Hero Contest #3 - Avatar

[Darkyvm]

Like Catch_ya said, you can't even imagine how much you learn from contests. :O
For example, I just found out that if you try to modify the mana of a unit that died, anything past that point will no longer work. Spent about 10 min trying to figure out what was causing my water spike spell to stop working if the initial spike killed something.

 

[Deaod]

Why isn't xecast allowed?

Because the rules are stupid. xecast doesnt do more for you than AutoIndex does (albeit they do different things).
Or take UnitStatus. Its allowed as well, but does WAY more than xecast.

 

[Darkyvm]

Because the rules are stupid. xecast doesnt do more for you than AutoIndex does (albeit they do different things).
Or take UnitStatus. Its allowed as well, but does WAY more than xecast.

Imo, all systems should be allowed, to give someone a score for coding should be based only on what they have actually done. For example, my water spike spell uses UnitStatus, but it only does a very small part of the spell (applying a timed buff to the unit). This is a hero, not a coding contest, after all.

Oh, and also, can one of the judges please confirm if the systems I was talking about in my post (page 7) are allowed? People are saying they are, but I don't want to be disqualified.

 

[Duruka]

there was already a big "discussion" over systems in the other thread, let's not start another one.

Edit: Here's another WIP. Now I just need an idea for my ultimate ability...

 

[Deaod]

Imo, all systems should be allowed, to give someone a score for coding should be based only on what they have actually done. [...] This is a hero, not a coding contest, after all.

Thats more or less what i said when this contest was not yet approved. Noone listened (or at least not those who could have changed something).

let's not start another one.

Why not? Do you fear you might have to scrap your xefx/xecast/whatever implementation?

 

[Duruka]

Nah, I'm not using any systems...really I don't care what the rules are, but no point changing them now...

 

[Pyritie]

Why not? Do you fear you might have to scrap your xefx/xecast/whatever implementation?

Because I ain't changing 'em.

 

[Anachron]

Rofl seriously, I don't know if I should make spells for this contest.
Imho, forbidding all the great systems SUCKS.

Who wants to have a spell with 1000ths of custom lines which would make 10 when you can use public opensource systems?

I mean that's the purpose of OS.

And xecast and xecollider (xefx) are really great systems, but doesn't do anything alone.
You still need to know how to use them.

Really, if the rules won't be changed I will not take part in this HC.

 

[Pyritie]

Suit yourself, because it's too late for the rules to be changed now.

 

[Anachron]

In the rules there is standing ask for systems to be used.
Also there is never a to late to fix what is broken.

Just fix it.

 

[Dragonson]

Oy ehm... just a question:
If you use a skin or icon that's mostly recolored for your purpose, which is against the Hiveworkshop Uploading rules, is that against the contest rules?

 

[Anachron]

No submission may violate any Hive Workshop site rules.

75% Modification
A skin must be modified at least 75% from the original in order to to be approved.

Rules, - You should as well read them.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Here is my first and final WIP, since the rest of my ideas are still under development:

 

[Dragonson]

Darn. I HATE that kind of answers.
What happened to "Yes" and "No"?
Anyways, i think get the idea.

 

[Anachron]

Sorry, but as I said, it's clearly stated that it is forbidden.

 

[Pharaoh_]

I'm sorry, I had it under Private option. Try now.

 

[Maker]

I don't see why a recoloured skin/icon would be a problem for this contest. You're not trying to get your resource (hero) approved to be downloaded from the database.

Uploaded resources are another thing, you can't call something your own if it's just a small modification (like recolouring), but here we can use imported stuff and small code systems, so why not recoloured icons.

EDIT: I was thinking of Blizzard icons/skins.

--video clip--

"This video is private"

EDIT: Oh, you fixed it.

 

[Anachron]

But you upload the map to the hiveworkshop and the map would break the rules then.

 

[Pyritie]

But you upload the map to the hiveworkshop and the map would break the rules then.

I dunno, map rules tend to be more lenient for imports

 

[Anachron]

Compliance
No map may violate any Hive Workshop general or specific site rules.

#Map Rules.

That includes for me the rules for uploading as well.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Anachron, you are not supposed to "share" them though. The whole thing isn't an action of sharing, but an action of trying the best for the submission. As long as you credit the original authors and get permission, everything's fine.

