The Last Stand v0.8.0

[Ardenaso]

can I get some screenshots/

 

[Stormvarsel29]

I am intrigued.

 

[Ardenaso]

Looks cool so far, thought I died right at night one (I was playing solo) and I couldn't find a one way defendable space

 

[Ozymandias]

Looks cool so far, thought I died right at night one (I was playing solo) and I couldn't find a one way defendable space

Thanks! There aren't many spots with only one defensible entrance currently but that could change. There's a grace period active for the first 3 nights and if you die during the grace period you are respawned the next day. Your buildings will be given to the Villagers player but you can reclaim them using the Rescue Survivor / Claim Building ability.

 

[Ardenaso]

here's my suggested model for the main character, from MWM 's pirate rifleman, votava 's hat villager reforged and Pwnica's wanderer peasant custom models

 

[deepstrasz]

A credits list in the map description with the names of the authors whose resources you've used is mandatory. That includes models, skins, icons, custom spells, systems. Also, sounds, music and everything outside this site.
This helps you with the models, skins and icons from Hiveworkshop: Resources in Use by The Last Stand v0.4.0 | HIVE

Camp Fire says it restores 0 stamina/second.

Awaiting Update.

---

If you want more reviews, you should participate in the The Grand Review Exchange!

R U L E S

Site Rules
Map Submission Rules


M A P - D E S C R I P T I O N

Details

BB CODES
BB Codes | HIVE

MELEE MAPS
Description Guide - Melee Maps
Describing Your Melee Map
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
Map Thread Guide
Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

• A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
  
• A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.
  
• Map thread tags are important. Please use those that fit and not more or none.

M A P - C R E A T I O N - G U I D E S

Details

GENERAL MAPPING
A Beginner's Guide to Map Making
The Ultimate Beginners Terrain Tutorial
Advanced Terraining Tutorial
A Guideline to Terraining and the Hive's Terraining Section
Various Terraining Tips!
Basic Mapping Video Tutorial
WE Map Editor for Newbies!
The Path Of Proper Map Making - What to do and what should be avoided

MELEE MAPPING
How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
Competitive Melee Map
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
Melee Do's and Dont's

PATHING
Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
Shar Dundred
Paillan
Alexen
eubz
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

 

[Ozymandias]

A credits list in the map description with the names of the authors whose resources you've used is mandatory. That includes models, skins, icons, custom spells, systems. Also, sounds, music and everything outside this site.
This helps you with the models, skins and icons from Hiveworkshop: Resources in Use by The Last Stand v0.4.0 | HIVE

Camp Fire says it restores 0 stamina/second.

Awaiting Update.

---

If you want more reviews, you should participate in the The Grand Review Exchange!

R U L E S

Site Rules
Map Submission Rules


M A P - D E S C R I P T I O N

Details

BB CODES
BB Codes | HIVE

MELEE MAPS
Description Guide - Melee Maps
Describing Your Melee Map
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3

MAPS IN GENERAL
The importance of a Description
Description Guide - Maps
Map Thread Guide
Map Description Making: Good & Bad
Map Description - Templates
Map Description Generator [1.2]

How to Add a Screenshot to your Map Description

ADDITIONAL NECESSARY INFORMATION

• A credits list in the map thread description is required where the names of the resource (models, skins, icons, spells, sound etc.) authors are mentioned along with the specific resource. It would be a luxury to have links leading to the used resources. Credits in the Quest Log would be appreciated too.
• A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.
• Map thread tags are important. Please use those that fit and not more or none.

M A P - C R E A T I O N - G U I D E S

Details

GENERAL MAPPING
A Beginner's Guide to Map Making
The Ultimate Beginners Terrain Tutorial
Advanced Terraining Tutorial
A Guideline to Terraining and the Hive's Terraining Section
Various Terraining Tips!
Basic Mapping Video Tutorial
WE Map Editor for Newbies!
The Path Of Proper Map Making - What to do and what should be avoided

MELEE MAPPING
How to create Melee Maps
General - Melee Maps like the Professionals
Competitive Melee Map
Melee mapping - The reasons behind common aspects of competitive 1v1 maps
Melee Do's and Dont's

PATHING
Pathing - Everything about it
[Terraining] Alternative Pathing Technique

LEAKS
Triggers - Memory Leaks and Custom Scripts

If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
Shar Dundred
Paillan
Alexen
eubz
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

Thanks deepstrasz. I updated the map description to include the credits. The next version will fix the camp fire tooltip issue.

 

[deepstrasz]

Approved after credits update.

