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TechTree Contest #11: Theme Discussion

Discussion in 'Submissions Archive' started by Astaroth Zion, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. Astaroth Zion

    Astaroth Zion

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    TechTree Contest #10 is practically done, with judge scoring done (as far as I know) and only a few days left on the poll. It was a great success with 15 participants and 7 entries reaching The Poll.

    Now lets brainstorm for the next version of the contest.

    Previous Installments (with Links)

    The fist thing to decide is the Contest Modifier, here are 3 common variants:
    Contest Modifier Description
    Solo Single author for each entry, no collaboration besides the traditional testing and advising.
    Paired Contestants can join solo or with a team mate. In other words Optionally Paired.


    Here are the ideas we have collected so far.
    I will add or remove some along with our discussion.

    Theme Description
    Alliances Create a new faction based on an alliance not seen on the vanilla (Original) Factions of Warcraft (Example: Tauren and Human, Gnolls and Orcs, etc...)
    Alternate Timeline Describe a single or series of closely related events that have changed your timeline. Then create a faction that would exist in the present time on that alternate world. The faction and all its races must be already present in vanilla Warcraft, so no extraterrestrial beings nor races that are foreign to the Warcraft Universe.
    Ancient Race Create a faction that describies the origins of any of the vanilla W3 races. For example Night Elves pre-Sundering, Hunter Orcs in Draenor, etc.
    Elements Create a faction based on an Elemental focus, using one or more of the four base elements (Fire, Water, Earth and Air).
    Evil Faction Create faction that is a pure evil. Dark spirits, demons, mad scientists, or maybe a great looking civilization of light worshiping people that is corrupted from inside. "Evil will always find a way"
    Improved Melee Continue the evolution of one of the 4 main factions and enhance its techtree. Remnants of Undead and Night Elf, Humans after rebuilding their kingdom, Orcs after stabilizing and creating a new civilization, etc.
    Mirror-verse Reality turns upside down! Down is up and the poor become the rich. Take one faction from the Warcraft universe and shift their alignment. If they were evil before, now they're angels or vice-versa. Eg: The Burning Legion becomes the Shining Legion.
    Nomad Create a faction which their main system is like the Night Elven or heaven's fall's Zear Fallen in that their race has mobility at their side.
    Revolution Take one of the secondary races within the 4 W3FT vanilla factions and make a fully fledged Techtree for them. For example: Ancient's Army, Tauren's Clan, Dwarf Principality, Nerubian Kingdom, etc.
    Techno-magic Advanced technology meets magic! Reinterpret one of the vanilla factions as though they would exist in a futuristic universe where magic and science exist side by side. Example: Dalaran Corporation.

    Idea's Hold-bay

    This a section for ideas that require a certain conditions before they become viable themes.
    Theme Description Requires be Included in The Poll
    Evolution Create a techtree that include elements of customization to every game played, units can develop different "final forms" depending on the player choises. This Techtree should be vastly bigger than the standard 12 units and 4 heroes, however, on single sesion you should be able to unlock only a regular number of units (12 units and 3 heroes for example) Given the extra amount of work needed, contest must be paired and a significant number of modelers should be interested.
    Insurgence Take up to 2 of the minor (and mostly oppressed) races in vanilla warcraft and make a separte faction. Idea scratched for being too similar to Revolution.
    Over Powered Create a faction that is desgined to be stronger by default than any single vanilla race. This factions must be design to play in handicap matches like 1 vs 2. More supporters required. (Personally I think this is not a good theme, because you can make an OP faction by with minor edits like x2 life or +15 damage to all units, etc. Not a theme that challenges people to be as creative as in other ones).
    Pacifist Create a faction that follows a degree of no agression policy, and thus must work in a support role for allied factions. For example no direct damage kills allowed, just DoTs, or no offensive units at all, etc. Just more discussion is needed. (I think is viable theme, yet I don't know if people would like to create non-combatant factions).
    Post-Apocalypse the Warcraft legendarium had had a sci-fi conversion... and then the apocalypse happened. Reinterpret one of the four vanilla races as though they have gone through a high-technological surge and are trying to rebuilt after a devastating collapse. Magic optional, but strongly recommended. More discussion of the theme is required, I guess. (I don't know how viable this theme is).
    Technyfied Race Create a futuristic techtree, rule-breaking the fantasy meta warcraft 3 has established. Perhaps the contest organizers can even gather up a bundle of futuristic models to provide the contestants. Everyone gets the same bundle but we see how much (if) differenly people use them. Last contest a similar idea called Futurecraft was dismissed for the scarcity of fitting resources in the Hive. (I don't know if even a Paired contest could solve this issue).
    Unusual Race Create a faction that doesn't follow a standart WC3 race format, but is competetive with standard races. So nothing extra weak or OP, just different, but made with counters with mind. This is more of a game-mechanic restrain than a Theme, more discussion is required to promote this theme.
    Changelog

