Mini-mapping Contest #9 - Map Size Limited

[Tal'Rarity]

Well, I guess I should post a wip... So, my concept changed, and I started from scratch, so I am a bit delayed :/ Anyway, take a look at this wip.

It's a clear part of a forest (in making).

TIP: You need to go in-game to actually see anything

Here's a suggestion, disable the minimap and show a fun image on It maybe.

 

[TheWhiteWolf]

Here's a suggestion, disable the minimap and show a fun image on It maybe.

I was going to do that I am going to work on systems, terrain and other more-or-less essential stuff until June 10th or so, and after that I will do aesthetic stuff (minimap, loading screen, model improvements and other visuals)

 

[Daffa]

Holy shiiiiiiiiit

Ok it's over

What do you mean by that?

 

[Mr.Pockets00000]

Seems like a decent contest, but why and may I ask why, should terrain ever be weighted greater than triggers? Triggers may be the most important part of the map, second only to gameplay. Terrain is just makeup and artwork. Not saying its useless or unimportant but giving a triggers a weight of only 10 and terrain a weight of 25 is slightly bullshit in my opinion.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

This is mapmaking which is similar to game making, think about it. Who would play your game if it had no *pretty* terrain to look at?

Edit: I didn't mean to type it so offensively guys. What I meant was that terrain does sadly play a big role in your game. Though I actually do agree that it should be a bit lower for this type of contest while triggers being higher in terms of marking.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

This is mapmaking which is similar to game making, think about it. Who would play your game if it had no *pretty* terrain to look at?

If I could give you minus reputation I would.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

If I could give you minus reputation I would.

That isn't very nice, I have never been a fan of the contests marking process for mapmaking at hive because I dis-agree that terrain should be so close to gameplay. A pretty game only allows for two days worth without a fun gameplay I would think.

 

[GunSlinger]

I'm gonna make a vertically scrolling shoot 'em up like that 1942 game.

 

[BLazeKraze]

@sigelang
Actually, you can use the paste bin but this is not suppose to be permitted because we are going to have a public poll as soon as the contest is over. Here, users will vote for their choice. One thing is that, the final entry should be unprotected maps, protected maps will lead to disqualification.

Ok sir, I hope people will not distribute the models to the public .

 

[GreeN!X]

I'm gonna make a vertically scrolling shoot 'em up like that 1942 game.

Yes please.

 

[eubz]

Seems like a decent contest, but why and may I ask why, should terrain ever be weighted greater than triggers? Triggers may be the most important part of the map, second only to gameplay. Terrain is just makeup and artwork. Not saying its useless or unimportant but giving a triggers a weight of only 10 and terrain a weight of 25 is slightly bullshit in my opinion.

Why? Because that is how this contest works.

 

[Strydhaizer]

Contestants are required to create a map in any genre that could fit in a 32 x 32 full map size.

Great! Ill try to make a melee map in the 32x32 map size

 

[eubz]

Great! Ill try to make a melee map in the 32x32 map size

I don't think this will be possible.

 

[Kazeon]

Seems like a decent contest, but why and may I ask why, should terrain ever be weighted greater than triggers? Triggers may be the most important part of the map, second only to gameplay. Terrain is just makeup and artwork. Not saying its useless or unimportant but giving a triggers a weight of only 10 and terrain a weight of 25 is slightly bullshit in my opinion.

as a coder, I totaly agree with him at least make them equal, have a same portion.. currently, terrainer has so much more advantages than coder to win the competition.. just think about it

my recommendation:
trigger : 15
Terrain: 20
Originality: 20
Gameplay: 35
Presentation: 5
Object data: 5

why? because presentation and object data are rather less important for a game, people dont care about it while playing the game. Gameplay is the most important thing for a game so give it more score, originality and trigger should have more points, they are more important than you think, okay terrain is important, but it just become unfair between coder and terrainer... (EDIT: remember it's just recommendation, I'm no one here and don't have the authority to decide things )

I don't think this will be possible.

that's what make it interesting

EDIT 2:

Triggers may be the most important part of the map,

that's not correct, terrain is much more important. but I was talking about fairness =)

 

[eubz]

as a coder, I totaly agree with him at least make them equal, have a same portion.. currently, terrainer has so much more advantages than coder to win the competition.. just think about it

my recommendation:
trigger : 15
Terrain: 20
Originality: 20
Gameplay: 35
Presentation: 5
Object data: 5

why? because presentation and object data are rather less important for a game, people dont care about it while playing the game. Gameplay is the most important thing for a game so give it more score, originality and trigger should have more points, they are more important than you think, okay terrain is important, but it just become unfair between coder and terrainer...


that's what make it interesting

This is good. What does everybody think about the proposed weight? Should this be adopted? We still have time for a change in weight of judging criteria.

