Melee Mapping Contest #1 - 1v1[$100 Prize Pool]

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Just to be sure, we are not allowed to create a map with more than 2 starting locations ?

Or more starting locations can be added but the map must be balanced for 1v1 gameplay ?
Ah. There's no rule regarding the amount of starting locations. So yes, maps can be up to 4 or more players but it will only be judged as 1v1 balance criteria, of course.
 
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Just to be sure, we are not allowed to create a map with more than 2 starting locations ?

Or more starting locations can be added but the map must be balanced for 1v1 gameplay ?

If you look at the current mappool for competitive Warcraft 3 - the highest starting location is 4. (Twisted Meadows and Turtle Rock - these maps are some of the best ever made IMO). Back in the day (6) Gnoll Wood was part, but it was removed due to imbalances for certain races.

If people want to have a look on the current competitive map pool:

(2) Amazonia
(2) Ancient Isles
(2) Echo Isles
(2) Last Refuge
(2) Terenas Stand
(4) Twisted Meadows
(4) Turtle Rock

Other maps, that sometimes gets added:

(2) Melting Valley
(2) Secret Valley
(2) Centaur Groove (Rarely anymore)
(2) Dalaran
(3) Nomad Isles
 
Just to be sure, we are not allowed to create a map with more than 2 starting locations ?
To recap the theme:
Create a competitive 1v1 melee map that excels in terrain, dynamic, and creativity, but most importantly balance
the goal is to create a 1x1 melee map, so what for would the extra start locations' functionality be?
 

deepstrasz

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I do agree that it's generally faster to judge melee maps
Maybe you could do an exception seeing how these people basically keep the Warcraft III spirit high up. About the judging, nobody needs to hurry anyway, it could take as long as it needs.

It would be best for the enthusiasts to at least have some experience in melee map making before joining. That would be fairer to the judges.
 
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mafe

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To recap the theme:

the goal is to create a 1x1 melee map, so what for would the extra start locations' functionality be?
Well about more than 2 starting positions:
-Not knowing where your enemy spawns exactly makes scouting more important.
-If you know that your enemy (probably) does not know where you are you can try something risky as taking a big camp early or fastexpanding or some cheese build.
-Different starting spawn combinations can lead to the same map being played out radically differently, see TR close vs TR cross position. Essentially, you have two maps in one. Imho that's a possible option to score in the "ensuring the map isn't stale, repetitive,"-department.
-Extra starting locations are possible expansions later in the game.
 

deepstrasz

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-Different starting spawn combinations can lead to the same map being played out radically differently, see TR close vs TR cross position. Essentially, you have two maps in one. Imho that's a possible option to score in the "ensuring the map isn't stale, repetitive,"-department.
Just to be sure about close players, either create the map specifically with distanced starting locations or just use triggers like in this map: Skeletal Coast v1.3 which does it like StarCraft II (ensures no players who are enemies start near each other).
 

mafe

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Just to be sure about close players, either create the map specifically with distanced starting locations or just use triggers like in this map: Skeletal Coast v1.3 which does it like StarCraft II (ensures no players who are enemies start near each other).
Unfortunately according to @StoPCampinGn00b earlier in this thread, no triggers except melee map initialization are allowed. So having starting locations sufficiently far away from each other seems to be necessary.
 
Not knowing where your enemy spawns exactly
Is this a 1x1 melee map behaviour?
Extra starting locations are possible expansions later in the game.
The amount of start locations isn't related to the amount of (gold-) bases in game.

-If you know that your enemy (probably) does not know where you are you can try something risky as taking a big camp early or fastexpanding or some cheese build.
-Different starting spawn combinations can lead to the same map being played out radically differently, see TR close vs TR cross position. Essentially, you have two maps in one. Imho that's a possible option to score in the "ensuring the map isn't stale, repetitive,"-department.
^Those points basicly say, it can make it a better, or more fun map. Which might, or might not be true, but isn't important at the question if it's a valid 1x1 melee map, or not.

