Harbor of War

[Panda]

It seems a little cramped for the 6 person map but you can obviously do 1v1 or 2v2. The doodads and terrain look great.

 

[deepstrasz]

Spoiler: first/old review

Runes block the way to the golems in the north and south.
Players on the side (east and west) have more space than the others in the northeastern/western and southeastern/western corners.
There are no mines to expand when playing full house.
Terrain is pretty much flat.

Awaiting Update.

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Map description threads

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EDIT - Updated version:

Spoiler: re-review

1. Careful with spacing between trees as small units like workers, footmen, archers, ghouls and others might get through there. They could be used for spying. One of many examples:


2. Avoid narrow places because units might get stuck and become easy targets against Blademasters, ranged/siege and air units also to crowd control spells (e.g. Flame Strike, Lightning Shield etc.):
Although it looks nice, I suggest leaving this sort of terraining for campaigns/single player maps, not for melee where balance is of dire importance (linked some tutorials way down below).

3. Neutral hostile camp ranges are wrong. Only the mine guards should have the highest camp range.

4. Avoid 1 unit neutral camps like that of the Fallen Priest. This unit, not only is it low level to be alone but also ranged and its armour and DPS weak.

5. You have to remove things like neutral hostile canon towers for this map to remain true melee. As altered melee, this would be weak. You could use a campaign tower instead, you know, a unit that no melee race has. But until we solve this (Defining and Placement of Melee Maps with Meagre Changes), leave it melee.

6. Full caster neutral groups are a no-no for orcs since they have weak magic protection until Spirit Link which might come faster now with the latest patch balance changes. However, I see that these camps here are made of only ranged units which might fall prey easier to orc melee units.

7. Very problematic to not have neutral buildings mirrored. The northern players have shops while those in the south don't. Problematic for neutral camps not to be symmetrically distributed throughout the map.

8. Full magic immune camps are not a good idea for early-mid game but could be left for late game like the golems near the marketplaces.

9. Please check pathing pressing P or clicking it in the menubar->edit->view pathing because there are places which have only one way of access even though you might say there are more or none:


10. The bandit camp near the cliff to the big golem is to near to the edge and units on the cliff might make the bandits run towards the bridge. I suggest at least replacing them with ranged units if there's no better place for them.

11. It's somewhat a pain harvesting wood if you're not night elf, especially on expansions. I suggest clearing the way making paths larger and condensing the trees more instead.

This map suffers from limited access through most places. It's pretty much a temporary lockdown that might make players opt for air units over infantry as there's the feeling you're stranded on an island.

Awaiting Update.

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MELEE MAPS
Description Guide - Melee Maps
Describing Your Melee Map
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
Map Thread Guide
Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

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Details

MELEE MAPPING
How to create Melee Maps
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[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

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Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
Paillan
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[meatfactory]

Ok I re-edit it. It should be sufficient for the standards. I did however leave the 4 cannon towers.
I also checked the pathings near the center of the map and they are ok (tested).

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Some neutral hostile units start with low mana.
2. Usually all neutral buildings except the Tavern are guarded by neutral hostile units. It's important in early game for heroes like the Blademaster to not get buffed so easily without at least losing some time to regenerate. Here, the Tavern is OK.
   
3. There are still some dangerous routes (to the 2 trolls with an ogre, for example) that might trap heroes leading to their death if they don't have a Town Portal or the necessary troops/items to stay alive.
4. Camps in the corners of the middle zone have high range of acquisition. Maybe it wouldn't be problematic if not for the zones with columns which small ranged units like those from the camps can get through becoming unreachable by player melee units unless they are also small sized like Footmen, Ghouls. Not only that, but they might drop items there if killed and heroes would not be able to acquire them unless the trees are cut/destroyed.

Ok I re-edit it. It should be sufficient for the standards. I did however leave the 4 cannon tower

I advise on removing them until the tweaked melee tag is solved. However, I'm willing to approve the map if you replace them with non-buildable, non-custom towers like the draenei boulder tower (campaign buildings I mean) for instance.

Awaiting Update.

 

[meatfactory]

Map has been updated ... again. Check version log for changes.

I advise on removing them until the tweaked melee tag is solved. However, I'm willing to approve the map if you replace them with non-buildable, non-custom towers like the draenei boulder tower (campaign buildings I mean) for instance.

While I agree on most parts of the reviews I dislike the way you hold the map on awaiting update status for such thing as the those 4 towers.
You are referring to -Kobas-'s Melee Map Tutorial. Keep in mind there are no rules in Map Submission Rules regarding such policy.

 

[deepstrasz]

While I agree on most parts of the reviews I dislike the way you hold the map on awaiting update status for such thing as the those 4 towers.
You are referring to -Kobas-'s Melee Map Tutorial. Keep in mind there are no rules in Map Submission Rules regarding such policy.

Problem is that melee=Warcraft III ladder melee and we've gotten past that by accepting modified tilesets and doodads but not units and especially nothing related to gameplay balance/mechanics. This is the borderline. You are free to contact the staff or other reviewers. I have done it like this and will not make an exception for you. Worst thing, I could leave it Pending.
If the map tag I mentioned about will be introduced, then no problem, if not I'll stay away from reviewing these maps in the future.

Some of the errors I've mentioned are still but it doesn't matter,
Approved.

 

[meatfactory]

we've gotten past that by accepting modified tilesets and doodads but not units and especially nothing related to gameplay balance/mechanics. This is the borderline.

So how does it effect balance or mechanics to have 4 tower of human melee vs 4 towers of human campaign?
In-game status icon left of the map still considers it melee.
And who is "We" ? some secret melee moderator fan club or something?

 

[deepstrasz]

So how does it effect balance or mechanics to have 4 tower of human melee vs 4 towers of human campaign?

Ask Blizzard, they would not accept the map either way. I'm actually wanting them to so the game would be more diversified depending on each map without of course changing core elements of melee.

And who is "We" ? some secret melee moderator fan club or something?

We are the collective: Hive (staff mostly ; I'm not by the way).

 

[meatfactory]

Ask Blizzard, they would not accept the map either way. I'm actually wanting them to so the game would be more diversified depending on each map without of course changing core elements of melee.

Please elaborate. I have no clue about what Blizzard is accepting or not. Where does this come from?
This site is a separate private party so what blizzard accepts is of no importance or I am missing some key information.

 

[deepstrasz]

Please elaborate. I have no clue about what Blizzard is accepting or not. Where does this come from?
This site is a separate private party so what blizzard accepts is of no importance or I am missing some key information.

Melee Mapping Contest #2

Also, melee was always melee like in ladder. Altered melee was reserved for changes but such a change would make it substandard altered melee.

 

[meatfactory]

melee | HIVE

?

 

[deepstrasz]

melee | HIVE

?

You could have uploaded it right on your post.
Again, it's not necessarily about the melee status since we accept tileset and doodad imports/edits but it's about the gameplay. In no Blizzard melee map would you have neutral hostile or of any kind for that matter towers.