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Advanced Techtree Contest - Recycle, Revise, Reinvent
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proof of my progress. all normal units and racial mechanics are fully test-able, have yet to finish hero abilities however.
things to do:
things to do:
- hero abilities & summons
- (maybe, if i'm bothered to - don't think it saves much performance) implement dummy recycler
- object data & code for shop items
- implement race selection system
- final balance check & polish
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Current Status: W O R K I N G
- Most baseline unit/building data is complete, sans abilities
- All hero abilities started; none finished
- No item shop
- Two triggers currently
- I'll recycle your dummies!
- Spit-polish forthcoming
No proof of progress. : P
- Most baseline unit/building data is complete, sans abilities
- All hero abilities started; none finished
- No item shop
- Two triggers currently
- I'll recycle your dummies!
- Spit-polish forthcoming
No proof of progress. : P
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excellent work kyrbi0
anyone played my race yet/have anything to say about it?
anyone played my race yet/have anything to say about it?
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Since I'm not competing anymore, mind if I join Kam in judging your entries?
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@GhostThuster I know you said Hero abilities still need to be made but just fyi the Kurenai Sage's Healing Ward spell crashes the game lol. Otherwise it never crossed my mind to use Reveal as a point-target base that costs money. Blizzard should totally make a spell that combines Channel and Charge Gold and Lumber that's able to handle resource costs eventually (that includes Food) but is also subject to tech requirements. Also I see you used Charges Gold and Lumber for the Rangari War Training but do you refund the cost and order the Bastion to force a hotkey on a dummy spell? At a glance the code seems to suggest that 
PS: For some reason the Altar of Fortitude tech requirement didn't register when trying to upgrade my town hall to tier 3. Might wanna investigate.
PS: For some reason the Altar of Fortitude tech requirement didn't register when trying to upgrade my town hall to tier 3. Might wanna investigate.
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@GhostThuster I know you said Hero abilities still need to be made but just fyi the Kurenai Sage's Healing Ward spell crashes the game lol. Otherwise it never crossed my mind to use Reveal as a point-target base that costs money. Blizzard should totally make a spell that combines Channel and Charge Gold and Lumber that's able to handle resource costs eventually (that includes Food) but is also subject to tech requirements. Also I see you used Charges Gold and Lumber for the Rangari War Training but do you refund the cost and order the Bastion to force a hotkey on a dummy spell? At a glance the code seems to suggest that
PS: For some reason the Altar of Fortitude tech requirement didn't register when trying to upgrade my town hall to tier 3. Might wanna investigate.
yep, i spent a few days perfecting that stupid rangari system... my initial plan was to base an ability of 'Sacrifice Acolyte'.
how it works is:
- w/o a Foundry (blacksmith equivalent), a dummy ability shows up (because for some stupid reason, Charge G & L doesn't register tech requirements)
- with a Foundry, a display ability based off Charge G & L shows up. this shows gold/wood cost and can detect hotkey presses
- once the display ability is clicked/cast, another 'action' ability based off Load is added and its hotkey is pressed for the player via code
- once this occurs, a loop continually force-presses ANOTHER hotkey for a click-detector dummy ability to detect whether you've backed out from selecting a target
- this loop turns off once you successfully cast the Load ability, deselect the barracks, or the click-detector detects you've backed out
^all of that stupid shite, to workaround the 'Sacrifice' ability which by all rights blizz shouldve added more data options for. i'm still salty about wasting time on it
yeah i haven't made proper race setup triggers yet, so heroes wont work (and notice the 2 minute reveal even though you have a town hall). i'll be importing one of the systems linked on the op to set up that stuff.
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Ah I see. The only issue I can see with that is if played online, the latency would create a delay between the charge gold and the load click. But otherwise this sounds like an acceptable workaround. Honestly, we need more dummy abilities. Sacrifice is hardcoded to hell so don't expect anything of that.
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I've played around with Sacrifice before, with reasonable success... What were you trying to do that needed that great workaround? (At work)
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Sacrifice will always produce a Shade if I'm not mistaken, so it can only be modified if you alter the actual Shade unit, which, I think we can all agree, is a missed opportunity by Blizzard.
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Yeah, but can't you catch the creation of a Shade & then trigger a replacement, based on some values?
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It doesnt disppay wood and gold cost, either.
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^ this. Assuming you can catch the Shade based on the building type, this restricts training units in this manner strictly for one per building.
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I'm gonna get done what I can get done, since I won't be working tomorrow. 'Surprise' family crisis & general malaise have struck, so I'm OK with Losing Place. : )
//EDIT// - Oh freak I just remembered this is supposed to be on a special, provided map. Criminy I'm dead.
This is just vague enough to leave me cautiously optimistic.Kam said:
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Welp... After several painstaking hours, I have this experimental mess for you folks. Which is fitting, because its:
Lots of fun ideas I enjoy went into this mess, and I did actually polish most of the tooltips & buffs... But not all. Definitely got some model issues (apparently neither the Hobogre or Sludge Tank have Portraits (& Sludge Tank has no Decay animations)), some icon issues (Whirligig & Hobgoblin), among many other things. Tried to avoid using custom resources (aside from models) wherever possible, so expect "creative" icon choices, lol.
It's only nominally done, it's on the wrong map, and it's not even a full half-race... But it's my baby & I love it. Let's go!
Lots of fun ideas I enjoy went into this mess, and I did actually polish most of the tooltips & buffs... But not all. Definitely got some model issues (apparently neither the Hobogre or Sludge Tank have Portraits (& Sludge Tank has no Decay animations)), some icon issues (Whirligig & Hobgoblin), among many other things. Tried to avoid using custom resources (aside from models) wherever possible, so expect "creative" icon choices, lol.
It's only nominally done, it's on the wrong map, and it's not even a full half-race... But it's my baby & I love it. Let's go!
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it's 6am where i am right now. yep. and i still couldn't finish it completely.
things missing:
- proper functionality of the "Crystal Refuge" building
- final polishing, so there's a possibility for typos or incongruent visuals
- a dummyrecycler. hopefully the map doesn't get too laggy
- stress-testing the race's balance. there's probably things that are a tad too weak or tad too powerful
overall though, i'm happy with my race. i set out to make a race that blends in with default wc3, while offering new approaches and a variety of unit synergies, and i think i succeeded.
rough race overview:
they're draenei. some are broken, most aren't. select the orc race at 90% handicap to play as them.
playstyle takes elements from both orc and human. from orc, tough units that emphasise single-unit micro but shitty base defenses/economy. from human, great supportive capabilities (casters are quite strong) but shitty firepower.
notable features:
things missing:
- proper functionality of the "Crystal Refuge" building
- final polishing, so there's a possibility for typos or incongruent visuals
- a dummyrecycler. hopefully the map doesn't get too laggy
- stress-testing the race's balance. there's probably things that are a tad too weak or tad too powerful
overall though, i'm happy with my race. i set out to make a race that blends in with default wc3, while offering new approaches and a variety of unit synergies, and i think i succeeded.
rough race overview:
they're draenei. some are broken, most aren't. select the orc race at 90% handicap to play as them.
playstyle takes elements from both orc and human. from orc, tough units that emphasise single-unit micro but shitty base defenses/economy. from human, great supportive capabilities (casters are quite strong) but shitty firepower.
notable features:
- Naaru fly, repair, and provide food. they can also do a 1-2 switcheroo. use them to scout, and later on, to support your heroes and casters with a researcheable mana regen aura. protect them with Crystal Refuges & Shard Bombs (shop item)
- Arkonite Pillars (shop item) heal buildings as well as units!
- Vindicators are deliberately designed to be highly versatile - this is one tier 1 unit that you won't discard after tier 1! convert them to rangari, combine them with elekks or nether rays, or bundle them with the awesome support of your casters
- Holy trinity of channeling spells - Negation Shield (gives magic immunity to an ally), Soul Bind (cripples a foe), Nether Shift (banishes)
- Aldori Exarch's ultimate is a free Scroll of TP! arguably not as strong as mass teleport, but can be more useful in niche situations
Hosted Project: WME
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I made a thing. It's an entry thing, but it's bad and won't win.
For the sake of myself feeling like I still did something, and am able to be a part of this modding community, I wanted to make it, though.
For anyone who thinks it's not bad, just look at the "Voidspawn Example" map from months ago that I posted in this thread, which shows where I started from -- the point is, I DIDN'T CHANGE ENOUGH and so I believe for the sake of this competition I shouldn't win.
But here's a cool map thing! >Advertises self<
Time to go study for the multiple finals that I have tomorrow. But, at least I got my priorities straight and did the important thing first!
