Forgotten War COOP Campaign for 2 players version 1.3

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Link to the original singleplayer version- Forgotten War ver 2.008
Converted by me, Matt V. The original SP campaign was made by ForestDefender and uploaded by Tuzec.
This campaign is for 2 players! sorry about the wrong number shown.

EDIT 18th October 2019- This is the newest version released(1.1). Feel free to let me know about any present bugs/issues, but there shouldn't be too many of the issues anymore. However, I haven't fixed ALL of the bugs I've known about, so I might release a newer version in the future.

EDIT 11th April 2020- This is the newest version released(1.2). Feel free to let me know about any present bugs/issues, but there shouldn't be too many of the issues anymore.

Other than the bugs said down there, the campaign should work flawlessly now. But as I said, let me know in case you find anything worth noting.


EDIT 22th April 2020- This is the newest version released(1.3). Feel free to let me know about any present bugs/issues.
PLEASE NOTE: We tried hard to keep the feel of Forgotten War, so it's mostly the same like the original version posted above. We definitely don't want to dishonor ForestDefender or anything.


Known issues, bugs READ FIRST BEFORE POSTING A REVIEW
-Some cinematics might be way too long and not fused
-After a cinematic is finished, in certain levels another pops up once you or your friend select a unit.. I don't know how else should I do that- open for any ideas)- mostly fixed now though
-Ancestral Architect doesn't heal from fountains, but instead heals from being burrowed. I 'might' keep this thing in the game though.
-No save/load mechanic(I am not really thinking about updating it there since you both get various heroes pretty often(except for first 2 levels, but you will be granted items anyway), but I might reconsider in the future.
-As well as no shared upgrades(intentionally, since you get lots of gold anyway) again, might reconsider with further testing
-Some models appear to be way too big on certain maps

Features:
-9 COOP missions and 6 cinematics(including Credits)
-Custom made models and very altered naga race
-Variety of map types, from base-building to RPG-style, as well as variety of the landscape
-Unique mechanic- Sunlight Curse
-Unique heroes in most of the missions(except for the first few levels) with special abilities
-Unique units with special abilities
-Unique gameplay
-Rewards for completing quests in most missions
-Constant update and review checking for newer versions
-Skippable cinematics


Features I am about to add/edit:
-Rebalance difficulty after reading your reviews




Also, it was @FeelsGoodMan and @Daffa the Mage who helped me do this perfectly. I thank them for that!

I thank @Direfury who provided me the model for Cleaver in level 1 and 2(with his permission of course) Direfury's Murlocs (Murloc Warlock)

Version changes- not all of them are listed here though.
Version 1.1 changes:
Prologues: Unchanged for now, sorry!
Level 1: Added extra route to get to the end of the level, more gold, adjusted terrain(deleted objects that were blocking the path), made triggers act smoother
Level 2: Adjusted the terrain(no more big mountains, better pathfinding and objectives(units should no longer run far away from the village)
Level 3: P2 no longer loses units after the ritual, AI should behave better, Lizard Shed available for both players now, Red Ventar as well
Level 4: Reduced amount of ambushing units, added a new side quest, smoother triggers, City of Eternal Fire now available for both players,deleted/replaced a few turrets, added an easter egg
Level 5: Quests adjusted to work better, the level is actually completable now(script issues)
Level 6: Quest with Darksun now works properly, removed a few dragons, the level works as intended now(Side quests are actually rewarding)
Level 7: Adjusted quests, Larodar now attacks properly(as well as Demon legions)
Level 8: Quest tweaks, the ship is now obtainable, trolls work as intended
Level 9: More resources, more comfortable Deathwing gameplay
Epilogue and Credits unchanged for now.

Version 1.2 changes:
Prologues unchanged
Level 1 terrain adjusted, a new hero added for P2, dragons now attack properly, ventar cavern tweaks, trigger tweaks, flame burner can't be built anywhere anymore, less gold for the players, difficutly more balanced, lizard quest doable now
Level 2 Cleaver(the new hero) for P1 so both can play him, difficulty balances
Level 3 more builders, AI works properly now, terrain adjustment, tech tree fixed, ventars now attack ground units
Level 4 Cinematic tweaks, lesser amount of trolls, more buildings for trolls, quest tweaks, an ambush
Level 5 Cinematic tweaks, quest tweaks, illidan nerfed
Level 6 money tweaks, food tweaks, quest tweaks, darksun cinematic now works properly, tech tree tweaks
Level 7 Quest twaeaks, Larodar should be stronger now
Interlude unchanged
Level 8 quest tweaks, cinematic tweaks, a new passage added, should be more fun to play now.
Level 9 cinematics tweaks, P2 island edited, difficulty balanced.
Overall levels- hint whenever the day's coming
Epilogue unchanged
Credits unchanged

Version 1.3 changes:
Basically fixed all the things deepstrasz disliked. Mostly grammar mistakes and cinematics changes(for example putting two messages into one, since some of the cinematics are just way too exhausting.)
The most important fix is that level 3 is no longer bugged.
And a small hotfix released 2 days later- AI updated in level 2,3 and 4, including some bugfixes in level 3.,
And another small hotfix, cinematic fix in level 3, smoothened triggers, fixed some grammar mistakes.
As well as some AI fixes and such. All of these in level 3.

