Spellbringers 1.07 - Classic RTS with divine powers!

[Wazzz]

This looks very well made, I'm going to have fun checking out this project.

 

[Rasamayu]

Look very interesting and funny i gonna try it

 

[AMarkov]

In this project, I see the dynamics of SC2. And the idea of dividing races is like in WarHammer: Age of Sigmar.
The Magic Towers are very complementary to the main game. This is an absolute success.
I want to ask - are there any sub-factions planned?
I also PM you a couple of crazy ideas.

 

[Wazzz]

After having played a number of games and defending my title of being the greatest Death player of all time against @Deolrin, I can say without a doubt that this is indeed a map submission.

The factions are very well made and the unit design is very nice across the board. I am especially a fan of the implementation of units within a faction that are designed to provide balance against the more powerful units of other factions, creating an gameplay style where some units might not get used as much in specific match-ups, but there isn't a unit where there's no situations you would use it.

The Giant Toads are a unit, and for that reason, I'm giving this map a 6/5.

 

[Deolrin]

Fantastic project with very interesting ideas and well thought-out balance and mechanics. Certainly feels closer to Brood War and Starcraft 2 than to Warcraft 3, in all the best ways. The Spellbringer mechanic - a powerful structure casting spells to aid the player's army - is well executed and certainly one of several highlights.
I'm going strong at ~10-15 games now with a consistent 0% winrate! Challengers beware!
(that said, do actually PM me if you'd like to play a match )

 

[A]mun]

Played some matches now and my favorite race has to be Death.
Grim Obelisks, Zombie Hordes and Plagues, Black Pyramid with death beam and a unique way of spawning units - all check!

 

[Bawbz]

Played some matches now and my favorite race has to be Death.
Grim Obelisks, Zombie Hordes and Plagues, Black Pyramid with death beam and a unique way of spawning units - all check!

Glad to hear it!

Did you play against an opponent or the AI? If you played against an opponent, I'd love to watch the replays if you have them.

 

[Deolrin]

Played some matches now and my favorite race has to be Death.
Grim Obelisks, Zombie Hordes and Plagues, Black Pyramid with death beam and a unique way of spawning units - all check!

Come join us at the Discord, let's get some rounds going!

 

[A]mun]

Well we played pretty slow/low apm, however i managed to looter rush the undead guy quite often, 1 looter kills 1 necro (if off blight).
All in all i see the esport approach working well, but for me it's a bit too fast paced, like starcraft is meant to be ofc.

 

[Resyak]

Absolutely 5/5, any other punctuation would be almost an insult to something that has taken so much work and effort. All works like this deserve the highest score for me, even if there are small flaws and things that could be improved. But there are very few who invest so much time and effort in creating something original. I will continue to play it more throughout these weeks and surely I will comment again, but in advance I thank you for uploading original and quality content.

Regards.

 

[Deolrin]

Absolutely 5/5, any other punctuation would be almost an insult to something that has taken so much work and effort. All works like this deserve the highest score for me, even if there are small flaws and things that could be improved. But there are very few who invest so much time and effort in creating something original. I will continue to play it more throughout these weeks and surely I will comment again, but in advance I thank you for uploading original and quality content.

Regards.

Hopefully that means we'll see you around on the Discord channel, yeah?

 

[deepstrasz]

It's generally relying on basic Warcraft III melee mechanics. Of the three factions, Death seems to be most original overall.

There is a missing DIBTN for Nature's Protection - level 2.
Eclipse's icon is that of Spell Immunity.
Some balance testing would be required. Death seems to have a lot of movement speed boni (the vampire for instance from Unholy Aura and during the night).

A neatly Warcraft III melee modification that puts emphasis on troops as StarCraft/Warcraft II while relying on a static hero-like unit.

Approved.

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If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
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https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/staff-contact.692/

 

[Bawbz]

Approved.

Thanks for the approval, and for finding that Icon bug. I'll be sure to fix it in the next patch!

 

[Bawbz]

Version 0.9998beta out now!

 

[Bawbz]

Updated to version 0.9999beta. Lots of major changes! Version 1.0 is around the corner...

 

[Bawbz]

Version 1.0 Released! Beginners tournament announced!

