Warcraft 3 Reforged

[Trill]

Am I the only worried about proportions? I can see that they WoW-sized the hero body proportions, yeah maybe WC3 or Hots style is too cartoonish, but come on, it's WC3, NOT WOW!

EDIT: don't get me wrong, i am excited af about this remaster, thanks Blizzard for everything you do, just giving feedback
View attachment 308855

On one hand I agree, on the other hand HotS made Uther and Arthas basically dwarves, and that's not nice.
To be frank, while in general I'm not a fan of Reforged, it is THE best Arthas model I've seen. It is better than horrible WoW or HotS ones.

 

[deepstrasz]

Am I the only worried about proportions? I can see that they WoW-sized the hero body proportions, yeah maybe WC3 or Hots style is too cartoonish, but come on, it's WC3, NOT WOW!

And that horrible hammer... It's so big that carrying it with one hand would be a pain, not to mention swinging to fight with it even with two.
It's Final Fantasy, not Warcraft.

I don't understand about these art-style complaints. Afaik people always demanded HD remaster but now all the sudden they want the old blocky art style? They want a HD-blocky-art-style? Cant imagine how that looks.

No. They want less Heroes of the Storm and especially WoW vibes and more Warcraft RTS ones.

 

[opium911]

It was bound to happen.
Big companies never get interested randomly by some old games unless there is money to be made.

When we started getting the WC3 patches for the past few months, it was a tiny piece of the puzzle.
Now the whole puzzle is coming along and we see now that their initial goal was to create an interest in WC3 with those small updates and eventually to lead the users to buy a revamped version of the game.

I feel this new version of the game seem to benefit more the modding community with more extended editing tools than the players themselves who will benefit from higher quality resolutions.

There are still a lot of issues in WC3 that they haven't fixed yet.
I hope they are not going to say internally in their Blizzard departments "Ah leave it as it is with all those issues, most people will pay for the new version anyway....so drop the patches for the old version".

The patches were used as BAIT in order to hook the users to pay the amount for the new WC3 version.

 

[Trill]

And that horrible hammer... It's so big that carrying it with one hand would be a pain, not to mention swinging to fight with it even with two.

Let's be fair, so is Paladin's hammer in Warcraft III. Plus Warcraft was never about realistic proportions, ESPECIALLY of weapons. Ahem, footman swords, ahem.

 

[deepstrasz]

Let's be fair, so is Paladin's hammer in Warcraft III.

You have comparison pictures above. The Warcraft III paladin hammer size is fine. The Reforged one is not. Footmen swords aren't that bad but it's also the old graphics. However, here where they could have made things more logical, they did not and went on with their weird fantasies.

 

[Sieben]

I don't understand about these art-style complaints.

Different people have different tastes, mate Some of them think the art differs too much from the original game. For example, look at Starcraft Remastered: game sprites were converted in high resolution, but they didn't change the style at all (except for a few portraits). I know, 2D game and 3D game are a lot different, but my point is that Blizzard kept the original spirit of Starcraft design, while we are quite a bunch thinking they didn't do it with Reforged.

Afaik people always demanded HD remaster but now all the sudden they want the old blocky art style? They want a HD-blocky-art-style? Cant imagine how that looks.

If you read carefully the threads about a potential remaster, you'll see that many people were concerned about a full HD remaster, for the reasons that were stated before (mostly because of old custom models feeling out of place).

Am I the only worried about proportions?

And that horrible hammer... It's so big that carrying it with one hand would be a pain, not to mention swinging to fight with it even with two.

No. They want less Heroes of the Storm and especially WoW vibes and more Warcraft RTS ones.

Same thoughts here. Look at Arthas' head, it's ridiculously small.
I totally agree with Deepstrasz, oversized weapons (and armours) annoy me. It's a design choice that Blizzard made a long time ago. It was already there with Warcraft III but it got a lot worse with WoW, and it always bothered me (where has Warcraft 1 and 2 style gone? :'( ). Again, it's about personal taste here, but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

[deepstrasz]

For example, look at Starcraft Remastered: game sprites were converted in high resolution, but they didn't change the style at all.

