Dark Souls Dungeon

[Moderator]

Vengeancekael: Private Message
Date: 2012/Jan/13 20:16:50

Reasons:
Lacking Description: Template
Memory Leaks are not destroyed: Leaks tutorial
Missing custom preview image: To add a preview image, resize the image to 256x256 or 128x128 using gimp and save it as .tga. Import the image and change its path to 'war3mapPreview.tga'.
Poor and lacking terrain: Terrain Tutorial
The triggers are inefficient: Triggering Tutorials

Other:
Check out the tutorials section: Tutorials
Check out the Map Development Section: Map Development Section
Check out the World Editor Help Zone (Trigger issues, object editor, overall WE issues): WE Help Zone
Comment: The terrain is just awful, random heights on brick terrain tiles? :/
And it's also completely empty and at some spots spammed with random doodads.
The triggering is also quite bad, no memory leaks have been destroyed and a lot of things can be done more efficiently.
As far as spells go, I didn't see any custom spells, just default ones renamed with new effects, make it more unique :S

Also what's up with the many map types you've selected? Try to stick to one.
Admin Contact - Resource Moderation - Rules

 

[clinzin]

I'll gladly answer questions or comments personally on my email [email protected]

As the author i can give tips on how to beat it. And if you don't like it you can modify the map yourself, but please mention Clinz in the credits if uploading it yourself.

If an easier difficulty is requested, I will work on it myself.

Edit: From my friend's point of view, the game is way too punishing first time through - there really should be an easy mode, it is next to impossible to know what some enemies are capable of, dying to each one is almost unavoidable the first time you encounter them - then you will just learn to avoid them and leave them for later.

This game IS too cruel on the first play through.

Edit2: Updated game to fix a few bugs, add some more balance to classes and items, and make the game a bit more user friendly.

Edit3: Updated game again,
-bugfix: flasks no longer heal the soulfire.

-user friendly buff: The first abomination was swapped with a banshee because it was too cruel when you have no summons to divert its attention.

-balance: Killing free souls has its benefits, but now the consequences are a bit higher

In Short: game is more user friendly, yet it actually got harder!

 

[human-master112]

I quite enjoy it =D items are very balanced which makes the game entertaining.
Vote for Approval! =D

Remember to add +rep for people who help you!

 

[clinzin]

thanks

Glad you liked it!

 

[Rufus]

I do really want to test it but it is too late here... anyway you should add screenshots to make more people try it.

 

[Zaortharain]

Tested it with a buddy of mine tonight...took about 3 hours for us.

The first time we tried to play, the note about the soulburn command and the importance of the soul fire was drowned out by the descriptions of heroes while we were looking at who to play. I suggest either adding a note about it in quests or adding it to the intro rather than being a "tip" that can be lost if you're not careful.

With that said, a multiboard or counter for the soul fire might be nice rather than an occasional update.

Near the end, after we had harvested the souls of the mages guarding the soul fire, we often found abominations, banshees, and gargoyles who had been dragged to there attacking the soul fire. We managed to survive despite that, but it was fairly annoying that they could accelerate the process. Was that intentional? If not, perhaps you can make the soul fire invulnerable. If it was, well, that gives incentive not to kill the mages despite the tasty gold piece reward and soul reward. Or at least to drag mobs away from it.

We took so long mostly because we kept splitting up and then dying in the middle of mobs at the farthest reaches of the dungeon...getting gear back took many attempts...especially because it seemed like the random re-spawn chance always seemed to happen when the Conjurer was surrounded by enemies. For a while there, we were quite worried about souls, since we had only slain one of the 4 bosses and helped a few of the Free Souls be more useful. After killing the mages, we were set for the game and hoarded the boss souls despite not needing them. I believe we ended the game with around 7 total souls hoarded away without spending them. Honestly, though I spent a few earlier on stats, they felt WAY more useful as insurance for soul burn than 2 more Int or Str. I noticed the 3 for 1 level deal and the 3 for 1 new hero deal but...there is just not enough gold in the game to outfit another hero with end game gear and I would rather just grind on mobs for 700 ticks and soul burn than spend 3 souls on 1 level. Perhaps there can be some other incentive to try to get people to greedily spend their souls? Otherwise, I think next game I play, I would likely just hoard them for soul burns. Perhaps a "sell a soul" type deal to get 300 gold or something. THAT would have certainly been very tempting to me, early, mid, and late game.

