Condemnation

[WolfFarkas]

You can improve your map by importing material of the Hive.

-You can have new models to have new heroes. There are like 50-100 models of elfs to do new elfs heroes and units.
- Idem to the other races.
- You can import icons for the new units, and make new tech- trees.

You can import spells and make new spells (you can use the pre- existent and alter the models. Example Storm Bolt of the dwarf hero, you can use that spell change the icon, change the model, and you have a new skill. It can be a shadow explosion or a venom strike. There are tons of spell models here in the Hive.
- You can import models for the buildings, there are tons of elf buildings and others models too.

- Also you can do new items for the races. And new creeps.


Well just a sugestion, have good luck.

see ya.



edit: use hidden tags for the description

screen 1

screen

 

[Daffa]

Reviewer: Daffa the Mage Map Name: Condemnation [Custom Race] Map Author: Mandriel Map Uploader: Mandriel Originality The idea is not the most original, as we have seen a lot of iteration of all the races offered here. Score: 30/100 Presentation Too many walls of text with no proper formatting. It makes it quite difficult to navigate through the presentation and point of interest is easily lost between the text walls. Good job on providing images and screenshots. Score: 55/100 Design Plus point for soundset Swordsman icon is footman, model is swordsman/captain Blacksmith upgrade still uses default icon, kind of unfit for Archers and Ballistae with the gun upgrade Do not mix elves with dwarves along with human buildings to define High Elves. Use proper materials for them. Troll in chaos orc? Warchief with Divine Shield? Ogre Magi makes goblin land mine? (Ogre --> Goblin) Why half of demon's army are undead? It doesn't actually fit the 'demon' theme pretty well Nature's Blessing? Kind of a not fitting name for a corrupted race In short, the design is somewhat decent but could be improved. A LOT. Score: 35/100 Critical Error -> Vote for Awaiting Update! Object Data If you carefully check through tooltips, there's a lot of error in hero related ones. Mostly ones which has been changed to fit the race's theme. Shop only has 1 item actually altered per race. Many of the units retain statistic from their default form, with slight changes. This kind of ruin interest and the sense of 'new races'. Score: 45/100 Gameplay Mostly the same as melee, though with some alteration. I'd say it adds some new feelings for players but when it comes to choice, it's still pretty similar to the usual one at Melee. Score: 45/100 I'm uncertain if I have seen this layout before, though I feel it's pretty familiar. As such, I discarded terrain scoring for this review until a confirmation is made if this is made by the author or taken from an existing material. Check out the Models | HIVE section for models for your races Along with above, check Icons | HIVE section for proper icons If you need some complex spells, Spells | HIVE and Requests are good choices to look for them Final Score: 42.000/100 2/5 Vote for Awaiting Update

 

[Mandriel]

You can improve your map by importing material of the Hive.

-You can have new models to have new heroes. There are like 50-100 models of elfs to do new elfs heroes and units.
- Idem to the other races.
- You can import icons for the new units, and make new tech- trees.

You can import spells and make new spells (you can use the pre- existent and alter the models. Example Storm Bolt of the dwarf hero, you can use that spell change the icon, change the model, and you have a new skill. It can be a shadow explosion or a venom strike. There are tons of spell models here in the Hive.
- You can import models for the buildings, there are tons of elf buildings and others models too.

- Also you can do new items for the races. And new creeps.


Well just a sugestion, have good luck.

see ya.



edit: use hidden tags for the description

screen 1

screen

Hi!

Thanks for this review!

Actually that was the idea at first, but I decided to only go with the models already supplied by Blizzard, with a few exceptions.

But that wasn't easy either. My goal was to make it as balanced as possible. Since I'm not a pro-user of the world editor I decided this was enough.

But anyway, I am really happy with the end result and I hope some people will enjoy playing it

Also, the "hidden tag thing" was a good idea! Looks much better now.

 

[Mandriel]

