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Melee Mapping Contest #4 - 2v2

Discussion in 'Contest Archive' started by mafe, Mar 13, 2019.

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  1. FranzVader_CZ

    FranzVader_CZ

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    Map can be more playable when you connect shallow water in the center and make huge piece of land there. For sure there should be Goblin laboratory as well in the map.
     
  2. "jimmy, what we have here is biggest peashooter in the galaxy" !!
    tychus says that as he's casually shooting mutalisks and zerglings

    also the train mission, "ol tychus is gonna love this one" and he sure does :D


    Wow this length, is it a review?
    I'm kidding, thank you for your long elaboration on the matter.
    Just to say, this is just WIP. Map has a long way to go, and there's a shit ton of time.

    Ra2 had a very fun water game. If you know Ra2 (Ra3 is trash imo) have you played Ra1?
    If yes, destroyers and especially cruisers were... one or two and that's it, you win.

    1. Ok thanks, I thought they weren't big enough, I'll enlarge them.
    2. As above.
    3. Those are gonna be "secondary" in the map. The units in the map now are ones
    I consider most important as a baseline, including 2 shipyards per player.
    I'm completely fine with the imbalance, if you can pull it off.
    But I'm only at the beginning, haven't tested much.

    In knecht's map I believe boats are used as a novelty, since there's an island that can be reached.
    Mechanically-wise, it only adds to the melee without changing it much.

    Your analogy to oil and water ... doesn't mix well :D

    Map is nowhere near done, I'm aware there's nothing to conquer, no islands.
    By my plan, I want to make small "creep" islands and places to get extra lumber.
    As you will see, lumber will be a "priority" resource as well if you plan to go naval.

    You know me so well.

    Sounds fun, will play it, maybe even now.

    It will be like that, but I think the undead shipyards will enhance the gameplay.
    Since my opinion is biased, and I would of like to see water in melee, as in WC2.

    And yes, once the islands have been created and polished, I will add shallow water.
    But like I said before, naval will be a way faster and deadlier way than massing an army with a hero
    instead of a few ambush parties and an armada of gunships. Its a tactic?!

    First of all, shipyards aren't invulnerable. I'm fine with the idea of players going and destroying them.
    But imagine if you could control them? And you still have air units, heroes and normal units.
    Sure, massing gunships will be a high risk, high reward tactic. But investments like those in-game
    either make or break your game. So in a way, it will be an optional thing. They will be heavily guarded

    I know its not balanced for water game. But you have only two ships, the raft and frigate.
    One of which you can only obtain after taking a ship from the goblin shipyard, which will also be
    heavily guarded.

    Your 9mm analogy also doesn't fly :D bullets don't bounce.. but idk, I don't own a gun.


    Solid idea, especially about a central island. Also goblin lab would be great there true.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2019
  3. XanderD

    XanderD

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    "doesn't take a telepath to know what you're thinkin'"
    - Sarah Kerrigan


    It would be pretty, but in every map where you can also have air units, they will be superior - and can be produced more reliably.

    But another thing for a water-heavy map: There are some creeps that have amphibious movement like the Mur'gul Snarecaster or the Giant Sea Turtle - both of which are sold in the Sunken Ruins Mercenary Camp. Plus there's always the option with runes of rebirth.


    The undead shipyards are not, the goblin shipyards are. So transports could be available throughout the entire game.


    9mm rounds can bounce quite nicely - people who carry guns in their jobs are even taught how to abuse this like where to aim on the asphalt to hit someone who is crouching behind the engine block of a car.


    Overall I too don't think your the boat-concept would work out for a competitive melee map. If at all then perhaps only when there's no goblin lab and thus at least transports have to be bought to get everywhere. If there's no place on the map only reachable by naval transport, these shipyards would just end up as doodads. There were also some maps with shipyards in the last contest and you could watch WTii's review video on youtube to hear what he said about that.
     
  4. Keito

    Keito

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    My entry:

    The Consortium

    May not be final yet. Playtesting to be done n prolly small changes.
     
  5. FranzVader_CZ

    FranzVader_CZ

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    As I see you guys are really active so I start to move also.

    WIP
    Westfall Renewal
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    first submition!! gonna see it later

    Sentinel Hill, defias Brotherhood, deadmines,

    https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/4-stairs-of-destiny-w3x.319301/
    almost done the borders, and re-thinking the sleep of the creeps.

    Public Statement: Black citadel / Outland creeps such as succubi, draenei, fell guards, infernal machines, eredar mages, void walkers, dont sleep.
    fell beast sleeps but L5 and L7 have mana burn and devour magic.
    black citadel creeps they are very hard to balance when you need creeps that sleep or safe ranged units.
    End of transmision.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  7. FranzVader_CZ

    FranzVader_CZ

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    And first basic idea... 1/4 of map
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    camara limits breaks inmersion, the map should be designed in such way that you dont see the camara limits wich ends in black line,
    if you dont understand my point read Melee Mapping contest #3 - Results
    the reviews of the 3rd contest, about the camara limits, if you dont know how to fix it, see my map or @Keito map, in Keito map cliff and void , dont allow you to reach the camara limits with land units. You can fix it with cliff or deep water.
     
  9. Restor

    Restor

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    I just wonder where the heck did you guys find the time for the maps? I didnt even start.

