.png
    Great news, and thanks for the remainder!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 10:15 PM
  16. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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  17. Loner-Magixxar

    Loner-Magixxar

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    WIP 2:

    A rough overview of the map

    Map's name is Arctic Dream
     

    Attached Files:

  18. DED1

    DED1

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    Don't know if I'll find time, but I would like to join the contest. :)
     
  19. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Hey guys,

    My idea is "Burning Steppes" (name could possibly change later) and it would include a river of lava going out of our beloved Blackrock Mountain (northwest) and Dreadmaul Rock (southeast), and dividing the map into two fields.

    Here are a few screenshots about my map. You can see the tiles I am using and the neutral units that are about to be placed later.
    I think no need to mention that some things can be changed as a matter of balance.
    I would upload more screenshots later...


    WIP 1:


    WIP 1.jpg


    WIP 2:


    WIP 2.jpg


    WIP 3:


    WIP 3.jpg

     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018 at 9:30 PM
  20. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @fostaa while your idea seems cool, maybe try to reconsider it. Dungeon tileset is one of the hardest to work with and you might find yourself strugling to fill the whole 4v4 map. If you can pull it off though, that would be an achievment.

    Don't overuse the pathing blocked, you won't have space for trees. Use high variation + unbuildable tiles and definetly don't waste destructibles by putting blockers into the "out of boundaries" area.