(previous comments: The Last Stand v0.4.0)

 

[ScrewTheTrees]

Congratulations, knew you could do it, even if i didn't know you were going for it!

 

[ZeroZaraki]

So having played this map for a while now, i can safely say that it's one of the better maps i've played in.... well long enough that i cant remember when the last map that i could spend this much time on came out.

The gameplay idea is super fun, and everytime i search a building i feel like a child at christmas, though being disappointed more often than not the hope of an amazing item or another survivor is keeping me at enticed, the zombies and special units are while quite stupid nothing to scuff at early on if you are new to the map.

There are a few bugs specificly on the Cryptfiend lvl where they dont know where to burrow and my entire screen is filled with bug reports so i can hardly see anything, though the issue is solved before the next night so not really an issue.

There are a few things i would change though.
#1. After the first 2 nights you should be able to have a solid defence of spearmen maybe even a marksman or 2 if you have done perticularly well you can take your camp leader and just walk about even during the night enemies only spawn around your camp so the camp leader is free to loot even during the night with no threat at all, i would recommend to make it so zombies spawn around the camp leader aswell if that is doable, maybe not as many as aroudn the base but just enough so that if you wanna play the night robber there is risk to it.

#2. Game is difficult enough that a new player might struggle a little on his/hers playthrough of the map, but after having played it 2 or 3 times the game becomes... well easy i myself only died once before figuring out a strat that basicly meant that no matter how many enemies were outside my walls i didnt have to give a damn, except for the abomination boss, maybe add different difficulties, for more experienced players?

#3. Game is fun and while a typical playthrough takes about 75 min, i feel like the game actually really fast and it ends way too fast, 75 min is a good length for a map i think but i would love to see maybe a survival mode after beating the last boss? where the game throws all the enemies you've beaten so far at you scaling higher every night. kinda like how it was done in fortress survival.

Anyway these are just my opinions and suggestions, and maybe some of these are already on your to do list. The maps is great and im looking forward to see where you are gonna take it.

I give this a 5/5 actually as it is now i think it's only a 4/5 but the potential is up there so im gonna show some favoritism caus i think the map is great.

 

[Uelf]

This map is great! The difficulty is very well balanced.
The Stamina drain is 10stamina per second and not 3 as listed in the tooltip.
I am very supriised how well the map is. Not many flashy animations. So far i managed to survive 5-6 nights with one friend.
The first game we struggles super hard because we didn't create more shelters, the 2nd night was better but still hard. After the 3rd and fourth attempt we got it figured out and it was a nice difficulty. On the one hand adding higher difficulties would be nice, but a player can do that him/herself by just choosing a more difficult spot to defend so no need to add more.
Getting Gold is super random. In one game i got about 20g in the first 2 nights, the next game I didn't get any gold until the 4th or 5th night. Maybe adding a little shop in the middle of the map where you can trade wood for gold for an expensive price. Maybe 1gold for 2000wood or so.
Otherwise we were positively surprised how great the map is.

 

[Mr. Aonir]

Hi, does it works on v 12.6 or only on 1.31+?

 

[Ozymandias]

Hi, does it works on v 12.6 or only on 1.31+?

I haven't tried it with 1.26 so I think it's safe to say it's 1.31+ only for now.

 

[Mr. Aonir]

Any updates? I can't survive more than 3 nights, the creeps seems to be too powerful...

 

[Meticulous]

So I really like these types of projects, enough that I'm coming out of retirement to give a mini review of this one. I've played a few rounds of it solo now, got wiped out my first couple attempts but managed to complete it twice so far. The first time around, one of my first survivors spawned as a rifleman, which honestly made the game feel like such a cake walk. That might be too much of an advantage to receive by random chance like that considering how high up in the tech tree and expensive the rifle is, plus the fact that getting it that early on meant he leveled up quickly and could more or less hold the base alone with a few good items.

After that clear I got wiped again on the ghost round trying a more militia heavy strategy, which seems to absolutely get shut down on that wave because of the heavy magic damage and the fact that long range units are more likely to ignore your walls and attack the militia directly. It was also in this run that I realized upgrading a militia to a footman resets their experience which seems like an oversight? Either way it feels weird to pay to upgrade a unit only for it to be substantially weaker.

The attempt after that was my next clear and revealed to me what I think might be a fundamental flaw with the gameplay loop. I decided to try walling off completely and leaving my main survivor to loot buildings 24/7 and only return to restore stamina or drop off items when necessary. Honestly the main survivor isn't strong enough that their presence is missed if you do this beyond the first few nights (and if you get a lucky start and manage to get some early defenders your hero isn't even needed then). While it's a lot more micromanagement, the resources you rack up from not spending nights sitting in base is huge, and makes the game pretty trivial. There should probably be some risk to roaming around at night, currently because all zombies spawn near your base rather than your survivor there's nothing threatening about it except having a little less damage at home. I guess in a full multiplayer game this wouldn't be as much of an issue because you'd frankly run out of things to loot if everyone did it.