Yes, and I also don't think one should use triggers to regulate the start locations, even if it's only to ensure some fair placement. Strict definition should include no gameplay manipulation, and we probably should not start with certain trigger exceptions. The decoration exception can be fairly seperated, as it's stated not be in touch with the game mechanics per se.
 

deepstrasz

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I made very fast progress on my map. So, I will finish it soon. It will be called ''The Origin of Light''.
Don't forget WiP (images of it) so we know you just didn't take it from the net or something.
Actually, everyone should kind of like show us the base terrain/foundation and then the rest as it gets over it (doodads, height/lowering of terrain/cliffs, neutral camps etc.).
 
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Don't forget WiP (images of it) so we know you just didn't take it from the net or something.
Actually, everyone should kind of like show us the base terrain/foundation and then the rest as it gets over it (doodads, height/lowering of terrain/cliffs, neutral camps etc.).
I'm not such a thief to steal maps. :D I will post the WIP, but maybe tommorow, cause I will be little busy now. ;)
 
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< This one can't really think of something worthwhile, so won't compete.

Hence i'm eager to see what the community got in store - fire me up with some work-in-progress!
 

The Panda

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Couple screenshots of the progress, finished both start locations. I haven't choose a name for the map yet.
 

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Below is my WIP: ''The terrain is not fully done and there are no added units''

I had a quick look on your map and while it looks nice, your tree placement isn't suitable for melee. I saw some space between them (ne player can use it to hide whisps), acctualy there are few spots with 2x2 space (you can build hum. towers for exp.) I would definetly try to rework those forest areas. Have a nice day! :)
 
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I had a quick look on your map and while it looks nice, your tree placement isn't suitable for melee. I saw some space between them (ne player can use it to hide whisps), acctualy there are few spots with 2x2 space (you can build hum. towers for exp.) I would definetly try to rework those forest areas. Have a nice day! :)
Ok, thanks! I will look into it.
 
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Here's a WIP of my map entry! It uses my custom tileset inspired by the Twilight Highlands in World of
Warcraft.

W3mmc3b.PNG


ObsidianForestTitleCard.png

The map contains:

2 High-ground bases (15000 gold)
2 nearby low-ground expansions (12500 gold)
2 faraway high-ground expansions (17500 gold)

2 Taverns
2 Mercenary Camps
2 Goblin Laboratories
1 Goblin Merchant

6 green creep camps
8 orange creep camps
5 red creep camps

4 blocked pathways (near the taverns and high-ground expansions) that can be cleared by destroying
2 layers of trees. Normally, there's only one way into the opponent's (and yours) high-ground section, which is also conveniently blocked/defended by that player's low-ground expansion. To bypass that route you'll need to destroy one the trees blocking one of the pathways or use air units/Goblin Zeppelins.

This also means that the rush distance is quite long. To increase player interactivity early on, most of the green creep camps are located in the middle of the map, so that players have to fight over them.

I've included the map and some proof-of-concept screenshots here. Please try it out! I'm particularly looking for feedback on player vs player matches and player interactivity, because so far I've only tested against the AI.

W3mmc.PNG W3mmc2.PNG
 

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Here's a WIP of my map entry! It uses my custom tileset inspired by the Twilight Highlands in World of
Warcraft.

View attachment 282484

View attachment 282471
The map contains:

2 High-ground bases (15000 gold)
2 nearby low-ground expansions (12500 gold)
2 faraway high-ground expansions (17500 gold)

2 Taverns
2 Mercenary Camps
2 Goblin Laboratories
1 Goblin Merchant

6 green creep camps
8 orange creep camps
5 red creep camps

4 blocked pathways (near the taverns and high-ground expansions) that can be cleared by destroying
2 layers of trees. Normally, there's only one way into the opponent's (and yours) high-ground section, which is also conveniently blocked/defended by that player's low-ground expansion. To bypass that route you'll need to destroy one the trees blocking one of the pathways or use air units/Goblin Zeppelins.

