1. Head to the 33rd Modeling Contest Poll and drink to your heart's desire.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Choose your means of doom in the 17th Mini Mapping Contest Poll.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. A slave to two rhythms, the 22nd Terraining Contest is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. The heavens smile on the old faithful. The 16th Techtree Contest has begun.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The die is cast - the 6th Melee Mapping Contest results have been announced. Onward to the Hive Cup!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. The glory of the 20th Icon Contest is yours for the taking!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Reforged Warcraft III Reforged - Community Feedback

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Archian, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. Jumbo

    Jumbo

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,296
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I think that people are generally satisfied with a graphics buff and therefore focus on the aspects that appear more contested - gameplay for instance.
     
  2. Archian

    Archian

    Site Director

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Resources:
    12
    Skins:
    1
    Tutorials:
    11
    Resources:
    12
    For those of you that think the old game looks "better": I respect your opinion, like Pete Stilwell said. The original Warcraft art style was based on Samwise Didier's style. Didier's greatly exaggerated physiques and vibrant, bright color style. If you prefer that you can still play with the old graphics. The developers didn't want to divide the community so they made that available within Reforged :)

    I personally really like the new stylized but realistic art style they are going for. It's the face lift that Warcraft needed. True to the Warcraft style. So thanks Brian Sousa (Lead Artist for Warcraft 3: Reforged) and the rest of the art team :)
     
  3. Blackcat

    Blackcat

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    245
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    When you mentioned Samwise Didier it just reminded me of al the photo's of Didier in Warcraft III. Wonder what they'll do to that.. lol.
     
  4. stan0033

    stan0033

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Resources:
    16
    Models:
    4
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    1
    Skins:
    2
    Maps:
    7
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    16
    • EDITOR: let us pause/resume, restart the map with triggers.
     
  5. Sieben

    Sieben

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    656
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Of course, those who don't like the new style will be able to switch back to the old graphics, and it was thoughtful of Blizzard to allow this. :)
    However, these players will have to pay the same amount of money if they want to enjoy all Reforged features, without having the benefits of a nice visual update. And I think most if not all people would appreciate some graphics upgrade (I would), but many just don't like this particular style. Therefore, I think it's a bit harsh for these people who are being asked to just switch to the old graphics when they would have appreciated a visual upgrade - but not this one.

    If it were up to me, I would rather have a more realistic or semi-realistic game (though I like Warcraft III stylized style), like Warcraft II or the early WoW. But I would have been delighted with Warcraft III stylized style. However, Blizzard decided to create something in-between. Some units body parts and armour pieces are rather realistic, some aren't at all. Thus units proportions are very uncanny, and it feels really weird, in my opinion. As I said in another thread, it's a matter of taste, I suppose.
    But I wouldn't say it is "true to the Warcraft style". It is true to the style since MoP, like the devs said. Never, in the history of Warcraft franchise, characters had such absurd proportions before WoW, more specifically MoP. And it is definitely not true to the style of the game that is being remastered, which is a bit sad, in my opinion.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited about Reforged, but campaigns are changing, style is changing, audio is changing, and I'm worried about the game beeing not Warcraft III anymore but some WoW spin-off or something like that. Besides, I'm also a bit annoyed that the style of the franchise changes all the time, a bit of consistency would have been welcome.

    Anyway, Reforged is still a work in progress (Pete Stilwell said he wasn't very happy with the terrain and some human units needed a bit of tweaking), so we'll see what awaits us. :)
     
  6. Veronnis

    Veronnis

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    259
    Resources:
    7
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    1
    Maps:
    4
    Resources:
    7
    I assume those areas have yet to be thoroughly worked on by developers. Maybe it should be brought up though, I had just assumed that was for the moment left behind so they could get the full mission up for blizzcon.
     
  7. DemonHunter13

    DemonHunter13

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    70
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    7) ORIGINAL LORE AND SETTING - NO TO RETCONS

    I dearly hope and pray that stick to the original story with much to the Outland storylines in Warcraft 3, and NOT the ridiculous retcons that WoW:BC did to it.
    I hope In WC3:Reforged, Illidan takes over the BLACK CITADEL from Magtheridon.

