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Melee Mapping Contest #3 - 4 vs 4

Discussion in 'Contest Archive' started by Mr.Henci, Dec 1, 2018.

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  1. Arrr

    Arrr

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    My map is done, polishing doodads and stuff.

    By the way just learned that moving a doodad with the numpad while holding ctrl allows to ignore pathing like placing them with shift would
     
  2. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    I have no idea what testing are you taloking about to be honest, so I can't hepl you with that.

    Poll will be up for around 1 month. (Everybody with Hive account can vote, participants can't vote for themselfs.)

    @Arrr glad to hear that :) didn't knew about the numpad+ctrl, nice trick.
     
  3. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Henci, who is going to evaluate the maps - that is what I am asking. Also about voting - by 'vote between the participants' I meant that a participant vote for another participant's map. But anyway - tell more about the evaluation and the approx time it would take.

    Thanks
     
  4. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    I think your map is very good (for what I saw in the screen), and I want to look it inside the editor,
    (In fact I fear that your map is that good that I may loose against you so cheers!!).


    - I imagine what you call testing is the judging or test of the judges, W3Sour and Witti are the judges of this contest because of their melee knoledge, and that may take 1 month ( last melee contest 2nd, was 1 month) but how knows maybe is much less now.


    they will see the maps / test them, and rate considering 50% balance, 35 enviroment and 15% creativity.
    -balance is all melee knoledge, loot, creeps, distances, bugs,
    -enviroment is tile mixing, doodads use and overall theme,
    -creativity goes both to balance and enviroment: new things, like new enviroment (not just another standard forest), new game-play, boats, zepellings, barricades, of course balanced.
     
  5. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @fostaa as seen in the main thread page, which you are supposed to read before joining, judges of this contest are @WTii and @W3Sour . They have as much time as they need to judge all the maps. (Aprox +1 month). All the counting will be probably done by the mod, our big brother @Naze who is overseeing the whole contest.
     
  6. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    If you or someone else have doubts about this melee contest, poll, judging, stuff, take a look to the previus ones !! they were fun too,
    the reviews of the judges can also be found there:

    1st
    [$100 Prize Pool] Melee Mapping Contest - 1v1
    [$100 Prize Pool] Melee Mapping Contest - Poll
    [$100 Prize Pool] Melee Mapping Contest - Results


    2nd
    Melee Mapping Contest #2 - 1 vs 1
    Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Poll
    Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Results
     
  7. Restor

    Restor

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    Ok, call me stupid but I didnt absolutely have an idea about that shift thing (ignoring pathing) :-D

    Too late to fix my map now I guess :-d

    Well maybe I knew it, but like in 2009 or so and I forgot
     
  8. Restor

    Restor

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    Ok I uploaded it here Desert Mirage

    Hope that everything is OK :p

    Strange thing is that the preview here on hive is not showing the starting location of the yellow player but ingame it's normal

    EDIT - ok thats bug not just in my map but in almost every entry :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  9. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

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    Finally, my entry is done! Here: Nerubian Passage

    Please note that map description will be constantly updated.
    Additional updates/fixes in balance/art/doodad placement will be done over the next few days.
    Thanks for the extension! :)
     
  10. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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  11. Arrr

    Arrr

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    This is my entry

    Hopefully everything works ok.

    EDIT: aaaand already had to patch to 1.1

    Edit 2 : I suggest also using the Object Manager to check out the maps, especially for items. Helps getting through things faster and cleaner.


    While I'm at it I thought I'd share some thoughts regarding my map, in case someone had nothing better to do.

    Comment


    Map process and thoughts:

    Themewise, I wanted to use Lordaeron Winters blue-ish terrain palette without the snow, but having only dirt and grass to work with I had to start using shallow water, and since there was yet not enough terrain diversity, I decided to experiment mixing in Dlaran Ruins tiles. That's where the theme and name of the map come from, Northmarsh Ruin.

    Onto the real process - Having had little time to prepare like I usually do, I decided to go for a simple Timbermaw Hold style map with all players of each team cramped in a "common" starting area, without having to think too much about mirrored distances from creeps and objectives.
    With this starting positions layout, I went for a top left to bottom right symmetry, but a top right to bottom left asymmetry.
    This allowed me to have in the map some of the things I absolutely wanted in it: single impactful merc camps (lord Fall has bloodlust, northrend has some really interesting units aswell) and a single goblin lab, along with a "personal" fountain for each team, and I'd say most defining strong item drops.

    Due to the hard to break bases and fountains I decided to go for low expo goldmines (8500 - 9500 - 10500), given the lower "defense cost" (easier to defend main bases and natural expos being close to them, fountain lowering healing and retraining costs).
    This also brings the problem of lower personal initiative/impact with the safe bases making harras less effective, and skirmishes nullified by founts.