 

[Homer123]

Happy to see another great altered melee map. However I do not understand the tenets of defining good map or approval of maps. I looked at every unit in this map and do not see anything that really changed the way RTS plays. For example, units either deals XX damages, or slows down enemies etc. Instead, why can't we have some ability to change unit to mechanical, undead etc (just an example). Yet reviewer still defined it as "original". I had fight with the reviewers before on my altered melee map and lost my hope. But now seeing this kind of map getting all 5 stars and on main page, I wonder is this something war3 players would really play again and again? Is the standards reviewers using really benefit the community? Of course I have bias because what I made, but when I open war3 I would still prefer play standard melee over this for everyday gameplay.

Anyways I still gave 5 star to it just for good will.

 

[FlameofChange]

Damned, I'm too late to participate in the tournament. It is quite micro intensive yet easy to handle.

 

[Antares]

Factions:

Spellbringers features three factions, Order, Nature, and Death, which are very reminiscient of the Magic: The Gathering colors White, Green, and Black, which I imagine were an inspiration since the creator is sporting a Koth of the Hammer avatar on Discord. Here's hoping we will see Blue and Red represented in the future as well.

The factions all feature wonderful, cohesive styles and elaborate, well-thought-out tech trees. Most units have a special ability or a unique tech that unlocks a special ability. Almost no unit is a simple Grunt. The Spellbringers look fantastic and their spells underline the great flavor of the factions. The use of a spitting spider as a siege weapon is very creative and works perfectly for the Nature faction.

Playing as the Nature faction, I have three things to gripe about:
1. Some of the buildings are hard to distinguish from another. The Haven and the Hall of Elites quickly disappear within the sea of other buildings and could benefit from an additional eye-catcher, maybe added via special effect to the building.
2. The Tyrannosaur, while awesome, breaks the flavor of the Nature faction, whose ground animal forces are otherwise exclusively comprised of woodland critters. I think a giant bear spirit would fit better and be equally awesome. The same could be said about the Sky Totem units, which feel like they're just a relic of the map being a derivative of a Warcraft game, instead of it making sense within the Spellbringers universe.
3. The transgender archer upgrade is a serious flavor fail.

Maps/Terrain:

The maps are a hybrid between Starcraft II maps and Warcraft III maps without the creeps. Small ramps lead to the player bases on all maps. I find the decision to use the Starcraft ramps questionable. Starcraft matchups are balanced around Protoss and Terran being able to wall off their base entrance, mainly to prevent Zerglings from running wild. I haven't seen that necessity in Spellbringers. In addition, walling off the ramp is really easy as a Terran with relocatable buildings and Supply Depots that can be lowered, whereas these features don't exist in Spellbringers.

The terrain quality is not on par with the rest of the content, but I may be biased because I don't think most Warcraft III melee map terrain looks that great. Since Spellbringers is advertised as a total conversion mod, I would like to see maps with beautiful terrain and custom trees and other doodads. If that means we get less maps overall, I am fine with it, because, to be honest, in a Starcraft-like RTS, the map geometry has a negligible impact on the gameplay and only the map size is important.

I also imagine a custom system where bonus damage/miss chance is based on terrain height instead of cliff level (similar to AoE2) is worth trying out, getting rid of most of the default cliffs in the process. Default cliffs are ugly (or rather the ramps) and have giant a collision size that interferes with the clunky unit pathing.

Balance:

It is apparent that a tremendous amount of thought and work has been put into the design of the factions and the balance of the units. Each unit has a place in the meta, but is not too powerful that it can't be countered. The Starcraft gameplay has been replicated perfectly. My only concern is the Order Enforcers, who hit like a truck, which is a bit weird for such a low tier unit. But since the tournament was won by a Nature player, it might be a case of "git gud". One issue I had with them, though, is that they're really hard to click and so I ended up running my archers repeatedly into them by accident while training against the A.I., where they were slaughtered in only a few hits.

Controls/UI:

After playing a lot of Age of Empires II, it is a real shock how many quality of life features are missing in Warcraft III. No "Select all Barracks", no production queue, no "Select all idle workers", and an absurdly low selection limit. In a Warcraft III melee game, this is not such a large issue, because armies are small, macro is not very important, and the controls are more optimized towards microing your heroes. However, in an RTS map with large armies and more focus on macro, the lack of those quality of life features hurts a lot. There is the ability to command the entire army via the Spellbringer, but it is not enough to make the controls not cumbersome. I would like to see more quality of life features added via a custom UI.

