Forgotten Kingdoms of Azeroth - Altered Melee

[puck]

Wonderful model,interesting skills

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Thank you very much for your feedback @puck
I added a couple of screenshots to illustrate the gameplay.

 

[The Nightmare Book]

Well-well-well, what do we have here? New Naga race?

In short, I liked this Naga interpretation.
Descriptive:

1. Cool race selection menu!
2. Even its Naga feels quite fresh — I don't know if that water-styled protoss forcefield is required for buildings or just for flavor, but it seems that it is only used for the submerge ability. Am I right? Or does it provide more bonuses?
3. First melee unit is kinda cool.
4. Naga models are pretty sick. Are there any plans to release them to the public? There are some models that I haven't seen anywhere except for this map.

Nice, meleesque, playable, funny!
Like.

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Hello @The Nightmare Book ,

First of all thank you very much for your feedback and for making an entire video dedicated to my map. That's so awesome of you !

Then to answer your questions:

• The water-styled protoss forcefield (which I call rancid waters) is indeed only use for style point and to allow units to become invisible (kind of like shadow meld during the night for most night elf units). The main purpose is to be able to protect workers from early game harassment. It also allows submerged units to heal faster (like undead units on blight)
  
• Thank you for the feedback on the models. I indeed plan on releasing them soon. I'm cleaning them up right now to pass the Sanitizer test.

Have great day !

 

[Wa666r]

I've played and explored the Naga faction, and there are definitely a lot of impressive ideas here. Some of my factioneers and I were particularly excited about the water terrain mechanic; it's truly impressive that you managed to pull it off so well.

Pros:

• Rancid Water Mechanic: This is extremely impressive and fun to use, especially with the Naga's ability to hide and heal within it. The terrain deformation, the way the effects shift from waves at the edges to static when still, and the overall quality are outstanding.
  • Gameplay/Technical Downside: A major issue is that the terrain deformation and water sound effects do not dissipate. If this mechanic is intended to be a Blight equivalent, there needs to be a way to dispel it. The item that creates the pools seems to be the main culprit here.
• Race Selection UI: Exceptionally well done. I'm amazed at how you managed to get the unit lineup on the side to have movement. It looks like it took a significant amount of effort and is incredibly impressive.
• In-Race UI: The UI for the Naga race itself is also very clean and impressive.
• Custom Voicelines: A nice touch that adds a lot of character.
• Unique Marauder Model: This model is very well-executed.
• Warlock Abilities: The Warlock's first ability is enjoyable. The third ability is a little simple and perhaps unexciting, but the visual effects are top-notch.
• Siren's Third Ability: I like this ability. It's always challenging to create a unique single-target disable, and this one is neat and creative.
• Beast Tamer Concept: The whole Beast Tamer unit is cool. Having a unit that buffs other specific units offers a fun way to play.
• Zaratan: This is one of my favorite units. The concept of it acting as a mobile bunker to save a single unit by "eating" it, combined with a physical tanking ability to protect the army, is once again creative and impressive.
• Abyssal Spirit: The "Dance of the Afterlife" ability is quite engaging.
• New Heroes: The three new heroes are fun to use, creative, and unique. The Tide Empress, with her ultimate, is a particular standout.

Cons:

• Vanilla Hero Inclusion: My biggest con, and unfortunately what I consider a cardinal sin in custom faction design, is including a vanilla hero. Having the Naga Sea Witch with all her vanilla abilities feels out of place in a lineup with three other very impressive custom heroes. I judge this more harshly because the rest of the faction is so well-made.
• Inconsistent Hotkeys: When ordering structures, research, or training units, the tooltips use the standard (and my preferred) QWER-style layout. However, hero and unit abilities have their own inconsistent tooltip layouts.
• Lack of True Early Defense: While Slaves have the "Water Disguise" ability, it doesn't function as what I'd call an initial defense. Humans have Call to Arms, Orcs have Burrows, Undead start with a Ghoul, and Night Elves have Ancient attacks. These all provide a tangible deterrent in the early game; merely hiding in water is insufficient to repel an early rush.
• Fish Pond Lacks Uniqueness: The Fish Pond should ideally have a unique feature or ability. I can overlook this somewhat as it extends the water pools, but without that, it's just a farm. Other factions' food source buildings have secondary mechanics (aside from Humans): Orc Burrows attack, Moon Wells heal, and Undead Ziggurats become defensive towers. I think your Fish Pond could benefit from something interesting as well.
• Whale Thrower Theming: I'm not a fan of the Whale Thrower; I don't see how a Salamander fits in with the Naga theme at all. The concept of a beast lugging around and hurling whale carcasses is neat, but a Salamander – a creature more associated with fire and used by the Lost Ones – feels thematically jarring.
• Use of Vanilla Missiles: This isn't a major issue, but it irks me slightly because so much else in the faction is well-crafted. Seeing standard vanilla missiles on brand new units is a bit disappointing. Even a simple recolor would suffice, in my opinion.
• Vanilla Siren Ability: I'm simply not a fan of the Siren's first ability being completely vanilla.
• Some Vanilla Icons: This feels unnecessary. I wouldn't mind it as much for regular units, but they're used for hero abilities which players will see frequently. It detracts from the effort and creativity that went into designing new abilities.