    A demonic fortress of Magtheridon in Outland, the BLACK CITADEL, (Original Warcraft 3)
    and NOT as a retconned "Black Temple" that used to be like a church for the Draenei or whatever. (WoW retcon)

    Speaking of the Draenei:
    I hope the draenei race here in the upcoming WC3:Reforged are still what they are truly in Warcraft 3, in which are like the orcs who are shamanistic race and are all natively born from Draenor itself (Original Warcraft 3)

    and NOT as a bunch of retconned weird space goats race that came from another planet that somehow are related to the Eredar demons, such as Archimonde and Kil'jaeden??? What??? (WoW retcon)

    Outland Map Setting:
    I hope the map geography of the original Outland layout in the WC3 loading screen is still the same as what it will be in WC3:Reforged, and NOT as the retconned map geography in WoW: BC with places like Zangarmarsh, or Nagrand, or Terrokar, or whatever.

    Other than the fact that Warcraft 3 Outland is the ORIGINAL setting; Outland is suppose to be portrayed as a shattered remains of a dead planet floating in space. In terms of comparison, Warcraft 3 Outland map and tilesets makes a lot more sense for a destroyed planet, than WoW: retconned Outland.



    8) BROKEN ISLES - SUNKEN RUINS TILESET

    I dearly hope that the tileset for the Broken Isles missions in the WC3: Reforged would still be the same as in the original Warcraft 3 tileset of the SUNKEN RUINS. (IMO, the best tileset of Warcraft 3)

    With all the jungle tropical trees, deep blue waters, sandy beaches, and with the great touch of a mossy ancient elvish ruins that came out from the deep.

    Not only that it is the most relaxing and peaceful looking tileset for the eyes in Warcraft 3, but also it makes much more sense for an ancient ruin site that was raised from the bottom of the ocean by Gul'dan in Warcraft 2.

    With Gul'dan only raising the broken isles from the sea in Warcraft 2 (INCLUDING SURAMAR) in just a nearly 20 year gap to Warcraft 3,
    I dearly hope that there will be NO weirdly looking hidden city, or lost civilization that secretly survived after 10k years, like maybe some asspull weirdly looking night elves, or a different breed of tauren or whatever that came in just like a Randy Orton, RKO - FROM OUTTA NOWHERE!....

    Oh wait... -_-
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  8. Veronnis

    Veronnis

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    259
    Resources:
    7
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    1
    Maps:
    4
    Resources:
    7
    Additional Appreciated changes:

    Allow unit movespeed to surpass 522.
    Allow a GUI function that can play a sound file based off a string. (Sound - Play: PlayerName.mp3)
    Design a function that will allow for the creation of random stat items.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  9. Dr. Benevolent Guy

    Dr. Benevolent Guy

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Warcraft 3 Reforged Wish-list: (Ambitious me. XD)
    1. Consistent UI; new and improved icons, model, and spell animation (except the Resurrection Ability of Arthas which is awesome.)
    2. New Campaigns that is tailored to WOW Lore starting from WOW Vanilla to Battle for Azeroth and future Releases(in a form of Campaign DLC, if all campaigns are free then it is much loved and preferred.)
    3. New and improved World Editor with removed limitations with additional tools, custom video support, C++ or JAVA support for triggers, AI, Custom Spells, etc. (Hope that they won't make the same mistake that they did to Starcraft II Editor)and Custom Models like the ability to import 3DSMax, Blender, etc. models and textures directly to the Editor.
    4. New playable races such as the Naga, etc. just like in WOW. (Optional because balancing is never easy job.)
    5. Maintained Offline and LAN Playability even if is integrated with Battle.net Launcher
    6.
    Just like in MOBAs and the Like.
    7. Game Optimizations and Map Code Optimizations.
    8. Same System requirements with the Classic. (If possible.)

