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Reforged Warcraft III Reforged - Community Feedback

Discussion in 'Patch Discussion' started by Archian, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. Sieben

    Sieben

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    Campaigns, lore, cutscenes
    • I would like to know how far Blizzard is planning to go with campaigns: is there going to be a full revamp of all the maps, like Stratholme in the demo, or just a few adjustments here and there? Also, how common will references to WoW be? I really hope there won't be too much of them. I have seen a lot of people concerned about how WoW seemed to be everywhere in Reforged. As some people previously suggested, ok with a bit of WoW connection when appropriate, but not too much. And please, don't change all campaign maps to fit WoW's environment. We wouldn't feel like we are playing Warcraft III but a whole different game as a replacement, and it is not what anybody has asked for.
    • However, I understand it may be a good approach to remove or change some stuff from Warcraft III, like the Greek columns that a developer mentionned recently. They don't look so good and don't match the overall style of Warcraft (Warcraft 1 and 2, and WoW too). I'd be happy if some detailed like that were tweaked, but please keep it reasonnable.
    • Generally speaking, I would suggest to keep WoW aside as much as possible. Many people don't like WoW, because of its style, or its lore, or whatever. In my case, I stopped WoW because of the lore becoming too disconnected with the first three Warcrafts, and also because of some aesthetics and gameplay choices. And yet, I am a huge fan of Warcraft. Anyway, my point is that Blizzard should remaster Warcraft III so it looks like Warcraft III and respect its spirit and atmosphere, not WoW or HotS.
    • And speaking of WoW: please, no retcon... I agree with what someone said about this: it is not the players' fault if WoW didn't follow the previous games (when it should have...). It is really annoying that the story changes every once in a while to fits some obscure gameplay purposes. Leave the story as it is as much as possible, and I'd be grateful forever.
    • More specifically, from what I have seen in Stratholme mission:
      • The map of Stratholme looks very small compared to the original one. I read someone saying that the original mission felt like there was an urgency and a lot of tension because the town is huge and there are so many people to "save"... Let's quote him: "Stratholme being reduced in size takes away another important part of that chapter. The sense of hopelessness that came when you entered the city and realized how big it was and impossible it was to truly save anyone or even stop the plague from leaving the city had an impact on the player and seemed to have one on Arthus too" (Hoovehead, from Grubby's feedback video)
      • Why hiding the purple undead base? In the original mission, it wasn't hidden. Just make it hard to attack, and then it's up to the player to decide whether to attack the enemy base or focus on the plagued citizens. Either choice will have repercussions, since attacking the base will be a waste of time. But don't hide stuff from us, like you did in SC2, it's not necessary and it feels too different from classic Warcraft III.
      • In the bottom left corner, we saw an orc grunt and two Darkspear troll headhunters: are they gonna stay there, or was it just for demo purposes? An orc here, ok why not, maybe he got lost, but it's not too startling to have an orc in Lordaeron. But two Darkspear trolls, that's very uncanny considering the fact that by that time, most of these guys have sailed to Kalimdor with Thrall!
      • I read many comments about the cutscenes being a bit off. This is quite true; in the first cutscene, you don't feel the tension that mission is supposed to have. One of the key moment is when Arthas climbs up the small hill, talking to his troops - it is pretty intense, but there is nothing like it in Reforged. In Reforged, characters are too stiff, they sound almost like they are talking about the weather. And close-ups are too... close. It would be more appropriate to have a view of the scene from a distance, so we can take the measure of what is really going on and who is there.
      • What is about those hay carts? They are huge! Bring on the hay! No, seriously, their size needs to be dramatically reduced :)
    • Is the prequel campaign Exodus of the Horde going to be remasterd too?

    Audio
    • I would be disappointed if there was too much audio re-recording, because sounds are a very important part of the game and the atmosphere relies on it a lot... But most of all, it has a strong connection with nostalgia! Think about us old fans :)
    • Therefore, I would be very happy if current audio was remastered in high quality, instead of replacing it with new material.
    • However, I wouldn't mind if more audio was to be added, but without removing the existing one: new music, new ambient sounds, new weapon and spell sounds, etc. It would add more diversity.
    • If you really can't refrain from changing the audio, please give us the choice to switch back to the good old sounds.