 

[Kazeon]

thank you
and
I have another suggestion: Terrain could be replaced with "Visual". That "Visual" will also includes terrain, used models, special effects, sound effect, UI, font, etc. You know some people love to play eye-candy maps with epic special effects or intense combat scene, so at least give score to it

 

[Tal'Rarity]

You have my vote to change it to what Dalvengyr has suggested, it is better for this type of contest and mapping itself anyways.

 

[eubz]

thank you
and
I have another suggestion: Terrain could be replaced with "Visual". That "Visual" will also includes terrain, used models, special effects, sound effect, UI, font, etc. You know some people love to play eye-candy maps with epic special effects or intense combat scene, so at least give score to it

This is under Map Presentation/Design.

 

[Daffa]

Trigger : 15
Terrain: 20
Originality: 20
Gameplay: 35
Presentation: 5
Object data: 5

Object data is useless? srsly?
Perhaps Object data should get a little more weight and Gameplay weight less, more or less like :

trigger : 15
Terrain: 20
Originality: 20
Gameplay: 30
Presentation: 5
Object data: 10

But more or less shouldn't be an issue. It's not so much of a difference anyway.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

If we talk about the scores I think terrain has too much points in a contest like this. Should be something like 10 or even 5. I believe at least a few contestants will do a map that doesn't even have a terrain.

 

[eubz]

How about this:

criteria	points
originality	10
Map Presentation/Design	10
Terrain	20
Triggers/Efficiency/Performance:	20
Object Data:	10
Gameplay:	30
Total	100

Why 20? Terrain also plays a vital role in the game which affects the gameplay itself. Consider blockers. Also, terrain can hide some objects/units that might be part of the game. There might be some other useful events that terrain is useful.

EDIT
The Judging criteria of this mini-mapping contest is based here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/contest-archive-227/solo-mini-mapping-contest-7-a-214077/

You can also see the same judging criteria on mapping contest here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/contest-archive-227/paired-mapping-contest-6-deceased-207875/

 

[BLazeKraze]

I don't think this will be possible.

For me, it is possible, I tried it before .
I reduced the unit size , collision etc. and also the doodads....

 

[eubz]

For me, it is possible, I tried it before .
I reduced the unit size , collision etc. and also the doodads....

That would be a funny mini-Altered Melee Map.

 

[Shadow Fury]

I agree with you about the too many points on terrain. It's a 32x32 map, what kind of terrain do you expect? It should really be decreased to 10 probably and, as others said, it's better to raise the points on gameplay and trigger.

 

[eubz]

I agree with you about the too many points on terrain. It's a 32x32 map, what kind of terrain do you expect? It should really be decreased to 10 probably and, as others said, it's better to raise the points on gameplay and trigger.

Would it be OK to be this:

criteria	points
originality	15
Map Presentation/Design	10
Terrain	15
Triggers/Efficiency/Performance:	20
Object Data:	10
Gameplay:	30

 

[GreeN!X]

^That's better.

And...

To all the people who said terrain is more important than the gameplay/trigger... ARE YOU F'IN SERIOUS!? It's like saying food that's prettier is better than food that tastes better.

 

[Daffa]

How about this:

criteria	points
originality	10
Map Presentation/Design	10
Terrain	20
Triggers/Efficiency/Performance:	20
Object Data:	10
Gameplay:	30
Total	100

Why 20? Terrain also plays a vital role in the game which affects the gameplay itself. Consider blockers. Also, terrain can hide some objects/units that might be part of the game. There might be some other useful events that terrain is useful.