Once we finally got our act together, had our stuff, and were near max level, we found that, as the Demon and the Conjurer, bosses were just a matter of the Demon having his howl or ultimate up and then the Conjurer throwing the protection shield on the demon, rinse and repeat until the boss died. At that point in the game, we were pretty much untouchable.

All in all, we had fun playing the game and would probably play it again just to try out different heroes. Perhaps we just had a very good combo for late game and that's why the hallways filled with abominations felt more tedious than dangerous.



Likes:
Damage/Armor system (Very easy to tell how much you are swinging for, because you swing chaos damage and only Boss mobs have armor)
Very minimalistic numbers. A lot of rpgs tend on the high side, while this was a lot cleaner to me.
Fun custom abilities, heroes, etc.
Good length of game compared to level. (I hit level 15, the max after clearing everywhere before the abomination hall leading to the Doomguard. My buddy only made it to level 13 by the time we fought Necron (Necros?)
Interesting concepts (Reviving mobs, "time limit", interesting boss fights)
No way to grind to victory. (Souls and gold were limited)
Bottomless Potions and the other, all unique, items. (Game changer for mages because of...)
Lack of HP regen.
Grenades for level 1 heroes. VERY useful. (At level 3, we managed to kill off the Shopkeeper thanks to his grenades. Tee hee.)


Dislikes:
The odd movements of the mobs (fleeing when hit sometimes), while sometimes useful for mages to kite, were very awkward. Sometimes, you couldn't get abominations to fight you, for instance, they would just run away and accidentally "run" to somewhere through a gateway and never be seen again...etc. The running back worked well for some things, such as gargoyles and banshees but if you can remove it for the ghouls and abominations, the game would run more smoothly. At one point, I actually had the enemy mobs kiting around my summoned elemental...it felt like a very good AI those times. Then the abominations would run across the map and never come back and it felt poor. With that said, it was, of course, highly abused in the early levels against ghouls to not die.
Lack of a Multiboard/alternate way to constantly monitor the soul fire, especially when you are trying to time the Soul Burn just right
Lack of incentive to use souls for anything but soul burn, even at level 1.



As much as we were amused by how many spells we had to reduce physical damage to 1 for 20 seconds, it was a bit much. We could cycle through them and only take damage from spells...which was of course halved by our cloaks late game to do piddling amounts of damage. Factor in our Demon's flawless katana, 52 base damage, and max vamp aura, we were just too un-killable late game. I'm not sure if it was just because we happened to have the 2 heroes that could work together to be nigh-invulnerable like that, but it certainly made the final boss fight, which looked very interesting and potentially deadly, quite easy.

 

[clinzin]

reply.

First off, thanks for playing the map and for a very constructive review.

"The first time we tried to play, the note about the soulburn command and the importance of the soul fire was drowned out by the descriptions of heroes while we were looking at who to play."

Yeah, I should include this in the intro.

"a multiboard or counter for the soul fire might be nice rather than an occasional update."

True, i did consider it, but i had been working on the map for over a week and was quite eager to get it out quickly and try it out myself. - But yes, A counter or that sort of thing would look much better.

"We managed to survive despite that, but it was fairly annoying that they could accelerate the process. Was that intentional?"

Yes, it is the price you pay for killing off the shadow mages - the fire however can fight off any non hero enemy by itself, it cannot be seriously harmed by enemies due to a 98% dmg reduction... it will simply lose strength at an increased rate.

"the random re-spawn chance always seemed to happen when the Conjurer was surrounded by enemies."

The respawn frequency occurs based on the soulfire's remaining health, running around difficult areas is always meant to be risky, especially if alone. Dying at the other end of a dungeon is the biggest punishment you can get - the dungeon is meant to drain your will to go on when you fall, only the determined can progress through it. Returning to your equipment, however still involves skill - it tests your skills at survival and evasion.

"we were quite worried about souls, since we had only slain one of the 4 bosses"

The moment you down the first boss, the game pushes your power up, granting you the ability to move more freely in the dungeon, and giving you the opportunity to face more bosses when you find them. It is the last phase of the game.