    Many More. What do you think guys?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  10. paulH

    paulH

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Resources:
    10
    Models:
    10
    Resources:
    10
    Some basic tutorials for more advanced tools in the World Editor would be nice.

    And adding the demo campaign missions to the core campaign is essential!
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  11. stan0033

    stan0033

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Resources:
    16
    Models:
    4
    Icons:
    1
    Packs:
    1
    Skins:
    2
    Maps:
    7
    Spells:
    1
    Resources:
    16
    These. I support.
    more:
    A way to dock modules and/or make them tabbed to the side and move the minimap to the right
     
  12. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    15,310
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    You're hoping and praying too much. They said they will connect Warcraft III to WoW. Sadly, that means a lot of those things you've mentioned would be how you (and me) won't want them to be.
    Maybe, they'll hint at the Void Elves too :D Let's prepare a cringebag.
     
  13. zarpalasjohn

    zarpalasjohn

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    94
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I would like a re-join system.
    Because in case of an internet disconnection the other players cannot rejoin again and the game is ruined after that.
     
  14. Jumbo

    Jumbo

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,296
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Those of us old enough to know how much Warcraft lore and style changed between Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 won't be as upset by integration into early Wow lore. Let's face it: Orcs in war1&2 were just bloodthirsty monsters while Wc3 changed that with a story about corruption making them monsters in the first place.
    I personally don't mind some changes to the original if it means a more meaningful story. Honestly, I'm not - and neither should anyone else +25 of age be - as impressed by Warcraft lore as I used to be as a kid.
    There are indeed some moments of greatness: The fall of Arthas, The rise of the uncorrupted horde under Thrall and Gromm, the recorruption of the latter, and the battle for Mount hyjal, amongst others.

    However, even some of the loved moments have poorly written flaws. For instance, why does Arthas - a son of the capable king Terenas - not for 1 moment reflect on his own actions? - this is simply poor writing by young gamer developers who should have let a proper writer take over.

    Same goes for ogre alliance with the horde. Honestly, why the heck did the ogres (and forest trolls for that matter) suddenly leave the Horde after Warcraft 2? This is something they should explain properly with extra content in Reforged.
    And this can be said in so many other instances as well: Maeiv - seriously does she have a life beside "Illidan, Illidan, Illidan". Childish, one-dimensional writing. It was epic as a 12 year old in the early 00s, but today we have complex story fantasy like GoT and so expect a bit more.


    Blizzard are known to dwell on childish good/evil dichotomies in their lore. This was alright when Blizzard was a medium sized developer consisting of geeks in their 20s/early 30s but this is not acceptable any longer after 16-17 years. Therefore: added flavour/lore dialogues to the original campaigns and new custom campaigns would make sense to flesh things out a bit.
    Something to bridge the gap between Wc2&3 especially is in order.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  15. Whisper

    Whisper

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    377
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I would love to see new heroes in tavern :)
    Ogre one...
     
  16. paulH

    paulH

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    139
    Resources:
    10
    Models:
    10
    Resources:
    10
    Something else to consider:

    Add mini-races to certain campaign maps. On some missions you have to fight one of the core factions, but there is often a big creep base around for a specific enemy. You could make mini-factions from some of those creep bases. For example, Blizz mentioned the murlocs on one of the missions. Give them a handful of buildings and a couple of different units, and they can function as a proper enemy to destroy rather than some sparse npcs to slap. Obviously this idea isn't just for murlocs, but for various creep enemies ingame, such as the Nerubians during the TFT Arthas campaign.
     
  17. DemonHunter13

    DemonHunter13

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    70
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0

    You know, most of us are all hyped by Warcraft 3:Reforged regardless of what it may be or not... We all want to see, buy and try it, and it is that excitement and interest why we all have this community and all, making suggestions of what should or should not...

    but then again, if all else fails in what we hope and expect Reforged would be; if lets say they do make it as a WoWcraft 3 game rather than as a Warcraft 3 (especially with regards to the lore/story)...
    We can ALWAYS fall back into the original Warcraft 3 nonetheless. A timeless treasure for each of us that will surely never be influenced by any taint of WoW.