Aside from that other things that seem like issues to me are the randomness of gold when it's so necessary for more than rudimentary tech to the point where your progression is entirely bottlenecked by RNG, how squishy your melee fighters are even with a priest and buffed up campfire (and how little that matters because of the strange priority the enemies place on attacking walls) and the fact that gates are more expensive and more fragile than walls for seemingly no reason - you're better off just having one sturdy wall and leaving empty space to walk through since again enemies will go right for your walls even if you don't wall off completely.

I appreciate that the map is still in progress so I'm just highlighting things that seem like flawed parts of the core.

 

[Ozymandias]

Any updates? I can't survive more than 3 nights, the creeps seems to be too powerful...

0.7.0 is out now but it's even harder than before. Head over to the Discord server and we can give you some tips on surviving passed night 3!

 

[Ozymandias]

So I really like these types of projects, enough that I'm coming out of retirement to give a mini review of this one. I've played a few rounds of it solo now, got wiped out my first couple attempts but managed to complete it twice so far.

Thanks for the thoughtful review!

The first time around, one of my first survivors spawned as a rifleman, which honestly made the game feel like such a cake walk. That might be too much of an advantage to receive by random chance like that considering how high up in the tech tree and expensive the rifle is, plus the fact that getting it that early on meant he leveled up quickly and could more or less hold the base alone with a few good items.

I agree that this isn't ideal and I will be addressing it shortly.

After that clear I got wiped again on the ghost round trying a more militia heavy strategy, which seems to absolutely get shut down on that wave because of the heavy magic damage and the fact that long range units are more likely to ignore your walls and attack the militia directly. It was also in this run that I realized upgrading a militia to a footman resets their experience which seems like an oversight? Either way it feels weird to pay to upgrade a unit only for it to be substantially weaker.

It's intentional but I understand how it feels like a bug. A Footman's stats at level 1 are about equivalent to a Militia's stats at level 7. A Captain's stats at level 1 are about equivalent to a Footman's stats at level 7. Resetting the xp makes progression feel more apparent, imo, since you watch your units gain levels more frequently over all.

The attempt after that was my next clear and revealed to me what I think might be a fundamental flaw with the gameplay loop. I decided to try walling off completely and leaving my main survivor to loot buildings 24/7 and only return to restore stamina or drop off items when necessary. Honestly the main survivor isn't strong enough that their presence is missed if you do this beyond the first few nights (and if you get a lucky start and manage to get some early defenders your hero isn't even needed then). While it's a lot more micromanagement, the resources you rack up from not spending nights sitting in base is huge, and makes the game pretty trivial. There should probably be some risk to roaming around at night, currently because all zombies spawn near your base rather than your survivor there's nothing threatening about it except having a little less damage at home. I guess in a full multiplayer game this wouldn't be as much of an issue because you'd frankly run out of things to loot if everyone did it.

Your strategy of sending the hero out at night to loot while your other units defend your base is exactly what I intend for skilled players to do. I plan on adding additional things for your hero to do around the map to further encourage that strategy and I plan on adding several different threats to make moving around the map more risky.

Aside from that other things that seem like issues to me are the randomness of gold when it's so necessary for more than rudimentary tech to the point where your progression is entirely bottlenecked by RNG

Yeah this is something I'm constantly trying to balance. RNG is an important part of the game but I think gold is a resource that necessarily needs to be skill based and less RNG-based. On this note, elite's drop a consistent amount of gold each night (equal to the night number) so as long as you are consistently killing your elites you'll be getting gold consistently. Furthermore they have an additional chance to drop even more gold so the faster you kill elites the higher chance you'll get gold for a night. All the gold from looting is RNG and a bonus on top of the regular elite gold drops. The combination of all these methods of receiving gold make it feel very dependent on RNG. All I can say is that it's better than it used to be and it will probably get better in the future.

how squishy your melee fighters are even with a priest and buffed up campfire (and how little that matters because of the strange priority the enemies place on attacking walls)

This strategy is more or less brand new with 0.6.0 and we are still working on balancing here. The militia build is very item dependent and naturally risky so in it's current state it's meant to provide a challenge. With version 0.7.0 medic's healing scales better so this strat may become easier.

the fact that gates are more expensive and more fragile than walls for seemingly no reason - you're better off just having one sturdy wall and leaving empty space to walk through since again enemies will go right for your walls even if you don't wall off completely.