Me and my friend, at a certain point we had 0 souls remaining and we weren't ready for a boss - we rushed the shopkeeper for his soul in order to survive and from there on the samurai became somewhat unstoppable.

"After killing the mages, we were set for the game and hoarded the boss souls despite not needing them."

In the current version, free souls only give 1 soul and bosses give 2, I think you were playing a previous version of the game. (I update a lot and should start giving them version numbers)

"Honestly, though I spent a few earlier on stats, they felt WAY more useful as insurance for soul burn"

It is a matter of decision, you choose to play long and safe, on the other hand me and my friend only ever kept 2 souls - the others were a great help with stats, especially in the beginning where that extra 60hp is the difference between life and death vs a caster.

What bugs me however is that the level up deal doesn't seem to be worth the same as the cheese - it will grant you 1 less stat and you get to upgrade a skill... however the next level will require a lot more xp, the level boost shortly seems like it was only useful temporally while the cheese has a more permanent effect....

I'm really not sure how to deal with this, maybe I will add a small gold bonus along with the level, for the 3 souls.

"Once we finally got our act together, had our stuff, and were near max level, we found that, as the Demon and the Conjurer, bosses were just a matter of the Demon having his howl or ultimate up and then the Conjurer throwing the protection shield on the demon"

You did indeed pick a very nice setup for survivability, the best tank and the best defensive support. The arcane barrier has been nerfed slightly in the latest version - still, casting these abilities costs considerable mana to sustain for a long fight, and it still won't block all sources of damage.

I do belive a HARDER difficulty should be made, for players who have beaten the hard mode, and as a bonus, gold rewards will also be bigger - thus giving the opportunity to use more heroes.

" hallways filled with abominations felt more tedious than dangerous."

Oh, haha, you get a chopper there than can carry you - you didn't have to fight a single one of them, though at that point a good setup can handle them just fine............... if they have the time that is.

I did clear the game using the conjurer alone in 2 hours as a challenge, the game is definatly doable if you know what you're doing, (more reason for next difficulty!)

"At level 3, we managed to kill off the Shopkeeper thanks to his grenades. Tee hee."

3??? Lol I never dared that soon.

"The odd movements of the mobs (fleeing when hit sometimes), while sometimes useful for mages to kite, were very awkward."

I will try disabling the movements, at least from the melee enemies. However I should keep them on the ranged units - I'm sure players are more likely to die when kited by ranged units heheh. I'm on the dungeon's side

" they would just run away and accidentally "run" to somewhere through a gateway and never be seen again...etc."

One time 2 abominations walked right past me outa nowhere, and i just ran the hell away - they will often return and beat the crap out of you when they're done with what they're doing. - Honestly, I don't know what they were doing, but I love how it scared me seeing 2 abominations suddenly running my way.

"Lack of incentive to use souls for anything but soul burn, even at level 1."

You are wrong here, you had a really rough start if you didn't spend much souls at the start. You could effectively double your stats early on and suddenly move to the next tier of enemies without getting 1 shot by spells.
It is based on your decision... you want to feel safe, then you'll have to fight without the much needed stats early on.

" it certainly made the final boss fight, which looked very interesting and potentially deadly, quite easy."

You are INTENDED to make rediculously strong setups, it is the only way to survive a boss fight (especially in the latest version) - The next difficulty level will help a lot with this point.

**********************************************************

Well that's all for now, I'll take all these points into consideration, and I'll label this map v1.1 on my next update. I look forward to your comments about your playthroughs

 

[Zaortharain]

I do have a few more points after playing some more...

Guardian's armor boost appears, to me, to do nothing. I wasn't watching closely enough to see if level 1 did anything, but, as far as I can tell, level 2, 3, and 4 either do nothing or are identical to level 1. The shockwave spell, smite, says it has a max of 2 enemies that it can hit. I found that this was an outright lie. I slaughtered many a zergling against a certain someone with this spell. The slow spell was the saving grace for the otherwise poor Guardian late game. Maybe if his armor boost worked, I would feel differently, but it seems like there are just so many other heroes that are much better.