Oh really? Look at some of the portrait differences which were made to fit StarCraft II's.

Same thoughts here. Look at Arthas' head, it's ridiculously small.

And he's ridiculously tall.

Against, it's about personal taste here, but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Yeah sure. Let's call it that so we can have heels on grunts...

 

[Himperion]

There wasn't a RE-Forged version of the War3 heros on Starcraft 2 assets before LOV, if my memory doesn't fail the style was still WC3 with more polys.

 

[Ungoliath]

MAN, I'm so incredibly excited for this! Time to hurry up with unfinished projects, I guess haha

 

[Sieben]

Oh really? Look at some of the portrait differences which were made to fit StarCraft II's.

Yeah, I thought you might say that I edited my post to make it clearer. I was speaking about game sprites/textures, which I think are very nicely remastered, I wasn't thinking about portraits.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

As a creator I'm looking forward to the WE update most... But damn will it be fun to replay the campaign with those graphics. It'll be like a dream. Guess I'm buying a new computer

 

[Rui]

It's all coming back to me, was about to say. But my last RoC campaign playthrough was less than a year ago. Oh my, oh my, how splendid! This is the day many Warcraft 3 players have dreamed of, for years! I only wished to be 9 still, as per my first beholding upon Reign of Chaos, so that I'd have the time for modding.

My comments:

• Crossplay: Very good decision to make the (hopefully fixed) original game compatible with Reforged. My only regret is I was hoping for a revamped pathing/collision system less clunky than the current one. I see there's been an engine upgrade; hopefully it addresses this issue and crosses to vanilla as well.

• Resource obsolecence: Good point already raised a few times. It would be adequate if, at least, there was a way for artists to make their models appear low quality for the original game, and higher quality for Reforged. Is this possible?

• Reforged art: I agree with @Gismo359 on the voices. I'll add: voice acting quality has really been degrading across games and shows alike — already apparent in StarCraft II, with all but a few lines being understandable (the only actual good voice set was the Stalker imo).
As for the art style, I concur with critiques made until now, by @Kacpa2, @Sieben, @kantarion and others. Actually I appreciate the visual upgrade, I too think it was needed; about a year ago, I was working in the editor and it got bothersome, even for an oldschool like me, who grew up in the very beginning of 3D. But I'm hoping it looks way better than this when finished. Those shoulderpads, ugh...
(And we should keep in mind: brighter visuals means higher barrier-to-entry for artists, due to increased model design complexity.)

• Pay anew: Agreed with @Dr Super Good's protest on having to pay again. Owners of legal copies should be at least given a discount.​

Replies and tags:
— @JokeMaster I think you're talking about decals? I'd looove to see them too. It's a very small detail, but for me it makes a difference.
— @Razorclaw_X any chance we might see a high res Shizuka I've been imagining for years?
— @blufflegendaire The official site doesn't hint to any new races. And understandably so: the impact in melee is too great. Blizzard is not one for such adventures. I do hope they allow us to make more selectable races in multiplayer though, so as to avoid all the incongruences and the messy dialog workarounds. I'm also skeptical about more than 6 inventory slots for the same reason, though it should definitely be a possibility in modding.
— @Hero_Lief I wholeheartedly share your sentiment about Warcraft III. It is where I learned programming and honed my English it marked me forever!
— EDIT: Also, nice to see so many people coming back (e.g. @1)ark_NiTe )

 

[yxq1122]

The portrait of unit seems to be static in the reforged version, while the portrait in the classic version shows animations when unit being clicked or selected. I think most players love the latter.

The animated portrait of widget is a very popular feature of wc3, and should be inherited by the reforged version.