 

[Anachron]

I don't think like that.
The rules clearly state that all of the map that get uploaded by HWS have to follow all rules, no matter if they are used for a contest map or for public release.

 

[Pharaoh_]

If it was that wrong, Pyritie would have mentioned it.

 

[Pyritie]

I don't think like that.
The rules clearly state that all of the map that get uploaded by HWS have to follow all rules, no matter if they are used for a contest map or for public release.

The rules are about to change anyway, Hakeem/Ralle still haven't gotten around to that yet...

 

[Anachron]

The rules are about to change anyway, Hakeem/Ralle still haven't gotten around to that yet...

So what? Ignore the rules?

Suit yourself, because it's too late for the rules to be changed now.

Ignore the rules but this contest rules that live for a few days shouldn't be changed even if they are bad? You must be kidding.

 

[Pyritie]

Suit yourself, because it's too late for the rules to be changed now.

Refers to this specific contest's rules about systems.

The rules are about to change anyway, Hakeem/Ralle still haven't gotten around to that yet...

Refers to the entire site's rules.

 

[Anachron]

I know. But still that doesn't make sense.
If we change the site rules anyway (and you said you don't care about them right now), we could easily change this contest rules as well, which would just be good because they are not good at all, can't we?

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

When voting starts? Because i want to know how much time i have to finish spellpack.

 

[Anachron]

The contest shall begin on 17 March 2010 and conclude on 23:59, 14th April 2010, GMT

Reading is the key to success.

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

I get it. I know that words.
Edit : I have too much time to finish spellpack.

 

[88WaRCraFT3]

Spells must be commented?

 

[Kingz]

@Duruka

You could also do that earth strike spell with an equation you know, in 1 trigger...

EDIT:

Don't double post, use the edit button 88WaRCraFT3.

 

[Kercyn]

I just came up with a wonderful idea for my hero's ultimate. Definitely not as advanced as the rest of the spells, but it's an improvement over my other idea

<Name to be decided>

The hero turns invisible and follows target unit, losing x hp/s and gaining y attack/s. You can break the invisibility any time, and by doing so you reduce the target's armor by t for z seconds, based on the time you've been following it.

I'm also searching for a way to render the unit completely invisible, so that it can't be spotted by units with True Sight etc etc. I'm not sure if I can make it, but at least I'll try

 

[Catch_ya]

I just came up with a wonderful idea for my hero's ultimate. Definitely not as advanced as the rest of the spells, but it's an improvement over my other idea

<Name to be decided>

The hero turns invisible and follows target unit, losing x hp/s and gaining y attack/s. You can break the invisibility any time, and by doing so you reduce the target's armor by t for z seconds, based on the time you've been following it.

I'm also searching for a way to render the unit completely invisible, so that it can't be spotted by units with True Sight etc etc. I'm not sure if I can make it, but at least I'll try

Don't know if desynch, but show for local player.

 

[Kingz]

If you use a skin or icon that's mostly recolored for your purpose, which is against the Hiveworkshop Uploading rules, is that against the contest rules?

Sorry, but as I said, it's clearly stated that it is forbidden.

Sorry for my language but that is bullshit, at least for the existing WC3 icons/skins not the user created.

That mostly means that if i need a passive icon of an already existing icon (whirlwind for example) i would have to draw it on my own instead of editing the existing whirlwind inside the WC3?

Makes no sense if that is true...

On the other hand i might be wrong as Anachron might have addressed the user created icons/skins.

Nevermind...

 

[Anachron]

I haven't said anything against recoloring blizzard icons.

 

[Kingz]

Then i misunderstood you, since that guy didn't mention if he was refering to blizzard icons/skins or not.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Come on guys, don't start the discussion about large systems again.

One of the reasons for why we don't want those systems is that one of the things we give points on is Coding, which is basically how well you code. Note the "you". This is NOT a contest about how well others code, but how creative you are and how well you code. Also, practice makes perfect, i.e, if you create the same system over and over you'll get better and better, but if you use the same system over and over you'll never get better.

If I was a teacher in C++ (just an example) I would rather have my students write bad programs first and develop in skill than have them use stuff others made and never get better. See what I mean?