    12-June-2016
    • Thread created.
    • Added theme suggestion: Revolution
    13-June-2016
    • Added themes not selected from the last poll: Alliances, Alternate Timeline, Elements, Fourcraft, Nomad.
    • Removed theme from last poll "Insurgence" being too similar to "Revolution".
    • Renamed Fourcraft to Improved Melee. Argument is to be consistent on how this kind of contest was called before. Also adjusted its description to what Kam posted.
    • Added themes: Evil Faction and Ancient Race.
    • Added links for Techtree Contest #3, that was named "Race Building Contest #3" in the archives.
    • Per request, removed the Mini- variant from the modifiers. Let me know if you disaggre.
    14-June-2016
    • Renamed TEAM modifier to just Paired, because it would be hard to find so many contestants to have 3 people teams.
    • Added a proper description of Ancient Race. It should despice the origin of any of the vanilla races of W3 instead of giving chance to create real ancient civilizations (TO be different from the previous contest).
    • Added a area (Idea's Holdbay) for ideas that deppend on certain elements to be viable themes.
    • Themes added to Holdbay: Evolution, Post-Apocalypse, Techno-Magic, Technified Race, and Insurgence.
    • Changed Alternate Timeline description. Here is the old one "Create a faction based on the idea that they exist in an alternate warcraft universe. Example: humans may be extinct or the orcs never came to Azeroth"
    15-June-2016
    • Added theme Techno-magic to main rooster, here old version: [C] Advanced technology meets magic! Reinterpret one of the four vanilla races as though they would exist in a futuristic universe where magic and science exist side by side. Example: Dalaran Corporation.[C]Just more discussion about the theme. (Personally I belive that by including the "Magic" element we have access to enough resources to make this a viable theme).[R]
    • Do to lack of support and recomendation, theme Nomad has been demoted to the "Holdbay", let me know if you want the theme back for the poll.
    16-June-2016
    • Updated Previous Installments tab with the just published results of the Techtree #10.
    18-June-2016
    • After short questionary, reinstalled Nomad as a option for the theme poll.
    • After short questionary, permision was asked to start the poll.
    19-June-2016
    • Theme Mirror-verse added to 'Holdbay'.
    • Theme Mirror-verse approved for the theme poll.
    • Poll thread approved, (although seems that staff approval was not mandatory)
    • Poll thread created here.
    24-June-2016
    • Theme Updated Techno-Magic theme wording from "one of the four vanilla races" to "one of the vanilla factions" to be more inclusive regarding neutrals and other vanilla factions.
    27-June-2016
    • Poll ended, theme selected Techno-Magic, with a Optionally Paired modifier.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  2. BlackRangerXIII

    BlackRangerXIII

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    Astaroth
    I'll start the discussion after the results are posted
    but if there's consolation prize for you
    Send me the BBcode for the post and I'll use it

    ALSO: Contest is solo as paired techtree contests should be in it's dedicated thread
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  3. Astaroth Zion

    Astaroth Zion

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    BlackRanger this is a discussion thread, and I am more than enough active to keep updating it.

    By no means I am the owner of the Theme Discussion, just a hive member helping to get the things moving. You shouldn't act as the owner of this contest nor the only person capable of helping here.


    I don't think so, we only had 1 paired Techtree Contest in the past, just look the historical archives on the first post. Also you just don't force people on doing a Solo or Paired contest, as the theme choosing, it's also up to the contestants to decide what variant of the contest they are willing to have.

