• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

Cinematic Contest #6 - 5 minutes free theme

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 28
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
1,638
Aw come on Bern. That's mean.

I kinda agree with Trakya (not that it's bad for watching, just that HQ will be better), but question is - where will you find well animated HQ models Trakya? Almost all the War3 HQ models aren't animated and besides, they are very few. So I think that's out. You can still get away easily with HQ textures and such I guess. Like 1024x1024 ones, although I don't know where you'll come across such, maybe you'll have to ask the creators if they keep a larger version of their texture..
 
Level 6
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
205
Well there is one way, but it requires a lot of work and most people wont even care, because it requires a lot of work. The APproject and his map IceBorn its pure high quality cinematics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcxu_3puHNg Actually its a trailer with small cinematic, but i couldn't find the cinematic it self posted on youtube. I guess the author used hq models from WoW if I'm right. I have no idea how many hours and weeks he spend to achieve his project, but his work is awesome. I guess he should win this contest. At least he give pure quality in that video. I don't say i don't like the existing cinematic, but if you really want to compete and you want to win you should produce cinematic like that one(You can check the link that i posted)
 
Level 6
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
205
Not really sure about WoW models as they don't really capture the Warcraft feel and have a very different style... If you want to though, go ahead. I was thinking that you meant something like enhancing the Warcraft 3 models.

This could be done if there is a way to rip WarCraft III Remastered models from StarCraft 2, but i don't think it will happen because of 3 reasons. First it needs a hundreds of hours to rip them working with animations, textures importing them into the project cinematic.

The second reason is low win price. There is rare people almost none that will do anything that its high quality for small price like that.(Once i asked for develop map and i wanted to pay like 25-50 euro for 1 map who wouldn't even be a high quality, but the people wasn't interested)

Third reason is the creativity. The producer should create good story enough to entertain the audience.
 
Level 31
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
2,557
Still WoW models produce the highest quality one can really find. There is a vast choice of this material on wcunderground and despite being WoW-origin, many things can be changed such as textures or models can be merged into one creating something not so WoW-like. Even removing big part of geosets of a big WoW model and adjusting the texture one can achieve something fresh. But yeah, working with those materials will consume more time than cinematic itself in most cases.

As for the textures, 1024x1024 is not supported by WC3, no matter the size of the texture it will be forced into 512x512 when game starts. The best way to enchance textures is to split model into several pieces of textures and apply 512x512 each, but then it really starts being a pain in the ass to arrange and it takes loads of space.

There actually are remastered WC3 models available on the very same site, but most of them are without animations though. With some modeling knowledge it is possible to apply at least oldschool animations to that mesh.
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 40
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,183
This could be done if there is a way to rip WarCraft III Remastered models from StarCraft 2, but i don't think it will happen because of 3 reasons. First it needs a hundreds of hours to rip them working with animations, textures importing them into the project cinematic.

The second reason is low win price. There is rare people almost none that will do anything that its high quality for small price like that.(Once i asked for develop map and i wanted to pay like 25-50 euro for 1 map who wouldn't even be a high quality, but the people wasn't interested)

Third reason is the creativity. The producer should create good story enough to entertain the audience.

WoW models are fine and all. But you are forgetting that the cinematic was made in 2005.
 
Level 31
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
2,557
this contest should've had a rule to use only war3 and Hive workshop models/textures
This kind of limitation doesn't promote the best possible outcome, it is up to contestants what resources should they use, but WoW material should not give bonus points. I think judges should demand better visuals when HQ material is used and have lesser standards for Hive material, this way it would stand equal I believe.
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 40
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,183
but WoW material should not give bonus points

They are better than wc3 models, end of story so I don't see why not. Problem usually being that you need WoW models for everything in the map because they don't mix well with default models.
If someone manage to do that, they deserve more points in my opinion.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

They are better than wc3 models, end of story so I don't see why not. Problem usually being that you need WoW models for everything in the map because they don't mix well with default models.
If someone manage to do that, they deserve more points in my opinion.

