Test of Faith v2.01e

[FeelsGoodMan]

All your screenshots are broken.

 

[MStylo]

That is weird. It is working for me even if I logout on Chrome. Although I opened it at Microsoft Edge and it doesn't load. Can you see other people images? Anyone else can't see them?

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

That is weird. It is working for me even if I logout on Chrome. Although I opened it at Microsoft Edge and it doesn't load. Can you see other people images? Anyone else can't see them?

I can se other people's screenshots, yeah. Try force refreshing your browser. Your local cache might still make you see the pictures even if they're not there.

Spoiler

 

[MStylo]

Resolved, thanks for letting me know.

 

[deepstrasz]

Forcing players to use a command to manipulate the gameplay like the elimination of air units when the players can't fight them anymore is a bad game design. You should create the waves accordingly, depending on the strength and units the players have beforehand. If a player loses to such an attack but had the capability to win against it, then it's the player's fault.

The map doesn't show in the game at all on 1.31.1. What version have you saved it with? Actually, it might be because you've protected it. You should find a different way of doing it. If you're using Vexorian's Optimizer, do some tests, tick and untick some fields and see if 1.31.1 sees it ingame.

Awaiting Update.

---

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If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
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[MStylo]

Updated, issues fixed.

 

[deepstrasz]

This is not altered melee (please remove this tag). It's Strategy/Risk and Defense/Survival, more of the latter.

1. No player colour change?
2. Could work better with more players too.
3. "Our allied town is under siege!" spam.
4. Does food supply count? I mean I could choose a Grunt when having 22/24. Or, if you don't have enough supply, you don't get to choose a unit next round/day?
   
5. Curious, did you make use of all game's units, except heroes of course?
6. Enemy units don't come together so you can easily smash the weaker ones first or the stronger ones depending on the case.
7. Usually you choose units because upgrades are so random that you might not even have or get that unit until the "end".
8. Razormane Medicine man and Spirit Walker.

Enjoyable and creative although it could use more content, gameplay mechanics and stuff as well as a multiplayer mode.

Approved.

(previous comments: Test of Faith v1.02)

---

All your screenshots are broken.

Spoiler: too late

 

[MStylo]

1. I wanted to give it more of an adventure feel to it so I chose purple for the player and violet to the allied units and obelisk which you are defending. This way it's clean to recognize who is who.

2. Was playing with the idea of multiplayer. I may consider making it for two players.

3. Wasn't happening to me so much it would bother me and it was a good notification for player that the enemy reached middle.

4. I left that option to freely go over supply cap because otherwise let's say you have 3 supply left and after wave 7 it wants to offer you gryphon and destroyer. Both require over 3 food so you would have to be given an option of supply instead. It would be unnecessarily punishing and frustrating. Only when you have no spare food, your units options are replaced by supply. Here within map desription are screenshot examples of rewards, Day 6 contains this happening.

5. Nearly every unit is being used only with very few exceptions that didn't fit the mechanics. Like there is never gonna be a flying dragon as level 10, infernal as level 8 who could easily rekt 50% of your units with permanent immolation, infernal juggernaut as level 10 who casually summons an infernal or level 3 ghosts who could possess your knight.

6. This may seem like a negative and appear like it's me making it easy to let you kill a single unit while not fighting them all at once but this is intentional. After 5-6 weeks you are usually at 30-40 food and enemy strength keeps growing while yours doesn't. Soon these pickoffs become necessary for you to survive and it's all about skill to be able to reposition yourself. Fighting slightly weaker armies every day head on while getting barely one new unit would otherwise end after 3 days.

7. Yes you cannot foresee what unit you are gonna get to choose from but it is rewarding once you get a chance to use it. I dare to say there is alot of possibilities to play around especially with day 7 reward when you can focus on a certain race.

