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State of the Union (Warcraft III)

Discussion in 'Patch Discussion' started by StoPCampinGn00b, May 13, 2017.

  1. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

    Community Manager

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    You are free to copy and paste it as long as you give proper credit and have an easy to view link to the thread :)
     
  2. Wardota2 Gamer

    Wardota2 Gamer

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    Thank you very much StoPCampinGn00b don't worry I will give you all the credits in my website
     
  3. moyackx

    moyackx

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    Why this guy have wrote this?? sound a little bit pedantic...
     
  4. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

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    Because Wardota2 Gamer asked about posting it to their blog prior to the edit. It's common courtesy to write a note for others that may ask the same thing.
     
  5. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    What's weird about giving credit/sources?

    "Should have"? He was, AFAIK...

    But yeah, I hear ya; the bottom rows are full by now. That's why we use the top 3... And/or, utilize a specialty "expanded Tavern". ; )
     
  6. moyackx

    moyackx

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    Nothing, just that it's something that should be logic or obvious to do without the need of mention it.
     
  7. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    I'm so excited honestly i started playing melee again with friends, not sure about returning to modding yet though, they'd have to increase the already powerful editor somehow for me to decide to return
     
  8. Paillan

    Paillan

    Map Reviewer

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    How about the increase in map size from 8 mb to128 mb though?
     
  9. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

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    (I feel like I've made too many patch threads, so I figured I'd just tack this one onto this thread.)

    Hive's Host Bot Stance


    "Host bots have helped keep the remaining custom game community alive, but hinders any possible growth. It has its upsides, but ultimately secludes people that don't know how to use them. Most people don't know that you have to use 3rd party tools or websites to navigate the custom games scene more effectively, thus hosting should be user hosted. Bots in general are also the main reason for the spamming of chat channels, along with making the custom game list cluttered with mostly the same games from auto-hosting groups. It was easier to join active lobbies before the days of bots. Should a massive influx of players return to the game, its in the best interest of the playerbase to allow easier navigation of games and the allowance for easy hosting without the need to use 3rd party tools or websites."

    "Bots should not be removed unless there is an official replacement to allow easier hosting, ease of finding games, and better ping."

    Bot Pros:
    1. Better ping, ability to adjust latency
    2. Manual regulation of hackers, trolls, and leavers
    3. Allowance of stat tracking, useful for custom game leagues and tournaments
    4. Useful commands for both the host and other players
    5. Bots can act as a function to manage a community in chat or clan channels
    6. Allow for cross-realm players to play a game together

    Bot Cons:
    1. Contributes to spam of both chat channels and the custom game list (there are many empty lobbies auto-hosted by bots that stay empty or take 45+ minutes to fill)
    2. Prioritizes the need to use 3rd party tools are websites to find games and host games
    3. Causes people that don't know about bots to have a difficult time finding and hosting games successfully
    4. Alienates anyone coming back to the game, or new players coming in, hindering any growth on activity
    5. It makes it hard on map makers to test their maps on battle.net quickly, as there is often a tedious process to add maps to bot communities
    6. Bot hosted games do not allow for a game to be saved and loaded afterwards

    With Battle.net 2.0 integration on its way, bots are likely to not work on the new platform. Battle.net 2.0 will take care of the lag and hackers. It also eliminates any of the cons. The downside is obvious, bot hosting communities for custom games will take a hit. While this is a significant chunk of the community, it's not the priority to keep 3rd party bots running. Nearly all of the ladder community would like to see bots gone due to spam, and the custom game community is definitely split on it.

    Personally, from my observations, I'd say that custom gamers have the stance of 55% not in favor bots vs 45% in favor of bots. The guesstimate was given after looking at many wc3 forums and discords for their opinions. However, with the fixes probably on the way, the super majority should be okay with the removal of bots if Battle.net 2.0 fixes problems that bots temporarily fix as 3rd party tools.

    It is unclear if 2.0 will exactly be like SC2's, which of course had its own cons during its early days which have since been fixed. But note that the goal with battle.net 2.0 is not to remove host bots, but it's simply to upgrade the online platform all across the board.

    Related links:
    State of the Union (Warcraft III) Warcraft 3 patch news, future remaster and free version, public test realm
    The Future of Warcraft See attached file for bot info
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topic/20754875646#post-4
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  10. Apheraz Lucent

    Apheraz Lucent

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    You forgot a few very important cons and pros.

    +Bots allow for cross-realm players to play a game together.
    -Bot hosted games do not allow for a game to be saved and loaded afterwards.

    I disagree on your cons #3, #4 and #5, respectively.
    #3 - I've yet to see someone who isn't introduced with bots so far. They've became a standard on their own (fortunately or not).
    #4 - Care to elaborate? Sounds very non-concise and not easy to understand the point.
    #5 - MMH takes from a day to a week to implement a map in their database, ENT takes up to a day from my experience. Both sites take very little to no work done to suggest a map to be added.