Reviewer: Daffa the Mage Map Name: Condemnation [Custom Race] Map Author: Mandriel Map Uploader: Mandriel Originality The idea is not the most original, as we have seen a lot of iteration of all the races offered here. Score: 30/100 Presentation Too many walls of text with no proper formatting. It makes it quite difficult to navigate through the presentation and point of interest is easily lost between the text walls. Good job on providing images and screenshots. Score: 55/100 Design Plus point for soundset Swordsman icon is footman, model is swordsman/captain Blacksmith upgrade still uses default icon, kind of unfit for Archers and Ballistae with the gun upgrade Do not mix elves with dwarves along with human buildings to define High Elves. Use proper materials for them. Troll in chaos orc? Warchief with Divine Shield? Ogre Magi makes goblin land mine? (Ogre --> Goblin) Why half of demon's army are undead? It doesn't actually fit the 'demon' theme pretty well Nature's Blessing? Kind of a not fitting name for a corrupted race In short, the design is somewhat decent but could be improved. A LOT. Score: 35/100 Critical Error -> Vote for Awaiting Update! Object Data If you carefully check through tooltips, there's a lot of error in hero related ones. Mostly ones which has been changed to fit the race's theme. Shop only has 1 item actually altered per race. Many of the units retain statistic from their default form, with slight changes. This kind of ruin interest and the sense of 'new races'. Score: 45/100 Gameplay Mostly the same as melee, though with some alteration. I'd say it adds some new feelings for players but when it comes to choice, it's still pretty similar to the usual one at Melee. Score: 45/100 I'm uncertain if I have seen this layout before, though I feel it's pretty familiar. As such, I discarded terrain scoring for this review until a confirmation is made if this is made by the author or taken from an existing material. Check out the Models | HIVE section for models for your races Along with above, check Icons | HIVE section for proper icons If you need some complex spells, Spells | HIVE and Requests are good choices to look for them Final Score: 42.000/100 2/5 Vote for Awaiting Update

Hi!

Thank you for your review!

My idea was at first to use custom icons, spells, models, etc. found here on Hiveworkshop. But I decided not to and instead did go with the already existing material, since this map as whole took me long enough to make and I didn't want to complicate it any further.

No, the layout nor the terrain is taken from somewhere else. It is entirely my work. I started making this map in 2016, then "put on shelf" for a year or so and then continued this year. I have some photos of the terrain being made:

Photos

12-12-2016

14-12-2016

18-12-2016

Another reason why I didn't want to complicate it any futher by adding all custom spells, all custom units etc. is because I wanted the map to be balanced. Also it took me a ridiculous amount of time to make the map in its current state. May not seem like much, but I'm not a pro-user of the world editor and I also tried many things and then gave up on them because I couldn't do it properly. For example the triggering part. That is why I didn't make too many custom spells and units. I didn't know how to make the AI use them. I have asked for help with this: hiveworkshop.com/threads/how-to-make-computer-use-custom-skills.307040/

The presentation part should be good now. I didn't have the time to write it all in one day before, thus leaving it half-completed while you reviewed it. Sorry for that.

This is the kind of map I like to make and I'm really happy to finally have it completed. However, I really like how you took your time to go into detail on it. Whatever you liked it or not, thanks for that! Hardest part was no doubt to make the 3,5 sound sets (Sylvanas had some existing lines) I used. But they became really good in the end.

Anyway, thanks again for the review

 

[WolfFarkas]

Hi!

Thanks for this review!

Actually that was the idea at first, but I decided to only go with the models already supplied by Blizzard, with a few exceptions.

But that wasn't easy either. My goal was to make it as balanced as possible. Since I'm not a pro-user of the world editor I decided this was enough.

But anyway, I am really happy with the end result and I hope some people will enjoy playing it

Also, the "hidden tag thing" was a good idea! Looks much better now.

About balance you can have same skills coated with new models, and new icons, but is the same skill in numbers.

I am just an user, and I just wanted to give sugestions, I don´t decide if a map is approved or not.

If you want to create new races in further maps you can always count with Hive models, they area easy to use, and some of them area really cool.

See ya

 

[Daffa]

Hi!

Thank you for your review!

My idea was at first to use custom icons, spells, models, etc. found here on Hiveworkshop. But I decided not to and instead did go with the already existing material, since this map as whole took me long enough to make and I didn't want to complicate it any further.

No, the layout nor the terrain is taken from somewhere else. It is entirely my work. I started making this map in 2016, then "put on shelf" for a year or so and then continued this year. I have some photos of the terrain being made:

Photos

12-12-2016

14-12-2016

18-12-2016

Another reason why I didn't want to complicate it any futher by adding all custom spells, all custom units etc. is because I wanted the map to be balanced. Also it took me a ridiculous amount of time to make the map in its current state. May not seem like much, but I'm not a pro-user of the world editor and I also tried many things and then gave up on them because I couldn't do it properly. For example the triggering part. That is why I didn't make too many custom spells and units. I didn't know how to make the AI use them. I have asked for help with this: hiveworkshop.com/threads/how-to-make-computer-use-custom-skills.307040/

The presentation part should be good now. I didn't have the time to write it all in one day before, thus leaving it half-completed while you reviewed it. Sorry for that.

