Warcraft 3 1.28 Pre-patch PSA

[Kam]

With bnet 2.0, hosting might be a thing of the past. I have high hopes for this... I was asking for bnet 2.0 for WC3 for years and now it seems like it might actually be a thing soon.

That's the plan!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

That's the plan!

I'm excited. I hope this will make some people go back to WC3 from SC2.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Like SC2? I don't want this.

 

[SpasMaster]

7:30
So, a lot of changes to the World Editor. That's all I needed to hear! So excited.

 

[cacbo]

@brad_c6
What is a reason for delaying so much server latency change on bnet?
In the past years and many bots running games successfully with much lower latency then bnet ones do, can't we conclude that that would be pretty safe to change?

 

[Drayen]

In first of all, I should say: "Great news everyone!"

And it is so. AFAIK, SC2 did hit required revenue, but not much more than that (due to early publish policy, I believe), so we shouldn't wait for something like "WarCraft 4" in the nearby future.

Are you saying Sc2 just made enough money to start generating profits? Do you have any link/proof of this?

 

[chusrubi2]

So... will this make it harder for hackers to inject code into the main w3 files?

 

[cacbo]

^Absolutely not!

 

[chusrubi2]

^Absolutely not!

Too bad.

 

[Chaosy]

Y'all do realize they're trying to get a 15 years old game step up to today's standards, while still trying to be both innovative and to preserve as much as possible without causing damage to already existing stuff?

I, for once, am excited about these news, happy to see that Blizzard has decided to spend some time retouching a game that isn't as nearly as profitable nowadays as some of their more recent creations.

But then again, there's a fine line between being afraid that the upcoming patch might break stuff, and between just being a sour bitch.


To conclude, by integrating a new patching device it will allow for much more frequent "on the spot" fixes which will not call for server downs, scheduled maintenance, and will usually go past in a flinch of an eye. This means a more pro-active response from Blizzard, as they genuinely seem interested on trying to achieve some higher goal we, the Hive users, have set up as a "wish list". It goes both ways, really.

Not really.
I do not expect some kind of HD model update I do not expect new gameplay.

But I expected more than:
"We changed a hard coded limitation" with other words "We changed a variable" (8mb limit increased)

And sadly that's the only useful thing we got as far as I know.

 

[Ezekiel12]

It's becoming clear that wc3 will lose a lot of its quirks and traditional ways in the next years.
This upsets many of the old advanced modders which are afraid of irrelevant knowledge and of a watered down version of wc3 which is less potent modding wise as our current wc3.

But Blizzard really tries to revive wc3 for the masses. It's clear that for a company which has to operate in reality and not in the bounds of a fan's dream it's this or nothing. And I salute Blizzard for that.

I have just one wish (next to my endless patch wish list), please provide detailed change logs for the patches somewhere.

Thanks to all people working at Blizzard with a passion for wc3!

 

[Dr Super Good]

Hope they don't harm host bots, I can't host myself.

It is worth pointing out that within the next few years everyone should be able to peer-to-peer host. IPv6 should spell the end for consumer and carrier grade NATs, the reason why people cannot host.

What is a reason for delaying so much server latency change on bnet?
In the past years and many bots running games successfully with much lower latency then bnet ones do, can't we conclude that that would be pretty safe to change?

I believe the robots do some kind of dynamic optimization of latency. This is a feature that would needed to be engineered in, and not something that is a simple constant change.

Setting the value as a constant that is too low might make WC3 unplayable for some people.

 

[TriggerHappy]

I'm glad they're working on the game again. I mean, either the game will for sure eventually die off, or they can hopefully revive it with updates. There's nothing to lose really since all the old patches will still exist.

Like SC2? I don't want this.

Yeah, it might not allow people to make maps with other game rips, or even maps based off of something trademarked.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Yeah, it might not allow people to make maps with other game rips, or even maps based off of something trademarked.

Seeing how most WC3 maps that were based off trademarked content are kind of rubbish anyway... Let us not forget that the content owners might not be happy with someone making such a thing in the first place, even if it is for WC3.

Main problem people have with the SC2 arcade and publishing maps is that there are strict censorship guidelines due to SC2's international nature. For example one is not really allowed to make reference to historical events, country names, real life illegal substances, sexual content, smoking, children, etc.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

You further represent and warrant that you will not use or contribute User Content that is unlawful, tortious, defamatory, obscene, invasive of the privacy of another person, threatening, harassing, abusive, hateful, racist or otherwise objectionable or inappropriate. Blizzard may remove any User Content and any related content or elements from Battle.net at its sole discretion.