    PS: (edit 1) they are no dedicated contest for "Paired Techtree", it's just a variant chosen by the contestants.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  4. BlackRangerXIII

    BlackRangerXIII

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    I see
    Check the PM for more info
     
  5. Astaroth Zion

    Astaroth Zion

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    Per Ranger request: adding themes not selected from the last poll. IMO that seems reasonable as people have fairly recently showed interest on those themes.

    Edit: removed "Insurgence Theme" that was present in the last poll for being too similar to the "Revolution" Idea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  6. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    As a lore freak I certainly like the alternative timeline one.
     
  7. MatiS

    MatiS

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    I have few suggestions for a theme (I'm thinking about participating, as I'll have plenty of time during holidays):
    1. Unusual Race - basically a race that doesn't follow a standart WC3 race format, but is competetive with standard races. So nothing extra weak or OP, just different, but made with counters with mind.
    2. Ancient Race - while this one is a little bit similar to mitology, it can be also a forgotten sci-fi like civilization, or anything that appeared in the world ages ago
    3. Evil Race - race that is a pure evil. Dark spirits, demons, mad scientists, or maybe a great looking civilization of light worshipping people that is corrupted from inside. Possibilities are endless, 'cause evil will always find a way ;-)
    4. Movie Race - yeah, a race based on the movie. It explains everything, so nothing more to add.
     
  8. Misha

    Misha

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    tech tree, eh? what about primal zerg?
    aka where each unit has a chance and choice to evolve into something better after it consumes enough of some sort of essence? :b

    feel free to give this a better name :b
     
  9. VeljkoM

    VeljkoM

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    People still haven't discovered what Techtree #3 was. Misname contest one time to "Race Making Contest" and suddenly it disappears from existence. It was mini/campaign theme anyway.

    Anyway I would pick Alliances or the Elements.
    Altered Timeline is just "Free Theme", which isn't really a theme at all.
    Fourcraft was done and honestly main 4 races are good enough as it is and there is nothing more boring than new races that are clones of existing races.
    Nomad would be creative theme but I am sure people wouldn't like to have mechanical restriction when making a new race.
    Revolution is the way I see it 1/2 of alliance theme since you pick just one creep race instead of 2/3. Besides race with actually just one race is boring, the four main are misnamed alliances of several races which is more interesting in my opinion.

    The other offered theme well "Unusual" I find subjective and besides better let creators decide if they want to use wc3 formula or experiment instead of forcing it.
    Ancient and Evil err no idea really.
    Movie Race well just play wc1.

    Evolutionary race well yeah good luck making that, just imagine all variables needed to be covered. Maybe if Misha would offer to make models.

    Anyway what I would really love to remind everyone is when voting and offering theme please keep in mind the scarcity of resources. Not all people are modelers to make their own resources and techtree shouldn't be synonym for the Model Gallery.
     
  10. Astaroth Zion

    Astaroth Zion

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    Great, this thread is now alive.
    Sounds like a big wild card, IMO promissing but a bit too broad to judge entries that could be vastly unique for the sake of uniqueness. I would like that more experimented people could comment on this idea before adding it to the first post.
    Indeed similar to the past contest, but with less contrains on resources (icons + models) and interpretations. You could make cave men or stoneage trolls, etc. If people agree to go for this kind of contest again, I don't see a reason not to add it to the theme suggestions. To make it more unique we could restric the theme to only races found in vanilla warcraft. Like ancient taurens, cavetrolls, pre-tech dwarfs, etc.

    PS: also if we got plenty of options, we can always do 2 polls. First one a multiple choise one, and then single vote for the 3-5 most popular ones.
    Muaaahahahaha, lovely theme IMO. Plenty of resources and possible interpretations.
    Mmm too restrictive I think.



    EDIT 1: instead of doble posting, I will add my comments on VeljkoM post here.

    Ups my bad, I will look for the contest and update the first post.
    I have to agree here. Although as Chaosy stated Lore is awesome, altering the timeline would have vast and difficult to predict changes, and we won´t have much common ground to judge and compare the entries. IMO Alterate Timeline should be more of a contest for Short Story. I would like to remove this theme, if people agree on these arguments.
    Fourcraft = Improved Melee, we got a contest like that a long time ago, and new contestans have come since. We should give them the chance to go for this more "Clasic" option.
    Also for these 3 themes (Improved Melee, Alliances, Rebellion) resources are plenty, and lore is vast. I bet that the more original interpretations would get more spotlight.