This is the kind of map I like to make and I'm really happy to finally have it completed. However, I really like how you took your time to go into detail on it. Whatever you liked it or not, thanks for that! Hardest part was no doubt to make the 3,5 sound sets (Sylvanas had some existing lines) I used. But they became really good in the end.

Anyway, thanks again for the review

Understand that people don't want complications over development (and yeah, been there myself) but there's a necessity to have some difference than the default ones we see a lot.

Thanks for the clarification, I will account that if I have time for another review. It's nice that you added some of the earlier stage development as proof. Though the layout strikingly familiar with some maps (perhaps due to how Melee is layout-ed most of time; a mirror style)

For balance, it's usually possible to see with some testing. An exact balance is very hard that even Blizzard might've somewhat failed in that part (see warcraft patches). I see the thread and I see that I was involved there. AI heroes will not use custom spell if you use default script, you can alter the script or use AI editor to make them recognize the custom abilities properly.

I suggest to have it done first before posting when you post another map

Soundset are uncommon to see in maps, so it was a pretty good addition. With polish on the design and gameplay aspect further, this can be an interesting map. If I may recommend, you can see some other altered melee maps to inspire yourself.

EDIT :

Would you mind posting a changelog?

 

[Mandriel]

Understand that people don't want complications over development (and yeah, been there myself) but there's a necessity to have some difference than the default ones we see a lot.

Thanks for the clarification, I will account that if I have time for another review. It's nice that you added some of the earlier stage development as proof. Though the layout strikingly familiar with some maps (perhaps due to how Melee is layout-ed most of time; a mirror style)

For balance, it's usually possible to see with some testing. An exact balance is very hard that even Blizzard might've somewhat failed in that part (see warcraft patches). I see the thread and I see that I was involved there. AI heroes will not use custom spell if you use default script, you can alter the script or use AI editor to make them recognize the custom abilities properly.

I suggest to have it done first before posting when you post another map

Soundset are uncommon to see in maps, so it was a pretty good addition. With polish on the design and gameplay aspect further, this can be an interesting map. If I may recommend, you can see some other altered melee maps to inspire yourself.

EDIT :

Would you mind posting a changelog?

But it's right here, just at the start of the description:

Do you want me to post it somewhere else?

 

[Daffa]

Ah sorry, didn't notice that.

 

[WindowsVistaSucks]

Not much to be said, since it's already been said. But if there is anything note worthy, id say it's the terrain and design of it itself. The time it takes to make maps is actually ridiculously time consuming, so I understand that making this isn't exactly a walk in the park. However I think if you just put an extra 2-4 hours on it, it could greatly be improved. Things such as custom icons, custom models(For both units and effects) and more interesting spells. Overall it's pretty decent, but I wouldn't play it again. (2.5/5)

 

[WolfFarkas]

Not much to be said, since it's already been said. But if there is anything note worthy, id say it's the terrain and design of it itself. The time it takes to make maps is actually ridiculously time consuming, so I understand that making this isn't exactly a walk in the park. However I think if you just put an extra 2-4 hours on it, it could greatly be improved. Things such as custom icons, custom models(For both units and effects) and more interesting spells. Overall it's pretty decent, but I wouldn't play it again. (2.5/5)

In altered melee, balance and terrain is a must, but it doesn´t give you points for altered melee.

Thats why users do altered melee from a pre-existant map, generally a 4 player map from Blizzard, (to reduce time-mapping)

 

[Daffa]

I looked at changelog and noticed it's not pretty significant of difference from the time I made the review (either 1.0 or 1.01), 1.02 doesn't give anything big or new to the table.

 

[deepstrasz]

1. From a melee perspective this map is not balanced. You can not get to your adversary say with a rush tactic without risking to engage neutral hostile units and the middle is completely inaccessible until late game.
2. Medivh as a High Elf?
3. Abilities are just normal Warcraft III ones. Please be creative and or use custom made ones: Spells | HIVE
   
4. High Elves=99% Human. Not sure about 10 food.
5. Warlocks cast Shaman spells...
6. Goblin Land mines don't say how much damage they deal...
7. The Firelord is an elemental not a demon nor undead.
8. Archimonde is too big.
9. Rain of Chaos has a big range (seemingly) but more importantly the huge AoE makes the chances of any meteor hitting the enemy low unless mid-late game when armies are large.
10. The Demonic Gate is too big and might be problematic to build in this narrow pathed map.
11. Demon Guards have chaos damage. That needs proper balancing especially when the damage also affects nearby enemies in a 25%.
12. Corrupted Protector doesn't attack anything as the build description says.
13. Shouldn't Poison Sting be autocast? It's kind of useless to cast it yourself when it deals so little damage.