 

[Kacpa2]

I so hope they make it easier to edit models like the ones we can find on this website... can't wait

It wont be as easy at all. They use lots of features that arent in original wc3, models are so big that most of old software will crash alot like mdlvis.....its not even sure if they will still use mdx/mdl. Reskining the will be very limited and much harder. It will require everyone who attempts it to know 3ds max...which is ridiculous and will make it really hard for newcomers to attempt.

Its in style of cgi cinematcis from.what we seen which isnt what even WoW has. Thus level of excessive and unnessesary fidelity will make model making dead aside from top artists here who have nessesary skills and knowledge, say bye bye to all reskins of original models and lesser edits like Ujimasa hojo's or kangyun's style of ingame using retextures.

You all clearly dont understand how destructive this dumb artstyle change is. And what repercusions will follow aside of butchered integrity of the game.

EDIT: Well they said that they will release the tools, but as it was done in the past it will be art tools set for 3ds max version they are using right now. However there is a chance they do far more and give us stuff to menage mdx, m2 and m3 files and to easily convert them without breaking to several types of software like Blender and not just 3ds max.

 

[deepstrasz]

You all clearly dont understand how destructing this dumb artstyle change is. And what repercusions will follow aside of butchered integrity of the game.

Model and skin microtransactions, of course.

 

[Kasrkin]

I'm still kinda stuck on how Armies of Azeroth looks better than this.

 

[YourArthas]

I'm still kinda stuck on how Armies of Azeroth looks better than this.

You think we do, but we don't

 

[Kacpa2]

I'm still kinda stuck on how Armies of Azeroth looks better than this.

Armies of Azeroth looks like most faithful remaster in history of mankknd in comparison to this mess......

 

[Chaosy]

. I certainly assume that Mapmakers will most likely stick with the old graphics,

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLL no.

I have replaced almost all default models in my current wc3 with the reborn mod, and prior to that I have tried to use WoW, HotS models as much as possible.

The wc3 graphics is my worst gripe with the game, I love the editor and all that.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

Also, nice to see so many people coming back (e.g. @1)ark_NiTe )

Thanks Rui! I'm always around THW... just haven't had a reason to be very active these last few years. The more I think about this news the more hyped I get though.


As a creator that's been modding since 2006, I am super stoked about what the update means for the custom game scene. I hope devs like me who haven't been as active recently will return to the Reforge to refresh their game. Can you imagine what that would do for the community? Think about joining a map lobby that organically fills in 30 seconds like the old days. Activity like that would definitely inspire new creators as well. I can't wait to see the impact.

 

[YourArthas]

Armies of Azeroth looks like most faithful remaster in history of mankknd in comparison to this mess......

Well, it used to be, but at recent times we had alot of fights cause I never wanted to change concepts while leaders wanted a more cartoonish and not loyal to original style here is the latest example of it:
Tomb of Relics, Schreck Net

we had fights and I edited it to a standable point:

Tomb Of Relics image - Warcraft Rebirth mod for Warcraft III: Frozen Throne

 

[Almia]

I'm interested in seeing how this is going to work out, especially the editor. The low quality models have bothered me for...forever.

holy... you are still alive

 

[HungryHusky]

I hope they will allow the use of all tilesets in a single map. That would be cool.

 

[WorldEdit]

WorldEdit will be back!

 

[Kacpa2]

I hope they will allow the use of all tilesets in a single map. That would be cool.

I want it in normal Wc3.......soon........same with changing water type and more cliffs......and custom effects like fog.......and skies......

 

[Jimpanse1]

The dev in Grubby's stream said, that the plan to "reforge" warcraft 3 happend around the same time the first new patches came out.

i do recommend you guys to check out his video, as it's probably the biggest amount of information we'll get about everything going on right now.

Twitch (Skipped it right into the part where the dev joins grubby)

 

[Regent_Artiman]

Just confused! Is it Warcraft RoC and FTH, with previous campaign or new?

Edit: Got my answer and disappointed. But I think there is hope for new campaigns.