Feel free to add a review/commentary of any sort(if you want to inform me of a certain bug or issue, please make sure it's not listed in Known bugs and issues shown here. Thank you!
Contents

Forgotten War Credits cinematic (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 1 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 2 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 3 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 4 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 5 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 6 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 7 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 7 Interlude (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 8 (Map)

Forgotten War Mission 9 (Map)

Forgotten War- Epilogue (Map)

Forgotten War0 1st part of Prologue (Map)

Forgotten War0 2nd part of Prologue (Map)

Forgotten War0 3rd part of Prologue (Map)

Reviews
deepstrasz
Ah. Don't worry. Take your time. EDIT: Generally, there's a delay before cinematic mode goes on. Although some polish would do good and there's always room for improvement, the issues are those in whitened text. Awaiting...
Level 12
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Were talking about mod communities not law and order.

The point im trying to bore into his head is the general code of conduct which is not to modify other peoples work without permission.

Its a baseline and oldest unwritten rule of user created content.

Doesnt matter of its part of a site rules or not

Its common decency to respect other peoples creations. Not butcher it when they arent around and reupload it

@YourArthas

Hey buddy

Tell these guys about a little bit youre dealing with about a certain someone using your teams Rebirth assets not only without permission but in defiance of it.
 
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Level 3
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Were talking about mod communities not law and order.

The point im trying to bore into his head is the general code of conduct which is not to mess with other peoples work without permission.

Its a baseline and oldest unwritten rule of user created content.

I think you have made that very clear to me :)

Not butcher it when they arent around and reupload it
I don't really know how I "butchered" ForestDefender's creation.. by converting it into coop campaign?

Doesnt matter of its part of a site rules or not
I'm not here to speak for people, especially not for mods, but I'd say most of the mods would disagree with this statement of yours.
And I think I have done all the common decency possible, other than contacting him(which I, again, couldn't and can't do) by mentioning him everywhere I could. That it was all his job, and all I have done was putting another player in and some other editing to improve it a little, which was imho necessary to upload it, because some issues were gamebreaking.
 
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People need to take a sip and chill for a bit.

Shar for one, as I am already aware, has countlessly expressed his intention to have NO ONE, literally NO ONE, multiple times. That is a clear note that we moderators can go on a quick takedown mode for HIS works. As much as I respect Shar, his opinion has zero value in this campaign's case, since this campaign is not his. Goes for other campaign makers mentioned aside of ForestDefender.

The thing is, this kind of stuff always gets too much trouble than it's worth debating. I would like to know if someone can reach ForestDefender or has means that I can get direct contact with. This can resolve the issue without too much debate and banters. You people debate just doesn't help to reach a logical conclusion at this rate, as both sides will keep defending their option to the bitter end.

To be honest, I have no knowledge of this project. How does my name reach there?

I agree with @tulee when it comes to how you just reached the uploader AFTER you almost finished the work. That's just not how it suppose to be.

I will talk with the team for this particular case. Need to evaluate this through first.
 
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People need to take a sip and chill for a bit.


I agree with @tulee when it comes to how you just reached the uploader AFTER you almost finished the work. That's just not how it suppose to be.

I will talk with the team for this particular case. Need to evaluate this through first.

Hey, I'm aware about this not being the best way to do it.. and I have realised it way too late that I should contact him, which was just wrong.. (I haven't done anything like this ever before, so that's probably the case.)
 
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People need to take a sip and chill for a bit.

Shar for one, as I am already aware, has countlessly expressed his intention to have NO ONE, literally NO ONE, multiple times. That is a clear note that we moderators can go on a quick takedown mode for HIS works. As much as I respect Shar, his opinion has zero value in this campaign's case, since this campaign is not his. Goes for other campaign makers mentioned aside of ForestDefender.

The thing is, this kind of stuff always gets too much trouble than it's worth debating. I would like to know if someone can reach ForestDefender or has means that I can get direct contact with. This can resolve the issue without too much debate and banters. You people debate just doesn't help to reach a logical conclusion at this rate, as both sides will keep defending their option to the bitter end.

To be honest, I have no knowledge of this project. How does my name reach there?

I agree with @tulee when it comes to how you just reached the uploader AFTER you almost finished the work. That's just not how it suppose to be.

I will talk with the team for this particular case. Need to evaluate this through first.
Most of the maps uploaded by Tuzec were by users who who made their campaigns before hiveworkshop was even hiveworkshop I think. Most if not all would not have accounts here, including Forest Defender to my knowledge, so unlikely there is a way to contact him.
 
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@tulee
Think the only old campaign creators around from the very beggining are razorclaw and outsiderxe although razorclawx mostly keeps his stuff on his area on campaigncreations.org

Its so grand they continue to update and even release new campaigns even in 2019 all the while we have wonderful stuff like malfurions quest,/turno series, curse of forsaken/blood elves and shars arkain

Its still flabbergasted i came into random contact with Deicide and even more astonished that he still had his SoA2 beta and was happy to distribute it thinking no one wanted to play an unfinished SoA sequel after 15 years.