1-5% changes. Please see what real and good altered melee is:
How to: Create a Full-working Custom Race
Custom Race Creation: Advanced Mechanics
UB - Ultimate Battle v2.10 AI+
Deforestation of Felwood v2.1.1
Nightborne v1.04
Planetary Domination v2.04
Sands of Time [v1.9]
The Grand Citadel (Racial Issue 1.6)

Awaiting Update.

---

If you want more reviews, you should participate in the The Grand Review Exchange!

R U L E S

Site Rules
Map Submission Rules

M A P - D E S C R I P T I O N

Details

BB CODES
BB Codes | HIVE

MELEE MAPS
Description Guide - Melee Maps
Describing Your Melee Map
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
Map Thread Guide
Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

• A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
  
• A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.
  
• Map thread tags are important. Please use those that fit and not more or none.

M A P - C R E A T I O N - G U I D E S

Details

MELEE MAPPING
How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
Competitive Melee Map
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps

PATHING
Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
Paillan
twojstaryjakcie
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

 

[Mandriel]

1. From a melee perspective this map is not balanced. You can not get to your adversary say with a rush tactic without risking to engage neutral hostile units and the middle is completely inaccessible until late game.
2. Medivh as a High Elf?
3. Abilities are just normal Warcraft III ones. Please be creative and or use custom made ones: Spells | HIVE
   
4. High Elves=99% Human. Not sure about 10 food.
5. Warlocks cast Shaman spells...
6. Goblin Land mines don't say how much damage they deal...
7. The Firelord is an elemental not a demon nor undead.
8. Archimonde is too big.
9. Rain of Chaos has a big range (seemingly) but more importantly the huge AoE makes the chances of any meteor hitting the enemy low unless mid-late game when armies are large.
10. The Demonic Gate is too big and might be problematic to build in this narrow pathed map.
11. Demon Guards have chaos damage. That needs proper balancing especially when the damage also affects nearby enemies in a 25%.
12. Corrupted Protector doesn't attack anything as the build description says.
13. Shouldn't Poison Sting be autocast? It's kind of useless to cast it yourself when it deals so little damage.

1-5% changes. Please see what real and good altered melee is:
How to: Create a Full-working Custom Race
Custom Race Creation: Advanced Mechanics
UB - Ultimate Battle v2.10 AI+
Deforestation of Felwood v2.1.1
Nightborne v1.04
Planetary Domination v2.04
Sands of Time [v1.9]
The Grand Citadel (Racial Issue 1.6)

Awaiting Update.

---

If you want more reviews, you should participate in the The Grand Review Exchange!

R U L E S

Site Rules
Map Submission Rules

M A P - D E S C R I P T I O N

Details

BB CODES
BB Codes | HIVE

MELEE MAPS
Description Guide - Melee Maps
Describing Your Melee Map
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
Map Thread Guide
Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

• A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
  
• A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.
  
• Map thread tags are important. Please use those that fit and not more or none.

M A P - C R E A T I O N - G U I D E S

Details

MELEE MAPPING
How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
Competitive Melee Map
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps

PATHING
Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
Paillan
twojstaryjakcie
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

I have done what I can and have time for, the map has taken me a ridiculously long time to make. One last question; is it really that bad that it only gets 1,5 out of 5? And it won't get approved?

 

[WolfFarkas]

I have done what I can and have time for, the map has taken me a ridiculously long time to make. One last question; is it really that bad that it only gets 1,5 out of 5? And it won't get approved?

One thing is the time that takes to make a map, and another the quality of the map (both things are independent).

When you have knoledge, you can make a better map, there are ways to make a map fast like (mirrow the terrain and doodads, that reduce mapping x 4: x2 terrain and x2 doodads).


When an user does altered melee , it use a already existing map, a 4 player map of Blizzard so the user focus only in the altered melee and in the creation of new races.

Make a list of things to do: so you will use the time better.

1) units Models,
2) buildings models,
3) spell models,
4) unit icons,
5) spell icons,
6) item icons,
7) text explaining everyone of them.
8) Beta test the play.

x4 per race

you can do one race and then update and another, and another, and another until reach the 4 races (wich is great).

"One last question; is it really that bad that it only gets 1,5 out of 5? And it won't get approved?"