    They can do whatever they may with Reforged, and even make it more like as a WoW game than a Warcraft game if they want, BUT surely our original Warcraft 3 (and 1 & 2 as well) will never be changed.

    Then again, Mr. Pete Stillwell seems to be a pretty cool guy. He seems to be smart, considerate and passionate person, especially with regards to studying all what is in the original Warcraft 3, to how it is going to be brought up in Reforged. So we will see by then....


    PS: Void Elves? ah! you mean those weird space goth Dormammu-worshipping elves in WoW? Never thought the legendary heroine Alleria Windrunner of Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal would be one of them... lol
     
  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    15,310
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Actually. They were seen like that only in Orcs & Humans (maybe because the story played more from the human perspective). The Orcs & Humans manual depicts the orcs as barbarians/savages and it is written from Garona's perspective which was a member of the Shadow Council which means the story isn't being totally impartial. However she informs about this:
    "Our destiny concerning the domination over these lands has been foretold by the clan mystics for hundreds of years."
    Proof of barbarism:
    "Still we craved more, and decades of constant bickering between clans served to divide our race amongst itself. Soon factions arose, each seeking to control the Orcish domain for themselves. These petty arguments turned to armed conflict, and then to war as the need for conquest burned hot in out blood. If no lands existed that were ruled by enemies, then we would take the lands of our brethren."
    So the Warlocks:
    "It was during a period of research that the small tear in the dimensional fabric was noticed."
    and then:
    "More and more warriors were brought through the rift, and with them seemed to come the essence of our world. The Warlocks claimed it was some effect of the portal, but the lands about our entryway soon became as desolate as those of our home." (which means Draenor was already a wasteland by the time they got to Azeroth or it was even a wasteland natively)
    and Blackhand was not a puppet but actually a smart leader.
    And there was no Sargeras or demon control back then. The Warlock's description says they are the ones controlling demons :p Medivh was some sort of end of days Moses.
    Of course, the story is well played this way as things were supposed to develop later which they did in Warcraft II where you actually find out how all things were connected. Who the mysterious woman was (Medivh's mother), why he had nightmares during sleep, why he had the immense power burst which killed his father and sent Medivh into deep sleep, why basically he warned Wrynn III about the coming six years and disappeared.
    The mysterious woman returns after the orcs start appearing and Llane becomes king to tell him that she intended for Medivh to be a protector but it failed due to other forces intervening and taking control of her son. She faced Medivh and he banished her making her unable to come fight him again (restraining order :D). She even told Llane that Medivh was responsible for the orcs coming to Azeroth:
    "During the battle with his father, he inadvertently opened a gateway to the domain that they, and many other foul creatures, call home. The Orcs are disciples of chaos, however, and not even Medivh has the power to control them."

    The Warcraft II manual introduced their "good" side which was turned to evil because of Gul'dan and his allegiance to Kil'jaeden. The story is told from Gul'dan's perspective.
    Blackhand was not such a great orc anymore. He was blackmailed by Gul'dan because he helped to put him in charge. I guess, they did this to make Orgrim shine as a great orc instead.
    "Even the great War Chief Blackhand was eventually destroyed as his ultimate victory drew near, betrayed by his servant Orgrim Doomhammer."
    Even Kil'jaeden was afraid of Medivh that Gul'dan could not contact him anymore when Medivh joined minds with Gul'dan:
    "I sought the counsel of Kil’jaeden, but he refused to answer my summons. Somehow I knew that he had forsaken his students because he was afraid of this Medivh."
    There's no mention of the Draenei being otherworldly or how they even looked like but that they were all decimated by the orcs:
    "Like an elemental force of havoc and destruction we thundered through the lands of the Draenei devastating all that we beheld. Not one life was spared. No building was left standing. The only traces of their existence were the blood-soaked fields they had worked for nearly five thousand years and the rank, acrid smell of the huge victory fires that consumed the bodies of their young. The Draenei were a weak people - hardly worth the effort of our raiding sweep."
    This sentence in particular is interesting:
    "Though I remained with my people on the dark, red world of the Draenei, I soon learned to project myself into the depths of the Twisting Nether, being driven nearly mad by the whispering chaos contained therein." (whose planet was it again? Did the orcs come to it? It is not explained; the orcs seemed to be there at least for some time?)
    but then:
    "The destruction of the Draenei left nothing upon which the great beast of war- could feed. After centuries of violence and warfare, we had finally conquered the whole of our world." (it doesn't make sense for the planet to be called, by the orcs, based on the Draenei if they were not natives of it)
    Here, Draenor was dying so it wasn't a wasteland from the start (as Orcs & Humans might've implied). The world was dying of too much war and destructive living from what I gathered. The manual states about things happening before Tides of War. In the game, you see that the world is actually dying (in the true sense) because of the many rifts (it was mostly Ner'zhul and co who did it).