That is the sole theme of my maps?

Edit: Besides, how can you label content as e.g. racist? So if it includes single act of racism, the content is racist as a whole? This is very ignorant, we should evaluate individual actions/factors instead of throwing a label on a product because one part of it can be interpreted as pro/anti-something.

Edit 2: Also, by adding stricter regulations later on, you are negatively impacting the existing map pool that has been forming for 15 years.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Not really
I do not expect some kind of HD model update I do not expect new gameplay.

But I expected more than:
"We changed a hard coded limitation" with other words "We changed a variable" (8mb limit increased)

And sadly that's the only useful thing we got as far as I know.

Both are impossible to achieve - HD models would force a more heavy approach on users' PC performance which is an instant no, while new gameplay isn't necessary with possibilities of custom maps existing for over a decade.

As I've said, Warcraft brings dramatically lower income than other current Blizz games (taking in consideration that in Wc3 you can only buy the game, while in for example HotS, you can buy the game AND later you can buy skins, animations, voicelines and such, in such a way that even if you buy everything, more will eventually come), and is thus very logical for them to direct the very basic maintenance on Warcraft while having more people orientated on their current money makers. You might think of it as "sad" or "forgetting the basics", but it's how the world works, and you really can't add such a currency maker in old games.

I do want to remember, not just you but entire community and especially the ones who are so sour that lemons shrink near them, that Blizzard decided to start working on Warcraft 3 again mostly because we kept pressing on and on and eventually came up with a list of suggestions that could be done to make mapmaking easier. Remember that Blizzard, while having little and limited to offer for the gaming community, decided to work on improving the mapmaking community - and it's the very least that we can thank for.

As an initiation, they've apparently decided for Battle net 2.0 and a new patching device, where our focus is on the latter one - with a possibility to execute (incredibly faster and) more frequent patches, we can now finally directly see the changes we're wanting to see. The problem with the old patcher is that even if they did some of our suggestions, if it didn't work or if it caused issues or needed more work - it would call for another patch which is a very problematic feat in it's own for a game that is made for 2000th generation of PCs. That's very possibly the reason of slow patches in the past - considering the amount of time and energy spent on those, motivation to execute everything we as a community would want was surely lacking. It's not like we wanted to fix only broken stuff, we mostly wanted extras to make our lives easier, which taking in consideration very slow execution time and awful old patching 2000 system - just didn't happen.

To conclude my wall of text once again, we should not consider this as "Oh for fuck's sake, yet another "useless" update."
We should consider this patch as a "Finally, a patch that will allow both the community and the development team to cooperate with much more efficiency between each other, on a stunningly faster pace, with much less hassle for the developers and much less frustration for the community itself."

In short, to have a cake, you ought to have a bowl.

On a side note, thanks for all the rep guys

 

[Deleted member 219079]

rep

Yes, in form of receiving rep (which can't be hidden, very strategical move in Hive 2.0), you're encouraged to continue being zealous over protecting reformation. You've initially had pro-reformation values and now in form of environment promoting said values you further want to keep on fighting the scum that is people's concerns over the matter.

I for one can see that we're heading towards totalitarianism, where we willingly submit maps as data they can use as evidence against us. Then they're able to push their agenda, by censoring people who oppose their values and norms.

Late edit (27.3.): I can start collecting evidence of Blizzard not being neutral since it is so ridiculous of me to not be extreme left.

Hidden

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Yes, in form of receiving rep (which can't be hidden, very strategical move in Hive 2.0), you're encouraged to continue being zealous over protecting reformation. You've initially had pro-reformation values and now in form of environment promoting said values you further want to keep on fighting the scum that is people's concerns over the matter.

I for one can see that we're heading towards totalitarianism, where we willingly submit maps as data they can use as evidence against us. Then they're able to push their agenda, by censoring people who oppose their values and norms.

You do know that no one's posts were deleted on this thread? But the ironic thing is that this is completely off-topic with nothing to do with Warcraft. If you have any real problems with censorship or "totalitarianism on the Hive" (lol), go make a thread in site discussion, staff contact, etc.

I don't think you know how many reports we reject daily because we feel that the community will do what it does itself. Quite a few reports were from this thread, but we felt that expressing opinions even in pessimistic ways isn't something to intervene with if they're in the bounds of the rules. So of course we prefer realistic and optimistic approaches to pessimistic ones. But we're not going to regulate it unless it breaks the rules. Simple.