For the sake of myself feeling like I still did something, and am able to be a part of this modding community, I wanted to make it, though.
For anyone who thinks it's not bad, just look at the "Voidspawn Example" map from months ago that I posted in this thread, which shows where I started from -- the point is, I DIDN'T CHANGE ENOUGH and so I believe for the sake of this competition I shouldn't win.
But here's a cool map thing! >Advertises self<
Time to go study for the multiple finals that I have tomorrow. But, at least I got my priorities straight and did the important thing first!
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if you (kam) and the other contestants will allow it, i changed the level requirement of the ability 'Tempest' (previously set to 6, went unnoticed as i tested the hero at level 10 always). (only difference i swear :3) if not, the map at #223 is my final submission.
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Woo! We all have messed up somehow; I'm in good company.
("Stress-testing"? Are you saying I should I have actually played with my race??... What an odd idea. xD)
("Stress-testing"? Are you saying I should I have actually played with my race??... What an odd idea. xD)
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probably pointless, but i had some time to spare (and i'm planning to upload my entry as a map) so i wrote up a race overview
Draenei
Draenei
This race has been in the 'idea' phase of development for the better part of 3 years. Actual editor-work only began from the onset of the advanced techtree contest. Originally, I planned to create 4 updated versions of the races present in one of my oldest maps, Battle for Outland. However, a multitude of factors left this to be a dream that will probably never be fulfilled. More likely than not, this Draenei race will be the last complete piece of Wc3 modding that I'll ever submit.
It sounds absurd, but I spent hours on the theoretical design and balance behind the race - from simple comparisons and calculator work (e.g. how much does it cost in total to reach tier 3?), to brainstorming possible builds against each race. I would have liked more time to playtest and fine-tune the race - after all, the quickest and most surefire way to balance a race is to play it and abuse it as much as possible.
I wanted the race to feel like Blizzard could have made it - uber-polished & unique in identity, with lots of perfectly balanced imbalances. I think I came relatively close to that goal, but I'll let you - the player - decide for yourself.
-GhostThruster
It sounds absurd, but I spent hours on the theoretical design and balance behind the race - from simple comparisons and calculator work (e.g. how much does it cost in total to reach tier 3?), to brainstorming possible builds against each race. I would have liked more time to playtest and fine-tune the race - after all, the quickest and most surefire way to balance a race is to play it and abuse it as much as possible.
I wanted the race to feel like Blizzard could have made it - uber-polished & unique in identity, with lots of perfectly balanced imbalances. I think I came relatively close to that goal, but I'll let you - the player - decide for yourself.
-GhostThruster
After Illidan's failed assault on the Frozen Throne, it gradually became clear to Kael'thas that the demon hunter's promises of grandeur would not hold. It did not take long for desperation and the need to satiate his people's magical addiction to force Kael's hand. Sensing the arcane energies of Tempest Keep, the Elven prince launched a campaign to seize the dimensional fortress for his own people. Yet he unexpectedly met more than his match from its resilient defenders. The Draenei, under the oversight of Velen, deployed their forces to protect the Naaru inhabiting the keep. It was now that the Draenei would reluctantly enter as a major faction in the wars to come. Though few in numbers, centuries of battle with demonkind and an unyielding devotion to the Light has shaped the Draenei into a battle-hardened and formidable force.
Racial identity:
The Draenei are constantly walking the line between Light and Exile - as such, this divide manifests in the composition and abilities of their army. The Draenei can be highly resilient through either survivability or manouevrability, and are great at supporting one another, be it from healing and defense or encumbering enemy forces.
Racial identity:
The Draenei are constantly walking the line between Light and Exile - as such, this divide manifests in the composition and abilities of their army. The Draenei can be highly resilient through either survivability or manouevrability, and are great at supporting one another, be it from healing and defense or encumbering enemy forces.
- Invoke Naaru: the Naaru is a unique flying unit that repairs mechanical units and provides food for your army. The Naaru can be summoned from your Haven. The Naaru can quickly regenerate the mana of nearby friendly spellcasters once the Grace of A'dal upgrade is researched. Draenic Shrines can harbor Naaru inside them for protection.
- Aspects of Light and Exile: the Aspects of Light and Exile unlock extra units and researches from your buildings. The Aspects are free to research from Draenic Shrines, but are limited to only one per Shrine at tier 2. At tier 3, a single Shrine can adopt both Aspects.
- Vindicator versatility: Vindicators can be adapted to many different army compositions. Through Rangari War Training, they can be turned into tough ranged units that can attack air. Vindicators can also ride Elekks and Nether Rays.
- Channeling spells: some Draenei units cast channeling spells that can be very beneficial and powerful if left uninterrupted. Their effects range from granting an allied unit spell immunity, to turning a target unit ethereal.
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
- Most Draenei units are adept at supporting one another, either supplying allies with beneficial buffs or synergising with their combat roles.
- Naaru are versatile food sources that can be used for scouting, army support, and base repairs.
- Draenei units have great sustainability, due to an abundance of aura effects and hit point regeneration bonuses.
- In general, Draenei technology and production buildings are cheaper. This is somewhat offset by the extra costs of building Draenic Shrines to research the Aspects.
Weaknesses:
- Draenei units trade raw firepower for their supportive capabilities. Most of their damage comes from hero spells and a few key units, such as the Elekk Knight and Skyguard.
- Naaru are highly susceptible to anti-air units, and this can easily be exploited by the opponent to block your food supply. Naaru also cannot be trained while you are upgrading your Haven or Freehold.
- Draenei lack a dedicated defensive tower, and rely on an array of base defenses such as Crystal Refuges and Shard Bombs.
- The Aspects of Light and Exile are crucial to your techtree, hence having your Draenic Shrines destroyed could delay your tech significantly.
Attachments
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So you know how gaming development goes through alpha stages? Yeah, this is pre-alpha. WIP DISCLAIMER. PLACEHOLDERS EVERYWHERE. OH NOES.
*Ahem*
What you need to know before going in:
*Ahem*
What you need to know before going in:
- The Undying are massively powerful. If you've played Starcraft II co-op and know about Nova, well that's sorta-ish the idea behind the Undying. Sorta.
- All their shit is expensive to offset the sheer OPness.
- Potentially unbalanced nine ways to Sunday. It's actually Sunday.
- You can only have ONE Undying hero, or up to 3 Tavern heroes. You cannot have 1 Undying hero and 2 Tavern heroes. Undying heroes are far stronger than average heroes. Will likely need to be nerfed.
- Shove Omni-Cubes inside of Essence Collectors (the small Arcane Vault buildings that give food) to gather lumber from nearby trees.
- You train units by letting charges build on the Forge Shrine. Different units cost different amounts of charges. Duh.
- I did not make any new items. The item shop only has vanilla ones. *sob*
- Deadline? What deadline, hahahaha... heh. Ugh.
- I'm very, very tired as I write this.
- 90% of assets in there are temporary.
- Retera made the Celestial Conduit and Aether Orb models when he should be sleeping. Thank you, Retera.
- The actual beam of light from the Celestial Conduit is by Nasrudin.
- I do intend to keep working on this more.
- In the limited playtesting I did, Essence Collectors' lumber beam was bugging out for no discernible reason. That's after I tested it extensively and saw that it worked. Fuck programming.
The Incusor actually costs only 2 charges but my dumbass wrote 3 instead. *inner conflict*
For some unknowable fucking reson, custom missiles just refuse to show up sometimes. Just like that. Just to fuck with my sanity.It should work now. God help me if the Hyperchariot still won't shoot a projectile. [EDIT] Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Shoot me.
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Well, ive had totally forgotten the existence of this thing. Did not work on the map as meanwhile have lost inspiration and motivation to continue development on the idea, sorry.
Here it is in whatever condition.
Here it is in whatever condition.
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I updated my entry btw. Still no items but at least I have a full hero roster now.
EDIT: Major balance updates. Lumber harvesting should work now??? Looks like it's working correctly.
EDIT: Major balance updates. Lumber harvesting should work now??? Looks like it's working correctly.
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Hey so will this contest have a poll section? I was kinda lurking to see when or if it will be up so I could check the races and give my input.
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feel free to give input now anyhow ^^ btw, will we see you return to participating in techtree contests?
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Hmm good point since contest is over people are no longer updating. Sure I'll do it.
And well if I have time I will participate or at the very least I'll nag about peoples techtrees.
And well if I have time I will participate or at the very least I'll nag about peoples techtrees.
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Alright so guess I could start now. My first victim is Kyrbi0 because his Techtree is in campaign style and thus smallest.