    Uninteractive gameplay could also be incentivized by the worth of item drops in the map, with mayor camps being in the "outskirts".
    At least the number of impactful drops can lower the value of the Marketplace a little bit.

    The map has 6 red camps, 3 in each top right/bottom left corner. Given this decentralization of important camps, I had to put in some "dummy" ones. There are 4 poison camps that only drop lv2 active and lv2 charged, and 2 camp with a rune of healing (250) and lv2 active (the latter 2 being in the bottom left area of the map can at least help woth creeping the red camps around).

    Also to avoid having too many items drop, I decided to have 2 of the red camps (top right) drop a rine of rebirth, that will give the player a lv6 siege golem.
    Hopefully these will not be Too problematic, especially with some kind of dreadlord rush, or perhaps a t2 all in abusing some kind of merc camp timing.

    To lower the chances of a team getting both the runes of rebirth, this area of the map (top right) is liked to the middle by a gateway.
    This is also needed to make the map feel less "wide", to give better acess to the northrend merc camp and marketplace, and to give more weight to the middle of the map.
    This area would otherwise have little weight objective wise, being good only as a start and the 2 shops.



    To summarise, my main concern regarding the map is it only playing either as a timing push, or mass creep and go for a lategame allin.

     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  12. mmtt

    mmtt

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  13. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  14. fostaa

    fostaa

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    Good luck to everyone
     
  15. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Thanks everybody who finished theirs entry. The contest is over! :)

    EDIT: Here is the ZIP with the all final entries. Hope everything is ok. Poll thread should be up tomorow. See you there ;)
     

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  16. XanderD

    XanderD

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    I gathered some overview statistics of the contest maps:

    map name map creator Creeps Creep Food Expansions Total Gold
    Arctic Dream @Loner-Magixxar 379 982 16 300 000
    Burning Steppes @fostaa 430 1264 24 576 000
    Cold Butterfly @Rockstar356 104 282 10 241 000
    Desert Mirage @Restor 307 782 16 300 000
    Frostfloe Deep @Ragnaros17 210 534 9 232 000
    Frozen Peak @mmtt 338 1028 18 375 000
    Golden Oases @XanderD 257 592 12 270 000
    Legion's Demise @Knecht 100 260 12 283 000
    Nerubian Passage @JaleVeliki 226 626 8 225 000
    Northern Felwood @mafe 212 450 8 205 000
    Northmarsh Ruin v1.1 @Arrr 198 482 11 186 500
    Scar of Northrend @Khaldaiel 259 829 10 252 000
    Taken City @DuckDuckGoose 214 561 12 252 000
    Treacherous Waters @Ascrelle 176 376 8 300 000
    Underground Fortress (8) @sentrywiz 502 1330 22 6 300 000
    Average Average 260.8 691.9 13.1 686 500
    (285 535.7)

    (The gold average within brackets is without the extreme value of Underground Fortress)


    While this table is not supposed tell you what would be ideal these are some indicators about how the gameplay would turn out. More expansions means more gold influx at a given time - meaning, if every player has a safe expansion and maybe some even have a second they get a lot of gold and will probably break upkeep sooner in the game. So more expansion gold mines can lead to larger armies at an earlier stage and perhaps also more gameplay toward securing more expansions instead of early teching. This is neither right or wrong - just different. Also a large number of creeps and their levels means more experience and generally also more items. The more experience and items you can get on a map the more are players inclined to go for triple Hero strategies. I only used the total food of all creeps instead of the total level because I could get the total food consumption easily from the Object Manager. I could have selected all units on the map but selecting this many units usually causes me trouble - and I just didn't sum up from the unit list in the object manager. If someone else is willing to give me the numbers for the total creep levels of all these maps, I will put these in this table with pleasure. Note that I did not include the creeps at the starting positions.
     
  17. I laughed. Its true. In my defense, only 6 gold mines add up to 6kk gold.
    However while gold might be near infinite in my map, lumber is not.

    Also I maxed out the limit on the creeps. Seeing the data, only two maps
    have a huge number of creeps, mine is one.


    Note: I didn't put creeps where the players are.. is that necessary?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2019
  18. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    to play 3v3 or 2v2 yes, but all maps are going to be tested and reviewed as 4v4 so in my opinion it shouldn´t be a problem.
     
  19. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Yes because if the map is not being played by 8 players, the mines where players are not spawned, there are no guardians (neutral hostile units). In 1v1 maps, it doesn't matter because, no melee map is supposed to be played by less than 2 players.
     
  20. DuckDuckGoose

    DuckDuckGoose

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    I have a question about the testing. Is is possible to get to get an in-depth review of our maps? Like what needs more works etc?
    Also will @WTii be testing our maps on stream? That would be dope.
     
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