Warcraft =/= politics. Politics go hand in hand and everything, but really, this is not the place. If you want to continue this conversation, I can move it to site discussion or staff contact so it's on-topic.

 

[_lycan]

That is the sole theme of my maps?

Edit: Besides, how can you label content as e.g. racist? So if it includes single act of racism, the content is racist as a whole? This is very ignorant, we should evaluate individual actions/factors instead of throwing a label on a product because one part of it can be interpreted as pro/anti-something.

Edit 2: Also, by adding stricter regulations later on, you are negatively impacting the existing map pool that has been forming for 15 years.

Why are you trying to create drama out of nowhere, have you seen the patch?

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

@jondrean,

If you have concerns about my opinion, express it here so we can debate. If it's about me as a user/person, express it either directly to me or submit a post to adequate forum. If it's about how the site works, where's it heading and what will it be, there's even a forum for that. Excuse you, but your post has no value to the topic or my opinion on the topic in general, so I doubt is of any usefulness to general good
If you need help managing your way to either forums let me know and I'll kindly link you them, but please refrain from being off-topic for the sake of expressing your opinion on a completely different subject than current.

But, to satisfy your curiosity, I'm not writing any of these for reputation. I've over 2000 and I don't think it's of any good nor do I carry it as an elitist's badge, and besides, legit 95% of it came from my resources. It's the fact that I'm (mostly) a sensible person, and therefore, my words are usually worthy of listening to - hence was I a former staff member and still am a respected member of the community.

 

[Chaosy]

Both are impossible to achieve - HD models would force a more heavy approach on users' PC performance which is an instant no, while new gameplay isn't necessary with possibilities of custom maps existing for over a decade.

As I've said, Warcraft brings dramatically lower income than other current Blizz games (taking in consideration that in Wc3 you can only buy the game, while in for example HotS, you can buy the game AND later you can buy skins, animations, voicelines and such, in such a way that even if you buy everything, more will eventually come), and is thus very logical for them to direct the very basic maintenance on Warcraft while having more people orientated on their current money makers. You might think of it as "sad" or "forgetting the basics", but it's how the world works, and you really can't add such a currency maker in old games.

I do want to remember, not just you but entire community and especially the ones who are so sour that lemons shrink near them, that Blizzard decided to start working on Warcraft 3 again mostly because we kept pressing on and on and eventually came up with a list of suggestions that could be done to make mapmaking easier. Remember that Blizzard, while having little and limited to offer for the gaming community, decided to work on improving the mapmaking community - and it's the very least that we can thank for.

As an initiation, they've apparently decided for Battle net 2.0 and a new patching device, where our focus is on the latter one - with a possibility to execute (incredibly faster and) more frequent patches, we can now finally directly see the changes we're wanting to see. The problem with the old patcher is that even if they did some of our suggestions, if it didn't work or if it caused issues or needed more work - it would call for another patch which is a very problematic feat in it's own for a game that is made for 2000th generation of PCs. That's very possibly the reason of slow patches in the past - considering the amount of time and energy spent on those, motivation to execute everything we as a community would want was surely lacking. It's not like we wanted to fix only broken stuff, we mostly wanted extras to make our lives easier, which taking in consideration very slow execution time and awful old patching 2000 system - just didn't happen.

To conclude my wall of text once again, we should not consider this as "Oh for fuck's sake, yet another "useless" update."
We should consider this patch as a "Finally, a patch that will allow both the community and the development team to cooperate with much more efficiency between each other, on a stunningly faster pace, with much less hassle for the developers and much less frustration for the community itself."

In short, to have a cake, you ought to have a bowl.

On a side note, thanks for all the rep guys

More like:
Promising a cake and delivering a pile of shit.

Just getting us excited for no reason, I feel only disappointment.

 

[DracoL1ch]

As I've said, Warcraft brings dramatically lower income than other current Blizz games (taking in consideration that in Wc3 you can only buy the game, while in for example HotS, you can buy the game AND later you can buy skins, animations, voicelines and such, in such a way that even if you buy everything, more will eventually come), and is thus very logical for them to direct the very basic maintenance on Warcraft while having more people orientated on their current money makers. You might think of it as "sad" or "forgetting the basics", but it's how the world works, and you really can't add such a currency maker in old games.