I am agree with Deepstraz review and his score, thats why I gave you the sugestion to use imported material to improve the map, again there are like 60 elf models that suit perfect for the elf race. And there are tons of spell models and icons to do new things.


see ya

 

[Mandriel]

One thing is the time that takes to make a map, and another the quality of the map (both things are independent).

When you have knoledge, you can make a better map, there are ways to make a map fast like (mirrow the terrain and doodads, that reduce mapping x 4: x2 terrain and x2 doodads).


When an user does altered melee , it use a already existing map, a 4 player map of Blizzard so the user focus only in the altered melee and in the creation of new races.

Make a list of things to do: so you will use the time better.

1) units Models,
2) buildings models,
3) spell models,
4) unit icons,
5) spell icons,
6) item icons,
7) text explaining everyone of them.
8) Beta test the play.

x4 per race

you can do one race and then update and another, and another, and another until reach the 4 races (wich is great).

"One last question; is it really that bad that it only gets 1,5 out of 5? And it won't get approved?"

I am agree with Deepstraz review and his score, thats why I gave you the sugestion to use imported material to improve the map, again there are like 60 elf models that suit perfect for the elf race. And there are tons of spell models and icons to do new things.


see ya

Thanks,

I don't have the time to do that right now, that's the problem...

I don't know how to make the AI use custom spells and units if I import them. That is why I didn't.

As you said, knowledge is the key.

Maybe I'll return to map-making one day.

Cya!

 

[WolfFarkas]

Thanks,

I don't have the time to do that right now, that's the problem...

I don't know how to make the AI use custom spells and units if I import them. That is why I didn't.

As you said, knowledge is the key.

Maybe I'll return to map-making one day.

Cya!

"I don't know how to make the AI use custom spells and units if I import them. That is why I didn't."

me neither, but I think there are tutorials for that.

thats not mandatory, you can say that the map is for 4 user players. Or you can leave 1 race unchanged so you can figth against that AI with the no changed race.

Even you can have 1 race camouflaged with new models and icons but same skills for AI play.
An the other 3 totally custom

 

[deepstrasz]

This is not about custom models at all but custom content in general and I mean custom in and with the editor. The techtrees are bad, basically almost unedited. I've given you examples of good maps so you'd understand what Altered Melee actually is, not just a few edits, no matter the alleged time you needed for it.

 

[Mandriel]

"Any techtree changes?"

No, just restored them after the patch update. Since the latest patch 1.30 moved some units around. For example the Ogre Magi was moved to the Dragon Roost in my case and the Hippogryph Training was removed, thus my poison sting upgrade disappeared. I've just restored that, so no techtree changes.

 

[deepstrasz]

I'm afraid things are quite the same overall.

Substandard.

(previous review: Condemnation (Custom Races))

 

[Ether]

Just played the map and here are my things to say:

• I like the effort you touched all the in-game races to fully convert them into different playable races.
• The AI works indeed and when I play maps like these, one thing I look first is how the computer AI behaves.
• Terrain is okay, passes to Warcraft III standards.

CHAOS ORCS
- I wonder why there are uncorrupted cyan skinned headhunters there if it is chaos orcs.
- Guldans can be trained too.

HIGH ELVES
- I don't exactly get when there is a gryphon aviary of dwarves and trainable dwarven unit.
- Medivh/Guardian is out of place for the high elves.
- Did the captain replace the knight as equivalent?

BURNING LEGION
- I find there are more undead units than legiion units or demons. That makes a less feel and essence of legion-ish.
- Firelord looks very awkward to be in there.

NAGA
- Ancients with naga? Maybe call it Illidari.
- If it is not Illidari and mainly Naga, then Akama, night elf corrupted ancients, and Illidan are kind of out of place.

SUGGESTIONS:

• Try to use custom models and icons. We have seen the classic in-game stuffs like about 15 years. I'm sure there are tons of useful stuff here.
• Try to make balance of the races or somehow read some lore facts and racial encyclopedia and learn more of each race/faction you wanna make.

 

[Mvyrea]

As an amateur editor, I can tell you that I know the time it takes to do this kind of thing, I know it's a lot and that when you upload your work you expect something more than what you usually receive.

From my point of view, it is not that the work is bad, is that in this forum there are great works in relation to personalized races. It is very difficult to contribute works of a similar level and also very frustrating.

I have seen myself in the same situation, dedicate months to a project and when the truth is there is not enough, not even to approve. My advice, and it is the advice that gave me a moderator of this forum, is that you look at high quality works that are in the forum, look how they do things and try to adopt that method of work when making your own projects

Greetings and do not be discouraged by a bad score.