    World Editor
    • One of my main concern is about compatibility between current projects and Reforged. Blizzard stated that older stuff should be working, but I can't help fearing it might not. Please, try as hard as you can so all our stuff doesn't break!
    • There are tons of great suggestions about World Editor, for those who don't know themn it's here: and here
    • With Reforged new graphics, current custom models will not be used, because they would feel out of place. In addition, 3D modeling and texturing will be much harder than before, because high-poly models and high-definition textures won't be easily accessible for beginners. Also, the process of modeling is likely to much longer, since models are more complex. Therefore, at least at the beginning and probably for a long time, the modding community will have two choices: either dealing with the existing Reforged assets and nothing more, or stick to the original game in order to use the numerous and fantastic custom models we have. So, my question is: apart from providing the tools that was used to make Reforged models, is there any plan to help the modding community with this issue? For example, would it be conceivable that Blizzard provide some new assets that was not in the original game, in addition to the remasterd assets?
    • Will all new World Editor functionalities be available for modders who don't own Reforged?
    • Any plan to make walkable walls? When I saw those walls in the Culling of Stratholme demo, I immediately thought of this.
    • I'd love an option to control, via triggers, the speed and intensity of the trees and plants bouncing, in order to create wind effects and awesome atmospheres!
    • I light a candle every night to have multi-language management for maps and campaigns, and to have an advanced building button like in Warcraft 2 or Starcraft... :)

    Graphics and art
    • Some people and I tried to provide feedback with many specific ideas and suggestions about visual changes here.
    • In a nutshell:
      • Most units look quite nice overall, but some are not recognizable enough (footmen, ghouls...), and some look like plastic figurines (grunts, taurens).
      • Many units have proportion issues: oversized weapons and armours (especially spaulders), tiny heads, grunts looking too bulky...
      • Buildings seem to be out of place, looking like plastic toys. Also, they are too round/curvy - don't be afraid to keep them linear (walls generally are linear!)
      • Balance between realism and cartoony design should be adjusted. Right now, it looks like environment, units and buildings come from three separate games. Graphics are quite inconsistent. Units are somewhat realistic, except for some oversized or undersized parts, while buildings are way too cartoony. Environment is too bright, too smooth.
      • Overall artstyle should be as close as possible as the original Warcraft III spirit and atmosphere.
      • Also, any plan to make shadows follow the sun? Shadows keep the same orientation at any time of the day, it would be interesting if they didn't (and to have an option to deactivate the rotation, for interior maps for example)

    As a conclusion, I would like to say there are many things that would need to be improved, but there is still time before the game is released. Anyway, I hope Warcraft III will stay Warcraft III.
    But I don't want to sound like an ungrateful child: I am worried about many things, but I am also thrilled that Warcraft III is getting some love again, I appreciate a lot how the classic team is so committed and passionate, and I'm very happy that the community will be listened to. Thanks for that. If everything goes well, the game should be a blast.

    I'll try to edit this post when I think of more feedback.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  2. Razorclaw_X

    Razorclaw_X

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    You can actually do this already, even if it is in a hacky sort of way, using the Eat Tree ability and specially-created models (the latter being the biggest reason why it's not that common).
     
  3. titans_zealot

    titans_zealot

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    Oh darn. I hope they don't go too into it.

    The pitlord bug, I think, from last I remember, doesn't allow pitlord to level up to 6
     
  4. Sverkerman

    Sverkerman

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    Yeah you are right actually, but it's a huge workaround - A native would be much better imo.
     
  5. WerBackIII

    WerBackIII

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    Having consumed almost all the information that is currently available, I gotta say I am extremely thrilled, and don't have much of a negative feedback to provide. Most of the customization options are already here, especially for map makers (including the ability to change the UI!).