I do want to remember, not just you but entire community and especially the ones who are so sour that lemons shrink near them, that Blizzard decided to start working on Warcraft 3 again mostly because we kept pressing on and on and eventually came up with a list of suggestions that could be done to make mapmaking easier. Remember that Blizzard, while having little and limited to offer for the gaming community, decided to work on improving the mapmaking community - and it's the very least that we can thank for.[/COLOR]

You're contradict yourself. If it was counter-business, they wouldn't even bother. I believe they had wet dreams about Bnet2.0 with ad and sponsored content would change a thing. They also had a dream about people actually playing bnet instead of custom servers with ghost bots. So that could be good idea to revive old games, especially after big fiasco with Heroes of the Storm. Eventually their second-hand projects Overwatch and Hearstone turned to be even better deal, so classic team never had proper assets since then.

Don't play a fool thinking that some business taking care about old products just for nothing. It's always either PR, either money. I don't care what exactly driven them to start patching game, as long as they DO patch it with reasonable changes. So far no luck.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

@Chaosy,
I've explained already - they are first incorporating a more viable system to make it happen at a faster rate than two patches per year. What shall and what shall not happen is up to see yet - but if you feel like being pessimistic, be my guest. I for one believe that things are about to start happening - otherwise we wouldn't be directly involved with this process and be asked for what we need changed, fixed, or added.

@DracoL1ch,
I ain't even going to argue - you do you. I can hope you'll eat up your words once the patches start rolling - but that's yet to be seen.
However, I can kindly ask to not spread out negativism - there's a fine line between opinion and judging. Saying "They suck" is judging. "I think they will not execute this, because I believe that..." is an opinion. One requires facts and statements, other requires only to be picky

 

[DracoL1ch]

sigh. like I didn't throw enough fucts there.
0. patches are disappointing, completely utter bullshit
1. they made up a fake hype having nothing to show
2. they dont know what do they change by accident and they aren't in touch with mapmakers who can tell 'em
3. they somehow believe that ladder (rts) is the what players do want
4. they hide roadmap like somebody else from big companies cares about freaking RTS in 2017 and can't wait for a guide to steal THOSE BRILLIAND IDEAS ABOUT INCREASING MAP SIZE LIMIT
how many facts you do want except those?

as soon as patches will deliver I won't start making gods of Blizzard. It was their job to do something, and finally the did. But still I don't mind this option, cause in 2020, when it could happen, I most likely wont remain on wc3 platform.

 

[Kazeon]

I'm not opposing or siding with anyone but I think everyone have rights to have their own opinions and speak out about it. Let's try not to force our view upon the others. It's good to be positive thinking but being cautious isn't wrong either. Especially they're upset because of some real reasons. We should be thankful they bother to speak out their thoughts here so the team realize that they've took some important things, it may remind the team to give'em back or exchange it with something else (hopefully better one) one day.

But... how can we know? If only they (Blizz) bother to officially announce that one day they will definitely work on the wish list. But so far these patches seem to do more harm than the opposite, it's very normal to me that some people are freaking out, and me too honestly. But I always refrain myself from expressing my worries. Kam said that we will have a long journey, so I'd like to expect some great stuffs in the future. But one sentence in one of his post has caught my attention good (and it's been quite haunting honestly):

... This means that back-end work must happen before "exciting" changes like melee balance adjustments. ...

Well, honestly, I'm one of those who don't give a shit about some balances. But I know that those pro melee players have a lot of contributions that made these patches actually happened so I will give it some regards. But seriously, if those balances are the "exciting" changes they are talking about, I will not hesitate to join the flaming parade. Because, I have some real high expectations with all that "OMG Blizz is coming back to revive Wc3 back to it's glory!!" stuffs. If balances are all they do, and moreover, if they reduce the modding capability, I can't even imagine how will I express my disappointment when the time comes.

But back to the matter. In short, if you don't understand what makes them upset, better try not to tell them that they're thinking it wrong. Because no, they are (mostly) not wrong.

 

[Kam]

-Modding capability will not be reduced.
-I wrote "exciting" because for me the melee balance changes are not exciting, but the majority of players find that to be the important part and are discouraged when they don't get them.
-These patches will be rough at first, there is so much to change in order to head for a new battle net

There is no more to say on this issue. Those of you that don't believe Wc3 has a future or don't have anything of substance to contribute should leave.

 

[DracoL1ch]

There is no more to say on this issue. Those of you that don't believe Wc3 has a future or don't have anything of substance to contribute should leave.

What if I have proposals which COULD give wc3 some life? I mean, actualy life. More attractive for mapmakers, therefore more attractive for players. Will anyone listen? Oh wait, we had wishlist. Sure some of those ideas were worthy in the end. But still good pile of them been thrown away instantlty. And then you took them to Blizzard not like a Holy Grail but like a "miserable note of your slaves ideas to implement".