Imagine if Darky28 or Medmapguy suddenly poped up

Although the Dawrf Campaign was semi revived and that thing is older then WoW Vanilla lol


EDIT
@Shar Dundred
@Daffa the Mage
@deepstrasz

Check attached image

Look what i found you were holding out on me Shar

So yeah Daffa problematic indeed.
Leting him do this to absent authors would mean he would do it to many more in the future since on Aug 3 he wasnt just """trying""" to find Forestdefender but also wanting to Coop Arkain.

Almost positive there are more campaigns on his mind.

Bad precedent indeed.

Anyway i think im done finally!

Screenshot_20190823-112554_Chrome.jpg
 
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@tulee

Check attached image

Look what i found you were holding out on me Shar

So yeah Daffa problematic indeed.
Leting him do this to absent authors would mean he would do it to many more in the future since on Aug 3 he wasnt just """trying""" to find Forestdefender but also wanting to Coop Arkain.

Almost positive there are more campaigns on his mind.

Bad precedent indeed.

Anyway i think im done finally!

Oh come on. I haven't even opened World Editor to attempt to do anything like that. And all I did was that I asked him! Nothing else.. and I would say checking other profiles commentaries and posting images of it is imho also considered "lack of common decency". What were you just doing? Stalking my profile?
 
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Oh come on. I haven't even opened World Editor to attempt to do anything like that. And all I did was that I asked him! Nothing else.. and I would say checking other profiles commentaries and posting images of it is imho also considered "lack of common decency". What were you just doing? Stalking my profile?
A happy accident.
 

Shar Dundred

Arena Moderator
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That's funny, I do not recall that message. At all. I am pretty sure I did not get an alert.

Probably because it was posted during the trial period of Matt (posted on the day of account
creation) and therefore had to be approved first. I am pretty sure I did not get an alert else I
would have responded with something like this:
"Thank you for the offer but I would prefer creating a coop version of Arkain myself if I want
such a thing to exist - and I am still not sure whether or not I want such a thing to be created.
It is a lot of work, yes, but I prefer doing all Arkain related matters myself."

Edit: Also, I did not get an alert again for you tagging me here, @Anaxie. I am starting to be confused about the alert system. Or did you add me in an edit of your post?
 
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And I wouldn't blame you for it, Shar :). I don't really think there is any problem with CONTACTING you, which is considered like a bad thing only if I don't. Also, I don't think this was very needed to drag you Shar, into this conversation and discussion.. and so it happened..

Oh, and to be honest, the main reason why I created this account was to post reviews in the first place, since I enjoyed playing almost every campaign I have played so far and wanted to leave some feedback for the authors.(I enjoyed especially yours because of its uniqueness, but that's another thing..)
 
Level 12
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That's funny, I do not recall that message. At all. I am pretty sure I did not get an alert.

Probably because it was posted during the trial period of Matt (posted on the day of account
creation) and therefore had to be approved first. I am pretty sure I did not get an alert else I
would have responded with something like this:
"Thank you for the offer but I would prefer creating a coop version of Arkain myself if I want
such a thing to exist - and I am still not sure whether or not I want such a thing to be created.
It is a lot of work, yes, but I prefer doing all Arkain related matters myself."

Edit: Also, I did not get an alert again for you tagging me here, @Anaxie. I am starting to be confused about the alert system. Or did you add me in an edit of your post?
Prob edit
 

Ralle

Owner
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-You posted your message on Tuzec's profile 4 days ago. This comes across as really disingenuous, since you had clearly begun working on this long before you sought to get permission to upload another person's work to hiveworkshop.

We want people to make a good effort on getting in touch with people. I have helped many people get in touch with authors in the past by giving them the email of them or recommending finding them on deviant art or similar to get a proper answer. It can't be half-assed, you have to try.

Hello, I know this might look weird. However, what am I supposed to do when he hasn't logged in for a year? am I just supposed to wait? I have no problem with deleting this, if it doesn't match the rules or something.. I also tried to find ForestDefender on hive or somewhere else, but I didn't manage to do so. Also, I'm sorry if this is a problem. And of course, if Tuzec says no, I will delete this at once(or any moderator, of course.) Because to be honest, I don't want to wait a year or even more for something that might not even happen, like Tuzec replying to my message.
4 days is nothing. I would expect you to try for months to get in touch.

Also. You can pre-empt this whole thing by putting a sort of license in your description. "This map is for playing/consumption only, if you make edits of it, do not submit them publicly" or similar. Then there's no reason to even contact you.

Also, if you are dead (not paying attention to WC3 anymore) you don't care about people editing your map because you aren't around to care.

When this blows over, we will move all these posts to their own thread to make this thread for comments about the map instead of this whole healthy, albeit sort of misplaced discussion.
 
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We want people to make a good effort on getting in touch with people. I have helped many people get in touch with authors in the past by giving them the email of them or recommending finding them on deviant art or similar to get a proper answer. It can't be half-assed, you have to try.