8. Statue and Kodo mvp aswell always happy to get them.

To be fair, I thought hard about putting together as much melee content as possible while making it always fair to the player. Waves are different every single time even after you play it 100 times. It offers as many options to play with as units in warcraft 3 can provide. You can choose which race you want to focus onto, you can sacrifice everyone for a powerful neutral, all spells are available, you can get help when you realize you need it, etc. There is lot's of content and mechanics behind it already so it's quite harsh to say it needs more. :/ There is only so much a man can do with unmodified warcraft 3 units.

 

[deepstrasz]

I wanted to give it more of an adventure feel

Well, honestly there's only arena defense. An adventure would require going beyond the death borders, doing things, basically, on other parts of the map than the middle.

7. Yes you cannot foresee what unit you are gonna get to choose from but it is rewarding once you get a chance to use it. I dare to say there is alot of possibilities to play around especially with day 7 reward when you can focus on a certain race.

Well, honestly, I prefer a new unit than say, Moon Glaive, unless you have at least 3 Huntresses, of course.

You can choose which race you want to focus onto, you can sacrifice everyone for a powerful neutral,

Yeah. Didn't try that yet. Can you have more units afterwards along the powerful one? How many times can you do this sacrifice? What's the minimum number of required units for the sacrifice?

Well, you could think of more game modes. It's a really fun map but the downside is, totally main game material and mechanics.

 

[MStylo]

Well, honestly there's only arena defense. An adventure would require going beyond the death borders, doing things, basically, on other parts of the map than the middle.

Then consider it more as a quest. Just like the elves orcs and humans defended Mount Hyjal

Well, honestly, I prefer a new unit than say, Moon Glaive, unless you have at least 3 Huntresses, of course.

Sure some upgrades you don't get to use because you simply don't get that unit but it is always one option amongst many and it is up to you if you can afford to risk it.

Yeah. Didn't try that yet. Can you have more units afterwards along the powerful one? How many times can you do this sacrifice? What's the minimum number of required units for the sacrifice?

It kills everyone to summon a big guy so always only one. No difference when you already have an army of 15 units or last unit with 5% health.

Well, you could think of more game modes. It's a really fun map but the downside is, totally main game material and mechanics.

That is a good point I was thinking about some extra modifications but not so much yet since priority was to make the main concept working. Some extra features are something I will definetily consider.

 

[Blasterixx]

Pretty interesting and fun map, i really like the reward system and the simplicity of the entire map having to deal with only 100% strategic micro and choosing the right reward, but the big problem with it its the fact that its getting to repettitive, especially after week 3~4, i played untill week 8 with 60 food army and then i killed all of them by leaving the circle , My suggestions would be the following:

1. Change the day 7 high lvl mob to day 6 instead, and put on day 7 a Random Hero to spice up the things(fighting only agaisnt units gets boring) for the first week the hero would be lvl 2, and gets 1 or 2 levels(depending of the difficulty for the next weeks).
On harder difficulties the enemy heroes can have some items as well.

2. There are too many weeks , more than 7 weeks seems to be to much in my opinion. So make week 6 or 7 the last one(giving maybe only units with chaos dmg in the last week as well? and the hero for that week would have chaos dmg as well like an exemple(Grom Hellscream from the campaign with the blood from Mannaroth).

3. Change the color of the enemies to red or blue( a color that can be seen on the minimap would be great, since the current color is invisible).

4. Make the obelisk in the middle be vulnerable to attacks as well( forcing the player to protect it and not just run arround the map focusing the enemy creeps one by one), give it maybe 5k hp with fortified armor for easy mode, 2500 hp for normal and 1500 hp for hard.

5. I noticed one of the choices we get after surviving a wave is this "orc/undead forces next week" with yellow words, what does this do exactly? i never get any forces the next week after picking that reward, so might be bugged.

6. Another problem with the choice reward system would be the fact that the player has no idea what the rewards even are, for exemple: Sacrifice all units for etc powerfull monster, there should be said what lvl the monster is and what spells does it have as well, since sacrificing more than 5 units for any kind of unknown monster that is not atleast a lvl 9+ is really not worth it, maybe change the "sacrifice all units" to "sacrifice 4 units of your choising" that will be much better and make it more plausible in the late game as well when u have 10+ units already.