EDIT
The Judging criteria of this mini-mapping contest is based here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/contest-archive-227/solo-mini-mapping-contest-7-a-214077/

You can also see the same judging criteria on mapping contest here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/contest-archive-227/paired-mapping-contest-6-deceased-207875/

Would it be OK to be this:

criteria	points
originality	15
Map Presentation/Design	10
Terrain	15
Triggers/Efficiency/Performance:	20
Object Data:	10
Gameplay:	30

Doesn't really matters which one, both doesn't grants to much issues.
But I prefer the second one, personally, how bout the rest?

 

[Shadow Fury]

Would it be OK to be this:

criteria	points
originality	15
Map Presentation/Design	10
Terrain	15
Triggers/Efficiency/Performance:	20
Object Data:	10
Gameplay:	30

That sounds much better to me!

 

[BlackKnightTGS]

Would it be OK to be this:

criteria	points
originality	15
Map Presentation/Design	10
Terrain	15
Triggers/Efficiency/Performance:	20
Object Data:	10
Gameplay:	30

That sounds more fair, there's not that much terrain that can be done in such a small map after all.

 

[eubz]

Time to edit the main post, then.

 

[Brambleclaw]

Seems like a decent contest, but why and may I ask why, should terrain ever be weighted greater than triggers? Triggers may be the most important part of the map, second only to gameplay. Terrain is just makeup and artwork. Not saying its useless or unimportant but giving a triggers a weight of only 10 and terrain a weight of 25 is slightly bullshit in my opinion.

Its a map making contest not a game making contest --

Terrain is more important than trigger as terrain is visuals which is more pertinent to the MAP. Trigger's are not that important when it comes to making a Map, some maps have no triggers and work perfectly fine, just look at Vanilla Wc3, etc. Triggers are meaningless to a Map, they are what you make it.

Terrain exists in all type of maps throughout, if you were to give weight onto trigger it'd be unfair on maps that don't require complex systems.





Triggers being out of 20 is just silly tbh. Besides it meant to be basically be Triggers (Do they run smoothly), not Triggers ( How complicated are your systems how well can you code etc)
Tag games will have a lot less triggering then a hero war game, so why force a guy making a Tag game to add unwanted systems simply to tick boxes?



If anything i'd support this idea

---
Originality: 15
Map presentation/design:10
Terrain: 15
Triggers: 10
Object data: 15
Gameplay: 35

^That's better.

And...

To all the people who said terrain is more important than the gameplay/trigger... ARE YOU F'IN SERIOUS!? It's like saying food that's prettier is better than food that tastes better.

Yes because triggers are not unverisally required, terrains are.

 

[IcemanBo]

Terrain is more important than trigger as terrain is visuals which is more pertinent to the MAP. Trigger's are not that important when it comes to making a Map, some maps have no triggers and work perfectly fine, just look at Vanilla Wc3, etc. Triggers are meaningless to a Map, they are what you make it.

C'mom. Who wants a map without any triggers here? It's like the soul of each map!

Of course terrain is also very important, but it's no terrain contest. :s

 

[Cokemonkey11]

some maps have no triggers and work perfectly fine

Then you should expect 10/10 for triggers, and 0/35 for gameplay, because if you're entering a melee map in a mapping contest you better do something pretty damn interesting.

Maintainability, performance, and readability are all valuable for maps across the board - that's software design.

 

[Kazeon]

you can score up to 10 points here.

->
10

 

[A Void]

who cares about triggers, as long as the map functions as it should everything is fine. Terrain is how the whole atmosphere looks, environment, fog, shading. I would hate to see an empty 1 tile-set map with grass doodads plucked together. I think terrain should be 20 points while triggers 15. :/

 

[Kazeon]

people just dont care about the trigger as long as the gameplay is good and has a good visual, that's why I suggest terrain still has a higher portion than trigger. People wont say: "Hey, the trigger is bad, I wont play this game" that makes no sense, while "Hey, the visual and terrain is so flat and boring, I wont play this game" it makes much more sense..