4 days is nothing. I would expect you to try for months to get in touch.

Now I am curious about this.. how exactly should have I tried to get in touch with ForestDefender? Give me an example or two, thank you.. And also, if Tuzec would reply to me, would his word have any weigh, considering that as Anaxie said, he's only an uploader, and not the original editor himself?
And again, I can just delete this and wait for a way to contact ForestDefender(although I really doubt there is any way) or just delete this and be done with this. I had no idea doing something like this would start such a discussion, over 4 pages and it's still extending and going on. (Yet I am aware of this practic being wrong, or in other words, definitely not appropriate.)
I'm very curious about how this turns out, about what will happen with my upload.. and I respect all of your decisions.


By the way his entire name, as is written in the credits is "Joaquin "Forest Defender" Gonzalez". Would be glad if you somehow found the right one(there is a lot of them, few of them even were/are quite famous.
 
Level 15
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And again, I can just delete this and wait for a way to contact ForestDefender(although I really doubt there is any way) or just delete this and be done with this.
I doubt Forest Defender will ever be able to be contacted tbh. It is not so much about the time in-between (16 year?), but that he never had an account on hiveworkshop. Tuzec himself rarely posts anything, I think many people have tried to contact that guy, he just randomly logs on every few years and that is it. Even if he did reply, I doubt he would remember much about Forest Defender.

Definitely do not get discouraged. Coop maps are the future trend I think. People really want to be able to play with their friends. Hopefully, you maps will be allowed to stay.
 
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Definitely do not get discouraged. Coop maps are the future trend I think. People really want to be able to play with their friends. Hopefully, you maps will be allowed to stay.

I kinda think the same, but I barely have any idea how a coop campaign could be.
 
Level 15
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If he shows proof he is trying multiple times to search the author's name on google/has been asking older members who might have known him where the author is, will that be enough? It is hard since the original author (forestdefender) made the campaign before hiveworkshop was created (or he just did not ever have a hiveworkshop account).
 
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I added a template for the save/load system by Aceheart and modified by Kilmaat. Very simple and almost 0 effort needed, just remember to copy paste the JASS code at the top of the trigger section (in the map) before saving, and remember to have the file- preferences "auto create variables when pasting triggers" set to on. I think @deflinok2 was also looking for this.
 

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I added a template for the save/load system by Aceheart and modified by Kilmaat. Very simple and almost 0 effort needed, just remember to copy paste the JASS code at the top of the trigger section (in the map) before saving, and remember to have the file- preferences "auto create variables when pasting triggers" set to on. I think @deflinok2 was also looking for this.
I will make sure to include this in the next updated version and in the description with credits. Thank you!

also, @Daffa the Mage , as I have told you before here and in the private conversations, I tried looking for ForestDefender- on Google by typing his name, looked at other WC3 websites(gaming-tools, epicwar) but all without a single valuable result. I could also attach a screenshot of it, but I guess you can imagine that it's not too relevant, at least imho. I have also asked you all here multiple times, if you happen to find him then let me know, so apparently no one has a way of contacting him(maybe only @tuzec could have his contact somewhere, but he hasn't logged in for almost year and a half now..) I hope you understand.
 
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I would be curious if a trend begins in hiveworkshop to make many previous campaigns 2p(coop) compatible if this campaign is successful. Would probably annoy the moderators though, since I guess they would be forced to play through campaigns they may have already played through before. Perhaps to avoid this situation, the moderation comment should just be based on some random person who plays the campaign and gives feedback.

Also, I would suggest putting the link to FD's campaign at the top somewhere so people can easily get linked to the original.
 
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Also, I would suggest putting the link to FD's campaign at the top somewhere so people can easily get linked to the original.
Yeah, I will do that once I release the update. I started working on it, trying to make sure the save/load works.. I should be able to release the update by the end of October.. sorry for the delay guys! I know I promised it would be updated by the end of Septrmber, but since many people kept saying that I'm editing beyond coop, I was thinking that I might not update too much stuff after all, since it would be a problem for most of the people..
But I'm having some issues irl, so once I'm done with it I will try to release the patch asap.
Thanks for your patience!

EDIT: I have released the update yesterday. Feel free to post a review!(bugfix list in the description of the map)
 
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Pretty much nothing can be done at this rate I suppose. Anyway, make the link to the original more visible (I'm referring to using text size). I concluded this can be permitted, BUT any takedown from ForestDefender is an automatic say goodbye for this bundle. This is based on consideration that tuzec's original do not have this restriction set ("no edit allowed publicly")

Now, on to the matter, time to get dirty I suppose. Apologize for the over one month absence, was busy elsewhere.
 
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Pretty much nothing can be done at this rate I suppose. Anyway, make the link to the original more visible (I'm referring to using text size). I concluded this can be permitted, BUT any takedown from ForestDefender is an automatic say goodbye for this bundle. This is based on consideration that tuzec's original do not have this restriction set ("no edit allowed publicly")
I'm glad you even let the bundle stay on this server to be honest. I guess only time can tell what will happen with this.
Also, just to make it clear for most of the people, I'm not gonna start another project anymore, because WC Reforged is on its way anyway, and it's hard to tell how'S it gonna work out with custom campaigns and whether people will play WCR or WCIII after the official release of WCR..
 
