Melee Mapping Contest #2 - 1 vs 1

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Nice map @mafe really dig the oasis aesthtic. I see you are experimenting with randomizers like last time :cgrin: aren't you concerned a bit with the close lab spawns? It's nice that you removed the lightning rod, I wanted to do the same as there's so much humbug around it but I didn't in the end as it still is a part of the game, even if flawed.

PS: Love the map description :cgrin:
 
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Nice map @mafe really dig the oasis aesthtic. I see you are experimenting with randomizers like last time :cgrin: aren't you concerned a bit with the close lab spawns? It's nice that you removed the lightning rod, I wanted to do the same as there's so much humbug around it but I didn't in the end as it still is a part of the game, even if flawed.

PS: Love the map description :cgrin:

"you removed the lightning rod",
I put it with the charged level 3 items. Because if I put a charged level 2 manually, it still appears a random charged level 2 on market place so removing it won´t completly delete it from game.
In the marketplace appeared the tome of the deads, and never put it in my map as charged level 4.

@The Panda

Flooded Waters 1v1
Tweaking doodads currently.

The map looks awsome, with a lot of complex terrain, from the screen I have only one thing ringing in my mind, is the un-buildable tile, try to consider the Age of War creeping Route for NE. thats all.
 
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Heya, here's a WIP.
I just wanna know your opinion on the map and the general layout. I haven't polished the aggro on some creeps so that might be a bit rough. Does it feel too tight with not much space? Is it cramped with creeps? Did you find out how to use the big trees? :cgrin:
Anyways, doodads and terraining are still in the making.

A very old school layout! I love it. I remember RoC maps...
 
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Thanks for the feedback. Just to make sure, did you know those trees were bridges? (since some playtesters thought those were just doodads)
 

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Here's a lay-out preview of my map. (It is 50% done and just mirrored with image editing tools, thus the 100% mirror accuracy)

are you aware that you can mirror one side of the map by copying terrain with ctrl+c? This can be done going into terrain editor and selecting the portion of land and pressing ctrl+c. Then select another land and paste it.
 
are you aware that you can mirror one side of the map by copying terrain with ctrl+c? This can be done going into terrain editor and selecting the portion of land and pressing ctrl+c. Then select another land and paste it.
Yes, but with my demand it is just pretty much re-creating it all over again. By mirroring it via copy-paste you make a huge amount of repetition that removes variety from terrain tile usage, cliff height, doodad variations and placement etc.

Personally I mirror it with copy and paste and then use those pasted objects and terrains as a "overlay" and redo it from scratch to create more atmospheric environment and surroundings, not to mention that copy and paste resets doodad height (majority of my doodads and destructibles are individually set to certain height (even trees) to give the map more pleasant and polished look).
 
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@mafe @Knecht

played + video, x3 speed (more size, but more detail of the play)

Heya, here's a WIP.
I just wanna know your opinion on the map and the general layout. I haven't polished the aggro on some creeps so that might be a bit rough. Does it feel too tight with not much space? Is it cramped with creeps? Did you find out how to use the big trees? :cgrin:
Anyways, doodads and terraining are still in the making.

I think, I want to tell you that I did not use zeppeling to reach the marketplace.

I used the show map skill of the goblin lab shop and then teleport with the warden, (did that twice).

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/knecth-map-part-1-part1-rar.305654/

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/knecth-map-part-1-part2-rar.305655/

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/knecth-map-part-2-rar.305650/

3 part video, 16 mb the first (x2 16 mb), the last is just 6 mb

is a 44 min play, when I was going to fully attack I was repelled so thing went long.

Thanks for the feedback. Just to make sure, did you know those trees were bridges? (since some playtesters thought those were just doodads)
No, didn´t know that.

Well then. Here's my current version. I havent really playtested it yet.
"Nonstandard" gameplay features, though of course other people have come up with these before:
-Random spawn positions for shops and laboratories (but it will always be symmetric).
-Unusual gold mine positions, where your natural expansion is actually further away than a lategame expansion.
-A Single-unit-creepcamp.
-Problematic items removed from loot some loot tables, in particular lightning shield, crystal ball, scroll of restoration.

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mafe-map-rar.305653/


only one thing, as NE I prefer to expand the center goldmine with 2 AOW. Hu will have to go to the far one for shure. 25 mb


see ya guys.
 
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The Panda

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@mafe @Knecht

played + video, x3 speed (more size, but more detail of the play)



Played your map, is perfect, I think, I want to tell you that I did not use zeppeling to reach the marketplace.