 

[Blackcat]

Armies of Azeroth looks like most faithful remaster in history of mankknd in comparison to this mess......

Mess? There are some things I dislike, but overall I'm really happy with the artstyle they've chosen. If they went with a more cartoony style the effects of remastering it would be smaller. And people that prefer the old style can keep playing that one.

 

[Gauda]

After seeing that Starcraft Remastered appeared it seemed quite clear that this would happen for Warcraft.

I'll try to be open for the new graphic but the old one is pure nostalgia for me so maybe i'll prefer the old but let's see.
I hope that it doesn't corrupt the game like the previous patches did, so fixing this is something i'd like to see the Reforged Version appears. Maybe it attracts new player to this masterpiece of a game.

Existing maps could be a problem. I hope also that this is not corrupted. I think switching between new and old graphic could solve problems concerning difference between the graphic styles. (also hopefully)

Another thing: Am i the only person thinking that Mal'ganis is missing a tail? It was also a missing detail in HotS (Since i never played WoW i might have missed a discussion) This is a small detail but it is for me a small dislike because it's for me too different to the original models ^^

So whole in one: it should be interesting but Blizzard can easily make many many mistakes.

 

[Himperion]

Another legit concern not on the style of the graphics, but since War3 we have the Stramholme mission being narrated on like five flavors.

War 3: Arthas was right.
WoW: Uther was right.
Comic: Everyones fault.
Lich: Arthas killed his own people.
Else: GREY MORALITY!!!

Given the current WoW expansion, i fear that Throne undead will be rewritten to make Sylvanas a dark and misunderstood GREY MORALITY!!! character under the influence of the evil Dreadlord and Betrayed by Garithos that is an "Insert political term of your preference here"

 

[deepstrasz]

Given the current WoW expansion, i fear that Throne undead will be rewritten to make Sylvanas a dark and misunderstood GREY MORALITY!!! character under the influence of the evil Dreadlord and Betrayed by Garithos that is an "Insert political term of your preference here"

God, I hope no story retcons. Visuals are one thing but this...

 

[NhazUl]

I love the new unit models, mostly, with their less goofy style. Or at least its replacement by another kind of cartoonish. I was getting tired of looking at elves with Neanderthal jaws and archmages with simian-sized foreheads. And I'm optimistic about the animations and that they'll be diversified. It's the easiest thing to leave for last and use placeholder animations in the beta. I'm also glad they can make old concept art finally come to life properly. However, one mistake Blizzard has been making in the recent decade (ever since WoW) has been to equalize their style for everything, giving every unit planet-sized pauldrons, armor and blades thicker than castle walls, toothy edgy jaws, enough crystals for a treasury and enough eyeglow for Ultravision to be rendered obsolete. Come on, this isn't Warhammer and I hope they tone that down.

Can't say the same about buildings, though. Too cartoonish. WC3 didn't suffer much from this because the models were blocky and undetailed, so even if their lines weren't rectangular (like the undead crypt's walls), they were made out of straight lines. All those round elements make buildings look like they were all designed by Antonio Gaudi.

I have yet to comment on gameplay, WE and conversion, but I hope it's as compatible with classic WC3 as possible.

Also, I wish they had remastered those bloody cliffs. Ugliest and most impractical thing in WC3. Does anyone still use them in custom maps?

P. S. It only hits me now that the cartoonish faces I hate so much were to prevent units from looking creepy up close. Blizzard had learned their lesson from Starcraft and Diablo where even higher-poly faces like those of Alexei Stukov or Marius looked like the creepiest of creeps in an attempt to be realistic.

 

[Heinvers]

Hail!​

 

[Anaxie]

For the Campaign what people should be excited for is this IS NOT A REMASTER

its as much a remake as Resident Evil 2 is.

Look at the Culling Map at blizzcon. They had minibosses and the map was Entirely different 100%

This tells us that the entire game is probably seeing this trend. I imagine the Assault on Silvermoon will see a far better representation of the Sunwell and have Anasterian present even.

