Defense of Felwood

[coconut]

Only 4 heroes (default melee), items for me not useful and so many spam...

 

[Gnuoy]

Only 4 heroes (default melee), items for me not useful and so many spam...

Thanks for trying out this map and I understand why you say that. I created a tips section to in part respond to the impression that this map is too difficult.

edit: also wanted to keep focus on demon hunter lore. so kept it only a few heroes relevant to the lore.

 

[coconut]

Thanks for trying out this map and I understand why you say that. I created a tips section to in part respond to the impression that this map is too difficult.

you need more heroes, like damager/tank/healer for interesting gameplay and more items for them. Also paths to trees very inconvenient, need some changes in terrain

 

[deepstrasz]

Ability descriptions when you learn them show only a max of 3 levels while in reality it's more.
Not sure how to get more food to get the Mountain Giant.
For some reason there's a constant red minimap ping on the Tree of Eternity.
I feel it's useless for the AI controlled ally to attack the Death Towers to the south. They lose units and make the base defense harder. The towers should probably be invulnerable or not able to be targeted since they are not meant to be destroyed anyway.

It's a nice old school defense type map that falls short of gameplay variety (only the same 4 night elf heroes) and replayability. It's extensively based on standard Warcraft III mechanics, items etc.

Approved.

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[Gnuoy]

That's a fair review and thank you for the list of suggestions.
-went ahead and fixed the ability descriptions for rank 4s and made the towers invulnerable
-mountain giant you would need to make a moonwell with a wisp at the merc camp, maybe that's not clear or too annoying. i was worried making a mountain giant cost 5 food, it would make the game too easy
-The red pinging is to show where the legion is currently targeting. Not sure how to make that more clear or if it's just annoying. I find it kind of useful when I play because they randomly target an ancient.

-with the towers being invulnerable, i still want the ai to have a target, so i'm making the shrine reappear after you destroy it with 500k hp, for the AI to have a target incase the choke point is held and there are no other targets. previously i had the ai not attacking so this wasn't a problem but then the base became congested with units.

 

[Blasterixx]

Hello, i played this map a few times, here are my thoughts.

Spoiler: Thoughts

~Negatives/Suggestions:

- The biggest one by far is with the difficulty, i tried the map multiple times, and every time i play it no matter what difficulty i pick, the map sets it back to hard, even when i choose easy or normal, from wave 1 the demons send waaay too many units, and on top of that they also send those infernal machines that drop infernals once in a while which is insane for such a strong unit to be sent in the early waves, the ancients are getting destroyed in a matter of seconds, there is not much that can be done to stop the waves, heroes are too weak at the beginning and you can only buy 1 or 2 units to help at the start but is not enough.

- The waves come too fast as well, there should be atleast 2 minutes between the waves, so players have time to breath.

- The food should be increased by 10 so players can hire more units to help at the start! you can do that by giving players 1 extra moonwell from the start.

- The nightelves allies are also super weak, i get it that is a defence map but god damn, they are all dying from wave 1 or 2, 30 demons and 1 infernal machine obviously will eradicate 3 ancients and 2 night elf units!

You have to give each ancient more units and better protection, increase their units cap to atleast 30 (for each ancient faction), so they can build more units to protect themselves a little so they aren't completely useless.

- The heroes spells should be Q W E R, from what i can see they got the default hotkeys, but those are dog shit, B for blink? a spell that u should be able to spam? yea right.

- About the heroes themselves, i don't see anything bad about having the normal war3 heroes, the only problem is the lack of choice, maybe you can add more heroes for variety and replayability reasons.

- Since this is a pretty big map, i highly suggest you give the heroes the posibility to buy a staff of teleport, so they can move faster from a place to the other, that will make exploring the map easier while also defending against the waves, you can add the staff on the ancient of wonders for example.

- Another suggestion i have is to give heroes a backpack, so they can store more items and have more space, since you can get tons of items from the waves and creeps anyway, this way you dont have to go back and forth by walking to keep selling items all the time. ( i know you can hire a runner for that, but he is soo slow and he can only hold 2 items...)

- From what i have seen, you have an entire team that you can join from the lobby and that is the observars/runners, i have no idea why would you do that since nobody wants to play any map just as a runner, a non hero unit that can hold 2 items in the inventory and has no abilities... that seems weird!

- From what i have seen there is an exploration mode where u have more time to prepare before the waves start, playing that mode i had the chance to actually play the map a little more and have time to prepare, i eventually got to wave 15 before i died, the Pitlord enemy hero was too strong, i was dealing 0 dmg to him, he needs to be nerfed a little.

- I like the sidequests, but they are pretty basic, killing 1 unit and thats it, also there is no reward besides the item that drops from the mob, how about with each quest completed the allied night elf forces get stronger? maybe they get extra food and extra units, that would be cool! that also means you have to make the minibosses for the quests stronger.

- Lastly there should be more neutral creeps around the map, and even stronger mini bosses, for example that whole murloc area in the south east of the map, is such a big area and you get almost no reward for even going there other than a few health potions, there should be some strong mini bosses i feel like waiting for you in those parts.


- I like the voicelines u implemented, they add to the roleplay aspect of the game, i really enjoyed those, how Maiev attacks Illidan after he uses the skull and blames him for everything, that was hilarious.




Overall i really enjoyed the concept of the map, i think the map can be very fun to play, it just needs a few more changes and it could become great, keep working on it and good luck!