Another example just to make sure you understand:

Let's say I and Deaod were having a contest and we're supposed to make some awesome program. I start with creating the stuff I need, while Deaod finds some stuff on the internet he thinks he need. Suddenly, in the middle of the competition the whole town loses their internet and Deaod finds out he needs another system because he doesn't know how to make it himself. To his surprise he's unable to get it as he doesn't have internet while I however who also finds out I need a similar system write it myself rather quickly as I've written this system a hundred times before. At the end of the contest Deaod isn't finished and loses, but I'm finished and literally pwns him.

Do you understand now? Great.


Edit: Catch_ya, that would desync.

 

[Anachron]

Also, practice makes perfect, i.e, if you create the same system over and over you'll get better and better, but if you use the same system over and over you'll never get better.

Sorry but I really have to disagree with you. Reinventing the wheel is the wrong way to solve a problem that is solved before. You can still get how well the system is coded by seeing how the user used that systems.

At the end of the contest Deaod isn't finished and loses, but I'm finished and literally pwns him.

That would be his pity, nothing else.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Sorry but I really have to disagree with you. Reinventing the wheel is the wrong way to solve a problem that is solved before. You can still get how well the system is coded by seeing how the user used that systems.

Just looking at a system won't be enough to be able to write it yourself when you suddenly have to. F.ex. if you only look at the examples the teacher shows in class in math, but never try to solve it yourself you'll fail when the exam comes because you've never tried to do it yourself and you don't know how to do it. This applies to everyone except those with eidetic memory

That would be his pity, nothing else.

But why did he lose? Because he doesn't write systems like that himself. Yes, it's a pity, but as a spell mod one of my duties is to help people get better and don't do stupid mistakes like that.



Edit: And calling it reinventing the wheel is a taking it a bit far. When I write a projectile system again each time I need it I'm not reinventing the projectile system. Reinventing is when you completely redesign something, but still achieve the same goal. Examples of reinventing the wheel:

Catapult:

Floating Arm Trebuchet:

Example of what I'm doing:
FAT:

FAT (again):

 

[Anachron]

So the spells we make in these contests are throw-away-products? Ew..

Yes, it's a pity, but as a spell mod one of my duties is to help people get better and don't do stupid mistakes like that.

You can't help everyone.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

They are not throw away products...

I can still try.

 

[Catch_ya]

So the spells we make in these contests are throw-away-products? Ew..

Warcraft III is kinda throw away product in my opinion, since it will die to Starcraft II.

 

[Anachron]

Nobody wants maps which have bloated code which is senseless since there are librarys for that.

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

@Catch_ya: i don't think so, Starcraft'll take a large portion of the WCIII fans, sure, but some that despise SCIII, can't afford it, want the WCIII selection of maps, want medieval maps etc. etc. Will remain. There's no way in hell, that 100% of WCIII fans will move. Besides, everybody already have it, it's a good game, so LAN-games'll probably remain. Oh yeah... off-topic XD

@TRD - So we're allowed to upload our spells to the spell section afterwards?

 

[Mephestrial]

@Dragonson & Anachron

The map, skin, model, etc. rules only apply to their respective sections. Otherwise we would have stuff like map development threads shut down every 10 seconds for the "No Betas" rule that the map section has. Therefore, by attaching the map with your hero to your post allows you to bypass those rules since you have no intention to upload it for mass download.

 

[Freyleyes]

@TRD - So we're allowed to upload our spells to the spell section afterwards?

Yep, you may upload it to the spell section, but after the contest.

Off Topic :WC3 won't die cuz of SC2. Take CS 1.6 to Source? 1.6 is still the most played Counter Strike there is.

Back on :

That's a cool example TRD. Coding is important and that's why no big systems are allowed.

Please contact the mods, hold a poll, start a thread to change that rule. It was like that in previous contests that why I used it for this one. Lets leave it at that and continue on with the contest. Imo the rule about the big systems is fine, this is about your code, not someone else's.

 

[krisserz]

Just one question:

If I post only one wip with one spell is it ok and am I free till the ending of the constes?

 

[Duruka]

@Duruka

You could also do that earth strike spell with an equation you know, in 1 trigger...

Yeah I know, I'll do that soon...I'll go through and fix stuff when I'm finished with my ultimate ability, once I get an idea for it.

Edit: If I make a summon ability, can I make an ability for the summoned unit too? Or would that be counted as making more then four spells?

 

[Beast(TrOg)]

Well not to stray from the hot topic producing 200 posts, but...

I'd like to join. Hero with 2 spells right now, kind of bland but eh. The other two spells are, well, undiscovered.