Wc3 Reforged Campaign at is core is essentially an ENTIRELY BRAND NEW RTS because The Maps themselves and layout of enemeis and bases and tactics is what makes a game.

I'm very pleased with this. I wonder if Classic and Reforged campaigns exist since they said ti will be like SC1 because a simple graphics toggle won't change the layout of entire maps.

This is a far more exciting prospect then the enhanced Graphics any day.


What should be truly be excited for?

The destruction of Dalaran, The Defiling of Quel' Thalas, The Black Temple, The Tomb of Sargeras, The Battle for Icecrown.

OHHH THESE MAPS are going to be so juicy!

Can't wait to see the Azjol Nerub remade maps!



And with this entirely BRAND NEW RTS
We should hold our breath and pray for the HUGE 2nd coming of the RTS Genre to be revived and games to be made.

This happened recently with the CRPG Isometric RPG Genre because of hits like Divinity Original Sin and Pillars bringing back the Baldur's Gate vibes

 

[Flux]

I came buckets when they announced this.

On No Nut November?

 

[Anglo Warior]

I'm excited, but I do have my reservations.

One the one hand, the Warcraft 3 engine could use a few tweaks and quality of life improvements, but on the other hand, I'm worried that any of these tweaks could bring in complications that weren't present in the base engine.
Vast expansion in the potential of the trigger and AI editor in the world editor could make it easier to make complicated maps and AI without the need to learn a coding language, but if the world editors capabilities require a higher level of work and skill than the normal editor it could put off a lot of those who aspire to make custom maps. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that reforged will live and die on the world editor.

 

[NhazUl]

Also, what does that mean for custom models? The new models have specular and emissive, as well as other new properties, I guess. Can we expect fixes? Or even remakes of those legendary alpha models we never got to see?

 

[Fruit Forest]

What would happen with the custom maps? Does all progress of current projects will cancelled?

 

[Anglo Warior]

What would happen with the custom maps? Does all progress of current projects will cancelled?

A good question. Compatibility with base Warcraft 3 is essential.

 

[deepstrasz]

@Archian or somebody, would you do a list of all the changes and features to come on the opening post so that people won't ask the same questions over and over? Thank you.

 

[Sieben]

However, one mistake Blizzard has been making in the recent decade (ever since WoW) has been to equalize their style for everything, giving every unit planet-sized pauldrons, armor and blades thicker than castle walls, toothy edgy jaws, enough crystals for a treasury and enough eyeglow for Ultravision to be rendered obsolete. Come on, this isn't Warhammer and I hope they tone that down.

This couln't have been said better! Someone start a petition against oversized weapons and armours?

Can't say the same about buildings, though. Too cartoonish.

As I previously said, I completely agree with that. Which gives me the opportunity to correct my previous posts: I said I found the overall style too cartoonish, while in fact this is mostly concerning buildings. I have a few small complaints about units, but for other reasons than being too cartoonish. But buildings, yeah, they look like childish plastic toys.

For the Campaign what people should be excited for is this IS NOT A REMASTER
(...)
Look at the Culling Map at blizzcon. They had minibosses and the map was Entirely different 100%

This tells us that the entire game is probably seeing this trend. I imagine the Assault on Silvermoon will see a far better representation of the Sunwell and have Anasterian present even.

Wc3 Reforged Campaign at is core is essentially an ENTIRELY BRAND NEW RTS because The Maps themselves and layout of enemeis and bases and tactics is what makes a game.
(...)
The destruction of Dalaran, The Defiling of Quel' Thalas, The Black Temple, The Tomb of Sargeras, The Battle for Icecrown.