This whole thing been wrong from the very start. It's blizzard who should want to make contacts to see what can help them to make WC3 great again, not vice versa.

Kam said that we will have a long journey, so I'd like to expect some great stuffs in the future

for you and @Kam - sorry, but who gonna play this game in your future? Chinese? I can't see them playing non-chinese maps (I know there are few of those, but still they prefer their own maps with proper language). As I said before, every day is a day when you just lost another player who got attracted by any other game. Doesn't matter if you call " growning popularity", you still lost one for nothing, just because you waited too long.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

If you have concerns about my opinion, express it here so we can debate. If it's about me as a user/person, express it either directly to me or submit a post to adequate forum. If it's about how the site works, where's it heading and what will it be, there's even a forum for that. Excuse you, but your post has no value to the topic or my opinion on the topic in general, so I doubt is of any usefulness to general good
If you need help managing your way to either forums let me know and I'll kindly link you them, but please refrain from being off-topic for the sake of expressing your opinion on a completely different subject than current.

But, to satisfy your curiosity, I'm not writing any of these for reputation. I've over 2000 and I don't think it's of any good nor do I carry it as an elitist's badge, and besides, legit 95% of it came from my resources. It's the fact that I'm (mostly) a sensible person, and therefore, my words are usually worthy of listening to - hence was I a former staff member and still am a respected member of the community.

I am against personal disputes coming in between discussion for common good. In decision making such behavior is detrimental to the quality of the outcome of the discussion. But to be case specific, I have no idea who you are.

I understand me opposing your opinion makes me seem like a threat and you feel no difficulty in denying my point's relevance (in fact, I think it's healthy to stand firm in your points, otherwise you more easily submit to self censorship). So I apologize for not being more concrete in my point, to make my point come out as more easily reasonable. I will do so now: my main concern with SC2's system (which WC3 was hinted to inherit) is that we'd submit the maps to Blizzard. This is a security compromise in form of giving our data to potentially unwanted parties, but also can be held as evidence against us if Blizzard so wants.

So to me, it is a privacy concern over anything. I don't care if maps have to be updated to use newer functionality that would be replacing deprecated features. In fact, I think Blizzard is in their rights to prevent arbitrary code execution for example, and they don't have to give us anything in return, because said exploit is a critical security compromise.

Edit: StoPCampinGn00b, Darklycan51, you two could elaborate your posts' relation to my statements.

 

[Kam]

Will anyone listen? Oh wait, we had wishlist. Sure some of those ideas were worthy in the end. But still good pile of them been thrown away instantlty. And then you took them to Blizzard not like a Holy Grail but like a "miserable note of your slaves ideas to implement".

Every single item on that list is being addressed.

This whole thing been wrong from the very start. It's blizzard who should want to make contacts to see what can help them to make WC3 great again, not vice versa.

What exactly does this mean? Blizzard had already been in discussions with the pro community for some time when I contacted them. Are you suggesting that the community list is somehow less valuable because we offered it to Blizzard? They asked us to produce it, and we blew them away with the final product. As a result you have senior community members in daily contact with the people working on Wc3 and this is somehow an issue for you?

If you have a list of SPECIFIC concerns, line item, then post them. If they have not already been discussed with Blizzard I will make sure they are passed on.

 

[Kazeon]

Every single item on that list is being addressed.

Good to hear. That's all I want & need to hear tbh.

 

[DracoL1ch]

What exactly does this mean? Blizzard had already been in discussions with the pro community for some time when I contacted them. Are you suggesting that the community list is somehow less valuable because we offered it to Blizzard? They asked us to produce it, and we blew them away with the final product. As a result you have senior community members in daily contact with the people working on Wc3 and this is somehow an issue for you?

If you have a list of SPECIFIC concerns, line item, then post them. If they have not already been discussed with Blizzard I will make sure they are passed on.

My greatest concern - why 0 jass commands been added even tho more than 50 been placed in the wishlist?
Why no reasonable fixes been added [Crash] - List of WarCraft III Crashes BUT they fixed LIGHTNING crash which been a good countermeasure for a few quircks?

 

[SA Dashie]

7:26
"...Apart from that we will have a lot of stuff for the world editor, I don't know what it is I just know that it's a lot..."

This is giving me some hope and motivation that I lost along time ago.
Hope it's something actually good.
I do know that there are some bugs here and there, I do know that there is A LOT that can be added to improve the game through coding too.
I doubt that they would pick up on to many things I would be concerned with though.