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I'm glad you even let the bundle stay on this server to be honest. I guess only time can tell what will happen with this.
Also, just to make it clear for most of the people, I'm not gonna start another project anymore, because WC Reforged is on its way anyway, and it's hard to tell how'S it gonna work out with custom campaigns and whether people will play WCR or WCIII after the official release of WCR..

WCR an WCIII are the exact same game, WC3 will just be a mode that can be activated in the game settings.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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@deepstrasz mind if I have you assigned for this campaign review?
What has been decided?
Are we putting this in the original campaign thread? Are we letting it in its own?

@Matt V. are the bugs fixed? I mean I am not willing to approve this if there a issues with the game cache e.g. heroes not being properly loaded between levels (their stats, items, level, ability selection etc.).
 
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@Matt V. are the bugs fixed? I mean I am not willing to approve this if there a issues with the game cache e.g. heroes not being properly loaded between levels (their stats, items, level, ability selection etc.).

I wanted to add the save/load mechanic there.. but I decided not to do so after all(at least for now, that is) However, I tweaked the levels and ability selection- by giving the amount of levels but not adding fixed ability points(players have to pick it again every level, so they can possibly decide what to max in another mission)
And yes, most of the bugs have been fixed I believe.. I made some necessary tweaks in certain levels, to make the playthrough more pleasant for both players(I don't really remember what exactly I've done, but you can see most of the changes in the "version 1.1 changes" in the map description)

Also I guess you know that, but you can play it yourself, without the need of playing with another person.. heroes get items, but they don't have the ability points preset or anything)
Since I haven't received any mentions about the issues/bugs in the campaign(and I played the entire campaign twice, with 2 of my fellow friend testers and I fixed/tweaked all of the issues we found) I'm not planning to update it, just because I don't know what to include in the update(Possibly the prologue merging and the grammar mistakes and mispelling changes, but goddamn that's gonna be a pain to deal with)

It's all up to you whether you decide to approve it or not(I would be glad if it got approved of course, but the fact no one(except for @Lord Esdin , thank you for your comment btw!) posted a "review" yet kinda bothers me..
Matt V.
 
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deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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It's all up to you whether you decide to approve it or not(I would be glad if it got approved of course, but the fact no one(except for @Lord Esdin , thank you for your comment btw!) posted a "review" yet kinda bothers me..
Matt V.
I would prefer you find someone to help you with the transition codes. Just adding one more player in each map doesn't quite make it a campaign without proper game cache access.
Maybe @tulee would since he endorses this project. I haven't used such save systems myself so I can't give you any hints.

Codeless Save and Load (Multiplayer) - v3.0.0
CodeGen 1.0.2
Save/Load Code, Yet Another
Save/Load Code

Also, I will remove the tag spam.
 
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I would prefer you find someone to help you with the transition codes. Just adding one more player in each map doesn't quite make it a campaign without proper game cache access.

Well what exactly do you mean by that? I mean, I have done much more than that.. both of the players get to see the cinematics, which is quite time consuming itself to be honest.. all the changes I've done apply for both of the players(if that's what you meant, that is..)
Maybe I'm just being stupid and inexperienced in all this, so please make that clear to me.
Also, I don't think the save/load mechanic is needed at all(I have talked about that before with tulee as well in private conversation, and I decided not to add it there after all, because you get items before the game starts anyway..)
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
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Also, I don't think the save/load mechanic is needed at all(I have talked about that before with tulee as well in private conversation, and I decided not to add it there after all, because you get items before the game starts anyway..)
OK, I'll do a run sometime to see how things go then.

Just in case, take a look at my review on the original campaign Forgotten War ver 2.008 and see if you can fix stuff that's present there so I won't have to mention it again.
 
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OK, I'll do a run sometime to see how things go then.
Alright.. I have to confess though, I have changed quite many things you mentioned there, but I haven't been messing with the units at all. So for example Darksun's aura remains the same.. and so on. You know, many people here said that I already edit beyond co-op :) so I figured I shouldn't edit it too much. I guess I can never really do a favour to everyone here..

But I changed some things in the triggers- for example the dryads saying "none"(also just to be clear, I added another hero for chapter 5, who's a Crypt Lord. I guess some people might disagree, but I thought it would be more pleasant for the players so both of the players have a hero.)
I also changed the size of certain buildings that were too annoying(also mentioned it in the description of the map)
If you want to, deepstrasz, I can send you a private message of all the tweaks I made according to your review of Forgotten War ver 2.008.
If not I can just post it here, but it might be a longer text(cant tell at the moment, its your call anyway)
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 51
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,362
who's a Crypt Lord. I guess some people might disagree, but I thought it would be more pleasant for the players so both of the players have a hero.)
I don't know... does it fit the theme? Also, try at least not copying all the spells and think of some strategy using spells from here and there?
Wait, each has the same hero type or they share one new hero?
If you want to, deepstrasz, I can send you a private message of all the tweaks I made according to your review of
Yes please.
Doesn't matter if it's long. You can hide it under spoiler/hidden tags like so:

[spoiler] or [hidden="title"]
wall of text
[/spoiler] or [/hidden]
 
Level 3
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
38
looks like this campaign is going about as I expected and said it would.

lets just throw in a random crypt lord

Item Cache. Naahh cant do it sorry brah

as i said pages ago. butchered

Long time no see..
Seems like we're off for a great New Year start :)
Also Anaxie, could you kindly tell me how else would have you done it? I don't take no as an answer. Just think about it. Giving them both same heroes? nawh. It's just for this level, which you havent even played yourself.. also 950 downloads is more than enough for me.