I used the show map skill of the goblin lab shop and then teleport with the warden, (did that twice).

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/knecth-map-part-1-part1-rar.305654/

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/knecth-map-part-1-part2-rar.305655/

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/knecth-map-part-2-rar.305650/

3 part video, 16 mb the first (x2 16 mb), the last is just 6 mb

is a 44 min play, when I was going to fully attack I was repelled so thing went long.


No, didn´t know that.



https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/mafe-map-rar.305653/

Played your map, is perfect , again I think, only one thing, as NE I prefer to expand the center goldmine with 2 AOW. Hu will have to go to the far one for shure. 25 mb


see ya guys.

I like what your doing here but I feel like you should wait till the end of the contest and have the judges do this instead of giving everyone examples of what they need to fix because then in the outcome the judges really wont have anything to say at the end of the contest.
 
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I like what your doing here but I feel like you should wait till the end of the contest and have the judges do this instead of giving everyone examples of what they need to fix because then in the outcome the judges really wont have anything to say at the end of the contest.

Got it, sorry for the troubles, glad that I didn´t fully review the maps, just isolated hints.
 
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Just sayin is all I mean I appreciate it but it would give the judges more to pick from is all.
Judges are here to judge the final product, short but contructive feedback to WIPs by participants shouldn't be problem, should it? I mean, your map for example would be harsh for NE with all that unbuildable terrain. I personally watch contest only from time to time, but it's common that participants help each other, by hinting what could be improved. Or is that really that big of a problem?
 

The Panda

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Judges are here to judge the final product, short but contructive feedback to WIPs by participants shouldn't be problem, should it? I mean, your map for example would be harsh for NE with all that unbuildable terrain. I personally watch contest only from time to time, but it's common that participants help each other, by hinting what could be improved. Or is that really that big of a problem?

Ok, but if people are just giving ideas of what to change and everything then at the end all the maps would be non judgable since they fixed everything from what others say.. so whats the point of even having a judge then? Its like having a art contest and another artists tells another that they need to add a tree or whatever in the left corner because it doesn't look right without it.. so then he does it and theres nothing the judges can find that needs "judging" idk i feel like it defeats the purpose of having judges but i guess thats just me then.
 
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Ok, but if people are just giving ideas of what to change and everything then at the end all the maps would be non judgable since they fixed everything from what others say.. so whats the point of even having a judge then? Its like having a art contest and another artists tells another that they need to add a tree or whatever in the left corner because it doesn't look right without it.. so then he does it and theres nothing the judges can find that needs "judging" idk i feel like it defeats the purpose of having judges but i guess thats just me then.

I want to say that I am going to speak in a friendly but very objetive and clear way about this topic.

I am starting to feel like a total coward hidding behind @Mr.Henci, so I am gonna say this:

@The Panda

I want to cut this topic now once and for all.

You have no authority to ask me to stop doing videos or giving feedback to other users, if you don´t like it you have to tolerate it.

When you joined this contest you agree with the present rules.

1) Finding Beta-test is not forbbiden.
"Finding testers to help you with your submission is not considered teamwork."

2) And a tester will give you feedback, in the front page Feedback is not forbidden.

If you don´t like that rules you can drop the contest, there was a space to discuss the rules before start (that was the moment to discuss rules, and I stated the reduction of the % voting sistem, and it was great that it was reduced from 25% to 20%.

If I can I will continue with my activities (beta test, videos and feedback) unless @Naze or @Sister She order me to stop because I am "breaking rules that may lead to to punishment in the judgement score, up to disqualification from the contest".

@The Panda

If you don´t like my answer contact @Naze and @Sister She for my actions, they have the authority to order me to stop, and or punish me.



Melee Mapping Contest #2
 
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The Panda

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I want to say that I am going to speak in a friendly but very objetive and clear way about this topic.

I am starting to feel like a total coward hidding behind @Mr.Henci, so I am gonna say this:

@The Panda

I want to cut this topic now once and for all.

You have no authority to ask me to stop doing videos or giving feedback to other users, if you don´t like it you have to tolerate it.

When you joined this contest you agree with the present rules.

1) Finding Beta-test is not forbbiden.
"Finding testers to help you with your submission is not considered teamwork."

2) And a tester will give you feedback, in the front page Feedback is not forbidden.

If you don´t like that rules you can drop the contest, there was a space to discuss the rules before start (that was the moment to discuss rules, and I stated the reduction of the % voting sistem, and it was great that it was reduced from 25% to 20%.