Alchemist's Union
Goblin madness! Sadly an unfinished madness and not enough explosions. For a research oriented guild they have surprising lack of researches.
Pros: All basics roles are filled (for Campaign race).
Cons: Custom Race system is not implemented properly as orc peons remain (trigger replaces "peasants"); Gameplay Constants are not touched so Hero can be made as many times as you want, altar doesn't count as altar etc; No stealth detection;
Also a minor point but was annoyed that custom victory condition does not allow me to continue playing after I win.
Special Con: Map uses default patch. It's actually shocking because hero uses Alchemist model yet tavern still has just five original heroes.
Alchemist's Union
Goblin madness! Sadly an unfinished madness and not enough explosions. For a research oriented guild they have surprising lack of researches.
Pros: All basics roles are filled (for Campaign race).
Cons: Custom Race system is not implemented properly as orc peons remain (trigger replaces "peasants"); Gameplay Constants are not touched so Hero can be made as many times as you want, altar doesn't count as altar etc; No stealth detection;
Also a minor point but was annoyed that custom victory condition does not allow me to continue playing after I win.
Special Con: Map uses default patch. It's actually shocking because hero uses Alchemist model yet tavern still has just five original heroes.
- Bio-Reactors feel cool in theory but not in practice. Regular version is an overpriced human Farm while the upgraded version demands a sacrifice to produce standard 10 food. It's a gimmick but not actually useful. The sacrificed unit still exists, which mean it still uses food even after the farm is destroyed.
- Waste Disposal doesn't work. Plague Wards need the undead upgrade to actually effect units. I also would have preferred an automated defense instead of manually activating every building.
- I am unsure but I feel that 5 fortified armor is a bit too much without the need for any upgrade.
- Attack and Armor upgrades are located only in the first tier main building
- Altar building is not tagged as an Altar so no Tavern heroes for you
- Waste Disposal doesn't work. Plague Wards need the undead upgrade to actually effect units. I also would have preferred an automated defense instead of manually activating every building.
- I am unsure but I feel that 5 fortified armor is a bit too much without the need for any upgrade.
- Attack and Armor upgrades are located only in the first tier main building
- Altar building is not tagged as an Altar so no Tavern heroes for you
First Tier
Junkie - Basic worker, nothing special about him.
Science Shed - Primary Unit Building
Concocter - Caster unit. Honestly I am confused why primary troop building produces a caster. I mean this guy is basic caster and I sort of expected a primary unit to be more optimized for combat.
Poultice is basic abolish but a bit weird. It costs only 40 mana and it replenishes 50 mana to the target;
*Poultice isn't actually a potion so the icon is technically wrong.
Brain Brew is a portable friendly Mana Well and you get this at tier 1. I think it basically makes your hero unstoppable;
Trans-Go-Mation doesn't actually work for me. Polimorph/Hex only removes attack but it doesn't add abilities of the morphed unit form. So no Locust or Aura that reduces enemy army attacks. And I would object if the ability worked because enemy couldn't dispel with single target dispel. The attack reduction would have been -2 so it isn't that impressive, which is for the best I suppose because I don't think a caster ability should have army effecting spells. Sure mana cost seems high but you have Brain Brew to fix that;
Experiment's Den - Secondary Unit Building
(it's actually the real primary)
Rad Rat - Fast Melee unit. It's a melee unit with medium armor, something I am allergic to. It has high attack considering the cost is actually not that high. Ability is based of an Item Ability so it ignores the need for research, which makes me wonder why didn't you just made the upgrade itself add +5 attack and use Grace of Elune for the magic reduction part. Of course bigger issue is that this unit shares the role with the next unit. Sure you can argue it is a glass cannon or something but I don't see the point of easy to kill melee units in warcraft 3.
Hobgoblin - It is a grunt without the +100hp upgrade. So you get two rather strong melee units early in the game.
Mutant Ooze - Primary Range unit. Rather cheap unit with decent attack potential. My problem however is that Mitosis splits this unit into two units that are statistically same so you can double your range power. It is a pain to use mitosis because you have to do it per unit. Or you can be like me and just kill this unit because it automatically splits on death.
Whirligig - Air unit. It's Flying Machine without any of the abilities and higher attack but sadly normal so it evens out. Honestly it is useless unit because things that make Flying Machines useful are the air splash attack and ground siege attack. Better use Mutants against air.
Sludge Tank - Long Ranged unit. The high pierce splashing attack is honestly less effective than I expected and with no air attack this unit doesn't conflict with Mutants. Honestly wished that this unit had some sort of effect when it hits enemy units.
But the issue I have is that this unit comes with Tranquility. Yes the range and healing is nerfed but it is still free AoE healing that you can spam every 20 seconds with just one Sludge Tank. And well why stop at having one when you can have five? Ult abilities are not the best things to give to units. Why not a healing spray instead, the thing has sprinkler on it.
Experiment's Den
Hobogre - Melee Siege unit. It's basically tier 3 melee unit with siege attack instead of normal. Of course siege attack in this race is desperately needed so I can't complain. No abilities at all.
Overall: Honestly it feels lacking. Most units don't have any upgrades and rarely have abilities. Air power and anti-air power are lacking most. Race starts very strong with very strong basic units and a caster but the power doesn't grow too much.
Junkie - Basic worker, nothing special about him.
Science Shed - Primary Unit Building
Concocter - Caster unit. Honestly I am confused why primary troop building produces a caster. I mean this guy is basic caster and I sort of expected a primary unit to be more optimized for combat.
Poultice is basic abolish but a bit weird. It costs only 40 mana and it replenishes 50 mana to the target;
*Poultice isn't actually a potion so the icon is technically wrong.
Brain Brew is a portable friendly Mana Well and you get this at tier 1. I think it basically makes your hero unstoppable;
Trans-Go-Mation doesn't actually work for me. Polimorph/Hex only removes attack but it doesn't add abilities of the morphed unit form. So no Locust or Aura that reduces enemy army attacks. And I would object if the ability worked because enemy couldn't dispel with single target dispel. The attack reduction would have been -2 so it isn't that impressive, which is for the best I suppose because I don't think a caster ability should have army effecting spells. Sure mana cost seems high but you have Brain Brew to fix that;
Experiment's Den - Secondary Unit Building
(it's actually the real primary)
Rad Rat - Fast Melee unit. It's a melee unit with medium armor, something I am allergic to. It has high attack considering the cost is actually not that high. Ability is based of an Item Ability so it ignores the need for research, which makes me wonder why didn't you just made the upgrade itself add +5 attack and use Grace of Elune for the magic reduction part. Of course bigger issue is that this unit shares the role with the next unit. Sure you can argue it is a glass cannon or something but I don't see the point of easy to kill melee units in warcraft 3.
Hobgoblin - It is a grunt without the +100hp upgrade. So you get two rather strong melee units early in the game.
Mutant Ooze - Primary Range unit. Rather cheap unit with decent attack potential. My problem however is that Mitosis splits this unit into two units that are statistically same so you can double your range power. It is a pain to use mitosis because you have to do it per unit. Or you can be like me and just kill this unit because it automatically splits on death.
Second Tier
Science ShedWhirligig - Air unit. It's Flying Machine without any of the abilities and higher attack but sadly normal so it evens out. Honestly it is useless unit because things that make Flying Machines useful are the air splash attack and ground siege attack. Better use Mutants against air.
Sludge Tank - Long Ranged unit. The high pierce splashing attack is honestly less effective than I expected and with no air attack this unit doesn't conflict with Mutants. Honestly wished that this unit had some sort of effect when it hits enemy units.
But the issue I have is that this unit comes with Tranquility. Yes the range and healing is nerfed but it is still free AoE healing that you can spam every 20 seconds with just one Sludge Tank. And well why stop at having one when you can have five? Ult abilities are not the best things to give to units. Why not a healing spray instead, the thing has sprinkler on it.
Experiment's Den
Hobogre - Melee Siege unit. It's basically tier 3 melee unit with siege attack instead of normal. Of course siege attack in this race is desperately needed so I can't complain. No abilities at all.
Overall: Honestly it feels lacking. Most units don't have any upgrades and rarely have abilities. Air power and anti-air power are lacking most. Race starts very strong with very strong basic units and a caster but the power doesn't grow too much.
Warbrewer - Intelligence support hero.
I don't think you should have based this unit of a strength because the starting stats and stat growth were optimized for a strength melee hero. The attack is also a bit high I believe for a ranged hero but since this is your only hero this guy needs any advantage it can get.
Fuel Bomb - Ok I didn't use this ability that much. The movement reduction isn't that useful and damage starts way too late. Doesn't even burn buildings. And tooltip doesn't list any stats.
