Modeling Contest #35 - Troll

[stein123]

Sculpt done:
View attachment 406425
View attachment 406426

You sure that's for SD?

 

[Taylor Mouse]

You sure that's for SD?

I 'll be using it to bake the texture so yeah

first wip on the texture:

 

[stein123]

I 'll be using it to bake the texture so yeah

first wip on the texture:

View attachment 406434

Nice!

 

[Archian]

Great WIP @Taylor Mouse

Updated first post.

@Tauer you wanna join in?

 

[Chucky]

Sign me up, I'll be doing my own concept.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Finally getting to this...

Probably my last WIP before I give it animations.
View attachment 406058

Looks sexy. I will say it's pretty detailed; the dagger & the clothes especially are really intricate looking for SD. That being said, that's kinda your thing so I can't really complain too much. ^_^

Side note, why these contests don’t have teamwork allowed? I can’t recall the last time texturing contest was hosted, so there’s no point to have these restrictions in times when contests are getting less and less attention.

First I just wanted to say I really appreciate your insights in this Contest so far; you've given a trained artist's eye to everything here & can articulate a lot of the issues people might be having.

To answer your question: there's no reason why any given Contest can or can't have teamwork, except as specified in the Contest itself, which is determined by either the Host alone or by the community. Long story short: if you want Teamed/Joint/Paired Contests, you should suggest/propose/vote for them in the Contest Submissions subforum. : )

To your other point: if you feel like Texturing Contests have been getting short shrift, that too is a solvable problem; Users can Host Contests just as well as Mods are (& even compete in those Contests, as long as the Mod is around to make sure everything's on the up-and-up). We're all busy, but if you wanna make a post suggesting a Contest Theme discussion & reaching out to fellow texturers, I imagine you'd get some attention.

Really you could do both; these aren't mutually exclusive.

Sculpting the head

View attachment 406184View attachment 406183

I'm, uh, gonna go with Villagerino & Stein & Murlocologist here; I think you may have the wrong idea about this Contest . You've done a fantastic job recreating that image, but it's far too detailed when compared with other classic-style models, IMO. I don't know about all that "baking the texture" stuff but I mean, it just has a lot going on.

I'll be glad to be proven wrong, but so far what I'm seeing looks like a "real" modeling Contest entry (like, run by 3dsMax or Adobe or DeviantArt or something), as opposed to this Contest where the end-goal should play nicely alongside the Archmage & the Crypt Lord.

View attachment 406200

Hehe, nice. Djinn Trolls!

WIP 2. The proportions are not how I'd want them yet but I'll just figure them out as the model develops.

Good start. I like the bra-thing. Looking forward to more.

It feels like some of you guys fall too much into detail considering mesh so that it looks almost HQ, like skeleton skulls that are meant to be heads of a whole model are applied to weapons. They look flashy, yes, but my sensibilities tell me to get closer to vanilla stuff like Murcologist says

Louder for the people in the back! xD

a preview of its enraged form channeling animation
i added additional troll motifs like glowing symbols while the alternate form is activated. also changed his belt and bracers.
View attachment 406413

Oh heck yeah, man. This guy has kind of a lot going on (e.g. fair amount of nurnies, a bit complex compared to, say, the Paladin), but the fundamental mesh just screams "warcraft 3" to me & it's very cool. I'm loving this weird "captain dire troll" dude. No idea what to do with him, but hey.

Meh; i have not seen anything that might be considered too high poly in this thread yet. Everything seemed pretty fitting to Warcraft III really, so I'm not exactly sure where you all are coming from.

It's the eternal discussion: "what fits into Wc3?" Infinitely subjective & thus infinitely frustrating. The standard was slipping even between RoC & TFT (compare the Paladin or Archer to, say, the Firelord or Destroyer), and over the decades we've seen the likes of Jigrael, Stefan.K, Vinz & Murlocologist & others really push the envelope in terms of "SD/classic" style.

I've made my opinions clear on the above already, but I do feel like Villagerino is particularly equipped to articulate specifics that I cannot, so I gladly defer to him.

===

This Contest is basically a dream-come-true for a guy like me; it's very gratifying to see so much love for (Jungle) Trolls even in this day & age. Love seeing the WIPs & excitement & creativity. Looking forward to the likes of Chucky & maybe Tauer & maybe Direfury & anyone else.

 

[Direfury]

Let's just be blunt, @Taylor Mouse, these contests are generally for models that can actually be used in classic WC3. That's the point everyones getting at.