Item Cache
Oh and not that I CAN'T do it, I just find it pointless. Players get items at the start anyway, so what's the point? There aren't any items (besides level 5) where players get to keep actually good items. And if they do, they automatically receive it in the next level anyway.
By the way Happy New Year :))))
 
Level 15
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Jul 26, 2008
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Oh and not that I CAN'T do it, I just find it pointless. Players get items at the start anyway, so what's the point? There aren't any items (besides level 5) where players get to keep actually good items. And if they do, they automatically receive it in the next level anyway.
So you trigger the maps so all potential items on past maps appear on the ground/in the inventory of heroes at the start of maps?
This disincentivizes players from collecting items. In those typical rpg maps in campaigns, players will normally look at the shape of the terrain in the fog of war. Even though you cannot see anything specially, people can see the shape of a deadend. It is in those times that people who will ordinarily go the dead-end route first to collect w/e items drop from optional creeps in that area, and then go back the correct path. But no-one will ever choose to go the dead-end path if they get the items anyway.

The save/code system I posted is simple to implement, if you ever change your mind about it.
 
Level 3
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Messages
38
So you trigger the maps so all potential items on past maps appear on the ground/in the inventory of heroes at the start of maps?
This disincentivizes players from collecting items. In those typical rpg maps in campaigns, players will normally look at the shape of the terrain in the fog of war. Even though you cannot see anything specially, people can see the shape of a deadend. It is in those times that people who will ordinarily go the dead-end route first to collect w/e items drop from optional creeps in that area, and then go back the correct path. But no-one will ever choose to go the dead-end path if they get the items anyway.

The save/code system I posted is simple to implement, if you ever change your mind about it.

Well I don't remember too exactly, but there usually was something in these deadends.. for example some quests. But the thing is, I've been shouted at for editing beyond coop, and none of the players have expressed their opinions yet, so I still don't know(although I tested it twice with 2 of my friends in earlier version-s) whether it's good to go in the current state or not.
I'd be happy to do it for others(the Item Cache), although it probably would have changed ForestDefender's original intentions.. and if that's not a problem for you great :)
So basically I'm just waiting for some reviews, don't wanna change something that might work just fine.
But tulee once again I'm very glad you even took the time to consider doing the Item Cache for me(and others)! I feel kinda sorry for not implementing it to be honest..
 
Level 15
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Jul 26, 2008
Messages
1,180
and none of the players have expressed their opinions yet
Yea, I thought it was strange no-one commented at all on playing it.

I'd be happy to do it for others(the Item Cache), although it probably would have changed ForestDefender's original intentions.
His original campaign had a game cache, so the item cache is just keeping in accord with his original product.

So basically I'm just waiting for some reviews, don't wanna change something that might work just fine.
Yea, I guess the best option is to see how other players feel about it.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 51
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,362
  1. OK, so I don't see the reason why both players would have the exact same hero, Malkor. That's unoriginal. Makes things much easier with double Hypnotism.
  2. The Ventars can't all harvest the same mine if they belong to different players.
  3. The dragons don't send any troops.
  4. The Flame Burner can be built over doodads and buildings.
  5. The first Eternal Flame Burner has Inner Fire which can't be used requiring an upgrade. The others build after, don't have this.
  6. You should mention in the Eternal Flame Burner or somewhere in the game that players can't pass 60 food.
  7. The dragons are weak. 12 Ventars are almost enough to dispose of them.
  8. The Architect's Burrow ability doesn't say it let's the unit regenerate. The unit description does.
  9. The dragon optional quest reward is useless. You've already got tons of gold to spare.
  10. Captured 7 lizards. Can't seem to find any more to complete. Checked the map's object editor and there's only 7 as I remembered from the original. So the quest doesn't finish. I used Hypnotism from both heroes to get them. Checked the triggers and it's checking for 8 lizards instead of 7.
  11. Every enemy belongs to the dragons, heh.
  12. Well the game cache isn't working (I mean no save-load codes since it's multiplayer) but in the second chapter you get another Orb of Venom for the other hero :D I guess it's more beneficial this way.
  13. Later on players have different heroes, not new ones but not a copy. That's better implementation. In this way, a sort of StarCraft Archon Mode would do for the first levels where one player could play with the economy and troops and the other with the hero or something.
Generally, this campaign isn't giving us much more than the possibility of playing it with another person. I find it a somewhat easy edit.
Will check with the other reviewers on what to do with its status.