And I suggest that "Terrain" score is not taken from "how beautiful is the terrain?" but "how well the terrain fits the gameplay". because you just cant expect extraordinary terrain, as example, from a mini-game. deal with it

 

[Cokemonkey11]

who cares about triggers, as long as the map functions as it should everything is fine. Terrain is how the whole atmosphere looks, environment, fog, shading. I would hate to see an empty 1 tile-set map with grass doodads plucked together. I think terrain should be 20 points while triggers 15. :/

 

[A Void]

Stop using the pictures as a response, they show your maturity. Please if you have something to say, say it in the ASCII language. Because right now I see that you are immature to respond in a mattered way. If you continue I will report you.

 

[kari0003]

The point of decreasing the points for terrain, is that the map size is 32x32, and there is not much to do with it. You cant really make breath taking landscapes in 32x32, instead people should focus on gameplay.

Anyways, if your map works properly, you wont get minus points in Triggers like Cokemonkey said. If you do less triggers with less bugs, its free ponts for you.
I dont understand why you want to lower your amount potential extra points anymore.


One last thing. You should notice that you are fighting over 5 points!!! Terrain weighting 5 points less wont make people do plain 1 tile terrains WTF

 

[A Void]

You can make a great looking, decent terrain in 32x32 dimensions. If your map functions as it should, you have no problem in losing points.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

say it in the ASCII language.

encoding

 

[Brambleclaw]

Then you should expect 10/10 for triggers, and 0/35 for gameplay, because if you're entering a melee map in a mapping contest you better do something pretty damn interesting.

Maintainability, performance, and readability are all valuable for maps across the board - that's software design.

-- So why would Triggers be so high, its basically a scale from 1 to 10 how laggy is it.

 

[IcemanBo]

But anyway... terrain is still only for visuals. I doubt anyone will have fun with a minimap without putting effort into triggering.

And in your example: Triggers: 10 of 100. (while ObjectData is 15)

 

[Cokemonkey11]

-- So why would Triggers be so high, its basically a scale from 1 to 10 how laggy is it.

Maintainability, performance, and readability. If you don't understand that there's not much I can do.

 

[Brambleclaw]

Maintainability, performance, and readability. If you don't understand that there's not much I can do.

This isn't a game making contest, this is a MAP MAKING CONTEST.

Enough said.

But anyway... terrain is still only for visuals. I doubt anyone will have fun with a minimap without putting effort into triggering.

And in your example: Triggers: 10 of 100. (while ObjectData is 15)

To be honest I thought Object data would be lumped with balance.


Alternatively use this criterion http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/mini-mapping-contests-farming-results-242020/

 

[Cokemonkey11]

This isn't a game making contest, this is a MAP MAKING CONTEST.

Enough said.

Please, enlighten me. How is that relevant?

 

[Tal'Rarity]

This isn't a game making contest, this is a MAP MAKING CONTEST.

Enough said.


To be honest I thought Object data would be lumped with balance.


Alternatively use this criterion http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/mini-mapping-contests-farming-results-242020/

What do you think a map in wc3 is? Something you draw land on for people to know directions and finding locations? =)

A map in wc3 is a game.

 

[Brambleclaw]

What do you think a map in wc3 is? Something you draw land on for people to know directions and finding locations? =)

A map in wc3 is a game.

-- The difference is games are fully customization with no basis you can make one from scratch even have your own engine, that's why functionality is more important in a game. A map is a mod to an existing game, its still based on the same engine, so the actual room for coding is very small compared to the making of the game itself.

Its very difficult to make laggy triggers tbh, even with massive leaks a game can go on for an hour or so before you notice any FPS drop. Besides if your not using jass, then its extremely difficult to fail in GUI. Which is why triggers are less relevant.

 

[Kazeon]

enough. current scoring portion is just right.. difference of 5 wont kills anybody, dont worry =)

 

[Cokemonkey11]

-- The difference is games are fully customization with no basis you can make one from scratch even have your own engine, that's why functionality is more important in a game. A map is a mod to an existing game, its still based on the same engine, so the actual room for coding is very small compared to the making of the game itself.

Its very difficult to make laggy triggers tbh, even with massive leaks a game can go on for an hour or so before you notice any FPS drop. Besides if your not using jass, then its extremely difficult to fail in GUI. Which is why triggers are less relevant.

Outrageous claims deserve outrageous responses, but I'll try and restrain myself.

You're wrong on every level.