Overall Impression:

I'm very impressed. Despite some glaring personal issues I have with it, I think this is one of the best Naga factions out there. I'm optimistic and look forward to seeing what else you have cooking up in the future.

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Hello @Wa666r ,

First of all thank you so much for such a detailed review. Dang, you really just went through all of my work, I'm very impressed and flattered ! The Hive's community is just gold
Hereunder is my reaction to your feedback:

Pros:

• Rancid Water Mechanic: this was a PAIN IN THE A** to implement and when it worked I decided not to touch it anymore, that's why I postponed the implementation of a dispel system (I admit that the "Torrential Stone" is a bit OP). I'm happy to see it turned out very well !
• Unique Marauder Model: thanks ! I actually just posted it yesterday on the website as several people told me they would be interested in it.
• Beast Tamer Concept: thank you. To stick with the original concept of Naga, I wanted to keep the Turtle and the Couatl. I found it interesting to add the principle of "Beast" and then the Beast Tamer (with an electrical whip ).

Cons:

• Vanilla Hero Inclusion: you are right. At first I wanted to let all the existing units (from the 4 races) and game mechanics untouched. Which means that I could not change the Naga Sea Witch, but I could not let it in the Tavern either as it wouldn't make sense. But now I realise I should give the Sea Witch brand new abilities and create a new model of a neutral hero that would have the ability of the current Sea Witch. What do you think of this idea ?
• Inconsistent Hotkeys: It should not be inconsistent. Maybe there was a problem because my World Editor was in French and the default hotkeys are not the same.
• Lack of True Early Defense: I have nothing in mind for now but if it turns out to be too hard to protect worker from harrasment early game, I will figure something out.
• Fish Pond Lacks Uniqueness: I thought about this too. I will find something
• Whale Thrower Theming: Ahah the whale thrower was a joke at first but then I thought it was too cool not to include it. But I had no idea Salamanders were fire related. I will update the model with a more aquatic creature (which will still throw whales, I will not give up on that )
• Use of Vanilla Missiles: Which vanilla missiles are you talking about ? The one from the Warlock ? Other than that I'm pretty sure they are all new.
• Vanilla Siren Ability: It's not actually . In the original game, it drained life and created a murloc upon death. In FKOA, it blocks health regeneration and reduces heal related spells effectiveness.
• Some Vanilla Icons: I s*** really h*** on icon design , that's why I tried to do as less icons as possible. However, except for Finger Of Death, I'm pretty sure all the hero abilities are brand new. What do you have in mind ?

Thank you so much for such a high quality feedback.
I will definitely update the map according to what we discussed (FKOA 1.72 soon to be !)
I will keep you updated !

Have a great day !

 

[MogulKahn]

One of the better Naga concepts I have seen on this site. What I really liked about it is your Tier 1 building units are actually Nagas instead of various water creatures.

Majority of issues I have had Wa666r already mentioned. About this attack projectile thing, I think he is mentioning that Tier 1 ranged unit that spits. I also found it a little bit strange.

About that Salamander. My suggestions is to use Dragon Turtle or a brand new Naga Brute model that was added like a week ago on this site as a base unit.

Also I would change some of the names of the units. Like Marauder. Why not Queensguard, Treasure Guard, Kelpkeeper or something like that?

Edit: One more thing I forgot to add. After one of my heroes acquired Cloack of Shadows he has lost ability to use his racial submerge ability.

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Hello MogulKahn,

Thanks for that feedback. I took good notes about the unit names. I will try to improve the Ophidian's (2d Tier 1 unit) projectile (and the model also probably as well).
There is already a turtle but the Naga brute could be a good idea to replace the Salamander.
The Cloack of Shadows makes the unit lose racial submerge ability on purpose as the 2 abilities are based on the same mechanics and it won't work together. But since Cloack of Shadows is the same as submerge but anywhere, I don't think it matters that much (except for the health regeneration granted by the submerge ability).

Cheers !

 

[Poluroslik]

Everything is great, but the main building model looks too cluttered, there are ready-made better main building models for nagas.