 

[Deolrin]

Never stopped anyone from submitting a more detailed model before, see SuPa-'s past entries for example. Maybe there will be an adverse effect on the judging, though, who knows.

 

[Archian]

This WIP looks SD to me. Maybe the first were a bit too HD, but this version suits the contest perfectly. Don't worry. You're good @Taylor Mouse - keep rocking! Can't wait to see it animated!

 

[Deolrin]

This kind of debates always pops up in our contests, but suffice to say - Taylor Mouse's model looks fantastic but is definitely overkill for an SD model. That's way too many polies. And sculpting a high poly to bake it onto the diffuse will likewise set it apart from anything currently available in the game.
Again, though, this shouldn't stop anyone from submitting such models. If that's what Taylor Mouse wants then he should go for it.

 

[PROXY]

This kind of debates always pops up in our contests, but suffice to say - Taylor Mouse's model looks fantastic but is definitely overkill for an SD model. That's way too many polies. And sculpting a high poly to bake it onto the diffuse will likewise set it apart from anything currently available in the game.
Again, though, this shouldn't stop anyone from submitting such models. If that's what Taylor Mouse wants then he should go for it.

Why would the texture baking set it apart lol? It's just a very modern way of approaching stylized textures. And where do you see too many polies?

 

[Deolrin]

I don't want to get into this because I feel it's a rather pointless debate. At the end of the day everyone should model as they want to model, it's our hobby and we should enjoy it to however we'd like. I stated my opinion and I believe that it is not terribly unpopular. I could back it up but as I already said, I don't really have an interesting in picking apart someone's fantastic work and pointing out what I personally think "doesn't fit Warcraft 3".

 

[Murlocologist]

Warning: If you join contests to have fun and not to actually compete, then don’t read this piece of advice.


I won two modeling contests paired with different teammates and our entries can be qualified as ‘not fitting for wc3’. One of those models got Directors Cut and was highest rated model on this site at that time. So, no, it isn’t a problem if it doesn’t feel like wc3 stuff.

However, you got to read the room. You ain’t gonna win THIS contest with HD stuff. Paradigm within classic modeling scene shifted thanks to reforged and new dominant trend appeared (I like to call it ’sophisticated geoset merge’), currently old wc3 feel is once again the most important quality to an average forum user. In this contest, poll will be in favor of the model that has the ultimate wc3 feel. HD/HQ stuff will get nothing but a pat on the back and honorable mention in results thread.

So to enhance your chances of competing you should work with in-game textures and meshes that are seemingly on detail level of vanilla, but creative and more sophisticated.

 

[Direfury]

My point was more along the lines of, it also has to be in the SD model section, which, unless times have changed, has a bit of a cut-off point around WoW quality submissions, which might present a problem. I wanna see what the guy makes as much as the rest of you.

But it was invalid, he's just doing the opposite of what I do, and rendering it down from a resolution he's comfortable with.

 

[Archian]

Regardless, great texture work @Taylor Mouse ! Wraps neatly on the model.

Let's see some more WIP's!

@Murlocologist @Direfury you guys wanna join in?

Any progress @PROXY @frostwhisper @Villagerino @Explobomb @Deolrin @Vinz ?

EDIT: We still need judges for this contest Send me a PM if you're interested, or sound off below.

 

[Villagerino]

Any progress @Villagerino ?

Only the concept in my head Have to take some rest and finish more relaxing stuff before I head off into the competition, from about the 10th

 

[frostwhisper]

Any progress @frostwhisper

I'm thinking, I'm thinking!

 

[PROXY]

Some very rough geometry tests. Ignore basically everything lol, just glad I'm getting somewhat started.

 

[Explobomb]

Regardless, great texture work @Taylor Mouse ! Wraps neatly on the model.

Let's see some more WIP's!

@Murlocologist @Direfury you guys wanna join in?

Any progress @PROXY @frostwhisper @Villagerino @Explobomb @Deolrin @Vinz ?

EDIT: We still need judges for this contest Send me a PM if you're interested, or sound off below.

I got an idea so far, debating if I should join in as my way of creating models usually end up getting in trouble with Sanity Check.
Might try and use a model with several geoset layers as base in that case.

 

[Direfury]

@Direfury you guys wanna join in?

Spoiler

 

[PROXY]

Slowly taking form.

PS: Don't forget your back-toes, folks.

 

[Deolrin]

Warning: If you join contests to have fun and not to actually compete, then don’t read this piece of advice.