Elixir of Fortitude - I suppose this is fine army boosting ability. I mean armor increase 3,4,5 isn't that big considering Devotion aura does 1.5, 3.0, 4.5 for free. Healing is minimal but welcomed. Same for mana but well you have Brain Brew for mana anyway.
Paralyze Potion - Game changer ability. It is a ranged AoE 4sec stun so you can stun large chunk of army. Heroes don't even get stun reduction. Leveling up only reduces mana cost so you can just keep it at level 1 and it will remain useful. It does seem to have a delay because dummy units aren't fast enough to cast at everyone at same time. Honestly why didn't you just use Tinkers rockets without damage?
Philosopher's Stone - Honestly I don't know what to think of this ability. it is either a temporary Ankh or Resurrection with really long casting time. I think you have to be able to predict the future with this ability
I don't think you should have based this unit of a strength because the starting stats and stat growth were optimized for a strength melee hero. The attack is also a bit high I believe for a ranged hero but since this is your only hero this guy needs any advantage it can get.
Fuel Bomb - Ok I didn't use this ability that much. The movement reduction isn't that useful and damage starts way too late. Doesn't even burn buildings. And tooltip doesn't list any stats.
Elixir of Fortitude - I suppose this is fine army boosting ability. I mean armor increase 3,4,5 isn't that big considering Devotion aura does 1.5, 3.0, 4.5 for free. Healing is minimal but welcomed. Same for mana but well you have Brain Brew for mana anyway.
Paralyze Potion - Game changer ability. It is a ranged AoE 4sec stun so you can stun large chunk of army. Heroes don't even get stun reduction. Leveling up only reduces mana cost so you can just keep it at level 1 and it will remain useful. It does seem to have a delay because dummy units aren't fast enough to cast at everyone at same time. Honestly why didn't you just use Tinkers rockets without damage?
Philosopher's Stone - Honestly I don't know what to think of this ability. it is either a temporary Ankh or Resurrection with really long casting time. I think you have to be able to predict the future with this ability
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I kinda hoped someone would post by now so I wouldn't be triple posting. Anyway will rant now about the next unfinished race and then next week I'll talk about the more completed races. But today Eagle XI is on the chopping block.
Order of Scarlet Flame
I don't know who these guys are but I assume they are the Scarlet Crusade. In all honesty this is edited human techtree with some strange stat changes and requirements.
Also I have noticed that there are edits of the main races and neutral abilities. That used to be not allowed last time I was checking techtree contests.
Pros: Technically all unit roles and abilities are accounted for.
Con: Heroes are unfinished; Too many units; Techtree unfinished (Bad Tooltips, Green Icons, Unfinished features); Too similar to humans.
Something about this race reminds me of Warlords Battlecry humans.
Order of Scarlet Flame
I don't know who these guys are but I assume they are the Scarlet Crusade. In all honesty this is edited human techtree with some strange stat changes and requirements.
Also I have noticed that there are edits of the main races and neutral abilities. That used to be not allowed last time I was checking techtree contests.
Pros: Technically all unit roles and abilities are accounted for.
Con: Heroes are unfinished; Too many units; Techtree unfinished (Bad Tooltips, Green Icons, Unfinished features); Too similar to humans.
- Standard human farms.
- Item shop uses Human items which means you can't get tier 3 items. Only new item is Scorpion Egg at tier 1, which gives unfair creeping advantage since you can buy 2 scorpion for 50 gold. Obviously scorpions are not too strong but they have decent enough attack for a summoned unit, poison attack (no slow) and can burrow to heal. It has melee pierce attack which is odd because all other tier 1 barrack units also have pierce attacks. And for unknown reason light armor.
Keep in mind that undead who also have item to summon units lack early healing item and need a corpse to use their item.
- Call to Arms is the defense system of the race, but for some reason it is activated from barracks instead of town hall. So you need barracks in every expansion base. Call to Arms lasts indefinitely and even though militia unit speed is nerfed you can still kill creeps just fine. I think it is actually better to use militia units instead of barrack units since laborers are just 75g and are the only tier 1 unit with normal attack. The medium armor is annoying but the other melee unit has light armor which is far more worse.
You can return militia back to work but they got bugged and could not build buildings anymore.
- Towers are human towers with no Sentry but are better:
- Of course Improved masonry is present so that fills the building upgrade quota.
- And the last unique thing to mention is building sight upgrade. Personally I think only towers should benefit from this ability but hey first original thing so far.
- Item shop uses Human items which means you can't get tier 3 items. Only new item is Scorpion Egg at tier 1, which gives unfair creeping advantage since you can buy 2 scorpion for 50 gold. Obviously scorpions are not too strong but they have decent enough attack for a summoned unit, poison attack (no slow) and can burrow to heal. It has melee pierce attack which is odd because all other tier 1 barrack units also have pierce attacks. And for unknown reason light armor.
Keep in mind that undead who also have item to summon units lack early healing item and need a corpse to use their item.
- Call to Arms is the defense system of the race, but for some reason it is activated from barracks instead of town hall. So you need barracks in every expansion base. Call to Arms lasts indefinitely and even though militia unit speed is nerfed you can still kill creeps just fine. I think it is actually better to use militia units instead of barrack units since laborers are just 75g and are the only tier 1 unit with normal attack. The medium armor is annoying but the other melee unit has light armor which is far more worse.
You can return militia back to work but they got bugged and could not build buildings anymore.
- Towers are human towers with no Sentry but are better:
- Watch tower is basic scout tower. Bit more expensive and medium armor for some reason.
- Guard tower is basic tower with more hp compared to human but overall same cost.
- Catapult tower comes at tier 2. Less damage but has burning oil and faster missile than cannon tower. Bit cheaper too. Medium armor for some reason?
- Arcane Tower now need tier 2 buildings. Still same abilities except that map reveal needs a building and not an upgrade. Two extra abilities are overcharge which gives more damage and AoE splash even though you have catapult tower for that. And also Mass Dispel. Too bad tower has no mana to use these abilities.
- There is a wall hub ability but it is basically strong as farm. most likely unfinished concept.
- Of course Improved masonry is present so that fills the building upgrade quota.
- And the last unique thing to mention is building sight upgrade. Personally I think only towers should benefit from this ability but hey first original thing so far.
First Tier
Fortified Cloister - Town Hall
Laborer - Worker. Same as human peasant except power-building needs an upgrade. The upgrade does not work because laborer is an orc and you can't power-build non-human construction.
\
*Infantryman - Why would you give a melee unit a medium armor? It makes them vulnerable to melee attacks. Weaker militia but lasts indefinitely.
Training Grounds - Primary Unit Building
Guardsman - Low health, small pierce attack and small type armor that makes it vulnerable to melee and ranged units. It's not worth making even in tier 1. Poor guy doesn't even get attack upgrades. I only like that it has slight range advantage over melee units.
Archer - Rather weak ranged unit. It gets Marksmanship but the lone +3 damage won't make it worth at tier 3. Gets ability Flaming arrows for 10 extra damage against buildings which isn't really that impressive especially when considering that the pierce damage deals only 35% damage anyway
Second Tier
Bastion of Light - Upgraded Town Hall
Abbot - Healer. He literally just heals and nothing else, but can be upgraded to heal 40hp per 5 mana. Saddest part is that his healing role is not unique.
Training Grounds
Catapult - Long Ranged Siege unit. Well it is orc catapult (oil included) but with medium armor for some reason instead of standard heavy.
Chapter House - Secondary Unit Building
Battle Brother - Melee unit. It's the missing proper tier 1 unit and I kinda find 150 gold to be a bit cheap for a unit with captain stats. Defend is of course welcomed.
Medic - Healer unit. To be honest I do not understand why this unit still has Spellbreakers attack and armor type. Has defend though unsure exactly why, since medium armor already reduces pierce damage already.
Flash Heal I find OP to be given to a unit that can be mass produced. Ability is annoying on Paladin alone, but a group of units healing a hero constantly?
Redemption, resurrection of one unit, I guess is fine since it is at tier 3.
Church of Light - Primary Caster Building
Cleric - Support caster. For some reason the range is lower than standard. Missing last ability.
Blessing I don't think is weak enough to be an initial ability. It increases damage by 10% and it heals unit.
Siphon Mana well can't say I am a fan for a unit to have this ability. Easy to abuse it with several clerics either making sure your hero never runs out of mana or to drain enemy hero dry.