    That said, as others have said, unit proportions are way out of scale. It worked for the original game due to its comical style, but the stylization of Reforged does not allow for such discrepancies in size. Heroes are towering behemoths when compared to the generic units, and while this works for the Dreadlord and other "unique race" hero units, it really makes Uther, Jaina and Arthas stand out as sore thumbs.


    And I do agree the option to change skins would be nice as well. As well as the option to provide an interface for new races, different than a custom map -- e.g. you just select the melee map of your preference, and 'import' a custom race or rules script through the game itself.
     
  6. Krolan

    Krolan

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    @Razorclaw_X

    I just have to ask, since you seem very confident about current version WC3-Maps being compatible with Reforged.
    Can you confirm that WoS will essencially work on Reforged?

    Greetz,
    Krolan (Big Time Fan of your Campaign)
     
  7. yxq1122

    yxq1122

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    Complete compatibility, cross-edit, and cross-play between classic and reforged versions are most important for map makers and players.

    I just concern the cross-edit of high-quality BLPs, models and sounds. Can the high-quality arts be indentified and translated into the corresponding classic ones if the map being reopened in the classic world editor such as JNGP?

    I just suggest that any map can be opened by both reforged and classic editors no matter which editor it originally made with. The classic editor can read the high-quality arts by the classic mode, while the reforged editor will try to read any art by advanced mode into high-quality version.

    In addition, not all players throughout the world will choose to use the reforged version after released. Many players from china (probably more than half of all players) prefer to use patch 1.28, 1.27a, 1.26, 1.24e or ealier of the classic version even if the classic version has been updated to patch 1.30.2, because most maps were made by YDWE which doesn't support patch 1.28+. Therefore, the reforged version should consider these maps and patches, and give compatibility as much as it can.

    The situation after the reforged wc3 released may become a bit complex like that of windows OS. New OS like Windows 10 just provides better user experience and visual effect, comparing with the old ones. Today even Windows XP are still used by people, but it will not bring troubles because any OS can work together with others no matter new or old.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  8. Darklycan51

    Darklycan51

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    Alright, posted my thread that I posted on old forums on the patch discussion forum
     
  9. Scytharius

    Scytharius

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    Art Style: Cartoonie and simplified.

    Animations: Use the same or similar from the original. (I don't like most of the new animations.)

    Models: Some models are too different from the original. Like the tauren, grunt, and footman.

    Too much change isn't good in my opinion. I would prefer just re-skins of all models and textures.

    That's all I want from reforged.
     
  10. Uncle

    Uncle

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    Some feedback:

    The art style is pretty much on point in my opinion. It's not too realistic, but also not too cartoonish, a sweet middle ground that suits Warcraft 3 perfectly. I see some complaints about it, but I really can't relate. Perhaps when they see the game running at 60 fps it will change their minds. There was obviously SOME hiccups here and there and tiny things off about the art, like maybe the Riflemen were too big, but I feel like that just comes with the territory of an an unfinished game. I noticed the special effects for abilities were using the old Warcraft 3 assets, which surprisingly stand up to the test of time extremely well. They're obviously a placeholder, and i'm thinking maybe that was what was turning some people off to the art.

    I was also happy to hear that the World Editor would be improved. I'm excited and hope that means it will be improved in more ways than what the patches you've been releasing recently have done. The patches are great and all, but I am hoping you guys REALLY open up the possibilities with the editor. It would be great if you kept it's simplicity, and just expanded on what you already have. I love being able to throw an idea for a map together in a few hours, where as with the StarCraft 2 editor, albeit powerful, it can be extremely time consuming to do the littlest thing.

    What I want:
    -Improved Editor that retains the original one's simplicity.
    -More and more editor additions: UI manipulation, increased file size limits, breaking the movement speed cap of 522, adding a PAUSE unit action that doesn't freeze cooldowns/buffs, better options for controlling units (uncommandable/uncontrollable/etc), changing alliance for a single unit, adjustable Armor formula, built in hero glow/better team color options, better sound control (play a sound for a specific player), efficient alternative to Dummy units casting spells for you, a Channel ability that allows you to create a more customized spell without the need of triggers, making abilities have their own cast points/backswings, and the list goes on.
    -Improved Matchmaking
    -Don't change anything too drastically!