If I can I will continue with my activities (videos and feedback) unless @Naze or @Sister She order me to stop because I am "breaking rules that may lead to to punishment in the judgement score, up to disqualification from the contest".

@The Panda

If you don´t like my answer cotact @Naze and @Sister She for my actions, they have the authority to order me to stop.

Kinda funny when i told you to stop and you said ok now your defending yourself. Ok, well do what you want then.
 
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Kinda funny when i told you to stop and you said ok now your defending yourself. Ok, well do what you want then.

thanks, really, to me the topic about my actions ends here.

Perhaps Ragnaros simply reconsidered how they felt about stopping. Is that so bad? We should all be diligent about checking and altering our opinions if we feel so moved.

Thanks for your words, but I really like to end this topic, this topic harms the contest, is sad that all others users have to read this and don´t post about their maps, I want to talk about maps, wips,

This is not the place to debate my actions.
If my actions ( the beta-test, videos and feedback) are bad, lets @Naze decide my fate and no more opinions about myself, I really, really want this topic end and
that the contest continue.

@Knecht

Maybe my 1.26 is old but look how I see the bridges:

I hope they work in your 1.30 v,

I think I understand whats happening, you used negative orientation numbers that means like inclination

-30 or something like that if the user doesn´t have it activated in editor or something like that I think that happen, you should check it, if others testers had the same problem it may be because of the negative numbers more than version

also I can´t use the bridges.

hope to help.


upload_2018-9-1_22-54-0.png

upload_2018-9-1_22-54-43.png




in my map I did this, a cool combination of fire and ice theme. A way to obtain water.

Doodads used: glaciers, braziers, tables, the wood by funkid2 and the awsome fountain by skrab.

Even I used steam bubbles, I never used those doodads until now. :)


upload_2018-9-1_23-5-50.png
 
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Ok, but if people are just giving ideas of what to change and everything then at the end all the maps would be non judgable since they fixed everything from what others say.. so whats the point of even having a judge then? Its like having a art contest and another artists tells another that they need to add a tree or whatever in the left corner because it doesn't look right without it.. so then he does it and theres nothing the judges can find that needs "judging" idk i feel like it defeats the purpose of having judges but i guess thats just me then.

I just wanna say, there is no such thing as "non judgable". There is nothing perfect in our world. Perfection is not achievable.
Sure, user feedback might help us remove the biggest flaws in our projects, but judging is very objective. What one might like, another might dislike. And the feedback might not always be good advice, it's up to the mapper to decide if it's worth implementing in their map. One way or the other, there is going to be a lot to judge, there is no chance to reach a "non-judgeable" state.

If there was a rule that contestants weren't allowed to give each other feedback, I don't think I'd join a single contest. It's that kind of communication that helps a community grow together, not apart.
So can we stop this pointless discussion please? User feedback has been in each and every one contest so far, and it's not going away. Nothing has exploded because of it, and it's not going to. Calm down.
 
Simple statements shouldn't be exageratted:
  1. Panda thinks to wait for such type of given feedback by Ragnaros
  2. Ragnaros thinks given feedback is in acceptable range
  3. .. End ..
.. it's only some disagreement, no need to tell someone "you can drop contest if you don't agree..", "you have no authority to ask me..", and of course Panda also could not punish someone in this case. Seems like wasted pushing.
If there's a problem in someone's opinion then everyone has for sure the authority to voice out his opinion, but if that's really the same thing Appointed Staff agrees with that it requires punishment, can be something different.. so one can handle it calmly by just also explaining his opinion.

In the end it's a shame if someone thinks about leaving contest because of an emotional discussion where nothing really happend.
 
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@Ragnaros17 Haha :cgrin: just as I feared - the players won't know how to use the bridges.
Here's what you have to do:
1) Get yourself a siege unit - demolisher, meat wagon, etc
2) Aim for the rune (since aiming for the tree won't do anything, weird hitbox)
3) Enjoy the new bridge

Thanks for the vids mate, appreciate it. Imo it's good that the people here give each other the feedback, really helps the creators.
 
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@IcemanBo @The Panda

Simple statements shouldn't be exageratted:
  1. Panda thinks to wait for such type of given feedback by Ragnaros
  2. Ragnaros thinks given feedback is in acceptable range
  3. .. End ..
.. it's only some disagreement, no need to tell someone "you can drop contest if you don't agree..", "you have no authority to ask me..", and of course Panda also could not punish someone in this case. Seems like wasted pushing.
If there's a problem in someone's opinion then everyone has for sure the authority to voice out his opinion, but if that's really the same thing Appointed Staff agrees with that it requires punishment, can be something different.. so one can handle it calmly by just also explaining his opinion.