 

[Gnuoy]

Hello, i played this map a few times, here are my thoughts.

I really appreciate all your time you put into map. I would recommend using the new hot key settings in reforged and it can over ride everything to be Q W E R. I can repost the details later. I don't have a ton of time right now IRL. As far as difficulty, perhaps this isn't a good example because I am the designer of the map, but I've beaten it multiple times on 'heroic' difficulty. As far as selecting easy then it reverts to heroic, I have not experienced this bug.

I can tell you really delved into the map and seem to understand it well. I can implement more thoroughly respond to your review later.

I'd be happy to play with you sometime and see what your strategy is!

Thanks so much!

 

[Azcalmo]

I can´t open the map.
My Warcraft doesn´t could open it.
Neither my Editor of Warcraft could do.
So i can´t play the game.

 

[Gnuoy]

I can´t open the map.
My Warcraft doesn´t could open it.
Neither my Editor of Warcraft could do.
So i can´t play the game.

Sorry to hear that. I'm editing/playing on patch 1.35, could that be a problem for you?

 

[Azcalmo]

Sorry to hear that. I'm editing/playing on patch 1.35, could that be a problem for you?

I have patch 1.27

 

[Gnuoy]

I'm going to address some common feedback I've been receiving on this map. While I definitely understand where the players are coming from, I think these feedbacks are premature assessments.

1) "it's too hard" - no it's just balanced for 4 players working as a team and using items. try lowering difficulty to practice and find a team to develop a winning strategy with. In the map the players are not facing ordinary foes, this is an invasion of the Burning Legion! My current best is beating Mythic difficulty with 3 players.

2) "needs more heroes" - well unfortunately when the Burning Legion attacked the Night Elves, they didn't have more heroes. Night Elves don't really have strength heroes, they are more agility and intellect. Anything except for these 4 default heroes would really ruin the authenticity of the Burning Legion invading the Night Elven land. I added additional skins to try and satisfy that desire for more heroes.

3) "tech is too expensive" - well it's not a tower-defense nor base-building map. It's a hero defense map. I don't want to lower wisp cost because tech will be unlocked too early and lose emphasis on hero defense or shape the optimal playstyle in a way that is not fun. Tech is offered as a way to burn excess gold or any other clever way you can figure to use it but it's not intended to be optimum strategy. So the gold costs are increased. If you find a strategy that relies on tech, then you are clever.

Totally open to feedback. However, if it's related to any of these three topics, it will need a very persuasive "game balance" related argument and also likely lore-justified argument before I would change any of these three topics.

 

[Gnuoy]

Spoiler: updates (list not complete)

Jun 29 updates -More minor updates related to succubus units not being invisiible and flying units sitting idle when a some ancients are dead. No major changes.
Jul 31 update - minor bugs fixed. also added some "corrupted" tech unlocked by mythic/heroic difficulty.
Aug 2 updates- elaborated on "corrupted" tech, minor bugs fixed, some what significant updates and bugs fixed regarding corrupted building system and Warden anti-corruption building system.
Aug 5 update - more bugs, minor stuff, changed cinematic to move less because some players said it made them dizzy.
Aug 7 update - major bug related to corrupted tech fixed.
Dec 13 update - added 5 more skin options for heroes, fixed minor bugs, Druid Pouch item now refunds some mana to help players that complain about mana burn - druids have lore foundation for refunding mana to their allies, slightly increased spawns after the Shrine dies.
Dec 15 update - fixed a major bugs from update 1.69-1.73, recommended to play on 1.74+, made some minor balance changes, and cosmetic changes.
Dec 18 update - polished corrupted tech values, added some upgrades, fixed major bug related to one of the upgrades, minor polishing.
Dec 19 update - polished corrupted tech, added more hero skins. fixed minor bugs.
Jan 1 2024 update (v3.28) - Expanded save/load system to track which of the 4 heroes the player was victorious with, also tracks extra niche victory achievements such as what difficulty you didn't use demonic magic on, which difficulty you beat as "Hardcore" no death mode, or the "Exploration" extra starting time mode. Also fixed dozens of bugs, expanded corrupted tech and adjusted some costs. It is difficult to balance corrupted tech and some of the later difficulty tech because 9/10 groups cannot play at that difficulty successfully, some balance changes, runner able to tech directly to non NE heroes, such as Human (locked behind Heroic save), Fel Orc, Pandaren, or Naga. Previously required teching and -repicking hero once you had the new altar trained. This still requires a Mythic+ prestige save, so extremely difficult. I really don't know if Mythic+ is possible to beat. I think it is if you have a really serious and skilled group. Personally the highest I've legitimately beat is plain Mythic. Impossible is meant to more or less be something ridiclious to see how long they can last, added prestige for runner slots.
Jan 3 2024 update (v3.33) - major bug that would sometimes overwrite saves fixed.
Jan 4 update (v3.36) - minor bugs fixed.
Jan 6 update (v.3.43) - major bug with loading system fixed, minor bugs fixed.
Jan 9 update (v3.58+) - major crash fixed when runner players would play with heroic prestige.
Jan 11 update (v3.66+) - minor bugs fixed, polishing.
Jan 15 update (v3.72+) - removed murkdeep escort quest because it kept causing desyncs, replaced with new quest, fixed minor bugs, expanded corrupted tech.
Jan 19 update (v3.74) - minor bugs fixed, polish.
Feb 28 update (v.3.80) - mostly focused on Impossible difficulty, polished other minor things.

Still looking for feedback.