Overall great map with a cool and unique concept, i hope you all the best for the future of this project!

 

[bufek12345678998]

I really liked the idea of the map and played it for around 1 hour. It gets really boring and easy after that. I would give that map overrall 3/5 but i still hope for more content and mostly 2-3 player co-op

 

[MStylo]

I admit I never went over 44-46 food, I was always greedy for researches so it is possible it can get easy once your army gets really big especially on easy or normal. I'll think of some restrictions so it is acually the enemy who kills you, not boredom.

5. I noticed one of the choices we get after surviving a wave is this "orc/undead forces next week" with yellow words, what does this do exactly?

It allows you to focus on one race next week. Every day first unit option and resarch are of given race.

6. Another problem with the choice reward system would be the fact that the player has no idea what the rewards even are, for exemple: Sacrifice all units for etc powerfull monster, there should be said what lvl the monster is and what spells does it have as well, since sacrificing more than 5 units for any kind of unknown monster that is not atleast a lvl 9+ is really not worth it

It is meant more as a last resort or take the opportunity option but I can see it may have felt unnecessary since your army was way too big. I'd prefer keep it more as an unique option having it sacrifice all your units since it's a really powerful unit. If it was at cost of only few units it would be too op. But I may add into the option description unit level. Abilities are up to the players' knowledge.

Thank you for feedback and suggestions, I'll definitely consider them. What do you think in terms of co-op, should they have only one shared reward table or both players their own which would double the amount of armies on the battlefield? The first option seems more appealing to me and also more challenging to the players.

 

[bufek12345678998]

Thank you for feedback and suggestions, I'll definitely consider them. What do you think in terms of co-op, should they have only one shared reward table or both players their own which would double the amount of armies on the battlefield? The first option seems more appealing to me and also more challenging to the players.

Personally i would have more fun if me and my friend got separate rewards but to not make it that easy, game could scale much faster in co-op

 

[Redbody]

Can i Have version map that working on Warcraft 1.30.1 ? i can't find version v1.04 in warcraft 1.30.1
btw the map is really cool

 

[MStylo]

Thanks, glad you like it. However I'm not quite sure how to downgrade it to 1.30.1 sorry :/

 

[Redbody]

oh sad my computer cannot upgrade to 1.30.4 or newer

 

[Kerael]

Hello! I've been playing this map since v1.04 and I'm really impressed by its simplicity and difficulty in conjunction. Great work, I'm a big fan!
I've tried v1.06 today and found a few bugs:

1. When you get double upgrades (at negative supply ratio), sometimes the given upgrade choices are the same.
2. Units with reincarnation result in 'lumber' stat being reduced after their 'death'. After some research I found that it can be fixed with (although I haven't tested it):

TriggerRegisterDeathEvent(trig, u) // fires when a unit with reincarnation dies
TriggerRegisterUnitEvent(trig, u, EVENT_UNIT_DEATH) // doesn't fire

There is also a system out there tracking reincarnation (both death and resurrection), however I don't remember the name.

Also, I'd like to suggest a few things:

1. The options to sacrifice a random unit for healing/mana is almost never picked (at least by me). I think it would be better to instead sacrifice a random unit of a certain level (randomized as well) and give ~100*level health/mana to others. That would alleviate the fear of losing an Abomination to heal already full hp Archers, let's say.
2. Have you considered Orbs giving an anti-air attack? Currently that would mean setting up a 2nd attack for each melee unit, which is too much of labor for a relatively insignificant effect. But when the Warcraft fixes become live, there is a chance of 'UNIT_WEAPON_IF_ATTACK_TARGETS_ALLOWED' actually working and giving/removing anti-air attack upon picking/dropping an item would be really easy. Something to keep in mind, I guess.
EDIT: 3. The rewards dialog shows up without warning (sure, you can time it, but that is a matter of getting used to, which is no the best design, imo). This sometimes result in unwanted missclicks in situations where you regroup immediately after the fight and targeting a heal only to click on the dialog instead. I would suggest adding 2-3 ticks (BattleNetTick.wav) before the dialog shows up to prevent such occasions.
4. The items sometimes spawn in an obstructed part of the field. I think it would be better to either spawn them south of the Pillar or within a ring (with min radius), so they are immediately visible when selected in the dialog.