I won two modeling contests paired with different teammates and our entries can be qualified as ‘not fitting for wc3’. One of those models got Directors Cut and was highest rated model on this site at that time. So, no, it isn’t a problem if it doesn’t feel like wc3 stuff.

However, you got to read the room. You ain’t gonna win THIS contest with HD stuff. Paradigm within classic modeling scene shifted thanks to reforged and new dominant trend appeared (I like to call it ’sophisticated geoset merge’), currently old wc3 feel is once again the most important quality to an average forum user. In this contest, poll will be in favor of the model that has the ultimate wc3 feel. HD/HQ stuff will get nothing but a pat on the back and honorable mention in results thread.

So to enhance your chances of competing you should work with in-game textures and meshes that are seemingly on detail level of vanilla, but creative and more sophisticated.

What the community needs/wants and what wins contests are two different things.
Most of the community is generally more appreciative of SD-style models because they fit best in-game and with other SD-style models.
However, simultaneously, everyone just likes looking at pretty things, and rates them highly accordingly. That's just the nature of the beast.
I will once again state that we're all just doing this as a hobby (even if it's a very important hobby!) and overthinking and overstressing it is silly.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Love the form on that Troll, PROXY. The garb is also very cool; I always love my Trolls with a dash of Undead mixed in. : )

Warning: If you join contests to have fun and not to actually compete, then don’t read this piece of advice.

You say this quickly but it bears repeating because I solemnly believe this is the central question that we must all grapple with, both individually but especially collectively. Because mixing the two is a recipe for incorrect expectations & thus disappointment.

And to be clear it's not like we have to decide "once and for all", but that every given Contest should be an opportunity to dialogue & decide anew what the Goal for that particular Contest should be. It should then be clearly stated, in the Contest Thread, what kind of Contest this is going to be, and it should be clear in how it's designed.

I won two modeling contests paired with different teammates and our entries can be qualified as ‘not fitting for wc3’. One of those models got Directors Cut and was highest rated model on this site at that time. So, no, it isn’t a problem if it doesn’t feel like wc3 stuff.

This is true, but I think a fair amount of that can be attributed to a few factors: 1) people love eye-candy, even if they could never use it, and B) the community's 'overton window' for 'what counts as SD' has definitely slid over the years, even with Reforged somewhat recalibrating things (as you mention below).

However, you got to read the room. You ain’t gonna win THIS contest with HD stuff. Paradigm within classic modeling scene shifted thanks to reforged and new dominant trend appeared (I like to call it ’sophisticated geoset merge’), currently old wc3 feel is once again the most important quality to an average forum user. In this contest, poll will be in favor of the model that has the ultimate wc3 feel. HD/HQ stuff will get nothing but a pat on the back and honorable mention in results thread.

I think you're correct but it shouldn't even need stating; a Contest description & it's Criteria should make it as clear as possible what is expected from Contestants. I tried to do so in the Contests I've run over the years, because (e.g. Hero Contests) I didn't want one guy designing a MOBA Hero & someone else designing a standard-style Tavern Hero; those two are pretty different & are difficult to compare fruitfully.

Perhaps we need to recognize that simply saying "SD" or "HD" isn't enough, and provide some examples of what is expected.

 

[-Grendel]

i tried re-skinning my entry into a forest troll to fit with the only other dire troll in the model section uploaded by cavman but this thing looks like a roided up orc at first glance when viewed in the in-game camera lol. if i'll have enough time before the deadline, i'll try to make a custom texture for this just to make re-skinning this into a forest troll easier.

 

[stein123]

View attachment 406647
i tried re-skinning my entry into a forest troll to fit with the only other dire troll in the model section uploaded by cavman but this thing looks like a roided up orc at first glance when viewed in the in-game camera lol. if i'll have enough time before the deadline, i'll try to make a custom texture for this just to make re-skinning this into a forest troll easier.

Maybe you could just TC the hair?, since most trolls ingame have TC hair, and that distinguish them from orcs (aside from the nose)

 

[Direfury]

My catchall suggestion is to combine two different troll skins. I THINK Forest & Dark Troll at a 50/50 produces Sand Trolls.

 

[frostwhisper]

My catchall suggestion is to combine two different troll skins. I THINK Forest & Dark Troll at a 50/50 produces Sand Trolls.

I mean you're not wrong. At 50/50 it results in a nice neutral grayish skin color.

 

[Kyrbi0]

View attachment 406654
I mean you're not wrong. At 50/50 it results in a nice neutral grayish skin color.