The deathknight is amazing. Period. I soloed with him with ease. With the summons, he has vamp aura 20%...with the normal spells, he has the best damage in the game easily. I went around one shotting gargoyles and under. (I also had a katana, of course, and since I was soloing, I let the shopkeeper live and kept us buff on me at all times.) I was just short of one shotting banshees, but I probably could have gotten different gear and done it. Throw in the bash weapon and stacking attack speed and I was God on wheels. I killed aboms in 4 hits. Perhaps take away the lifesteal aura on the zerglings. That would, of course, make them useless late game, but most summons are poor late game anyway.

My buddy and I finished a samurai/Ninja run, which was interesting. This was the first time I had used the 10% freezing chance sword. Combined with the samurai's great attack speed and claws of haste, and the fact that the Samurai has a 4 second stun...I perma-stunned Necros. Tee hee. The ninja looked interesting and was fairly strong early game but didn't keep up nearly as well to the samurai. Of course, the samurai was pretty weak early game. One thing to note with the bladestorm spell...whirlwind? It dispels spells (Much to my chagrin, this includes the 10 minute buff!). As such, I kept it at level 1 as an anti-banshee tool, essentially. Fairly well rounded character considering that little use. And of course crit is low but always nice. (I noted later that my Deathknight could swing for more with his buffs on than my samurai could crit for!)

Once you get the hang of the game, it's fairly easy to win. I suggested it to a few other friends, but they got bored by about level 4, so before things start getting strong.

 

[clinzin]

I recall testing the armor boost and seeing it work, perhaps not on every rank? It does -not- increase your armor by a flat amount, it increases your armor by a %... say you have 25% increased armor, unless you already have 4, you should get no increase to your armor.
- I should re-test this on every rank to confirm.

The tooltip is in fact misleading, you are right. The true mechanic behind it is, that it can deal a max damage equal to 2 full hits. The zerglings require far less damage to be killed, thus, you were able to kill more of them with the damage of 2 hits.
- I should state the max damage rather than max targets in the tooltip.

I had no idea the Death Knight was so good, I had trouble playing him with the samurai because we were giving the samurai all the power cheese, and using the deathknight as support (in which case, the samurai became godlike due to the lifesteal aura). Do not be mistaken with summons though, they are far from useless, every summon gives an aura of some sort, and the rock elemental can be used as an armored tank.
- all characters are meant to be overpowered in their own way, this is only the first difficulty level, tripling the enemy stats and doubling the loot would solve this issue.

The whirlwind's magic dispel wasn't intended and I can't fix this without replacing the skill with something else, It is a built-in effect for the ability which cannot be turned off. The deathknight should swing for just about the same damage as the samurai crits with max buff rank, but that's allright since the samurai can hit faster, somewhat keeping the balance. Remember, the samurai can keep his crits and speed up for almost no mana, while the death knight needs a reasonable amount of mana to keep lifesteal and the damage buff up.

I'm sad to hear your friends got bored by level 4, it kinda puts me off from working further on the map. I'm kinda busy with some other stuff too at the moment, so I'm going to put the updates on hold for now.

If anyone wishes to play on a higher difficulty, let me know - I'll create a new version with:

1) The note about the soulburn command added to intro.
2) A small gold bonus added to the soul fusion (level up) deal.
3) 300% enemy physical damage
4) 300% enemy magic damage
5) 300% enemy hp
6) twice the gold dropped
7) twice the number of souls dropped
8) more caster units spawn at Necron
9) melee units no longer kite you

PS. Zaortharain, you are an excellent reviewer

 

[Vengeancekael]

The terrain is just awful, random heights on brick terrain tiles? :/
And it's also completely empty and at some spots spammed with random doodads.
The triggering is also quite bad, no memory leaks have been destroyed and a lot of things can be done more efficiently.
As far as spells go, I didn't see any custom spells, just default ones renamed with new effects, make it more unique :S

 

[clinzin]

-terrain isn't my focus.

-memory leaks in triggers? I'm not aware of these, maybe because world editor didn't come with a manual so I had to use my programming experience instead.

Im curious though, what the leaks are.

-Every spell is custom, actually, what you're referring to is spell animations, but I wrote that in my description, I only use blizzard resources, and made them look different by playing around with them.