Burnings frost souls clan

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Burnings frost souls clan

Techtree Contest #18 - MtG Color Pairs

recommended version: 1.26


How to play: if you want to play for Burnings frost souls clan choose human

lore: Burnings frost souls clan never was among the good races, but not among the bad race too,
tends to be in between them. Clan members represent one of two elements fire or ice. But clan leader represent both of them and thats why he is members follow him, because it fulfills both prophecies of ice and fire.With his leadership, the clan will not end, but he will become the hegemon of his age, first age !

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Burnings frost souls clan (Map)

Reviews
deepstrasz
Pretty much regular Warcraft III stuff. Basically, an edited Human faction. Tentacles are quite useless and expensive, weak and low ranged. I suggest adding an ability with cooldown for them to be moved around from place to place within a certain...
Disclaimer : this criticism takes in account the fact that the map is in a state where it must be bruised before being stable. I could be harsh but I can see potential here. Everything I say will become irrelevant once changes are made, or if you take an other path someway.

TL;DR : way too incomplete to be a proper Wc3 faction, despite flukes of badly exploited interesting ideas.

Replays
In the first game, I played normally without getting too hard.
The second I spammed T1 units.
The third I spammed T3 units.
The only strategy I found is outproducing the enemy, since your faction doesn't have much variety and combos.

Initial defenses ?
I don't know if your faction is supposed to have a weak start, because this is how you can do both a weak and incomplete start. Humans have militia, undead have ghouls and blight, orcs have burrows, elves have moon wells, ancients and exploding wisps, your faction have... nothing. Even the main building have weak defenses.

Wonky prices
Mother of Thales. These doesn't make any sense. Workers are cheaper indeed, but 112 gold vanguard ? Round it up to 115 for example, and give them like an extra 5-10 hp. Axe upgrades are 120/150 208/328 and 296/506 ??? Round it up It won't hurt you much.

Burning archer
Light armor ? Burning aura ? I see it quite unbalanced. It's melting under ranged fire (ranged are supposed to tank other ranged), and making them close on combat crumbles their low resistance. In late game they deal a lot of damage once upgraded.
Side per dice from 9 to 6
They would still be decent for early game without punching too hard late game. They would accomplish their ranged role as intended !
Armor type from light to medium
HP from 285 to 330
As they are more expensive than a Vanguard on raw stats, it would be coherent to give them more HP. Still, the archers would be weak against melee.
Mana from 300 to 0
Mana regeneration from 0.75 to 0.433/s
Starting mana from 300 to 50
Flame arrows upgrades mana boost from 0 to 300
New T3 upgrade at the Concentrator of War to increase mana regen of archer from 0.433 to 0.8
Flame aura damage per second from 10 to 4
New upgrade T2 upgrade increasing the flame aura damage from 4 to 8
Until Tier 3 it have useless mana, making the game less balanced since there's mana stealers/burners.
They spawn with full mana, which have too much impact on production. So by reducing its starting mana they can still nail yet some flame arrows after creation.


Oni
Well, that's your only siege unit... which is weak to towers and ranged. Fire breath could be too devastating but since it's getting melted by ranged units, it doesn't hit many times. Here's the changes I would suggest :
Breath of fire damage from 150 to 50
Breath of fire range from 800 to 350
These would reduce its power while keeping its splash intent.
Hitpoints from 500 to 1100
Armor from 0 to 2
Armor type from unarmored to heavy
Base damage from 26 to 30
Number of dices from 1 to 3
Sides per dice from 4 to 6
Gold cost from 195 to 220
Lumber cost from 32 to 40
Range from 100 to 120
A more interesting siege unit !
Muscle upgrade life increase from 150 to 200
Muscle upgrade HP regen increase from 0 to 1/s
It's a tank, you idiot !
Then, If you want to make it a siege unit, give it a siege ability. For example to stun a building in distance, or burn then in AoE. Finally, I would suggest a defensive ability, for example a self heal, hard skin, resistant skin, and maybe unlocked through upgrades. It would benefit your content.

First of the fires
Abriged to FotF, this elite unit can take care of many things by itself, except magic immune targets. Your lack of air units could benefit from making the FotF an air unit. Like the other creeps you copied don't forget to set the mana to melee units range. It starts with 500 beefy mana ready to be spammed.

Deposit
This one is a tough nut to crack. It have the advantages of using items but the rest is severly lacking : weak in battle, debuff allies when killed, too expensive for its use. In late game you won't have much items so having a secondary hero-unit isn't very useful. I can see two opposite workarounds :
1) Make any elite units able to use items and delete the deposit
2) Make the deposit stronger and getting stronger when fighting/killing units, plus making them able to be resurrected.

Other advice
Don't stop making maps. You still have a long way to go. Polish every single details so it will transition smoothly : icons, texts, duration, bugs, and so on. If you want we can take some time discussing and helping you sorting these ideas into a concept.