 

[Kam]

My greatest concern - why 0 jass commands been added even tho more than 50 been placed in the wishlist?
Why no reasonable fixes been added [Crash] - List of WarCraft III Crashes BUT they fixed LIGHTNING crash which been a good countermeasure for a few quircks?

I do not know why the programmers go in the order they do. Priority one is upgrading back end functions so my guess would be anything related to that is being touched. I will ask specifically about jass commands and the crash list.

 

[DracoL1ch]

I do not know why the programmers go in the order they do. Priority one is upgrading back end functions so my guess would be anything related to that is being touched. I will ask specifically about jass commands and the crash list.

I'd stay quiet about background changes anytime if there would be ANYTHING in the frontend.

 

[Chaosy]

@Chaosy,
otherwise we wouldn't be directly involved with this process and be asked for what we need changed, fixed, or added.

Just because something was initiated does not mean it will actually happen.
Where is the their new MMO Titan? oh wait Blizzard canceled it.
What happened to yearly expansions in WoW?
Oh wait, they took water over their head and delivered one year too late and then took back their promise of yearly expansions.

I will stay pessimistic until proven wrong I wont give them the benefit of the doubt again.
If I am wrong - great, but it seems unlikely.

 

[hypsandar]

Wooho, finally. It took them how many years to do this? And its really an announcement. How can we know this is going to be a 100% patch release? There was announcements in the past but no releases.

 

[chusrubi2]

3. they somehow believe that ladder (rts) is the what players do want

If it's not that, enlighten us: what do players want?

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

I believe he didn't separate the modding from gaming communities, thus the confusion.
Gaming community desires a more stable Battle Net, anti AFK control, bot detection and elimination, hack preventions, and more frequently updated map pool.

 

[ShadowFlare]

Yep, this is project breaking.
Nothing like seeing a project you been trying to work on for years be squashed.

The custom MPQ is a must. Unless someone knows how to still use one, I'm out.

 

[IcemanBo]

^Read purgeandfire's post, he says it will be synced onPatch, so you could back your data up before, and then re-add it.

 

[DracoL1ch]

I believe he didn't separate the modding from gaming communities, thus the confusion.
Gaming community desires a more stable Battle Net, anti AFK control, bot detection and elimination, hack preventions, and more frequently updated map pool.

again, how many non-chinese ladder guys are active now? you know, I want many things specially for me, but im minority. So are ladder players. Custom maps is the only reason this forum even exists. And you all somehow missing that mapmakers, modding == community. Those guys who made great maps deserved to be pleasured. But surely not everyone can look for a few steps forward. Time will show who was right in this one.

 

[Apheraz Lucent]

Hey, I just stated what are desires of ladder playing community compared to mapmaking community. Chill the fuck out. Damn O.O

I'm out of this thread - there's so many sore asses I'm not even bothering.
Glad for the news in general, but some people are too difficult even for themselves to further elaborate.

 

[DracoL1ch]

im chill, dude, its just a salt. you wouldn't eat anything without a salt

 

[chusrubi2]

again, how many non-chinese ladder guys are active now? you know, I want many things specially for me, but im minority. So are ladder players. Custom maps is the only reason this forum even exists. And you all somehow missing that mapmakers, modding == community. Those guys who made great maps deserved to be pleasured. But surely not everyone can look for a few steps forward. Time will show who was right in this one.

Ladder players minority? You're wrong. Are you counting all servers (including not official ones)?

 

[Drayen]

Draco, the ladder community is still very active. How many people do you think are playing everyday on all 4 bnet gateways and netease/w3a?

 

[DracoL1ch]

Draco, the ladder community is still very active. How many people do you think are playing everyday on all 4 bnet gateways and netease/w3a?

at least ten times less than dota 1, not even speaking about dota2

 

[chusrubi2]

at least ten times less than dota 1, not even speaking about dota2

So, you have numbers?

 

[DracoL1ch]

So, you have numbers?

I have some numbers for dota. 20k CIS (iccup), 5-10k EU + 20-30k middle east (RGC), 20-40k PH (lans lol), 10-20k south America (their own servers, I dont know names), 1kk+ China (11 battles only). Now your turn.

 

[chusrubi2]

I don't have to prove anything, it's you who's stating something without reliable sources.

I want to know if what you're saying it's true (which I think it's not).

 

[Kam]

Take it elsewhere, private chat, whatever.