Good luck with the development! Awesome map!

 

[MStylo]

Hey, I'm already aware of that double upgrade happening, but did not know about reincarnation. Gonna patch it out soon.

1. That acually sounds quite good!
2. As you described, it is pretty much impossible for me to allow melee units hit air with orbs unless I modify them all in object editor which is a kind of dumb thing to do. Also what I hate about orbs is that whenever you put them on units with effects like splash or bouncing it can ruin their attacks in one way or another. For example Orb of Corruption on Elder Hydra with splash makes the attacks to apply no debuf. Or worst case scenario - if you put it on Gryphon, his every attack will just vanish ending up doing nothing. I will have to improve on warning about that because that one hint when you pick your first orb is not enough.
3. I've been thinking about that and a tick is a nice solution.
4. Has it been spawning like too far from the pillar or too close to it?

Thanks alot for a very helpful feedback!

 

[Kerael]

You're welcome! I'm glad to help. :)

2. In that case, you could forcibly drop the items from the troublesome units with a warning message telling that it's for the better. That way there will be no need in the general warning when an Orb is picked the first time. This technique would require a list of items as well as a list of unit-types. Also it's generally better to drop the item to the exact spot where it's been on the ground by storing it's coordinates upon pick up so it will not move anywhere when spammed to pick up.
4. Both. Either it's very close to the Pillar's foundation or it is obstructed by the Pillar, when the item spawns to the north of it. I think that moving the spawn circle/rectangle to the forefront of the Pillar will make it more clear in general.

I've tested the reincarnation thing and attached a test map (jass). DeathEvent fires before the UnitEvent, so the latter acts as a lock for the decision about the reincarnation-death.
However it doesn't account for multiple units of this kind. You'd just need an array for that.

 

[Blasterixx]

Just a quick thing to say, i really dislike the fact that items vanish when a unit dies with them, it makes the game really annoying especially in the late game when everything is so chaotic and u can lose units very easily.

It pains me to see that for exemple even tho i managed to beat a hard level having lost only 1 unit, only to notice the fact that unit had lots of items on it resulting in me losing half of my total sum of items i managed to gather in the whole game/round, losing lots of progress.

I suggest making the items drop on the ground when the units die, similar to when you choose to sacrifice them.

I replayed the game on this latest patch, on hard with everything ON, the game is sure harder now, my highest "score" was getting to week 8, day 6 so far.

Another thing i noticed is the fact that the "random forces" choice has been nerfed somehow, from picking this reward 10 times, i only got 1 good unit from it once (chimera), the rest 9 times i only got low level useless units like murlocs,footman,banshees,etc.

 

[MStylo]

You're not the first person to mention these items not dropping on death. I will probably do it as you suggest and make them fall on the ground.

Random forces have not been touched. The way it works it has fixed level of units it randomizes from. Days 2,4,5 are level 2 or 3 (level 2 always includes healing or mana), days 3,6 are level 4 and day 7 is level 5. That means you can random chimaera only on day 7.

 

[Arthas-23]

hello is there a version that works with older versions of Warcraft 3? 1.26/1.27

 

[MStylo]

Sorry there isn't right now. But perhaps i will make one after I finish work on 1.8.

 

[Arthas-23]

No worries! I decided to get the current version!

if you don't mind me asking, what is the difference between the difficulty levels?