    Thanks for listening Blizzard!
     
  11. Razorclaw_X

    Razorclaw_X

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    I'm fairly confident in that any of the changes being made for Reforged are already being implemented right now. It makes no sense to develop two different versions of Warcraft 3 when Warcraft 3 is already capable of handling something as simple as switching out graphic models based on context (which the game already does when you consider that between RoC and TFT there are a number of units that have completely different versions between the two-- such as the Night Elf Ballista in RoC vs the Glaive Thrower in TFT as an example). What would be interesting to see is if they can pull off doing this in Real Time like in Starcraft Remastered (and if they can-- that means we should be able to do that, too!).

    World Editor between Vanilla and Reforged will be the same editor. Believing in that gives me good reason to believe things will work in Reforged as long as I keep up with the changes/Blizzard keeps fixing the compatibility issues.
     
  12. yxq1122

    yxq1122

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    1. User-interface:
    In the propagandist video, I have noticed that the portrait of unit seems to be static in the reforged version, while the head portrait in the classic version shows animations when unit being clicked or selected. I think most players love the latter.

    The animated portrait of widget is a very popular feature of wc3, and should be inherited by the reforged version.

    2. Some tiny suggestions:
    The Tauren's weapon (wood) seems to be a bit thick, and the wood's color seems to be not very natural.
    The tree needs more 3D elements to enable it to be more natural. Some additional animations such as fluttering in wind and rain weathers, can be considered.

    3. Custom campaign:
    The custom campaign can support multiple-player gaming.

    4. World editor:
    • It has come to the key point to add some necessary features including map encryption and easy to plug in.
    • Is it possible to allow the artists to update their old models and skins into new high resolution versions by using the reforged 3D modelling tool? I think it is also important to provide compatibility for cross-edit of arts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  13. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    I'm worried that there won't be that many custom models because the entry level barrier for making custom models of equal quality is just too high.
    If they really just toned down the level of detail this would help immensely.
    Either that or at least provide some toolkit for modders to use, similiar to what Valve has done in the past.
     
  14. Veldris

    Veldris

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    I want an select all on imports so i can delete faster plz this is my wish simple ey? plz
     
  15. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    ^ Or shift+select/drag select for multiple imports.
    And icon paths being a toggle option so i don't have to copypaste paths with all icons.
    That would save a workload.
     
  16. Veldris

    Veldris

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    yes!!
     
  17. fenix140

    fenix140

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    I do not know if this question has been repeated, but if it was not the case, I'll mention it.

    - If they change the models to another type of extension. Models with Mdl and Mdx extensions can leave it in the game and be functional in the new engine, so that at least the old Custom and original maps are playable in the Reforged. This could be of help to the recycling of resources, for diversity and to keep the maps with old models Customizable for any map within the new editor.
     
  18. Misha

    Misha

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    I just hope the model code doesn't get messed up 'u'
     
  19. 00110000

    00110000

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    Hoping for SC2's save/load functionality and maybe an editor option to use it's armor/unit weapon system (flat amount reduced rather than % reduction) / each unit in the obj editor can have its own weapon type.

    (e.g. Archer deals pierce damage vs Archer deals +5 to Light and +0 to others, and a Rifleman that also had piercing now deals +5 to Light +5 to Medium and +0 to others)

    Functionality to change what abilities a hero learns in the learn interface.
    Interface option/functionality to show the hotkey button on ability icons.
    Have a hero unit that does not use str agi or int.
    Customization for loading screen load bar interface.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  20. item

    item

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    Did anyone else notice until now that there are only 4 slots for spells in the current interface, while there have been 6 previously? I guess that breaks a lot of backward compatibility if they don't have a mechanism to solve ...