More you'll hate me more you'll learn :ogre_hurrhurr:

Provisional and personal Tier-notation
M&S] When Mythical and Spellbound makes something together on Warcraft 3
S] Great, elegant, extra thicc, easily hooks the mind
A] Good. Nothing much to say except nitpick
B] Genuinely OK, but can be better in many ways
C] Average. Not bad, not good. C- would be "meh"
D] Flawed, or insignificant
E] Unstable, badly made, or just broken
F] Fatal error, ruins the rest
Aesthetics D- (How well the graphics blends with Warcraft 3 while being elegant)

There's effort of picking specific models, but they don't blend well together and with Warcraft 3. Some seem very out of place. Lots of active icons have passive or automatic borders. There's HD mixed with SD. I could be harsher although there's here and here some interesting choices. I would definitely pick models closer to Warcraft 3 with better animations. Also why there's blood, thunder and water effects ?
Fluff D- (The epicness, spice, philosophy and background of the faction)

With the few I got, that's quite insignificant. Too bad you had the time to give it more juice since it doesn't have a bad basis at all ! You don't have to write a whole book eh, don't get me wrong. The pitch would benefit greatly from a spicy detail, a personal philosophy or even an elegant short backstory. At least it doesn't have any incoherence...
Feel & juice E+ (How fun is it to play the faction, how well the faction gives you positive feedback)

Effects are very heterogeneous, sometimes HD and flashy, and most of the rest completely blend. I never had fun crushing my enemies even with elite units. Some effects are random and don't have visual feedbacks (if they work at all... cf. Balance and Handling). For example the First of the Fire have a blood explosion attack... which stops mid air without reaching the target. The Dragonfly changes projectile at each level, with not a lot of visual coherence. There's a lack of unit variety in numbers and roles, so when I want to deal pure siege damage to raze a base, I can't. Again you have a lot of space to improve, and I'm sure by rebuilding the vfx from scratch by picking the ones on the hive will greatly benefit your game feeling.
Strategy and tactic E+ (How the mechanics blends together, giving the faction its unique approach)

Not much to say, since there's not a lot of custom mecanics. You get some credit from mixing fire and ice effects. But these blending together in practice doesn't benefit the game. Each unit have small details worth to lean on, for example freezing a chunk of enemies with vanguards and burning them with the flame aura from burning archers. I expected way more from your hybrid faction, I was intrigued by your semi-hero units but got disappointed. Other units have too specific roles. I genuinely liked some original ideas but the execution is very flawed ; else it would have fallen to a E-.
Balance F+ (How its strengths leave space to the rest, does it blends gameplay-wise together with the other 4 races)

Your faction is a flock of black sheep, here we have the black hole sheep for numerous reasons. No proper siege unit (the oni have melee range, low hp and weak to ranged/towers), no detection before T3+, no displelling, only one hero, cannot recruit mercenary heroes, melee towers, no tanking units, broken mecanics (some spells doesn't even work, or last for a too short amount of time), fire archers are a bit broken when fully upgraded, no healing beside items and some very small bonus through abilities, no wood deposit, no initial defense (beside your T1 units and melee tower). It seems the faction have a cheap early game and expensive late game -it's not a bad thing in itself, but could be exploited better in my opinion.

You edited the map : tavern placement must be symetrical, the items drops are completely unbalanced, the map is still in 1.0 balance ; all of that doesn't deserve your map. Also you edited native abilities, which could impact to an extent neutrals units in other maps.
Content C (Does the faction feels complete compared to its intent and the other races)

Despite the bunch of other flaws your faction, there's some essentials. Admitting here you can recruit tavern heroes, there's custom items with some use, basic buildings, 3 tiers and enough units to have a non-linear composition. You are not stuck somewhere nor being less complete than naga. This is a basis you can continue on, and I encourage you to do so. You know where you want to go and you have something to work on ! But for a Warcraft 3 perspective, it's one feet out of place. With 3 or 4 heroes, 3-4 more units and additional custom mechanics you can easily go from bland to normal, and I won't be spared from good surprises. You were on good tracks !
Handling & ergonomics E (Does this faction have the proper data shown, how easy is it to understand)

Lots of typo and misspellings, some are still in (correct me if i'm wrong) polish. Descriptions lacks of explanations and are quite unclear sometimes. Some buildings models are very heavy on effects, and it's hard at first glance to differentiate buildings in construction. The prices are harder to read too. You loose a lot of easy points here.
Triggers, code, overall polishing D- (Is the map correctly coded, no leaks, have efficient algorithm, are details taken care of)

Let's start with triggers. There's not much complexity here. Everything is from the reach of a beginner in triggering. Beside the leaks and the awful trigger actions it doesn't freeze or crash, there's no performance destroyer nor side effects. Some abilities doesn't work. You cannot pick human, so you'll never be able to have custom vs human with players. Fixing these won't have impact on the game at all, but you would upgrade to D+. This is not a downside to the faction, don't misunderstand. Simplicity is bliss, this is too simple to analyze it. Something more complex but even more badly made would get worse points :]
Melee init
Leaks one group per player and 6 units handle
Why limiting the heroes to 3 ? It's already the case for all players. Add your custom heroes to the constants.