Avenger - Light Air unit. Honestly I don't see the point of this unit. Normally light air units are either anti-air or anti-casters and this one is neither. It is basically just flying ranged unit. The ability to spawns eternal spirit units doesn't work for me. I don't know what to think of that ability since at tier 3 I don't think it will be that useful to summon weak summons anyway. And anything stronger would make it op. Oh and medium armor is really unfair on an air unit when in majority of cases only pierce and magic attack can target it.
Has stealth detection.
Library Spire - Secondary Caster Building
Enchantress - Primary caster? For some reason this unit has slightly longer range. Unsure why does she need a shop building since she is the only unit you are supposed to train from this building in tier 2.
Dispel, pretty much regular abolish magic. Made me realize that all other dispels in game need an upgrade because they are very important. Not too problematic, I think.
Conjure Illusion, I think should be tier 3 since illusions can attack. And probably should not be allowed to target hero. And maybe 75 mana is too small.
Righteous Furry, a nerfed Bloodlust. Last for far too short amount of time and only increases attack speed. I presume it does not increase movement because this race has other ways to do that. Honestly I would think about replacing this ability.
Gryphon Mercenary - Heavy Air unit. Actually it is supposed to be tier 3, but you can buy it instantly in tier 2. Needless to say that is unbalanced and honestly odd when all other units are trained normally. Also what's the point of giving it ensnare, that ability would be much more useful at tier 2 like for orcs and undead. This unit can already target other air units anyway.
Third Tier
Chapter House
Cavalier - Heavy Melee unit. Rather standard unit, though weak compared to other equivalents. The upgrade ability Charge I don't think is good idea because it is point to click. For micromanagement sake it is really better to give 3rd tier melee units a passive or instant activation. Not that I found charge that useful anyway since I am unsure if the 25 extra damage even happens. It doesn't happen when spell hits the target at least.
Library Spire
Wizard - Secondary caster? Anyway I don't see the point of yet another caster unit or to have it at 3rd tier. Has pierce attack for some reason.
Lightning bolt I would say is not practical ability for a caster unit. Casters are supposed to use abilities to either help your army or cripple the enemy and not to empower their own regular attacks. That's what non caster units are for, to use their attacks for damage. The only plus I see is the slow factor so it isn't completely out of place.
Water Elemental, yeah not a fan of giving summons to casters. Necromancers are at least limited by the need for corpses and the skeleton limit.
Fireball... ok I see this far too often. It's never a good idea to give storm bolt to units. But you were extra cruel to make the stun last for 5 seconds even against heroes. You made it even more op.
Church of Light
Seraphim - Super Unit. A unit with magic splash damage, Rain of Fire and Fire Shield. Oh also magic immunity because why not? Can be upgraded so it would deal damage on death but why would you want this unit to die? It is also rather cheap for a super unit. Also I don't get why even give this unit a Fire Shield to buff it's allies, how many buffs does one race need? And well why waste mana when you can just cast Rain of Fire.
It is not as broken as far as super units tend to be since it does not receive attack/armor upgrades but really makes me wonder what is the purpose of this unit. And well it is 1300hp unit with magic immunity that takes just 275g 75w and 5f and AoE damage spell. I really do not like this unit.
Overall: Too many units. What is lacking is proper secondary siege unit. I would also like to see a proper anti-air unit and anti-magic unit. And I see no tower countering ability like other races have.
Fortified Cloister - Town Hall
Laborer - Worker. Same as human peasant except power-building needs an upgrade. The upgrade does not work because laborer is an orc and you can't power-build non-human construction.
\
*Infantryman - Why would you give a melee unit a medium armor? It makes them vulnerable to melee attacks. Weaker militia but lasts indefinitely.
Training Grounds - Primary Unit Building
Guardsman - Low health, small pierce attack and small type armor that makes it vulnerable to melee and ranged units. It's not worth making even in tier 1. Poor guy doesn't even get attack upgrades. I only like that it has slight range advantage over melee units.
Archer - Rather weak ranged unit. It gets Marksmanship but the lone +3 damage won't make it worth at tier 3. Gets ability Flaming arrows for 10 extra damage against buildings which isn't really that impressive especially when considering that the pierce damage deals only 35% damage anyway
Second Tier
Bastion of Light - Upgraded Town Hall
Abbot - Healer. He literally just heals and nothing else, but can be upgraded to heal 40hp per 5 mana. Saddest part is that his healing role is not unique.
Training Grounds
Catapult - Long Ranged Siege unit. Well it is orc catapult (oil included) but with medium armor for some reason instead of standard heavy.
Chapter House - Secondary Unit Building
Battle Brother - Melee unit. It's the missing proper tier 1 unit and I kinda find 150 gold to be a bit cheap for a unit with captain stats. Defend is of course welcomed.
Medic - Healer unit. To be honest I do not understand why this unit still has Spellbreakers attack and armor type. Has defend though unsure exactly why, since medium armor already reduces pierce damage already.
Flash Heal I find OP to be given to a unit that can be mass produced. Ability is annoying on Paladin alone, but a group of units healing a hero constantly?
Redemption, resurrection of one unit, I guess is fine since it is at tier 3.
Church of Light - Primary Caster Building
Cleric - Support caster. For some reason the range is lower than standard. Missing last ability.
Blessing I don't think is weak enough to be an initial ability. It increases damage by 10% and it heals unit.
Siphon Mana well can't say I am a fan for a unit to have this ability. Easy to abuse it with several clerics either making sure your hero never runs out of mana or to drain enemy hero dry.
Avenger - Light Air unit. Honestly I don't see the point of this unit. Normally light air units are either anti-air or anti-casters and this one is neither. It is basically just flying ranged unit. The ability to spawns eternal spirit units doesn't work for me. I don't know what to think of that ability since at tier 3 I don't think it will be that useful to summon weak summons anyway. And anything stronger would make it op. Oh and medium armor is really unfair on an air unit when in majority of cases only pierce and magic attack can target it.
Has stealth detection.
Library Spire - Secondary Caster Building
Enchantress - Primary caster? For some reason this unit has slightly longer range. Unsure why does she need a shop building since she is the only unit you are supposed to train from this building in tier 2.
Dispel, pretty much regular abolish magic. Made me realize that all other dispels in game need an upgrade because they are very important. Not too problematic, I think.
Conjure Illusion, I think should be tier 3 since illusions can attack. And probably should not be allowed to target hero. And maybe 75 mana is too small.
Righteous Furry, a nerfed Bloodlust. Last for far too short amount of time and only increases attack speed. I presume it does not increase movement because this race has other ways to do that. Honestly I would think about replacing this ability.
Gryphon Mercenary - Heavy Air unit. Actually it is supposed to be tier 3, but you can buy it instantly in tier 2. Needless to say that is unbalanced and honestly odd when all other units are trained normally. Also what's the point of giving it ensnare, that ability would be much more useful at tier 2 like for orcs and undead. This unit can already target other air units anyway.
Third Tier
Chapter House
Cavalier - Heavy Melee unit. Rather standard unit, though weak compared to other equivalents. The upgrade ability Charge I don't think is good idea because it is point to click. For micromanagement sake it is really better to give 3rd tier melee units a passive or instant activation. Not that I found charge that useful anyway since I am unsure if the 25 extra damage even happens. It doesn't happen when spell hits the target at least.
Library Spire
Wizard - Secondary caster? Anyway I don't see the point of yet another caster unit or to have it at 3rd tier. Has pierce attack for some reason.
Lightning bolt I would say is not practical ability for a caster unit. Casters are supposed to use abilities to either help your army or cripple the enemy and not to empower their own regular attacks. That's what non caster units are for, to use their attacks for damage. The only plus I see is the slow factor so it isn't completely out of place.
Water Elemental, yeah not a fan of giving summons to casters. Necromancers are at least limited by the need for corpses and the skeleton limit.
Fireball... ok I see this far too often. It's never a good idea to give storm bolt to units. But you were extra cruel to make the stun last for 5 seconds even against heroes. You made it even more op.
Church of Light
Seraphim - Super Unit. A unit with magic splash damage, Rain of Fire and Fire Shield. Oh also magic immunity because why not? Can be upgraded so it would deal damage on death but why would you want this unit to die? It is also rather cheap for a super unit. Also I don't get why even give this unit a Fire Shield to buff it's allies, how many buffs does one race need? And well why waste mana when you can just cast Rain of Fire.
It is not as broken as far as super units tend to be since it does not receive attack/armor upgrades but really makes me wonder what is the purpose of this unit. And well it is 1300hp unit with magic immunity that takes just 275g 75w and 5f and AoE damage spell. I really do not like this unit.