If it looks better, yes, but I don't think that only the use of those models should give extra points. If you manage to arrange them properly, yes, but not only for their use.
 
Level 9
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
238
I think some people are forgetting the whole CINEMATIC factor here!!
You've turned this thread into a modelling contest. I don't think the focus on the models should be this high. Just drop the modelling topic and don't confuse everyone's head!

This contest is more about imagination. Imagination and creativity win all, not injecting loads of models. Just look at the youtube video. It's SIMPLE with SIMPLE models. The only thing special about it is the whole synergy between all the elements and the creativity level of the builders.
 
Level 28
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
1,638
As for the textures, 1024x1024 is not supported by WC3, no matter the size of the texture it will be forced into 512x512 when game starts. The best way to enchance textures is to split model into several pieces of textures and apply 512x512 each, but then it really starts being a pain in the ass to arrange and it takes loads of space.

Really? I did not know that. Interesting.

Regarding the models, while it's true that it's a cinematic contest, models with more animations can help convey a story a lot better. A great example is this cinematic (from 2005) where a custom Illidan walk animation was used. It helped to portrait the wind and snow, the cold, the atmosphere, not only the character. And it was great for it's time. I really think these things can help a cinematic. Cinematics are something that, unfortunately, requires HQ. Of course it's not really a main focus but it's good to keep it in mind.
 
Level 17
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
2,004
Super-early Terrible WIP.

WIP 1: Gonna Fix the River thing and Add more Tile Variation and Doodads and etc etc etc.

WIP 2: Fixed the River Thing, added tile variation and added few doodads, though they're not enough yet. Dunno whether I should add the Mountain reflection as well or no?


attachment.php

attachment.php

 

Attachments

  • WIP 1.PNG
    WIP 1.PNG
    2.6 MB · Views: 256
  • WIP 2.PNG
    WIP 2.PNG
    2.7 MB · Views: 249
Level 24
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
4,657
The cinematic may not last longer than 5 minutes eh... that actually hurts my feelings.
I'd say that it should be at least 5 minutes and up to 10 maybe 15 minutes.

But does the cinematic has to be the full story?
Or is a small part of a bigger story also allowed?
And is it allowed to have an entry of a cinematic that is made for something else?
 
Level 9
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
238
I spent the whole night going through loads of models to pick the handy ones for my work.
After that I just set everything in motion.
Here is the very first scene at its most primitive state. (Only about 5% of this scene is completed).
I'm really tired. going to sleep :)
 

Attachments

  • WC3ScrnShot_110515_070225_01.jpg
    WC3ScrnShot_110515_070225_01.jpg
    119.6 KB · Views: 124
Level 7
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
286
The 5 minute limit is a good thing, it forces you to focus on the quality of your work rather than quantity. Blizzard's cinematic contest also had a 5 minute limit and a similar contest duration and we barely had enough time to finish our submission. The last couple of days I barely got any sleep, I had to work all the time to finish the thing. The day after the deadline I woke up sitting behind my computer - fortunately it turned out that I fell asleep after sending iNfraNe our final version and not before. :)

I agree that making a custom character model is not that important for a cinematic. Especially in a contest it is too time consuming to make a whole new model, and it doesn't really add much more than using one of the many existing custom model would. However, what can be useful is the ability to add a custom animation to an existing model. It is a lot less work and can have a much bigger impact. Slow walk animations are a good example, it can be jarring if your characters run all the time and a single custom animation can fix this issue.

Just a comment on your early WIPs. Of course, these are early screenshots so I don't mean to say that you're doing it wrong when in fact you might not even be doing 'it' yet. After all, you're showing off your early terrains, not your final camerawork. It's just something that has been quite pervasive in WC3 cinematics in the past and I wish to comment on it.

I'm talking about the camera pitch angle. In not a single screenshot so far has it been horizontal. Some screenshots come close but even there the camera is still slightly tilted downwards. Of course, that's the camera we're used to in WC3, so it might not seem immediately wrong and that's why everyone keeps doing it, but it's not really how movies are generally filmed. There, the camera is most often placed horizontally at the height of the characters' heads - it is placed into the scene, rather than above the scene.