Summary:

This leads me to my last criticism. I am harsh about these missing features, because the map is advertised as a total conversion mod. However, at the moment, I do not see how this is justified. Total conversion is mostly reserved for maps such as Embercraft or 8-Bit Raid that change almost every aspect of the game and UI, up until the point where the main game is often unrecognizable. Even if it is interpreted as it meaning that it totally changes the RTS gameplay, that is not really the case. The resource system as well as the weapon/armor type systems are mostly unchanged.

In many areas, I think Spellbringers should be more bold and do more of its own thing with the help of all the powerful tools we have available as map makers, building on the foundation of the awesome factions. Currently, I think it is somewhere between a very good altered melee map and an RTS mod.

Because it is advertised as a total conversion mod, I have to rate it as such and therefore give it (4/5) with an easy upgrade to 5/5 if more custom systems are added, such as quality of life features to help with the clunkiness of Warcraft III.

Edit: Controls have been improved a lot! Updating the rating to 5/5!

 

[Bawbz]

Thanks for your review, Antares!

 

[ShamanPowerz]

Make it into a game guys! It'll be hard but make it its own game, RTS market kind of dead atm. Its a very cool project. I don't even know what kind of other teams/races you can make? Fire? War? Chaos? Really awesome

 

[Wazzz]

Make it into a game guys! It'll be hard but make it its own game, RTS market kind of dead atm. Its a very cool project. I don't even know what kind of other teams/races you can make? Fire? War? Chaos? Really awesome

Tech faction, obviously. Or Snake.

Looking forward to seeing further developments in the new year, congrats on the clutch end of year update

 

[Wiimeiser]

Tech faction sounds cool. Chaos Steampunk Snake faction?

 

[osh]

This is only for Reforged? No classic WC3?

 

[Bawbz]

New update dropped - 1.04

For those of you who want a casual experience, the AI has now been updated and will employ multiple different strategies.

 

[Ravager16829]

This is only for Reforged? No classic WC3?

You can only play this map on 1.35 (map description mistakenly says 1.33), which is the latest one for Reforged.

 

[Dancyspartan]

A lot of fun. Masterful project - I can wax on about the intricacies but the developer is hopefully quite aware of the sheer quality.

Simply put: try it if you like C&C, TA, SC like games. Even the AI is engaging.

 

[Macielos]

I gave it a try - it definitely has a cool SC/C&C vibe, with massive armies and macro-focused games. Everything looks polished with lots of climatic custom assets. Interesting idea with Spellbringer's mass move/attack ability as a workaround for WC3 selection limit. I also like non-standard attacks of some units, like battlecruiser-style gunship attack while moving.

I only have one complaint so far - I started testing mechanics vs AI and AI always selects Order faction - are AIs of other factions somehow available? They could be chosen based on standard race we selected for AI: HU -> Order, NE -> Nature, UD -> Death, ORC -> one of above or random.

 

[Bawbz]

I gave it a try - it definitely has a cool SC/C&C vibe, with massive armies and macro-focused games. Everything looks polished with lots of climatic custom assets. Interesting idea with Spellbringer's mass move/attack ability as a workaround for WC3 selection limit. I also like non-standard attacks of some units, like battlecruiser-style gunship attack while moving.

I only have one complaint so far - I started testing mechanics vs AI and AI always selects Order faction - are AIs of other factions somehow available? They could be chosen based on standard race we selected for AI: HU -> Order, NE -> Nature, UD -> Death, ORC -> one of above or random.

Thanks for trying!

Unfortunately, Order is the only available AI right now. In the future, we will be adding AI for all factions.

 

[Bawbz]

Version 1.07 is now live! This update contains a major overhaul to the Death faction, some new toys for Order and Nature players, and lots of balance changes.

This version also retires a few of the old maps and adds six new ones!

 

[TisDavi]

On shadowwood game crashes as soon as I try to place necropolis on 1.07

 

[Bawbz]

On shadowwood game crashes as soon as I try to place necropolis on 1.07

Thank you for reporting this. Is this the only map where this happens?

Edit: Tried this and couldn't reproduce. Can you give me a little more info? What exactly were you doing and what version of Warcraft III: Reforged are you running?