Overall: Too many units. What is lacking is proper secondary siege unit. I would also like to see a proper anti-air unit and anti-magic unit. And I see no tower countering ability like other races have.
Heroes are unfinished for the most part and I have counted only heroes that I could train in altar. Almost tempted to say that they feel more like RPG heroes than RTS.
Assassin - Melee Agility hero. Think it is a bit too much to have both Hide and Poison as initial ability.
Crusader - Strength hero. Missing one ability.
Inquisitor - Strength hero. Has initial Bash which I will say already is bad idea.
Arch Bishop - Intelligence and the only ranged hero. Lacks an ability to regain mana or a passive instead of so many active abilities.
Assassin - Melee Agility hero. Think it is a bit too much to have both Hide and Poison as initial ability.
- Sap I don't like. It's a melee ranged Sleep which is really unnecessary handicap. To use it you must use it with Blink. I don't think Sleep really fits an agility hero.
- Blink is Blink. It fits agility doctrine of being a survival/hunt skill.
- Roundstrike I suppose is fine idea. It is broken at level 3 because chance is 35% instead of advertised 15% and 60 damage is not small amount. The similar ability, Cleaving Attack, intentionally deals damage lesser than base damage. Also wouldn't this ability clash with Sap by accidentally hitting Sapped unit?
- Poison Mastery I am honestly unsure what to think of.
Crusader - Strength hero. Missing one ability.
- Shockwave is standard.
- N/A
- Seal of the Crusade I am unsure if it works properly. It only effects hero as far as I saw.
- Battle Joust I think is underwhelming. It basically is speed increase that you have to micromanage and like with charge I am unsure if it actually adds the extra damage.
Inquisitor - Strength hero. Has initial Bash which I will say already is bad idea.
- Exorcism is well Poison Dagger, which I am not that excited to see it on strength hero but it isn't wrong.
- N/A
- Retribution Aura is Thorns Aura. I agree that it fits more on strength hero than on intelligence hero but it still one of the most unimpressive auras in the game.
- Hammer of God is situational. It is level 2 Holy Light for healing (400hp) but is completely unfair against undead because 800 damage is too much. You can cripple an undead hero or even kill the Lich in one hit.
Arch Bishop - Intelligence and the only ranged hero. Lacks an ability to regain mana or a passive instead of so many active abilities.
- Mass Heal I am unsure because on one hand the heal is rather low but on the other hand it effects large amount of units. Amount healed is lower than on tooltip.
- Banish is Banish.
- Power Shield is situational since it lasts for only 7 seconds.
- Guardian Angel isn't implemented yet. It would be yet another healing ability. I don't think this hero lacks healing abilities. Or this race either.
Something about this race reminds me of Warlords Battlecry humans.
- Joined
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I'm working on getting to it this weekend. =)
In the meantime please create a post for your races here:
Advanced Tech-Tree Development
In the meantime please create a post for your races here:
Advanced Tech-Tree Development
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,091
Hey uuhhh GhostThruster, your shit looks bad, mate.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2008
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- 14,361
Guess I should speed things up. Though I'll probably not finish before Kam does. Or should that be hopefully Kam will finish before I do? Anyway going with the more completed races and have decided to go with Spellbound because he is usually very creative when it comes to mechanical features.
Undying
I have no idea who these guys are but they sure are interesting. As expected there are custom harvesting features and custom training features. The annoying part is how broken the map is, it's almost unplayable. And I am not even talking about undying being OP as I couldn't tell. There was global bug that made all melee damage non existent while ranged damage sometimes worked. The customs systems also are bugged. Because of this there is great chance that I am wrong about many things.
(Honestly thinking of scrapping the pros and cons thing...)
PROS: All basic unit roles are covered. Custom mechanics.
CONS: Bugs, Single Hero system is not equal to just getting 3 tavern heroes.
It's Spellbound techtree so as expected I liked the mechanics in theory but was not that satisfied with actual unit and hero designs. I guess it is still in progress as there aren't even custom icons yet.
Undying
I have no idea who these guys are but they sure are interesting. As expected there are custom harvesting features and custom training features. The annoying part is how broken the map is, it's almost unplayable. And I am not even talking about undying being OP as I couldn't tell. There was global bug that made all melee damage non existent while ranged damage sometimes worked. The customs systems also are bugged. Because of this there is great chance that I am wrong about many things.
(Honestly thinking of scrapping the pros and cons thing...)
PROS: All basic unit roles are covered. Custom mechanics.
CONS: Bugs, Single Hero system is not equal to just getting 3 tavern heroes.
- Essence collector is both food production building and wood harvester. Can be upgraded individually to provide extra 10 food without any wait time. And yes they do bug when they harvest lumber sometimes.
- Obelisk costs just 30g 20w and is rather strong as it deals line damage. With specific hero it also gets ability to change location and ability, which can be improved, to reduce incoming damage. For some reason the armor is light so it is really not durable.
- No base defense system aside towers as far as I see.
- Shop does have new items despite what Spellbound said. Almost missed them. Anyway there is Restoration Node that acts like Healing Wands but makes you extra vulnerable to enemy damage.
- Custom training is a nice gimmick with benefit of making it harder to train your strong units in large quantities which is annoying since you can just cue units and instead you must wait till the stars are right. It is also very buggy as extra unit building has a chance of not working and if you cancel unit it will also screw the system.
- The building armor upgrade is the standard human upgrade which is nice to have but wished it was something original.
- Should Solar Anvil really cost no lumber when you don't use workers to harvest wood in traditional way? Feels to cheap at the moment.
- Obelisk costs just 30g 20w and is rather strong as it deals line damage. With specific hero it also gets ability to change location and ability, which can be improved, to reduce incoming damage. For some reason the armor is light so it is really not durable.
- No base defense system aside towers as far as I see.
- Shop does have new items despite what Spellbound said. Almost missed them. Anyway there is Restoration Node that acts like Healing Wands but makes you extra vulnerable to enemy damage.
- Custom training is a nice gimmick with benefit of making it harder to train your strong units in large quantities which is annoying since you can just cue units and instead you must wait till the stars are right. It is also very buggy as extra unit building has a chance of not working and if you cancel unit it will also screw the system.
- The building armor upgrade is the standard human upgrade which is nice to have but wished it was something original.
- Should Solar Anvil really cost no lumber when you don't use workers to harvest wood in traditional way? Feels to cheap at the moment.
First Tier
*All units, except worker, come from single building or are advanced upgrades.
*Custom training gimmick is interesting but bugs far too often for me to count it as a good thing.
*All units are mechanical so they have partial magic immunity to some spells like Impale for example.
Omni-Cube - Worker. Pretty basic worker. Can self-destruct to gain 40 wood which I don't find that useful. Also bit annoyed that it dies on construction but still costs full 75 gold instead of having a discount like wisp. Can repair all units.
Raycaster - Basic Ranged Unit. It's very good unit and costs only gold. This form doesn't get any upgrades. One of few units to be capable at dealing damage but isn't consistent.
Warpstriker - Melee Unit. Honestly I find this unit's stats too strong for first tier and blink doesn't even need an upgrade. It is strong as a third tier unit but is even more expensive which isn't as problematic as one would think since it still costs just 3 food. But I wasn't able to do damage at all with this unit.
Flux Weaver - Light Air Support Unit. It shouldn't be in first tier. Statistically it is inferior unit to the Raycaster but it provides chain dispel without an upgrade, has True Sight and can heal with Sanctuary Line. At least I assume as the ability never actually healed my units so they were just being dragged and locked. Wouldn't really expect this unit to cost 4 food. Wasn't successful at making it deal damage.
Second Tier
Preserver - Support caster, focuses on preservation of units. Costs more than you would expect 150g 80w 3f without being that different from the regular casters except that it has only two abilities. Doesn't use caster upgrade system so you can only upgrade mana pool with specific upgrade once and can't upgrade mana reg at all (which is better compared to not upgraded casters).
Kinetic bubble I guess is situational. It is extra 120hp that decays every 5 sec.
Reconstruction needs specific upgrade but is basiclly heal ability that heals 5hp per 1mana for ever 0.2sec. Doesn't work on organics so you can't heal your heroes or allies.
Incursor - Light Air Siege Unit. Well it is very effective at destroying enemy buildings. The cost is 200g 150w 3f which is a bit problematic because of wood harvesting but you can still mass this unit. It isn't that hard to spam I guess and the third tier Anti-Air rocket upgrades basically make this unit flying siege engine. Though it really should have standard light armor instead of heavy. Of course I wasn't able to deal damage most of the time.
It also has True Sight which I think is redundant.