    My personal opinion on bot is in their favor. They gave more than they could ever possibly take, even at the cost of some of joy. On the other hand, the "Bot Race", which is when certain communities (ENT in particular) refuse to delete or remove their bots who host games that are never played just so they can have more bots than other hosting communities and therefore establish a self-proclaimed monopoly where nobody actually wins, but everyone is at a loss (players the most), is just awful.

    I'd like a SC2 hosting system which excludes bots, but allows players who can't normally host to be able to bypass it.
     
  11. StoPCampinGn00b

    StoPCampinGn00b

    Community Manager

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    @Apheraz Lucent
    #3 - I often get returning players joining the clan, or people on other forums, without a clue of how to use bots. Public chat channels also have people without a clue as well.
    #4 - I explained it in the top paragraph. Basically, a new player comes in and sees all these empty lobbies or DotA and legion TD spam. This is very discouraging for new players to find all these empty lobbies and little variety.
    #5 - Well that ain't a disagreement, that's just more detail :]

    This is my personal opinion as well before the BNet 2.0 news.
     
  12. moyackx

    moyackx

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    Then, according of the reality seen in actual WC3 melee tournaments like the ones hosted by W3arena, this will bring a parallel world and conveniences that could separate more and more Blizzard from its final users. Then Blizzard will have a real clash with this well formed melee players.

    I hope to get wrong. But that's the consequence of left alone a community for many years.
     
  13. Apheraz Lucent

    Apheraz Lucent

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    That's yet to be seen. Us from melee community will pretty much have to react accordingly to things happening, but what I'm certain of is that inevitably we'll manage - having our own realm or not.
     
  14. A]mun

    A]mun

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    Props to MakeMeHost, which basically offers hosting on demand. I also can do a quick browser check to see if any desirable games are currently hosted < such a nice bonus!
    I really dislike the spaming of empty lobbies 24/7 (like SCN mentioned, DotA and LegionTD are abusing this WAY too much). This, for me, results in avoiding the ingame lobby browser altogether.

    What the game really needs, are more maps that offer longterm entertainment.
     
  15. Apheraz Lucent

    Apheraz Lucent

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    It's a bit sad that current map searching is dreadful even for a 15+ years old game. It refreshes once per 5 seconds to load 20 or so random maps from entire pool.

    This is something I'm looking forward for BNET2 to compete with, if nothing else.
     
  16. Dat-C3

    Dat-C3

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    If Blizzard doesn't add multi-server hosting, in-game control of the lag window and delay/latency, server access for storage and loading of information when they "accidently" destroy bots then Battle.net WC3 will be dead for custom games because they'll lose their community since enough people will leave to start their own battle.net and eventually everyone else will join meaning Blizzard will finally be out of the picture for good which could be a good thing however it looks like Blizzard finally cares so hopefully they are paying attention because their player base aka community isn't stupid. Luckily WC3 isn't a server-based game. =)

    Ah about hackers, if it can be read then it can be hacked. They'll never stop hackers, nobody will for at least another 100 years if not longer. That's the most important three that must be added before upgrading their b.net which is latency control, multi-server hosting, server access for storage/loading, without it they effectively deal the finishing blow on Blizzard WC3 multiplayer.
     
  17. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    They will probably remove servers. It makes no sense to keep 4 different servers, 2 of which are just for the USA, in a game with only a few thousand players.

    Host robots only really took off due to IPv4 being such a mess. If people did not have to use NATs then everyone could host.

    They cannot stop people hacking immediately, but they can detect people hacking and bad them, stopping them from making hacking gains in the long run.

    Blizzard monitors background applications among many of their methods to detect hacks.
     
  18. Kaijyuu

    Kaijyuu

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    Notably I was able to test my maps on bnet using ENT. Map seemed to be approved instantly; I don't think they have any vetting process.



    Wc3's custom game listing has always been garbage and the bots have alleviated much of the problem. I'll be fine with getting rid of them if and only if Blizz implements proper game searching and includes important information like the host's name and the state of the lobby. Oh, and host powers (kicking/muting) would be awfully nice too though that's more icing than cake.

    Seriously, why did they never think to add a way to search for maps by name, or filter out maps by name, or at least view every available map being hosted?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  19. Bribe

    Bribe

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    I would love to see new natives added to eliminate the need for many of these systems required, such as Bonus stats/GetUnitArmor/SetUnitType/GetUnitDamage.

    EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_DAMAGED would be great.

    OnMissileLaunch also great.

    Moving special effects, trackables, playing Special Effect animations, lots of room to improve. It just depends on how much time they spend on it and if adding natives is even on their list.

    If they add new natives, I'll take up modding again.
     
  20. WhiteFang

    WhiteFang

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    uhm,am I the only that thinks this isn't a good idea?.
    IMO,this will only split the fanbase,the thing that has kept the game alive all along.There will be those who stick with the original,and those who buy the remaster will move on to it and leave the original.I know for a fact I won't get the remaster
    Don't get me wrong,I like cool graphical effects,but I don't think Warcraft needs a entire remaster.I like the art style it has now.It adds charm and gives that Warcraft feel.We need to improve further upon this version along with help from patches.