In the end it's a shame if someone thinks about leaving contest because of an emotional discussion where nothing really happend.

My apology for @The Panda for the coment: "you can drop contest if you don't like it", that was bad and very unnecesary from my part.


I could have said my opinion but much more civilizated. I am sorry


A (TFT) map without tavern will not be balanced. The same holds for golbin shops.

Agree

Here's my WIP.

View attachment 305686 View attachment 305687 View attachment 305688 View attachment 305689

*** QUESTION : IS A TAVERN REQUIRED???? (Such as RoC maps) - If it is I will add one, but I don't want to. ***

~~~~
the tavern is needed for resurrect the hero fast and to buy heroes to balance the NE race. NE don´t have a strong hero, they have agility and inteligent. Thats why NE tend to buy Rexarr or the Pandarem heroes for melee combat.

Your goldmines seems very exposed, the goldmine and the wood are far away each other, is necesary to have wood near, to protect the harvesters (peos, wisps, acolites), try to do some kind of U region.

Same goes for goldmines without wood, you can do a U region with cliff or deep water.
 
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There are still places?
I want to participate! :)

Limit is 30 (for the moment, is not written in stone yet), we are 21, so yes you are in, glad you join us.!!

good luck


@Ragnaros17 Haha :cgrin: just as I feared - the players won't know how to use the bridges.
Here's what you have to do:
1) Get yourself a siege unit - demolisher, meat wagon, etc
2) Aim for the rune (since aiming for the tree won't do anything, weird hitbox)
3) Enjoy the new bridge

Thanks for the vids mate, appreciate it. Imo it's good that the people here give each other the feedback, really helps the creators.
Okey, if that the case don´t forget to explain it well in the description, people won´t figure out.

edit: it worked!!!,

is very original but: NE and orcs can do that in Tier 1, while HU and Undead only can in Tier 2, (the siege units I mean).
just saying.

edit:

I didn´t test the trees with AOE skills of the heroes, it may destroy the bridge too.



upload_2018-9-2_12-25-16.png


 
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@mafe
You mean goblin shops are not allowed?

@Ragnaros17
You mean the first expansion? OK


upload_2018-9-2_15-13-11.png


those goldmines can´t be defended, your peons will be killed since it has 360º uncovered. There is a concept called standard base.
like your main base.

by the way, the map looks cool.

edit: oh unfinished, of course, now I see the tileset as future U area.

edit:

General comment: the lightining rod (charged level 2), there are tons of post about its imbalance mostly against human footmans. If you put a marketplace and charged level 2 items manually excluding the rod, it will appear (happened to me with an item I wanted to exclude from game, the tome of the deads).
After using it, I think is not more powerfull than the scroll of protection or scroll of the beast (if I want to win I buy scrolls of protection and of heal), or than the fire skill of the mage. But I think that item worths as a charged level 3, not a charged level 2.
 
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@mafe
I edited, now the map has one Goblin Merchant, two Taverns, one Zeppelin.

@Ragnaros17
Those were unfinished. I think they are better now but since they are expansions and close to the player base I don't want to make them too defended. The player can wall in with buildings to fortify it.
 
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first version

if you are interested in some feedback, I played your map, and did a video, like I did with others maps.

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/avahor-map-part1-rar.305779/

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/avahor-map-part2-rar.305778/

I like the design/layout of the map and the enviroment you created by using a lot of tilesets.

I chrono the time that requires to reach from one base to another. The time that is required is 1 min and 7 sec.
Since the size is 192x96, 192 is like some large distance to walk from one part to another.

128x96 size may reduce the walking distance, but well, is up to you if you want to reduce size or not.

Apart from the size (If you want to keep it in 192x96), I can sugest 2 things from the play.


upload_2018-9-2_22-55-44.png



1) When I was in the yellow X with my army, the enemy destroyed my Ancient of War in the merc creep and went to my goldmine (yellow arrow), I went to the goldmine as fast as I could but imposible to defend it and reach it time. Maybe do a conection between areas where I put the green line.
2) The goblin lab seems to be to far away from the "game", it took me 42 seconds to reach it from the base. Maybe a conection where I put the red line can again decrese the walking distance.

Again this are just a couple of subjetive sugestion, is up to you if you think my sugestion can improve the map

I wish good luck and see ya.
 
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@Blood Raven , @Ragnaros17 sorry for the long waiting time, but I believe, that trigers can be allowed as long as they dont interupt the gameplay. Be carefull though, because bad use of triggers may cost some point in the final result.