    I just came up with a name for my map - Hill & Bridges (yes, just like that lawyer firm, pun intended) and that it will be a Village theme, something like Terenas Stand, but for 2v2 players Hill_Bridges.jpg
     
  10. mmtt

    mmtt

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    that's easy you just associate 25% of time spent on from your other map to this
     
  11. Frigates attack air too. Has been that way since WC2.
    Air is gonna have a big disadvantage in the map, since the above is true and:
    8 shipyards, 3 frigates per sell, at 250 gold and 100 lumber.
    if you just own 2, you make 6 frigates for 1500 gold and 600 lumber instantly.
    shipyards restore 1 frigate per 1 minute.

    Giant sea turtles sound interesting too, good call.


    The transport ships are intended to be available all game.

    That's new to me, didn't know that some bullets bounce. Like I said, I don't own nor have interest in real guns.

    I don't think it will work either, in the way WC3 is now. Which is why the plan was to allow multiple shipyard
    access at the cost of resources. Its because the shipyard is vulnerable is what put the nail in the coffin for me.
    Since once they are gone, they're gone makes it playable. That's why I think I should go for it, even if you
    and others say otherwise.

    "tychus, what have you done?"
    I made a deal with the devil jimmy.
     
  12. Sorry for double posting, but since its a WIP #3 and I really need this checked by the judges.
    You can see the images the editor says melee map: yes. So if no rules have been broken
    with this following update, I'd like to make this my final WIP.

    Changes:

    1. Creeps and towers have been added, all under neutral hostile.
    Side creeps have been added, bandits and sappers.


    gs3.jpg

    2. Paths have been made between gold mine isles blocked with a short layer of lumber.

    for ally islands, this will allow you and your ally mutual control and benefit of the shipyards.
    for enemy islands, this means you can be ambushed from that side.


    gs3-path.jpg

    3. The paths lead towards a bridge that connects you to the undead shipyard islands.
    They are well guarded, but there is an alternate path...

    gs3-bridge.jpg

    4. Added side ways into the main base, naval only and blocked by lumber.
    Both sides have creeps, one side has a shop/merc.

    gs3-isles.jpg


    Map has been tested once with AI, but it doesn't perform well... yet.
    Its fun no doubt :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2019
  13. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    One thing is the melee map yes stated in the editor.
    And other thing is the melee status used in Hiveworkshop maps.
    It seems the melee map yes is not good enough to restrain the concept of melee, after all is just a machine telling us what melee is instead of defining it ourself.

    I remember that I was not allowed to upload melee maps using racial units as neutral units (I used a hero as neutral hostile).

    So if your map where submited here in the Hive. I think at this point it may be considered as an altered melee.

    The Shipyards are ok they are melee units, but the undead shipyard and the human towers are racial units,

    the undead shipyard and the war boats are not melee units, they are campaing units, a definition of melee could be that only melee units can be used, not campaing ones wich were created for the campaing of ROC and TFT, Is like Raynor or Tychus of SC2, you cant use them in melee.

    I am starting to think that if an undead shipyard is allowed, then a Human shop as neutral pasive could be allowed,

    There is a rule that says "No custom units",
    that rule can be considered in many wide ways, like only melee units, or custom units also include the campaing units, or that they are allowed,
    there is a void in the rule itself. For the future I would change the rule "no custom units" for "only melee units can be used".

    @mafe

    "All submissions must follow the current theme. If any submission does not fit, a moderator will tell you as soon as possible as to avoid confusion."

    1) Campaign units are allowed in melee?
    2) Racial units are allowed as neutral hostile or neutral pasive in melee?
    3) neutral pasive units (sapper) are allowed as neutral hostiles?

    If you ask me , I would say 1) no, 2) no, 3) no, but my voice has no authority in the present situation.

    I agree that is needed to ask. if @sentrywiz submition is following the current theme, because I can´t tell anymore if is or not melee, the editor may say yes, but my mind whispers says:" mmm no".


    edit:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  14. mafe

    mafe

    Map Reviewer

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    Yes, as long as it says "melee map: yes", the map is technically eligible to enter the contest.
     
  15. I'm happy about that, and I do intend to polish it up with the rest of the time
    so it doesn't feel awkward and imbalanced.

    I might change the name of the map if that's okay too, because Vent.Co faction from WoW was an
    inspiration for the whole shipyard piratey theme, also for the creep choices. I'm not sure on a new name
    yet, but I do have to use Vent.Co somewhere in the map, either name or description because I feel that
    would add to the map theme.

    Undead shipyard though, and other shipyards, don't train units in a normal way though,
    they are more like merc camps. You could add a human shop as neutral passive too,
    but it wouldn't be invulnerable.

    I think if people can find a unique way to enrich the melee with neutral hostile or neutral passive
    versions of "standard melee" or campaign units, better. Because its all vanilla assets, no custom units,
    no triggers. But only making only the standard melee maps in the same way, over and over? Isn't that bit boring?
     
  16. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    I cancelled my previous text after mafe statement. I recant what I wrote.

    map layout

    upload_2019-3-27_8-48-15.png
     
  17. Meerel

    Meerel

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  18. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Please upload it here in Maps | HIVE



    as mentioned in the contest rules:
     
  19. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  20. Meerel

    Meerel

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    its not the final version so why should i upload it here. there still a month to go so i will upload it here when its done

    was just for a quick look for the other participants
     
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