Thanks

 

[TisDavi]

Thank you for reporting this. Is this the only map where this happens?

Edit: Tried this and couldn't reproduce. Can you give me a little more info? What exactly were you doing and what version of Warcraft III: Reforged are you running?

Thanks

Hi,
I'm on version 1.36.0.20257, this is the only map I have tried. I started over 3 times and every time I tried to place the Necropolis the game ctd instantly. I set map to full visibility. 3 normal AIs in a 1v1v1v1, ai are set to random and im set to undead. In game I pick Death.

I will try redownloading and/or trying different maps.

I'll post more on discord.


Edit:

I found the issue, its the Necropolis ground texture that needs fixing. It's being resolved.

 

[Krom]

The map is REALLY fun, didn't had so much fun for a while on warcraft 3. I love this map ! Really well done ! The factions are truly assymetrics and it's really different to play each one. I can't wait to see the fourth faction, probably a "barbarian" faction with orcs?

The pathing of units is well done (for warcraft 3 engine), and having ultimate spells and being able to move the whole army is very cool too, as it avoids having to have an intense micro. Being able to remove the common move etc... in short, a pure masterpiece of mapping as the community knows how

I wonder if adding options for unique units/commanders would be interesting, even if it means making them killable (so not as heroes, leaving the divine building as the only hero) and feasible in a single copy. Also having more players per maps would be cool I think, since I have some friends and limited to 4 is a bit sad I know it's probably easier to balance but at least 1 version 6-8 players would be cool.

 

[Bawbz]

The map is REALLY fun, didn't had so much fun for a while on warcraft 3. I love this map ! Really well done ! The factions are truly assymetrics and it's really different to play each one. I can't wait to see the fourth faction, probably a "barbarian" faction with orcs?

The pathing of units is well done (for warcraft 3 engine), and having ultimate spells and being able to move the whole army is very cool too, as it avoids having to have an intense micro. Being able to remove the common move etc... in short, a pure masterpiece of mapping as the community knows how

I wonder if adding options for unique units/commanders would be interesting, even if it means making them killable (so not as heroes, leaving the divine building as the only hero) and feasible in a single copy. Also having more players per maps would be cool I think, since I have some friends and limited to 4 is a bit sad I know it's probably easier to balance but at least 1 version 6-8 players would be cool.

Thanks for playing and for your review! The main reason I haven't added larger maps is due to lack of interest, but if you need one I can certainly make one. Do you want 3v3, 4v4 or FFA?

 

[Krom]

Thanks for playing and for your review! The main reason I haven't added larger maps is due to lack of interest, but if you need one I can certainly make one. Do you want 3v3, 4v4 or FFA?

Hey ! Thanks for the answer FFA 6 or 8 players would be the best I think.

Do you have a little hint for the next faction/race ?

 

[Vinnie_Yard]

Will project get new updates?

 

[Deolrin]

Will project get new updates?

It is, in fact, getting new updates! You can join the Discord channel to play some of the experimental versions!

 

[MogulKahn]

Not gonna lie, seeing this map being avarded with Director’s Cut I was expecting something exceptional, and instead got an average map, at best.

Couple of cool models and ideas, but overall nothing special.

 

[deepstrasz]

Not gonna lie, seeing this map being avarded with Director’s Cut I was expecting something exceptional, and instead got an average map, at best.

Couple of cool models and ideas, but overall nothing special.

It is not Director's Cut.
Would be nice to share some thoughts as to what special should mean and why average and what does that actually mean, compared to what?

 

[DarthJak]

Not gonna lie, seeing this map being avarded with Director’s Cut I was expecting something exceptional, and instead got an average map, at best.

Couple of cool models and ideas, but overall nothing special.

I'm kinda confused as to what kind of expectations you were wanting out of this

 

[Herohatcher]

Okay epic. I have a soft spot for good menu and tooltipp layout, in which this mod really shines. Also custom abillities, like the meteor from the Death faction look brilliant. Fast paced altered melee with a TON of Maps.
Good job!

 

[The Nightmare Book]

Played it for my humble channel - and I liked it! Played it already once more, and such balance has a lot of potential. All races are capable of defeating each other and I don't see any unbalanced stuff. Thanks to Spellbringers, I guess.
Like!