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EDIT: OK so I've been chatting with Shar Dundred since he's also a reviewer and played the original years back. We think it's best that you at least fix the issues the campaign originally had and try to be more creative while not deviating from the original too much as you don't want that.
My comments on the original could help you fix some of the issues: Forgotten War ver 2.008

Awaiting Update.
 
Last edited:
Level 3
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
38
  1. OK, so I don't see the reason why both players would have the exact same hero, Malkor. That's unoriginal. Makes things much easier with double Hypnotism.
  2. The Ventars can't all harvest the same mine if they belong to different players.
  3. The dragons don't send any troops.
  4. The Flame Burner can be built over doodads and buildings.
  5. The first Eternal Flame Burner has Inner Fire which can't be used requiring an upgrade. The others build after, don't have this.
  6. You should mention in the Eternal Flame Burner or somewhere in the game that players can't pass 60 food.
  7. The dragons are weak. 12 Ventars are almost enough to dispose of them.
  8. The Architect's Burrow ability doesn't say it let's the unit regenerate. The unit description does.
  9. The dragon optional quest reward is useless. You've already got tons of gold to spare.
  10. Captured 7 lizards. Can't seem to find any more to complete. Checked the map's object editor and there's only 7 as I remembered from the original. So the quest doesn't finish. I used Hypnotism from both heroes to get them. Checked the triggers and it's checking for 8 lizards instead of 7.
  11. Every enemy belongs to the dragons, heh.
  12. Well the game cache isn't working (I mean no save-load codes since it's multiplayer) but in the second chapter you get another Orb of Venom for the other hero :D I guess it's more beneficial this way.
  13. Later on players have different heroes, not new ones but not a copy. That's better implementation. In this way, a sort of StarCraft Archon Mode would do for the first levels where one player could play with the economy and troops and the other with the hero or something.
Generally, this campaign isn't giving us much more than the possibility of playing it with another person. I find it a somewhat easy edit.
Will check with the other reviewers on what to do with its status.
EDIT: OK so I've been chatting with Shar Dundred since he's also a reviewer and played the original years back. We think it's best that you at least fix the issues the campaign originally had and try to be more creative while not deviating from the original too much as you don't want that.
My comments on the original could help you fix some of the issues: Forgotten War ver 2.008

Well, I'll try to be as honest as possible here. Don't yell at me if you dislike some of my decisions. Now that I look back at it again, I realise those decisions were actually quite terrible. But I'll try to comment every single point you made. Thank you for the review btw. If LITERALLY ANYONE posted a review sooner I woulda updated it right away. However, I really lost the hope and the vigour to even dare trying to fix things anymore. It's just been too long without ANY feedback whatsoever.
1. I admit, this was a bit of my own laziness. I thought I'm too incapable to create a brand new hero. Plus I'm not much of a creative person. On the other hand, I wanted both players to meet with Malkor, since he'll be reintroduced for both players later on.
2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. is that possible in WC 3 overall? for multiple people to harvest from one mine? Doesn't it tell you that this mine is already being used by another player? If it's not the case, sorry about that.
3. Yeaaaaaaah about that... when we tested it, sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't. Iirc I set the timer to late game, but maybe I tweaked it TOO much. See? This could be said by literally anyone and I woulda changed it right away. But nooo. Things woulda been way too easy then.
4. As *some* people complained, I edited beyond coop. Since I'm incapable of customising units and stuff like that, I didn't want to mess with this too much due to that statement.. The record I've made when it comes to units and buildings was editing the size of certain buildings/tech trees. That was about it. (it seems you haven't played all the levels, right? just curious... yeah would've been boring I reckon)
5. Thanks for letting me know, didn't know that. Seems like testing it twice wasn't enough. I gotta confess though- I have done some editing after the testing, so maybe I messed something up here and there. Sorry!
6. That was one of the difficulty balancing I wanted to tweak after some reviews. I guess now it's time then.
7. Again, difficulty balancing, could be tweaked easily.
8. Thanks for letting me know. Can change that.
9. -II-
10. Now I'm not so sure about that. Maybe I deleted one, I don't quite remember. But what I remember is that I disliked this level a lot. I thought about changing the entirely, but that would have been too much editing, and again I thought people would mind that(apparently they mind nothing, or just remain silent and act like everything is alright which is annoys me), but it seems I'll at least add the lizard back :D that was a mistake, sorry.
11. Oops..
12. This is a topic worth talking about(although I'll keep it short) tulee, this wonderful guy, sent me the save cache scripts. I told him I'll definitely consider implementing it, but again... since people didn't post a single review nor expressed their opinions about any of this, I decided to NOT put it in the game.. yet. And yeah, I thought this would temporarily solve everything, to give the heroes stuff they could find(at least most of it) into their inventories. Should I keep it this way? I mean it works, and I suppose I shouldn't edit too much stuff that works.. lemme know.
13. About the heroes- I was wondering what to do about this. I asked my testers what would they do, and we all agreed to keep it like this for now. I'll see what I can do.