Wolves deposits leaks one player group and one location
Hour of clan / Stick of beetle / dragon breath / Ice pulse / : the one line group is awful to read. It's better to make it more readable for anyone. You won't loose performance.

Then, the units have a lot of minor issues : wrong selection circle size, not synced attack swings, buildings using special effect models are harder to select, which tends to reduce the quality.
Contest rules B (Only relevant in a Tech tree contest)

Color pairing is respected, but could be pushed further. Ice may be closer to blue/white than blue. By reworking your faction you would surely make it better remembered, and funnier to play. If it had the right content but the same quality, you would loose however points.
Overall tier E

The faction can be played at least with no technical issues. It's far from the minimum level I expect to my own maps. You may be a beginner, that's courageous to lay siege against a techtree contest. Work your triggering and polishing skills, test your maps with friends and strangers, gather feedback. You can only get better. Many mappers have gone through this stage. Your faction is a good playground to sharpen your skills, don't hesitate to go even further and beyond ! :mwahaha:
Personal taste E (No impact on the rest of the notation, just by curiosity)

Uh... I don't like this faction. It's poorly executed. And I'm even more disappointment since it proposed some interesting details. You may not have bad ideas. I did not have fun with it. I'm not angry, disgusted or sad against you don't worry. If you come back with a better version I would test it again. A song of ice and fire isn't written in one day ! :peasant-smile:

That's all for today. You reached the bottom of the post, congratulations ! :ogre_hurrhurr:
 

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Level 12
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
241
Hi ok I tested the map and some ideas from this new race are good but there are many bad things too:
-some descriptions for units, buildings, or abilities are pretty bad
-lack of hotkeys :you need to add Ex:|cffffcc00C|
-only 1 hero :if you want to make a race with only 1 hero you will need to make him pretty powerful otherwise you will not be able to win vs players that will have 3 heros
-about your defense tower the Tentacle is very weak: 120 gold, 380 hp, 0 armor, the dmg is ok, low attack speed and low range attack. You can easy destroy this tower with some range units.
-the first skill for your hero is not working: lev 1 is not working or the time is wrong because the effect will not last 10 sec
-like FlameofChange said in his review the unit Deposit is very weak and strange in the same time. His attack and defense type are making him a mini hero but the upgrades will not increase his dmg or def. And that skill with -40% dmg is very bad, the idea of this skill is pretty nice but not for this unit.
-the Oni unit is suppose to be the tank of your race but his armor type is unarmored and his hp is only 500.
-maybe you should change the sound for Ice Rock building, I mean the sound of the Banshi is not very fitting with a rock of ice
-maybe you can add some more units to your race because so far there are only: 3 melee units, 2 range units and 1 flying unit.
-also maybe you can find a better model for you Ice Cave building and maybe a new model for Great blue watcher (because the model for this building is more or less an animation for a good skill)
Well this is all, your race idea is pretty good and original, I really like some models from your map like: Warmed soul, Ancient monarch , Despotist.
:ogre_haosis:
 
Level 20
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
396
well i don't know altered melee since i am not a good at melee these day
Until I saw my boy Oni on the screenshot and i shout.

THAT'S MY BOY! MY BOY IS HERE NOW. :grin:
[P/S: I see my centaur too but maybe best prefer as Ice or Frozen Vanguard, i don't think i need a name cameo :p]
 
Last edited:

deepstrasz

Map Reviewer
Level 59
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
16,860
  1. Pretty much regular Warcraft III stuff. Basically, an edited Human faction.
  2. Tentacles are quite useless and expensive, weak and low ranged. I suggest adding an ability with cooldown for them to be moved around from place to place within a certain range.
  3. The Ancient Monarch has no hero glow. You could simply add one: How to add Hero Glow without Modeling
  4. Ice Power's description after you learn it has missing words/sentences. Generally, descriptions are not detailed or properly written. You could learn about this:
  5. Tooltip Tutorial
  6. The visual FX of that spell also moves around the hero and there's a line glitch appearing as well for a time.
  7. Great Blue Watcher's animation is annoying and distracting.
  8. Despotist is a useless unit because if it dies it gives the owning player a permanent negative aura. Training another doesn't remove the aura.
  9. Cry of Fear research should not have autocast borders as it is a research not a spell.
  10. Flame of Acheron is another annoyingly animated building.
  11. One hero and no siege unit.
Please consider the feedback from the judges when updating: [TC18] - Techtree Contest #18 - Results

Awaiting Update.


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