@Erkan looks cool, new tileset?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Finally had some time, here is my WIP:


Wip.png
 
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@Ragnaros17 thank you for the feedback. Indeed some areas of the map aren't resolved yet, I'll add those shorcuts. Abut the size of the map, let me think about it.

@RFWH thank you mate!


yeah I know that the notice about the distance is not that good and I hate to be the messenger, but well there is plenty of time yet, good luck

First version uploaded available here!
:wwink:


Comments and playtesting appreciated :)

@Avahor
The map looks very detailed, sort of like WoW style!

- It's big
- Lots of trees
- reminds me of that island map from roc

if you want a video of the play:

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/attachments/rfwh-rar.305805/

the goblin lab in the center is very original, first I went there,to secure the goblin saw machine thats the prize, then I went to the market and then to the enemy base,
there are 3 main paths, and I used the 3. Base is no-orthodox but it seems it can work too.

a hint to fix this path to the south east goldmine is a chokepoint, heroes can be trapped,, the path can be more wide.

it was somehow a fun and fast play, and I enjoy it.


upload_2018-9-3_10-34-23.png






@Blood Raven , @Ragnaros17 sorry for the long waiting time, but I believe, that trigers can be allowed as long as they dont interupt the gameplay. Be carefull though, because bad use of triggers may cost some point in the final result.

@Erkan looks cool, new tileset?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Finally had some time, here is my WIP:


nah, just 2 animations for doodads in position X and Y and the quest with credits those triggers are cheap ones,, and well also I want to add a sky.
 
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@Ragnaros17

Yeah, the corner bases still need tweaking... Originally they were zeppelin only then I decided to link them in... anyway not sure what i'll do with that. In my playthroughs I never even got past 2 gold mines anyway, the game was fast and pretty fun.


Edit... @Ragnaros17
I changed the lower right gold mine. I think it's better, since the base is closer and could be zeppelin dropped. Still don't know what to do with top left.
 
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@Ragnaros17

Yeah, the corner bases still need tweaking... Originally they were zeppelin only then I decided to link them in... anyway not sure what i'll do with that. In my playthroughs I never even got past 2 gold mines anyway, the game was fast and pretty fun.

Yeah corners are complicated, playing melee maps is like tennis, you don´t want to be in one corner because it will be hard to manuver and be in a good domain position of the map, and counter the enemy, but puting nice things in the corners, make them atractive to go, like, the need of more gold.


for the screen looks very good, I like the neutrals position.
 
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Yeah corners are complicated, playing melee maps is like tennis, you don´t want to be in one corner because it will be hard to manuver and be in a good domain position of the map, and counter the enemy, but puting nice things in the corners, make them atractive to go, like, the need of more gold.



for the screen looks very good, I like the neutrals position.


Right. Well I updated the map so if you have time try it out and see what you think.
 
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Right. Well I updated the map so if you have time try it out and see what you think.

I was looking the map, and one thing went in my mind.


upload_2018-9-3_14-11-26.png



I think that orange creep may prevent (aggro) early combat (one hero and two footman/archer/grunts/ghouls), I think is easy to put the orange to the edge of the deep water, so that path will be more clear(like the other orange creep).

edit: another sugestion, maybe, for human play, humans expand fast with militia, you have 2 units with pulverize (damage all units) and the hydra level 6 that spawns hydras level 3 with poison, Age of War creeping is much more safe.

maybe it will be better to not have the combination Pulverize + Poison, the crabs level 3 with no skill can be with the hydra. but thats your choice.

edit2:
about the goldmines:

1) I like that the south east one has 2 path, but the goldmine it self is vulnerable for siege attack from the other side of the deep water, also the Warden can teleport and with fan of knifes kill the peons fast.
Always is good that the townhall and a wall of trees protects the peons area somehow (I think).

2) maybe the north west goldmine can be a mirrow of the south east, so players will pick one.
The creeps of those goldmines are level 21, maybe if you decrease it to 19 (orange), it will be a psycologycal effect of expanding there early (red creeps scary more than an orange).

This is subjetive feedback, of course is up to you to see what do you think is the best.

good luck
 
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