Of course he's not wrong. He's Direfury, not Liarfury. ; )

Hidden

He's Direfury, not Wrongfury. ; )
He's Direfury, not Direphony. ; )
He's Direfury, not Direfalse. ; )

 

[Explobomb]

Does the model require custom/unique animations or is it ok to use an already existing model in the game?

 

[PROXY]

Does the model require custom/unique animations or is it ok to use an already existing model in the game?

Already existing ones is fine.

 

[Direfury]

We're so many years in, at this point, I'm willing to just say "Go ahead and use MY submissions' animations too, what do I care"

That's what I made them for.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

Next Wip, a little more... blood and handpainting to get that wcIII feelin:

and some wires

 

[frostwhisper]

Alright, time for WIPs

Spoiler

 

[Murlocologist]

This is true, but I think a fair amount of that can be attributed to a few factors: 1) people love eye-candy, even if they could never use it

Not quite. Model in question actually (somehow) lost the poll, it was model and texture judges who gave it comfortable victory. It lost poll by just a few votes, so impact wasn’t so great to final result. Also it wasn’t the ‘average user’ who gave it DC either.

Pushing the limits of WC3 with complex meshes and custom textures that deviate from wc3 feel used to be appreciated, right now not so much. Today, this contest will be won by most wc3 feel model, not by the most complex one, because poll will bandwagon towards those only. If this contest was hosted few years ago, Taylor M would have taken the victory with a pretty great model he presented. (even though I don’t like the way texture was done, trial and error drawing it is the only way acceptable for me, but hey)

 

[Archian]

Alright, time for WIPs

Spoiler

View attachment 406692View attachment 406693View attachment 406694View attachment 406695

Uhhh, intriguing! Great WIP!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Alright, time for WIPs

Well hey howdy hey, that's a T-Rex if I've ever seen one. That's no Troll. ; )

Not quite. ... It lost poll by just a few votes, so impact wasn’t so great to final result.

I mean you're not really defusing my point there. ; )

Pushing the limits of WC3 with complex meshes and custom textures that deviate from wc3 feel used to be appreciated, right now not so much. Today, this contest will be won by most wc3 feel model, not by the most complex one, because poll will bandwagon towards those only. If this contest was hosted few years ago, Taylor M would have taken the victory with a pretty great model he presented.

1) Well again, I think everyone has different proclivities. I can tell you a few years ago I was exactly as I am now: entirely uninterested in anything not SD & Warcraft-y (since those aren't the same). I'm sure the audience for those models still exists today.

2) I have fought for a long time for us to consider alternative Voting methods & practices, in part to avoid bandwagoning & the "popularity contest" issue. Aside from a few trial runs, I have been met with a fair amount of resistance when changing these things, even when pre-agreed-upon by the Contestants.
But you've definitely got my attention if you want to avoid such things in the future; either through simply hiding the Results until after Voting, or through the usage of multiple Votes (2+) or Ranked Choice Voting.

3) I'm not so sure. But again, it's really more a matter of "what kind of Contest is this" (or rather, "what kind of Contest should this be"). He shouldn't really be 'sweeping' a Contest that explicitly states "entries should be as "Warcraft-y" as possible" or "made to fit alongside the standard models". It's up to the Contest to be clear about what kind of entries it's looking for.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

wow, so much discussion and hate towards today's standard pipeline of creating textures that I use.

this makes me wonder if it is even worth it ...

 

[frostwhisper]

I think the discussion is running in circles at this point. Any methods we use, provided that they follow the contest/site rules, are fair game in my opinion. Let's leave the final product critique to the judges and poll thread.

Texture work WIPs (went back and forth a lot on this but opted to go for in-game textures)

 

[Archian]

wow, so much discussion and hate towards today's standard pipeline of creating textures that I use.

this makes me wonder if it is even worth it ...

Nawh, man. You’re doing great! Keep up the good work. Still looking forward to see your work of art animated

Awesome WIP @frostwhisper

 

[Taylor Mouse]

Alright, finally got my exporter fixed for team color and the glaze fx on the hands, time for rigging & skinning ( and not caring about what other ppl think .. to much )

 

[PROXY]

Alright, finally got my exporter fixed for team color and the glaze fx on the hands, time for rigging & skinning ( and not caring about what other ppl think .. to much )

View attachment 406779View attachment 406780

You go girl!

 

[-Grendel]

LORE

"Warlords of the hidden land's primitive trolls. These hulks of sinew and rage command the manhunter trolls to raid and pillage nearby tribes of other races. These Dire trolls sheathe their weapons and tap into their inner magical and animalistic nature while in the midst of battle to awaken their savagery, granting them proficiency in hand to hand combat with each continuous strike."