 

[MStylo]

Easy raises enemy level every 7 days, Normal every 5 and Hard every 3 levels. Plus enemies get researches faster. It's said up here in the Features & Details description ^^

 

[Otherknownoise]

Nice map. Looking forward new updates! (co-op mode or victorious mode could be the best)

Also, I don't find decay timer, which I read in F9 "Good to know" list, what is it anyway?
Some units like chimaera can't trigger corrupt orb effect.
"-air" deals lots of damages, but hope to add a tip in game. I don't know this command and quit the game first time.

other things:
My best hard record is week 7 day 3. But I always stuck in week 6.
I need a lot of luck to survive, once some high level units spwan it'll be very hard to defend, like gryphon riders and level 10 creeps.

And when i use undead i always get "cannibalize" instead of "web" tech, which is very strange, without web ud can only type -air.
So I recommend "orc" race because berserker upgrade is very common, which makes orc very easy to defend the first 2 weeks, and "200 heal" keeps berserkers good states.
About sacrifice I only recommend "satyr hell caller" bacause he is chaos melee+animate dead+unholy aura+bloodlust. Melee unit can use vampiric aura to heal itself. After sacrifice the defence force is weak, the only thing should do is recruit units.

 

[MStylo]

Thanks for feedback.

Decay is just a mechanism against exploiting in order to regenerate. You don't need to be bothered by it's unless are unnecessarily extending the fight.
Thanks for pointing out the chimaera. There is a warning about orbs for every unit that has splash or bounce within it's attacks I just forgot to include chimaera.
"-air" was thinking about that before. Will add it.

Week 7 day 3 is not bad all. Yes game can get difficult and rng can screw you over at that point

Chances to get any research tied to your units are equal. You must have gotten unlucky getting cannibalize alot.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Devouring unit with Kodo causes round to not move forward, eventually resulting in all units dying from decay

 

[MStylo]

It works for me in every case. Have you got a replay?

 

[Onholyservicebound]

No replay saved, but it may have just been an unlucky rare bug, I'd devoured a unit beforehand and the round went forward.
Then the second time it stopped, which is when all units died from decay.

Maybe add in a command to simply progress the round in rare cases like that?
I was using latest version of War3 and the latest version of the mod I had DLed the same day I posted the comment, for reference.
Items were on, food decay was off, health for obelisk was off... and difficulty... well, that's not really important...

Spoiler

It was easy.

I'll make sure to get a replay if it happens again . But yeah, a command to force end a round would definitely be nice.

 

[MStylo]

Sucks I can't tell what caused it. And even if I add command for instant clear it could keep happening :/ Will keep an eye out tho.

You acually made me laugh about mentioning the difficulty I was thinking to make obelisk permanently destructible but I can see people are playing it.

 

[CGminded]

Can you make a version where you always get queen of suffering for sacrificing all units? It would be so much fun try it

 

[Tuonela]

I love the map! It's sad that orbs don't give units chance to attack air. Options for range attackers are a bit rare. Can we get super easy mode as well?

 

[MStylo]

You are on point it is often tricky to have enough anti-air especially after you sacrifice all units. I will think of something to improve it. Yes I can add an extra difficulty.

Can you make a version where you always get queen of suffering for sacrificing all units? It would be so much fun try it

The queen is back but not in such glorious fashion as to have her every week. Added "-allcreeps" command which opens up possibilities to get all the rest of creeps.

 

[Kino]

Very entertaining map.

 

[Anachron]

I've played this map and although its fun to play it needs quite a balance update.
In my testing I've loaded specific savegames several times before a wave spawn to see how balanced they are,- it doesn't seem to be quite fair.
Sometimes you get like 5 small units which are easily manageable, another time I get a mountain giant, chimera and casters which hex my army and kill it shortly.

If I were to update this map to make it more fair I guess I would try to randomize spawns not on the food capacity but rather on the gold cost, which is a better indicator. (Food cost is too inaccurate)
Another thing would be to only unlock high food units after specific waves, which makes it a bit more fair.

Overall an excellent idea and well executed map.

 

[MStylo]

It randomizes based on level. Sure two footmen are way easier than a knight in lategame scenario but overall it's fair on average. And you have to get punished by rng at some point that's how the map in it's core works.