Of course, doing this in WC3 presents some technical issues, such as stretched terrain textures, close ups of low poly models, near z clipping, etc. But these are problems to solve, not to avoid. You can for example scale up character models to effectively increase the relative detail of the terrain and to avoid near z clipping when you bring the camera closer. Also, a top-down camera is not always inappropriate. If you're at the top of a waterfall, you'll obviously be looking down. But in general, I would suggest to avoid using the view-from-above too much.
 
Level 19
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
1,194
You are right about the compression of quality. Ive started to write a scenario and i am thinking which of the parts would be the most important and i am deleting the least important parts and it needs more work because all of the parts seem important since ive chosen them one by one :D
 
Level 16
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
1,349
Interesting how much effort people are putting into their terrains. I hope terrain isn't going to be too important in reviewing process. Its like a movie being rated for its CGI and special effects.

I've always put a focus on developing characters and storyline...
 
Level 6
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
119
Hey guys,

I think it's wonderful that this is getting so much attention! I really hope that we're going to see some "next-gen" warcraft 3 cines coming up. I'm very interested in seeing what you all can come up with.

I'd like to give some general tips on the cinematic making. First of all, there's the technical side of things. At wc3c I long ago posted a general tips thread. This thread might be slightly outdated, but I would like to point out the technical tricks that are available. They are mostly based on you, the maker, controlling every single aspect of the cine (e.g., you should not let warcraft 3 decide which stand animation your character is going to perform). Besides the tips in this thread I would strongly urge you to use either Anitarf's cinematic system (link in first post), or at least to avoid waits, as he pointed out.

A few more tips:
- camera angles are generally at eye level, as Ani also pointed out. Every other camera angle should serve a specific purpose. For example, to demonstrate the height of a certain cliff, or to demonstrate the huge number of soldiers in an army. In addition, one should avoid abrupt changes in camera movement, with the exception of an instant camera change. The cinema workshop by Anitarf provides a camera movement system which is very powerful. For those working without the cinema workshop, I would advice to avoid panning a camera without instantly changing it beforehand, so as to avoid abrupt changes.

- more on cameras: choose your angles wisely. A camera angle should not surprise the viewer, but should follow up logically on the last one. Once the viewer is unsure what he is looking at, he will spend his focus on deciphering the scene, instead of enjoying the film.

- characters should behave as if they are actually alive. What I mean is, they will react to events in a way that makes sense. This can occur in several situations. For instance, when two characters have a conversation, don't just let the models stand there and play their stand animation while you play a sound of them "talking". The characters can look to different places, maybe walk around a bit. If you require custom animations (which is likely in this case), then make them. Another example is in a 1v1 fight scene. In a 1v1 fight scene, both characters are trying to kill/hurt the other. They are going to do this at the same time. I cannot stress enough that at any point during the entire 5 minutes of the cinematic, the characters on screen should currently be performing an action scripted by you.

- terrain and ambience have a huge impact on the overall feeling of the scene, but only the combination thereof with appropriate music can "tie the room together". Think about the feeling you want to convey and choose terrain/sounds based on that. Try to avoid lengthy terrain show-off sections, we're not remaking planet earth in 5 minutes ;). Low-poly models at the front of the scene do kinda bring down the overall feel, so I would advice against using those in front.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Keep in mind these are just tips. Of course great cines can be made which break my "rules", so if you disagree with something, please prove me wrong! :)
 
Level 31
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
2,557
As for 5 minutes story, I would suggest going with characters that are already well known such as Warcraft or WoW lore based (or Sc2 and so on), those characters already has their own story so introductions are not needed for those characters, therefore time is saved. But I fear this way it may lose originality in some sense, or not at all, since this is warcraft community.

Great tips, iNfraNe.
 
Level 24
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
4,657
But Chaosy, in a book you can make the pages enormous and the text size this small (smaller).
Which would mean that with 100 pages, you can actually have a 10k page book.

Ofcourse we can speed things up... but that would be horrible in a movie.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top