Erm, sure, but as far as I know, nobody asked for a remake retconning everything. If we wanted to play WoW, we would play WoW, not Warcraft III, don't you think? To be honest, I'm quite sick of what Blizzard made of the world of Warcraft since WoW, in terms of lore and overall design. If all campaigns are modified like that, we will never feel the same vibe as before, it will never be the same game. I'm happy for you if you enjoy that (I mean it), but I (and probably many others) would be sad to lose what made that game so great.
That's the whole point of a remaster: enjoying the good ol' game we all love, with tweaks and various improvements to make life easier and have better eye-candy graphics. But the point is not to have a brand new and totally different game, is it?

 

[AtheosTG]

I've started with warcaraft on warcraft 2 and have been playing wc3 since 2003 when TFT came out. I moved on to WoW quite late (in 2010 or so) but never really quit wc3 until the last couple years.

WC3 is just dead ATM. Not because the game is any less fun then when it launched but simply because the <casual> part of the community moved on to other games (mostly LoL or similar).

Like it or not the hardcores here on hive are not enough to keep a game alive.

Regardless on whether or noto you like the visual style, this "remaster" can only be good news to the Warcraft scene. It will undoubtly bring old players (like me) back and most importantly, it will bring in completely new players.

I look forward to see lobbies filling up in 30 seconds like the old times.

And for those concerned about resources, it will take some time, but i'm sure a load will be coming from returning hobbysts and devs.

Also WoW's resources won't look horribly out of place now.

The only downside to this is that sc2 will be come even more tragically dead. Tho it has its niche to keep it around.

 

[Archian]

@Archian or somebody, would you do a list of all the changes and features to come on the opening post so that people won't ask the same questions over and over? Thank you.

Working on a thread as I type this

 

[aider]

Seems MMO-champion is going to have a QA with the developers on WC3R where you can post your questions, probably tonight as Blizzcon is now Live again:
Warcraft 3: Reforged - Submit Questions for the Developers

 

[Mechanical Man]

Meh, they could just create new campaigns, slapped the name Warcraft 4 on it and everyone would buy it even for double the price. I doubt it will progress the modding though, especially in art department. More detailed models means less people able to cope with detail. We already see how starcraft 2 modeling failed because of these issues, I predict this here too. Especially if those cinematic models are also game models. But maybe I am exaggerating. But the truth is that modeling itself will be much harder. But this opens more questions. Will max 5 + art tools still be necessary? Or can we use other programs? What about fan made tools? The reason I am still interesting in the game are the customized assets, which makes the game still interesting after all these years.

 

[AtheosTG]

That's the whole point of a remaster: enjoying the good ol' game we all love, with tweaks and various improvements to make life easier and have better eye-candy graphics. But the point is not to have a brand new and totally different game, is it?

I do hope they don't retcon the story. Remaking the game feel and style is another thing, though.

They purposely didn't name it remaster. Personally i think that, as opposed to sc1, they have long-term plans for warcraft RTS.

This is honestly much more than it could reasonably be hoped. And if we don't like how it turns out, the old one's still there, with cross-playability, which means revived community.

We should really be content.

 

[Blackcat]

I find it interesting that they seem to be updating Battle.net 1.0 rather than putting WC3:R on Battle.net 2.0 completely. At least, that's what they are suggesting. While I would really applaud that, I do hope they change some stuff in regards to channels, clans, friendlists, game accounts (like, get rid of smurfs), etc.

 

[Sheephunter]

I was here

 

[deepstrasz]

I find it interesting that they seem to be updating Battle.net 1.0 rather than putting WC3:R on Battle.net 2.0 completely. At least, that's what they are suggesting. While I would really applaud that, I do hope they change some stuff in regards to channels, clans, friendlists, game accounts (like, get rid of smurfs), etc.

"An Upgraded Experience
Challenge opponents with modern multiplayer matchmaking, search for custom game lobbies, and connect with friends through the Blizzard Battle.net app. With updated UI and countless quality-of-life improvements, it’s never been easier to get into Warcraft III. "
If that doesn't mean Battle.net 2.0, I don't know what it is. Even StarCraft: Remastered requires you to start the Battle.net app.

 

[Wareditor]

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@Archian