Another thing would be to only unlock high food units after specific waves

That's exactly how it works. Mountain Giants won't spawn anytime sooner than enemy level is at least 15. So on hard it's at least week 4 day 6 you get a giant earliest (unless you increase enemy level yourself by failing a challenge).

I get your point but I feel like the map accomplishes something that not many other maps do. You get to face nearly any warcraft 3 unit in always unexpected fashion. A bit of rng Chimaera is a reasonable price for all the replayability.

 

[andrejoss]

Is it possible for me to edit the map to add in a starting hero ? I've played the map a lot and really like it but i wanted to see what it would be like if i had a hero at the start, i've tried editing the map in wc3 editor (i've never made/edited a map in my life) and the problem i was running into was that everytime i tried to save the map it wouldn't save because it needed to generate starting locations and if i do that the map just breaks

Is it possible to somehow bypass that or is that something that isn't allowed ? Sorry if it's a stupid question, i have no idea how wc3 maps work.

I would ask if you could add a "hero" gamemode but i don't want to bother you with things like that since it might be too hard to implement/something you don't want to do.

 

[MStylo]

I haven't made up my mind yet if I want to edit the map since this new blizzard ownership policy came out.
Yeah the map is protected by an external tool so I believe even if you can open it you won't be able to touch the triggers or save the map.

I'm quite happy with state I reached with last patch so unless a bigger bug shows up I'll not update the map. Sorry (a hero would be really broken anyway )

 

[andrejoss]

I haven't made up my mind yet if I want to edit the map since this new blizzard ownership policy came out.
Yeah the map is protected by an external tool so I believe even if you can open it you won't be able to touch the triggers or save the map.

I'm quite happy with state I reached with last patch so unless a bigger bug shows up I'll not update the map. Sorry (a hero would be really broken anyway )

Yeah the EULA change that blizzard did is a really big dick move so i understand if you wouldn't want to touch it, but anyway thanks for the reply and for making this awesome map

 

[MStylo]

Glad you enjoy it. Feel free to leave a rating

 

[Jahjahbinks]

I really like this map. It's fun! And taught me a lot about micro. I went from barely being able to build an altar to being able to win melee games, and this map is partially responsible.
It's more of a brain focus exercise than anything. Only negative is that there is little incentive to keep playing, since there is no victory, and after a few "weeks" it's essentially the same. A more appropriate name would be Attrition of Faith xdd. Despite this, it has high replay factor.
Sounds like you're not going to continue working on this, however replacing the dialog with a fancy lua menu or something would be sweet.
(Also, I have not played the latest version)

 

[MStylo]

Alright I'm coming back to this map. It would need some sort of online ranking that would give player incentive to play I'll try to think of something.
Never worked with lua before so it would be quite time demanding but u're right it would be nice indeed
Feels good reading that I'm doing better job at teaching people micro than Blizzard.

 

[Jahjahbinks]

I was playing this map last night actually. When you get a solid group, your units feel like a family, can be emotional to lose them, lol.

 

[MStylo]

Haha the sense of loneliness is definitely there. If it wasn't for the friendly pillar you would feel very abandoned.

 

[hextor]

I am using Warcraft III Public Test, v1.31. I have downloaded the map, pasted it in \Documents\Warcraft III Public Test\Maps\Custom, but I cannot see it once I am in the game. The Custom folder contains only this map: I can see the Custom folder in the game interface, but no map inside.

 

[JinJang]

As hextor, I'm currently using War3 version 1.30.2
I tried to copy the map to every war3 file I have but still, I can't see the map when open game.

 

[deepstrasz]

I am using Warcraft III Public Test, v1.31. I have downloaded the map, pasted it in \Documents\Warcraft III Public Test\Maps\Custom, but I cannot see it once I am in the game. The Custom folder contains only this map: I can see the Custom folder in the game interface, but no map inside.

As hextor, I'm currently using War3 version 1.30.2
I tried to copy the map to every war3 file I have but still, I can't see the map when open game.

That means you need 1.32+.