Reply to EDIT: I managed to convince one of my friends to test it again with me. I'll try to take a look at it asap. About the comments on the original map- I've read them, and I believe I've fixed most of them. I'll take a look at it again, just in case. Oh, and didn't I fix most of it? If not, I'll do it, if you so desire. About the deviating from the original- Well it seemed I would be blamed for editing too much. That's one of the main reasons why I didn't bother trying to be more creative. I'll see what I can do.

Well thank you overall. I admit I could have been more committed to edit the campaign to your liking. HOWEVER, third and the last time I'm saying it- due to lack of reviews, I didn't do so.
Matt V.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 51
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,362
1. I admit, this was a bit of my own laziness. I thought I'm too incapable to create a brand new hero. Plus I'm not much of a creative person. On the other hand, I wanted both players to meet with Malkor, since he'll be reintroduced for both players later on.
Hey, there are people around who can give ideas. Try these forums:
Idea Factory
Project Recruitment
Requests
2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. is that possible in WC 3 overall? for multiple people to harvest from one mine? Doesn't it tell you that this mine is already being used by another player? If it's not the case, sorry about that.
Oops. I forgot to write that there's nothing you could potentially do, I guess. Didn't check the game constants though to see if there's any way you could change it.
(it seems you haven't played all the levels, right? just curious... yeah would've been boring I reckon)
Not in completion, no. I took a look at the others and they seemed pretty much the same as in the original. Such minor issues might be present, yeah.
7. Again, difficulty balancing, could be tweaked easily.
It'd help if the dragons attacked now and then, later on if you don't go for them early, with big dudes.
I thought this would temporarily solve everything, to give the heroes stuff they could find(at least most of it) into their inventories. Should I keep it this way? I mean it works, and I suppose I shouldn't edit too much stuff that works.. lemme know.
Well, it would be really neat if you could delve into the lore and create some nifty items that you could get from one map to another, instead of seeing scrolls and potions all the time.
13. About the heroes- I was wondering what to do about this. I asked my testers what would they do, and we all agreed to keep it like this for now. I'll see what I can do.
Something like with the items, you could create another character. Or just make it more Archon Mode as mentioned, split player attributes so that one would not have Malkor. This could create replayability at least for some maps where there is only one hero.
Well thank you overall. I admit I could have been more committed to edit the campaign to your liking.
Well, it's not about my liking. It's so that it'd be of quality since now there's so little difference between your edit and the original.
 
Level 3
Joined
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Messages
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Hey, there are people around who can give ideas. Try these forums:
Idea Factory
Project Recruitment
Requests
I'll take a look at these for sure, thanks
Not in completion, no. I took a look at the others and they seemed pretty much the same as in the original. Such minor issues might be present, yeah.
I don't mean to brag, but isn't it supposed to be like that? That it should be pretty much the same like the original? In my opinion it should mostly remain the same like singleplayer(or at least the terrain and units, that is). Although if that's not the case, I can edit it more than I did so far I suppose.
It'd help if the dragons attacked now and then, later on if you don't go for them early, with big dudes.
That's a good idea(and a logical one), I can do that.

Well, it would be really neat if you could delve into the lore and create some nifty items that you could get from one map to another, instead of seeing scrolls and potions all the time.
That's a long term thing, but I'll see what I can do. I guess Forgotten War seems to be less forgotten and actually could appreciate some love..
Something like with the items, you could create another character. Or just make it more Archon Mode as mentioned, split player attributes so that one would not have Malkor. This could create replayability at least for some maps where there is only one hero.
Again that's a bit more complicated, but I'll see what I can do. Not saying I'll include it in the next patch though- I'll see what happens, and how hard it will actually be.

Well, it's not about my liking. It's so that it'd be of quality since now there's so little difference between your edit and the original.
Yeah I meant your in general, of all the people.. If my friend/tester will have some ideas(or anyone else :) ) then I'll try to include it in the game.
 

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 51
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
15,362
I don't mean to brag, but isn't it supposed to be like that? That it should be pretty much the same like the original? In my opinion it should mostly remain the same like singleplayer(or at least the terrain and units, that is). Although if that's not the case, I can edit it more than I did so far I suppose.
Ah. I meant like with some of the stuff that could use some tweaking still there.
I guess Forgotten War seems to be less forgotten and actually could appreciate some love..
Yeah, try to go beyond the hard fan part and try seeing the stuff that can be improved.
Yeah I meant your in general, of all the people.. If my friend/tester will have some ideas(or anyone else :) ) then I'll try to include it in the game.
Would be a good idea to play some co-op campaigns to get some inspiration.
 
Level 3
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Messages
38
Yeah, try to go beyond the hard fan part and try seeing the stuff that can be improved.

Would be a good idea to play some co-op campaigns to get some inspiration.
Okay, as you wish. Glad you didnt delete the campaign :)
Also this might surprise you but COOP maps inspired me enough to create this. It helped me a lot, especially with the triggers and such.
Just saying, thanks to your comment you made me download the game again from my laptop into my PC. Maybe Forgotten War would have actually been forgotten if it wasnt for you :)
I'm also about to replay all the COOP campaigns with my well-known friend.

I should be able to update a new version within a month at most.. I hope.
 
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