(upgraded Warpstriker)
Arcblade - Advanced Melee Unit. It's even stronger unit but without Warp ability. It gains mana by hitting and with upgrade in third tier it gains ability to use gathered mana as hp. It only costs extra 50 gold to upgrade. Never managed to make this unit deal damage.
(upgraded Raycaster)
Sunlance - Advanced Ranged Unit. It increases damage and range by large amount at the expense of attack speed. At third tier gets a passive ability that doubles the damage if unit has more than 350 damage which I consider an overkill. Takes 5 food though so they you can't spam them.
(upgraded Preserver)
Living Manifold - Advanced Caster that supports your units in a larger scale. No caster upgrade system so abilities are upgraded by your choice and only one mana upgrade. Honestly feels overpriced at 300g 200w 4f.
Harmonic sphere is initial ability and is probably the best. It speeds up your units in a certain radius and gives them ability to evade attacks.
Overclock is like Unholy Frenzy but it increases the attack by 50% and it only harms 2% per attack. No reason not to use it really.
Target Lock reduces armor of target, gives sight of the unit always and makes all other units effected by Harmonic Sphere to deal more damage to the target.
Third Tier
Purifier - Long Ranged Siege Unit. About time to get a ground siege unit. Has a strange way of attacking where it focuses flare until burning ray from the sky scorches the target. It's too effective at demolishing buildings. The funny part is that once you get this unit, every other unit in game also starts casting the burning ray attack along with their usual attack.
Hyperchariot - Ultimate Air Unit. Very expensive at 700g 450w 10f. It has magical attack which bounces and can be upgraded to attack several targets at same time. And yes all 3 attacks bounce around. This unit kills armies as long as you support it with your army. It is hard to spam because of the custom recruit system but you don't really need too many of them to annihilate enemy. Also the model is just a Wisp with attachments which I feel is really underwhelming.
Overall: The race is overpowered and the cost doesn't really fix that issue. Because of damage bug I was not able to really get a proper feeling. If something is missing it would be dedicated anti-caster unit and there should have been more auto-cast buffs/debuffs. A crowd control spell would have be nice too and also anti-tower/building ability. Wouldn't mind a more practical anti-air unit besides the Anti-Air spam rockets
*All units, except worker, come from single building or are advanced upgrades.
*Custom training gimmick is interesting but bugs far too often for me to count it as a good thing.
*All units are mechanical so they have partial magic immunity to some spells like Impale for example.
Omni-Cube - Worker. Pretty basic worker. Can self-destruct to gain 40 wood which I don't find that useful. Also bit annoyed that it dies on construction but still costs full 75 gold instead of having a discount like wisp. Can repair all units.
Raycaster - Basic Ranged Unit. It's very good unit and costs only gold. This form doesn't get any upgrades. One of few units to be capable at dealing damage but isn't consistent.
Warpstriker - Melee Unit. Honestly I find this unit's stats too strong for first tier and blink doesn't even need an upgrade. It is strong as a third tier unit but is even more expensive which isn't as problematic as one would think since it still costs just 3 food. But I wasn't able to do damage at all with this unit.
Flux Weaver - Light Air Support Unit. It shouldn't be in first tier. Statistically it is inferior unit to the Raycaster but it provides chain dispel without an upgrade, has True Sight and can heal with Sanctuary Line. At least I assume as the ability never actually healed my units so they were just being dragged and locked. Wouldn't really expect this unit to cost 4 food. Wasn't successful at making it deal damage.
Second Tier
Preserver - Support caster, focuses on preservation of units. Costs more than you would expect 150g 80w 3f without being that different from the regular casters except that it has only two abilities. Doesn't use caster upgrade system so you can only upgrade mana pool with specific upgrade once and can't upgrade mana reg at all (which is better compared to not upgraded casters).
Kinetic bubble I guess is situational. It is extra 120hp that decays every 5 sec.
Reconstruction needs specific upgrade but is basiclly heal ability that heals 5hp per 1mana for ever 0.2sec. Doesn't work on organics so you can't heal your heroes or allies.
Incursor - Light Air Siege Unit. Well it is very effective at destroying enemy buildings. The cost is 200g 150w 3f which is a bit problematic because of wood harvesting but you can still mass this unit. It isn't that hard to spam I guess and the third tier Anti-Air rocket upgrades basically make this unit flying siege engine. Though it really should have standard light armor instead of heavy. Of course I wasn't able to deal damage most of the time.
It also has True Sight which I think is redundant.
(upgraded Warpstriker)
Arcblade - Advanced Melee Unit. It's even stronger unit but without Warp ability. It gains mana by hitting and with upgrade in third tier it gains ability to use gathered mana as hp. It only costs extra 50 gold to upgrade. Never managed to make this unit deal damage.
(upgraded Raycaster)
Sunlance - Advanced Ranged Unit. It increases damage and range by large amount at the expense of attack speed. At third tier gets a passive ability that doubles the damage if unit has more than 350 damage which I consider an overkill. Takes 5 food though so they you can't spam them.
(upgraded Preserver)
Living Manifold - Advanced Caster that supports your units in a larger scale. No caster upgrade system so abilities are upgraded by your choice and only one mana upgrade. Honestly feels overpriced at 300g 200w 4f.
Harmonic sphere is initial ability and is probably the best. It speeds up your units in a certain radius and gives them ability to evade attacks.
Overclock is like Unholy Frenzy but it increases the attack by 50% and it only harms 2% per attack. No reason not to use it really.
Target Lock reduces armor of target, gives sight of the unit always and makes all other units effected by Harmonic Sphere to deal more damage to the target.
Third Tier
Purifier - Long Ranged Siege Unit. About time to get a ground siege unit. Has a strange way of attacking where it focuses flare until burning ray from the sky scorches the target. It's too effective at demolishing buildings. The funny part is that once you get this unit, every other unit in game also starts casting the burning ray attack along with their usual attack.
Hyperchariot - Ultimate Air Unit. Very expensive at 700g 450w 10f. It has magical attack which bounces and can be upgraded to attack several targets at same time. And yes all 3 attacks bounce around. This unit kills armies as long as you support it with your army. It is hard to spam because of the custom recruit system but you don't really need too many of them to annihilate enemy. Also the model is just a Wisp with attachments which I feel is really underwhelming.
Overall: The race is overpowered and the cost doesn't really fix that issue. Because of damage bug I was not able to really get a proper feeling. If something is missing it would be dedicated anti-caster unit and there should have been more auto-cast buffs/debuffs. A crowd control spell would have be nice too and also anti-tower/building ability. Wouldn't mind a more practical anti-air unit besides the Anti-Air spam rockets
I'll be honest, the heroes do not seem at all that strong to justify having only one instead of three. It is really much better to have 3 tavern heroes with wide selection of abilities and tactics than just one overspecialized hero with better stats.
Also only one hero actually has finished tooltip.
Avatar of Flow - Intelligence hero. Stuck in your base so it can't pick up tomes and items which is already a disadvantage. Must mark a unit so she would cast her abilities from its location.
Avatar of Conquest - Strength hero and effected by what ever prevents my units from dealing damage. Initial skill is passively healing units around the hero. Actually feels more like intelligence hero to me with the present skills.
Avatar of Wisdom - Intelligence hero that feels like an agility hero since it focuses on maximizing damage on single target. He really is not flexible hero and is unfairly good at killing other heroes at higher level. He also heals himself based on damage he causes with his spells.
Also only one hero actually has finished tooltip.
Avatar of Flow - Intelligence hero. Stuck in your base so it can't pick up tomes and items which is already a disadvantage. Must mark a unit so she would cast her abilities from its location.
- Shining Flame, basic multi target damage ability. At least I think since it doesn't always cast and seems to target randomly.
- Lux Magna is clever idea of healing your units and stunning enemy. Except you don't see the AoE circle and I am unsure if Heroes are stunned for shorter time.
- Echo Shield is interesting preserving ability but again I have no idea how many units actually effects. Full damage return might be an overkill though, especially if that counts spell damage too.
- Epiphany makes hero become an actual Warcraft 3 hero for a short time. She and the appointed caster both cast abilities at same time.
Avatar of Conquest - Strength hero and effected by what ever prevents my units from dealing damage. Initial skill is passively healing units around the hero. Actually feels more like intelligence hero to me with the present skills.
- Invasion Shroud gives enemies miss % if they stand in it. Seems good enough to me.
- Tower of Triumph is basically immobile Water Element.
- Warpath makes units attack and move faster as long as it is activated and you have mana to use. Guess my complaint is that you already have speed increasing units.
- Calamitous Brilliance is an ability that massively damages everything in wide area around the hero for certain amount of time. Basically Starfall but with explosions dealing more damage and targeting ground instead of units.