    Anyways, the point is, few retcons in Warcraft II, more in Warcraft III, more than you can digest in WoW.
    So, they were barbaric in the first RTS game, under indirect demonic influence in Warcraft II and direct one (demon's curse) in Warcraft III. Change upon change.
    Because Arthas was meant to be a young and arrogant person. It was the Culling of Stratholme that turned him insane. The things he had to go through changed him. We was so filled with rage and want for vengeance that he didn't think clearly anymore. All he had in mind was to kill Mal'Ganis. Little did he know what was actually going to happen afterwards... (just my two cents).
    I guess, this is actually just a gameplay/design choice. They kept the troll and exchanged the Ogre with the Tauren.
    The Horde was disbanded after it lost the war on Draenor and Azeroth. The Horde we see in Warcraft III is Thrall's and well, storywise he could've gotten the Ogres back, I guess, but maybe they didn't want to get back anymore. Sure, there could have been an explanation. As for the trolls, I don't know, maybe the same thing. It's weird that in the Orc campaign we get to kill Ogres and non-Darkspear Trolls (again, gameplay element; introducing creatures etc.).
    You have to understand the audience Blizzard games are for... Besides, I would be more pissed on Tyrande frankly than Illidan, at least firstly. I understand the reasons. Illidan is one of the biggest night elven traitors of all time. And Maiev was a radical. Illidan was still supposed to do time, maybe for eternity? Moreover, having Illidan free would have been problematic to the night elves in many ways since he could have gone mental anytime while the Well of Eternity was still there.
    As how Grom got to Azeroth and didn't die in the incursion of the heroes in the last mission of Beyond the Dark Portal and stuff like that.
     
  19. SpiritTauren

    SpiritTauren

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    208
    Resources:
    2
    Icons:
    1
    Skins:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    Please, make at least all the original GUI scripting Event-Condition-Action blocks retro-compatible (and the way variables are managed). It will save thousands of hours of work for me and other fellow map creators.
     
  20. Jumbo

    Jumbo

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,296
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    good points, deepstrasz.

    Still I think Arthas' turn to evil is too sudden ingame. Once he has Frostmourne, I can totally accept that its corruption dramatically changes him, but until that point there is so much that is forced.

    A really gripping version of the story of Arthas would be where he actually made peace with Uther, his father the king, and allowed his men to go home on the ships but remained with his loyal remaining forces. This would be a better story since Arthas wouldn't seem madly obsessed even at a very early point, instead making him a thoughtful, self-sacrificing prince, only wanting to improve his lands until finally, under desperate circumstances with his few remaining men lured into a trap by Mal'Ganis, the sword Frostmourne appears to be his only chance of salvation.

    On that note, there is a logical flaw in the story with regards to Uther. How can a seasoned paladin, who's seen his fair share of betrayal and bleakness during the Second War, not use his head to realise the dangers of the plague? While it makes sense that he isn't happy about killing civilians, he should know that Arthas isn't doing it for fun, but to purge the otherwise unsaveable to save countless others. I think this is a serious flaw in the writing: Uther could at least have followed Arthas from afar, realising his own mistake when Mal'Ganis turned the remaining citizens into murderous zombies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018