Hello! here is my entry for the Modeling Contest #35 - Trolls.
When I made this model, I was thinking of "How can I make a dire troll unique and not just a lumbering mass of flesh?". I immediately thought of giving him animations that emphasizes on "primitivity and animalistic" thus the giant slab of meat as a clubbing weapon was born. I have it animations that interact a lot with the food. But then it gets too boring once you get over the meat club concept, so I created an alternate form for it. He totally ditches the weapons and just goes full berserk mode, using his fists to pummel down enemies. I even added glowing tattoos to further differentiate him from his axe form and further highlighting the "rage" concept.

This model contains two forms:

An axe wielding form which utilizes weapons and a ranged spell throw attack where he throws his off hand weapon as a projectile. This form also contains a Spell Two animation where he bites down on the giant slab of meat. There's also a channeling animation which is a channeling version of the Spell two. The Spell animation of the axe form can also be used as a Stand Victory.

The alternate form is where he sheathes his weapons and use his fists in combat. This form changes his look drastically, tattoos and runes light up during this form and his muscles constantly pulsate to emphasize the troll tapping into its inner enraged, animalistic nature. It contains two attack variations and an attack slam where he slams the ground using his fists. This form also includes a channeling animation where he "charges up" kinda like a saiyan. It can be used for either a regeneration or an attack power up ability.

This model contains:

• 100% custom mesh
• particle effects
• custom animations
• ribbon effects (different ribbons for the rage form's attack slam)
• custom event objects (different footprints for the barefoot and armored foot)
• a different portrait for the enraged form
• a proper missile for the spell throw

Here are some in-game screenshots of the model:

In-Game Screenshot 1

View attachment in game 3.gif

In-Game Screenshot 2

In-Game Screenshot 3

My entry can be found Here - Dire Troll Tyrant

 

[Kyrbi0]

wow, so much discussion and hate towards today's standard pipeline of creating textures that I use.

this makes me wonder if it is even worth it ...

I'm sure there are others who agree with me, but speaking only for myself I want to deeply apologize if you at all felt like I was spreading hate about you or your entry. In no way should you feel unwelcome to compete in Hive Contests, regardless of your methods or style (so long as they comport with the Rules, of course).

While I would maintain that your entry exceeds the ideal of the Contest, the reality is that is entirely the fault of the Contest for not being specific enough, rather than on you. Your entry has provided a touchstone upon which to center the discussion, but you should in no way take that to mean it's not worth it to finish.

As I've said before, your model looks utterly gorgeous & you've continued to do an excellent job on it. Your artistry was never in question.

View attachment 406834
View attachment 406816

Absolutely unbelievable man. I'll save my full comments for the Poll thread (or your Resource page, i.e. never xD), but that thing is a thing of beauty. And such a perfect name, to boot. : D Definite contender for the Troll Crown. ; )

 

[frostwhisper]

Same model, different WIP

 

[-Grendel]

Same model, different WIP

View attachment 406855

me likey a lot

 

[Kyrbi0]

Same model, different WIP
View attachment 406855

I have a feeling my fancy Intellectual Property is about to be encroached upon. xD

 

[Chucky]

View attachment 406647
i tried re-skinning my entry into a forest troll to fit with the only other dire troll in the model section uploaded by cavman but this thing looks like a roided up orc at first glance when viewed in the in-game camera lol. if i'll have enough time before the deadline, i'll try to make a custom texture for this just to make re-skinning this into a forest troll easier.

Maybe if you add that mohawk that almost all trolls have it wouldn't look so much as an orc...maybe

 

[-Grendel]

Maybe if you add that mohawk that almost all trolls have it wouldn't look so much as an orc...maybe

yup. replaced the mohawk like the ones vanilla trolls have.


edit: are contestants still allowed to make edits to the entry even if its posted? i'll just edit the post i made above for the entry after i do my model edits. an idea just popped into my head today to add like zandalari loa stuff like tiger claws whenever he attacks on the alternate form

 

[Vinz]

yup. replaced the mohawk like the ones vanilla trolls have.


edit: are contestants still allowed to make edits to the entry even if its posted? i'll just edit the post i made above for the entry after i do my model edits. an idea just popped into my head today to add like zandalari loa stuff like tiger claws whenever he attacks on the alternate form

You can edit as much as you want before the deadline.

 

[-Grendel]

You can edit as much as you want before the deadline.

gocha, thank you!