Avatar of Wisdom - Intelligence hero that feels like an agility hero since it focuses on maximizing damage on single target. He really is not flexible hero and is unfairly good at killing other heroes at higher level. He also heals himself based on damage he causes with his spells.
- Sunburst deals 20/30/40 damage per 2secs for 10sec with extra damage every time target attacks. So it can deal a lot of damage on a single target. Also I am not completely sure but think it deals damage when hero is ordered to attack so AI hero Warden was eaten alive. Probably need more testing.
- Radiant Stride makes Hero move through units in straight line and damages them. Honestly I don't see why would you give this to an intelligent hero who tend to be most fragile. You shouldn't want to charge in the middle of the enemy units and using it only as escape mechanism is an overkill.
- Aether Sickness is another single target ability that damages over time but it also reduce attacker damage while making target attack faster. It costs just 50 mana but can deal a lot of damage, especially on non hero units. 10/20/30damage per 1sec for 10sec (heroes) / 30sec (units).
- Familiar is basically permanent unstoppable unit you get for free which enemy can't do literally anything about. Also it uses magic damage, there is no such thing as magical pierce damage unless there is some custom code that makes attack ignore armor or something.
It's Spellbound techtree so as expected I liked the mechanics in theory but was not that satisfied with actual unit and hero designs. I guess it is still in progress as there aren't even custom icons yet.
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@VeljkoM Thank you for that review. I am thoroughly confused as to why melee units can't deal damage - they were inflicting damage in the millions of tests I did I'm pulling my submission from this entry - I don't want to submit something so broken.
I have to ask, though, were you testing a map that was downloaded earlier? I've been updating it since so that things like the cost of the Obelisk is actually much higher. Don't think it'd make much of a difference, but still.
@Kam I don't mind if you review the map, but please just leave it out as some 'honourable mention' type of thing. Otherwise, please ignore. This thing is way too broken.
I'm pulling my submission from this entry - I don't want to submit something so broken.I have to ask, though, were you testing a map that was downloaded earlier? I've been updating it since so that things like the cost of the Obelisk is actually much higher. Don't think it'd make much of a difference, but still.
@Kam I don't mind if you review the map, but please just leave it out as some 'honourable mention' type of thing. Otherwise, please ignore. This thing is way too broken.
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@Spellbound
It could be something on my end unless someone else can confirm the bug. Anyway I used the map provided on this thread that you posted on 21st May. Because as far as I understood the deadline was over and you weren't supposed to keep working on it. Anyway point me to the latest one so I could see it too. Perhaps it will work properly for me then.
It could be something on my end unless someone else can confirm the bug. Anyway I used the map provided on this thread that you posted on 21st May. Because as far as I understood the deadline was over and you weren't supposed to keep working on it. Anyway point me to the latest one so I could see it too. Perhaps it will work properly for me then.
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Mines pretty broke too, friendo.@VeljkoM Thank you for that review. I am thoroughly confused as to why melee units can't deal damage - they were inflicting damage in the millions of tests I did
I have to ask, though, were you testing a map that was downloaded earlier? I've been updating it since so that things like the cost of the Obelisk is actually much higher. Don't think it'd make much of a difference, but still.
@Kam I don't mind if you review the map, but please just leave it out as some 'honourable mention' type of thing. Otherwise, please ignore. This thing is way too broken.
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*hotel california*
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@Spellbound just tested, melee units don't deal damage... and then they did. i have no idea what code you've used but something is really
since we're all about spellbound's entry now, i'll offer my thoughts on it. since the entry was basically an idea/design "pitch", and not nearly finished enough in terms of object data/code, i will ignore the bugs and (most) numerical imbalances and primarily critique the ideas/designs.
VeljkoM's review already covers the numbers-stuff pretty well.
General:
since we're all about spellbound's entry now, i'll offer my thoughts on it. since the entry was basically an idea/design "pitch", and not nearly finished enough in terms of object data/code, i will ignore the bugs and (most) numerical imbalances and primarily critique the ideas/designs.
VeljkoM's review already covers the numbers-stuff pretty well.
General:
- As usual, very creative approach to things. If not universally new ideas, many of the mechanics are at least very new to Wc3/RTS.
- However, it feels like a mish-mash of novel ideas rather than a complete package - there didn't seem to be any unifying theme(s), apart from "high-tech". Undoubtedly, the lack of proper models hampered this. But you could explore certain mechanics so much more.
- Some "changes" felt like they were implemented to "appear" unique, rather than actually be unique and/or emphasise the race's theme(s). This ties in to the above point (2), as some mechanics just needed more synergy to justify their existence.
- Heroes, to me, exemplify general critique (3). Does allowing 1 hero to be trained underline the race's theme (e.g. I could see this working for a zerg-like race, where the hero is a Hive Mind)? What meaningful gameplay change occurs? I'd say, apart from the Avatar of Flow, you're basically playing the same as a player that can access 3 heroes - except that player has more strategic options and you have more of a tough time balancing the mechanic. And I know I said I wouldn't focus on numbers, but goddamn these heroes need major rebalancing.
- I think the stationary Avatar of Flow has potential to be cool, tho she needs some way to easily access items from creeps/shops etc. You could probably just have her be flying above her Exarch, or be "chained" to it (like Sanctuary Line).
- Upgradeable T1 units isn't really new, but it's cool to see. Keep in mind you need to balance for the bonus power you get from avoiding a training cooldown. For instance, Destroyers are much weaker (HP and damage-wise) than what their food cost suggests.
- Mechanical units are a terrible idea in terms of balance, since they're immune to so many spells. To make it work, you'd have to incorporate compensating weaknesses. For instance, lowering their HP or making their strength very niche (how it's done in melee wc3), or even make them use up mana as a fuel to attack/move around.
- The prevalance of mechanical units had way more potential as a mechanic - an example of (3). You only had 1 ability that targeted mechanical units: a glorified repair.
- Credit where credit is due, Kinetic Bubble & Sanctuary Line are very cool abilities. Would like to have seen more offensive abilities, though - the race desperately needs disable spells (e.g. Ensnare, Slow, Dryad Poison etc.)
- The Arcblade's abilities essentially amount to a unit with life steal. A passive mana shield is a cool idea - if there was actually any interaction with his mana, other than just him attacking - see general critique (2). If you gave Preservers something like Siphon Mana, for instance, we could see a lot more depth to the unit. There's no meaningful way in which the player actually interacts with the Arcblade's passives, and as such right now it's an example of (3).
- There didn't see like much rhyme or reason to the units (maybe a problem with models). Like why does the race have Ray Shooterthings (I assume light-based) and Warpstalkers (dark/void-themed)? Why does a Warpstalker upgrade into an "Arcblade", whatever that means? I mean I guess they're all robots or something. It sounds like I'm making a big deal out of minor aesthetic details, but the cohesion and understandability of a race (which by definition should have some clear, identifiable commonalities) goes a long way in allowing players to have fun with it. Imagine if, when Blizzard was designing the Night Elf race, they added Archers & Ancients (cool, amazonian bow ladies & spirit trees, makes sense) plus Fire Sprites (okay they burn down trees, but they're still kinda natural & spirit-y) plus Toad Sharpshooters (sure toads live in forests... but WHO gave them snipers, and WHY are they allied with night elves?) that upgrade to Tortoise Samurai (THEY'RE NOT EVEN THE SAME F****** SPECIES) - that's the dissonance I get when going through your units.
- I liked the lumber harvesting mechanic - elucidates how high-tech the race is, and simultaneously protects workers. I liked the floating haunted gold mine too, but not as much - after all, it's just a haunted gold mine (that floats).
- However, the race is too impervious to base harass. Some of this can be fixed up by adjusting the HP/armour-type of one or two buildings, but Omni-Cubes are guaranteed to either be able to safely hide in an Essence Collector - or if they are caught, last-second Deconstruct and earn a flat 40-lumber bonus while denying experience to enemies.
- The training mechanic (Charges) is good looking, and somewhat novel. But it's an instance of (3). It's like giving Orcs the zerg larvae mechanic - not only is there seemingly no lore/"cultural" justification, I can't say it adds much depth to how the race plays. Perhaps appropriate models would've stressed that the race is supposed to involve souls or whatever it is.
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By the way not just melee units. Ranged units are also sometimes effected. And it also goes for the enemy AI and not just race units. I think it could be whatever coding is used for Purifier. I mean purifier does not use it's own attack so you must have disabled it somehow so it would damage through focused light instead. And since once Purifier is made almost all units gain that same ability to focus light.
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