Gates are weaker in order to encourage building larger bases with multiple walls instead of just one gate. This was partially introduced to nerf "hermit" bases where players carve out an base in a thick group of trees and put one gate down at the entrance.

The zombies focusing the walls instead of units is my attempt at strong-handing Warcraft's attack priority system to do something it doesn't want to do. It's less than ideal and I have a few more ideas on how to deal with this. I've been trying different solutions to make this issue feel better for years and I think this is the best it's gotten so far. Still, there may be additional strategies I can implement to improve it.

 

[Mr. Aonir]

Also can you add some voiceline to the main character? Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeee? #orcpeonWII

 

[mangapinches]

Is this map still being updated? I played it on bnet recently and the Engineer building does nothing? Not sure if this is a bug or a feature. Anyway, my brother and I had a lot of fun playing this map.

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah. The last update was v0.7.2 and it was released on 10/2/2021. Engineering is a WIP and currently that building does nothing but further the tech tree.

 

[mangapinches]

Yeah. The last update was v0.7.2 and it was released on 10/2/2021. Engineering is a WIP and currently that building does nothing but further the tech tree.

Oh thanks for info! We are really enjoying this map so far. Until engineering is up we'll try to win with spearmen and maybe muskets.

 

[xorkatoss]

I must say this is a really nice and fun map to play!

was it inspired by this flash game?

So far I have played 2 games(solo) and as a beginner first time playing this map I was a bit confused of what I should do, it took me a while to realize that I should give the builder item to a survivor and use it to upgrade them.

The second time I played solo was somewhat better because I knew how to setup my base, I started searching a lot earlier and I knew about the units I could train to help me.

Although I always seemed to die at Day 7 for some reason lol...

Spoiler: List of Suggestions

1) IMO the most important thing you right need now is a save/load system !
-save/load player exp to transfer between each game, makes it feel like an achievement to play and progress
-shouldn't provide any bonuses so it's fair for new/low level players
-levels could possible just unlock a different hero model for the player to use (eye-candy)

2) Make the cost of searching a building visible/known to player
-when I was low on mana(energy/stamina?) sometimes I couldn't search a building
-an easy way of this is to simply create a floating text OR you can change the hp of a building to the required time

3) Player Equipment
-I found it a bit frustrating that I couldn't carry a lot of items(6)
-It would help A LOT if you implemented a hero equipment system that would also allow only 1 type of each weapon/armor
-other units can stay as is, this is mostly for the hero
-another useful thing would be the ability to have a secondary backpack to carry extra 6 items

 

[mangapinches]

I must say this is a really nice and fun map to play!

was it inspired by this flash game?

So far I have played 2 games(solo) and as a beginner first time playing this map I was a bit confused of what I should do, it took me a while to realize that I should give the builder item to a survivor and use it to upgrade them.

The second time I played solo was somewhat better because I knew how to setup my base, I started searching a lot earlier and I knew about the units I could train to help me.

Although I always seemed to die at Day 7 for some reason lol...

Spoiler: List of Suggestions

1) IMO the most important thing you right need now is a save/load system !
-save/load player exp to transfer between each game, makes it feel like an achievement to play and progress
-shouldn't provide any bonuses so it's fair for new/low level players
-levels could possible just unlock a different hero model for the player to use (eye-candy)

2) Make the cost of searching a building visible/known to player
-when I was low on mana(energy/stamina?) sometimes I couldn't search a building
-an easy way of this is to simply create a floating text OR you can change the hp of a building to the required time

3) Player Equipment
-I found it a bit frustrating that I couldn't carry a lot of items(6)
-It would help A LOT if you implemented a hero equipment system that would also allow only 1 type of each weapon/armor
-other units can stay as is, this is mostly for the hero
-another useful thing would be the ability to have a secondary backpack to carry extra 6 items

I beat this game with my brother and wife. Took us about 10-15 tries. Trust me, it gets really hard on the last night LOL...I would like to share my thoughts on your suggestions.

1. Automated save/load would be cool but they can be buggy. Also, some players hate to have to copy/paste in the codes. Save/loads are a turn off for some people, but personally I like them.

2. You can search any building with 150 energy. You can always just try if you're not sure. Though I remember being frustrated early on - definitely a learning curve that your suggestion could improve.

3. Equipment system - I dunno if I like this. I like the flexibility of building attack speed + lightning orb or stacking tank items on a frontline captain. Also, you can have another survivor follow your guy to hold extra items.