    I have to admit that the evolutionary theme excites me because I would love to create or edit models to show this evolution. (I got many attachment models that follow this idea of tiers and incremental change). However, as stated by VeljkoM, this would rely heavily on creating custom resources. If the contest becomes Paired and we get enough modellers interested in participating we might have a solid and viable theme. (Lets put this idea on hold until we can vote and define if this contest is Paired or Solo.)


    EDIT 2: wow this a big post, now I am starting to understand Kyrbi0 and his legendary walls of text.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  11. Kam

    Kam

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    I want to see race continuation. Pick your favorite vanilla TFT race and progress them as they might appear in WC4.

    Remnants of Undead and Night Elf. Humans after rebuilding their kingdom. Orcs after stabilizing and creating a new civilization.
     
  12. Sunreaver

    Sunreaver

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    Revolution or Improved Melee
     
  13. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    I disagree with the idea that Altered Timeline is a 'free theme'. It's a broad theme with a wealth of possibilities, but I think this is what makes it fun. If you want additional restrictions, I suggest limiting it to the four main races, and imagine what they could look like if, for instance, certain events had never occurred. What would Humanity be like if Medivh never opened the dark portal? What if Arthas had failed to corrupt the Sunwell? What if Illidan was never imprisonned? What if Illidan succeeded in destroying the Frozen Throne with the Eye of Sargeras?

    I don't have any particular desire for this theme to win, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there, since this is a discussion thread. Anyway, I'm torn between Ancient Race (the Highborne could be fun), Improved Melee or Nomad. Revolution also interests me because I would relish the chance to try my hand at a High Elf race that is heavily dependent on magic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  14. MatiS

    MatiS

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    Finally someone who wants to make HE that are not a copy-paste of humans. Can't wait to see it :-D

    I was thinking about making a race of undead originating from another dimension, based on late 80s/early 90s horror films (Evil Dead etc.). A race that do not train most of their units, they resurrect dead organic units as zombies and then transform zombies into more powerful units in special building + buildings can move quickly but have really little hp. So I'll vote for evil,nomad,ancient or alternate timeline (depends on which is more popular).
     
  15. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    Yeah, I've always been annoyed at how High Elves are usually portrayed. Too mundane. If Revolution gets picked, I'd probably make High Elves.
     
  16. Astaroth Zion

    Astaroth Zion

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    The pre-sunwell destruction High Elves?, because if I'm not wrong in W3:Frozen Throne, humans were allied with the Blood Elves. The vengance-hungry magic-deprived remains of the high elves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  17. Emm-A-

    Emm-A-

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    I think that alternate timeline would be extremely interesting but also very challenging, as you have to know a lot about warcraft to develop a nice alternative future... would be great to see!
     
  18. Direfury

    Direfury

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    I'd vote for an Evil Faction/Alliance theme.

    Overall, a team contest would probably be great.
     
  19. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    It would be equally great to have to search for a mapping partner.

    Though it would benefit me if I succeeded with finding one since I can't do gameplay stuff.
     
  20. Astaroth Zion

    Astaroth Zion

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    I like the suggestions made and see the logic behind them. Alternate Timeline can be a viable and challenging theme with a couple of arrangements. My proposal is the following:

    Alternate Timeline Describe a single or series of closely related events that have changed your timeline. Then create a faction that would exist in the present time (¿WoW Legion's present time, or just Post-Frozen Throne?) on that alternate world. The faction and all its races must be already present in vanilla Warcraft, so no extraterrestrial beings nor races that are foreign to the Warcraft Universe.
    We could also add a further note that The Logic behind your faction creation would weight heavily for the judges. If you have a faction with common Night Elves along Scourge Undead Generals your moment that changed the history must be a hell of a good one, I can't imagine one that would create such mismatch.


    I am strongly in favour of having this contest paired.
    I can help this idea by creating a poll on this same thread asking if you want a "Solo or Paired" contest. (Lets hear more voices that are in favor or against the paired contest, before creating the poll).
    Then, if the idea or paired contest is selected, I would create a small section on the first post to showcase contestants that are looking for partners (Showing their skills and what skills they are looking for in a partner)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
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