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Hey Poluroslik,
Thank you for your feedback. I haven't found any main buildings that were really my taste that's why I made a new one. But I will consider removing some parts to make it less clutterd.
Cheers !

 

[deepstrasz]

Quite a great impementation of naga from what we've seen over the years.
Imagine a whole campaign!

Approved.

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[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Thanks for your review !
Ahah yeah I thought about a campaign project but I think I need to fix everything that has been mentionned before.

Cheers !

 

[Kyrbi0]

Haven't tried this yet (hopefully someday), but good work on fleshing out the Naga; it's every faction-designer's dream to do so (mine included, lol), and it sounds like you've done a bang-up job. (I'm particularly jealous of the "water-pylon" thing; I came up with that a decade or so ago but just never got around to Making It, lol. Story of my life)

Also it's very cool that you're working on releasing all the custom assets you designed; that's a boon to the community, so thanks!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Double-post but it's substantive so I think it'll slide:

One note for the Naga Sea Witch issue: I'm actually quite sympathetic to this, and have thought a lot about how best to resolve such situations, and my solution has been a sort of exciting theory-crafting/mental design challenge (which I may someday put into practice). I haven't finalized all the details, but I'll post what I have below:

So the issue is, you want to use a Hero, but you don't require keeping the abilities as they are (functionally/mechanically), and you don't want to mess with the balance of the game as-is. If that's the situation, then you must preserve the mechanical function of the hero (it's stats, abilities, etc)... but you don't have to keep anything else, anything "non-mechanical". Preserve the 'Function' while changing the 'Form', as it were. I believe there are two primary ways to go about this; both free up the primary 'thematic concept' of the Hero (e.g. its name, model, texture, animations, icon, proper names, tooltips, etc), but vary in how in-depth (lol) they are, and whether you get to keep the abilities (thematically) as well:

(OPTION 1) Simply replace Hero 'theme', freeing up the concept of the Hero (name & model), while keeping abilities fully identical (Thematically & Mechanically)
//frees up just the Hero conceptually

(OPTION 2) Replace both Hero 'theme' and Ability themes (e.g. a complete Thematic rework for the Tavern Hero, maintaining only Mechanical/Gameplay fidelity)
//frees up both the Hero & Abilities conceptually (if reworked mechanically).


So for Option 1, you just need to come up with a new "hero concept" that would fit a ranged INT archer hero (must still be an archer somehow because of "Cold Arrows", grr), with the standard skillset of the NSW:
-Forked Lightning
-Cold Arrows
-Mana Shield
=Tornado

Such a hero could be a Kul Tiran character, maybe a "Tide Hag" or an "Arch-Witch"? You could instead envision a sort of "Storm Elemental" (though why it would shoot arrows is a problem to solve), maybe? Perhaps a bow-wielding Orcish 'shaman' of the Stormreaver clan?


On the other hand, for Option 2, you really open up the floor for a design challenge. You now just have to design a Ranged INT hero (no longer necessarily an archer), with the following abilities (presented mechanically, stripping out all thematic elements:
-forked Direct Damage spell (possibly with lightning SFX)
-autocast "arrow" ability (+Damage & Slow)
-toggled "mana-for-life" shield
=channeling summon (mobile, Damage-over-Time vs. Bldgs, Slowing/Disabling (periodically) vs. Units)

Considering that you can change basically everything 'aesthetic' about each of these abilities (e.g. names, tooltips, SFX, concept) as well as the Hero, you can really go wild. Here's just one example I thought up (all placeholder names):

"Elven Arch-Sorceress"
-"Magic Missile" (replace lightning with regular missiles)
-"Bolts of Lethargy/Chill-shot" (instead of arrows, magical 'Slow' energy or maybe just 'Ice' element, augmenting her regular magical projectile)
-"Aegis On/Off" (same)
="Arcane Flux" (like a big black hole or arcane singularity or whatever)

And then of course, you get to have a "Naga Sea Witch" (name/model/icon/etc) with "Forked Lightning", "Cold Arrows", "Mana Shield", and "Tornado" in your faction (all with different mechanical functionality, though), without worrying about ruining the game balance.

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Haven't tried this yet (hopefully someday), but good work on fleshing out the Naga; it's every faction-designer's dream to do so (mine included, lol), and it sounds like you've done a bang-up job. (I'm particularly jealous of the "water-pylon" thing; I came up with that a decade or so ago but just never got around to Making It, lol. Story of my life)

Also it's very cool that you're working on releasing all the custom assets you designed; that's a boon to the community, so thanks!