The last night is kinda ridiculously hard. We barely won but we easily could've lost, and it would've sucked to have gotten so far only to lose.

Anyway, thanks for this, we really enjoyed this map.

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm glad you all are enjoying the map Thank you for your feedback!

was it inspired by this flash game?

Yeah it definitely was when I created the first version of the map back in 2005 or so. Nice catch XD. I like to think it has evolved into something else at this point.

1) IMO the most important thing you right need now is a save/load system !

I have some ideas for how to introduce some meta progression but it's all still early in development. Regardless of which direction I take it in, it will be codeless.

2) Make the cost of searching a building visible/known to player

I like that idea. It'd be a pretty nice optimization for looters so I actually might lock it behind some research that players can optionally spend some gold on.

3) Player Equipment

A second backpack was implemented in the past and I'm not against bringing it back in the future. I'd have to think more about a full fledged equipment system (that would be a lot of work) but at the very least a second backpack would be helpful.

 

[xorkatoss]

@Ozymandias thanks for taking the time to read my somewhat long review!

After playing a bit more I found somethings I forgot to mention before:

Spoiler: More Things (5)

1) I would definitely recommend Easy Item Stack 'n Split v2.7.4 by @Dangerb0y (even though it's old, it's pretty good)

The features your map is missing:
-Allows units to seamlessly pick up items regardless of a full inventory. (IMO SUPER important and I'm still wondering why blizzard doesn't natively implement this)
-Allows splitting item stacks within a unit's inventory.

2) Scavenger Class/Job
-A Unit that can only search stuff, preferably has fast movement speed (and maybe limited to only 1?)
-I actually found it a bit hard to walk around and search only during day because I was focusing on upgrading/reconstructing the base
-Having a unit moving around and searching(when he has stamina) will improve survival chances a lot

3) Typo when unable to search

Since stamina potions mention stamina and not mana I guessed this was a typo

4) Building Health Bar Hiding

Alright so this might just be me but maybe you can hide health bars for search-able units (unless you have them shown to know what to search?)
You can easily hide health bars by changing Art - Selection Scale to anything negative e.g -10 (Shift + Enter for negative values)

5) Camera Distance
Again this might just be me (xD) but most of the time I set Camera Distance to 3000-4000 because I like to have a better view of the environment.

Higher Values can also be used but you need to change Map Options to remove the black fog:

this example is what I use in my RPG Map and Camera Distance can go all the way up to 8000.

I really took a liking to your map and I think it has a lot of potential, hope to see more updates

 

[Ozymandias]

1) I would definitely recommend Easy Item Stack 'n Split v2.7.4 by @Dangerb0y

Yeah this looks interesting, I'll take a look. For now you can split item stacks using the "-split X" command, where "X" is the (iirc) zero-based inventory space index [0-5].

2) Scavenger Class/Job

I have something very much like this planned for a later version. Probably a few months out tbh.

3) Typo when unable to search

Yeah I'm actually not a fan of "stamina" anymore. I don't like that it increases the barrier entry (even if just by a little) and tbh it feels a little tryhard. Going back to "mana" eventually, I just haven't cleaned up all the references to "stamina" yet.

4) Building Health Bar Hiding

I like that it makes it more clear where the loot is but I get that it's a bit distracting. There's a better way to indicate that something is lootable and when I figure out what that is I'll hide those health bars.

5) Camera Distance

Did you find the custom camera button under the Allies menu button? Clicking that will present you with a zoom slider. Or, are you suggesting that the max zoom distance be increased? I think the current max is 2250; I don't have a problem increasing it.

 

[xorkatoss]

@Ozymandias

1. Ahh nice I didn't know you can split, although the system I provided allows splitting simply by dropping an item on top of it's self in the inventory.
2. Yes more classes/jobs will be a good addition to gameplay.
3. But doesn't mana feel unfitting for this map? cause Mana is related to Casting Spells....maybe you can try "Energy" instead?
4. One idea I might have for that is to use my experimental method (I can provide the code)

Spoiler: BIG GIF Preview (26mb)

-When you enter the Blue Circle(Doodad with Brilliance Aura Buff as model) it shows a button with Hotkey F that can be pressed to interact
-The interact action can be customized to your liking
-I think this is gonna be easy for you since you already know and utilize the UI Natives

5) Yes I already found your camera slider I was suggesting the max camera distance to be increased

 

[draktok]

Not sure if people are still playing this but i don't see the engineer upgrade... anyone else notice that?

 

[ZeroZaraki]

OHHH, UPDATE!!!! Cant wait to spend some time checking this out again and see what you done