Hello Kyrbi0,
Thank you for your message.
Yes I try to release all the models I have been working on, but it takes some time because some need to be cleaned quite a lot and I'm also currently working on a different project at the same time

Double-post but it's substantive so I think it'll slide:

One note for the Naga Sea Witch issue: I'm actually quite sympathetic to this, and have thought a lot about how best to resolve such situations, and my solution has been a sort of exciting theory-crafting/mental design challenge (which I may someday put into practice). I haven't finalized all the details, but I'll post what I have below:

So the issue is, you want to use a Hero, but you don't require keeping the abilities as they are (functionally/mechanically), and you don't want to mess with the balance of the game as-is. If that's the situation, then you must preserve the mechanical function of the hero (it's stats, abilities, etc)... but you don't have to keep anything else, anything "non-mechanical". Preserve the 'Function' while changing the 'Form', as it were. I believe there are two primary ways to go about this; both free up the primary 'thematic concept' of the Hero (e.g. its name, model, texture, animations, icon, proper names, tooltips, etc), but vary in how in-depth (lol) they are, and whether you get to keep the abilities (thematically) as well:

(OPTION 1) Simply replace Hero 'theme', freeing up the concept of the Hero (name & model), while keeping abilities fully identical (Thematically & Mechanically)
//frees up just the Hero conceptually

(OPTION 2) Replace both Hero 'theme' and Ability themes (e.g. a complete Thematic rework for the Tavern Hero, maintaining only Mechanical/Gameplay fidelity)
//frees up both the Hero & Abilities conceptually (if reworked mechanically).


So for Option 1, you just need to come up with a new "hero concept" that would fit a ranged INT archer hero, with the standard skillset of the NSW:
-Forked Lightning
-Cold Arrows
-Mana Shield
=Tornado

Such a hero could be a Kul Tiran character, maybe a "Tide Hag" or an "Arch-Witch"? You could instead envision a sort of "Storm Elemental" (though why it would shoot arrows is a problem to solve), maybe? Perhaps a bow-wielding Orcish 'shaman' of the Stormreaver clan?


On the other hand, for Option 2, you really open up the floor for a design challenge. You now just have to design a Ranged INT hero (no longer necessarily an archer), with the following abilities (presented mechanically, stripping out all thematic elements:
-forked Direct Damage spell (possibly with lightning SFX)
-autocast "arrow" ability (+Damage & Slow)
-toggled "mana-for-life" shield
=channeling summon (mobile, Damage-over-Time vs. Bldgs, Slowing/Disabling (periodically) vs. Units)

Considering that you can change basically everything 'aesthetic' about each of these abilities (e.g. names, tooltips, SFX, concept) as well as the Hero, you can really go wild. Here's just one example I thought up (all placeholder names):

"Elven Arch-Sorceress"
-"Magic Missile" (replace lightning with regular missiles)
-"Bolts of Lethargy/Chill-shot" (instead of arrows, magical 'Slow' energy or maybe just 'Ice' element, augmenting her regular magical projectile)
-"Aegis On/Off" (same)
="Arcane Flux" (like a big black hole or arcane singularity or whatever)

And then of course, you get to have a "Naga Sea Witch" (name/model/icon/etc) with "Forked Lightning", "Cold Arrows", "Mana Shield", and "Tornado" in your faction (all with different mechanical functionality, though), without worrying about ruining the game balance.

Wow thanks for the thoughtful analysis !
I really like option 2. I think it would be a shame not to use the Naga Seawitch model nor her spells because they are really cool and essential for the balance of the game.
I think creating a new "Elven Arch-Sorceress" tavern hero with the Naga Seawitch spells with different tooltip/SFX is a great idea. It then frees up the Naga SeaWitch model (which can be modified a little to give her a fresh and new look) who can have her own unique 5 spells !

Thanks for the feedback !
Cheers !

 

[IronBladeClan]

Omg I was looking for something with a shallow water mechanic like this! I guess there really are no new ideas (or, great minds think alike)

You mind if I (or anyone else) possibly expand on the code of your rancid waters system and credit you?? Alternatively, I'm happy to provide ideas if you have the bandwidth to keep expanding on it yourself lol.

P.S. if you're still missing some voices, this has been helpful for me making custom soundsets.

 

[NightWolf/Pierziz]

Omg I was looking for something with a shallow water mechanic like this! I guess there really are no new ideas (or, great minds think alike)

You mind if I (or anyone else) possibly expand on the code of your rancid waters system and credit you?? Alternatively, I'm happy to provide ideas if you have the bandwidth to keep expanding on it yourself lol.

P.S. if you're still missing some voices, this has been helpful for me making custom soundsets.

Hello @IronBladClan,

No problem you can ask me any question about the system I will answer as clearly as I can.
You can PM me any time !

Cheers !

 

[polatgeyik]

What did you want from the Murlocs and Snapdragons? Good jub mate