This also means that the rush distance is quite long. To increase player interactivity early on, most of the green creep camps are located in the middle of the map, so that players have to fight over them.

I've included the map and some proof-of-concept screenshots here. Please try it out! I'm particularly looking for feedback on player vs player matches and player interactivity, because so far I've only tested against the AI.

View attachment 282472 View attachment 282473
Pretty nice, Ascrelle! Keep it up and Good luck! :)
 

mafe

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Here's a WIP of my map entry! It uses my custom tileset inspired by the Twilight Highlands in World of
Warcraft.

View attachment 282484

View attachment 282471
The map contains:

2 High-ground bases (15000 gold)
2 nearby low-ground expansions (12500 gold)
2 faraway high-ground expansions (17500 gold)

2 Taverns
2 Mercenary Camps
2 Goblin Laboratories
1 Goblin Merchant

6 green creep camps
8 orange creep camps
5 red creep camps

4 blocked pathways (near the taverns and high-ground expansions) that can be cleared by destroying
2 layers of trees. Normally, there's only one way into the opponent's (and yours) high-ground section, which is also conveniently blocked/defended by that player's low-ground expansion. To bypass that route you'll need to destroy one the trees blocking one of the pathways or use air units/Goblin Zeppelins.

This also means that the rush distance is quite long. To increase player interactivity early on, most of the green creep camps are located in the middle of the map, so that players have to fight over them.

I've included the map and some proof-of-concept screenshots here. Please try it out! I'm particularly looking for feedback on player vs player matches and player interactivity, because so far I've only tested against the AI.

View attachment 282472 View attachment 282473
First of all, this map and tileset look awesome. Second, regarding balance I'm afraid the map is way too large. The distance between the spawns is about twice as long as usual, and then all paths are also "blocked" by creeps. Early harass will be more or less impossible. Also every map should have an accessible shop. Because right now a bm can buy boots whereas everyone the creeps at the shop are a severe threat to kill any other hero. Forests contain holes in pathing everywhere.

I am sorry if my posts seems overly negative. As I am also a competitor in this contest, I am not trying to make the others look bad, in fact it is the other way around, I really want to help you improve, at least from my perspective. Let me explain something for everyone submitting a map:

I have been playing wc3 more or less since TFT was out. It is really my favorite game and I consider it likely that I will also follow it for years to come. However, I am so so sick of seeing the same maps in the competitive map pool virtually unchanged. Maps like TM, TR, EI have been around forever. The "newer" (as in: less than 10 years old) maps like amazonia or ancient isles are do not really offer much for the players to be creative, only Last Refuge is a very positive inclusion imho. In fact, ever since the closure of the korean tournaments more than a decade ago (most of which had several unqiue maps in each edition) I've been waiting and hoping for innovative and balanced maps to give wc3 a fresh feeling again. It just never really happened, and the community was often reaction in quite an overly negative way to any attempt to bring in new maps. But then again, I cannot remember a contest like this one.

So I hope you can now understand that I have high hopes for this contest: In particular the possibilty that "higher quality maps will have a chance to go on competitive map pools on 3rd party leagues and tournaments" is main appeal of this contest for me. If one (or more) maps will at some point make it to w3arena or even tournaments, it would almost be like a dream come true for me.

This is why I would like everyone participating to not make a beautiful map, but make a balanced playable map where looks are important but come clearly second to balance. I dont care if I win, I want wc3 to have new maps. But let me state it this clearly, I cannot imagine how a map like the one above, has any chance of being balanced (at a higher skill level) and being relevant in the wc3 scene, even if it is the Mona Lisa of maps in terms of looks. Remember that 50% of the score if in the contest is balance, and another 25% also come from playing features. I know many people here care an awful lot about aesthetics and I respect you for that. If that is what you plan or expect of this contest, then go ahead. But for every map that cares about looks before balance is a wasted opportunity for me, one which might never come again in the history of wc3.

If anyone has questions about balance, I will gladly try to answer them.
 
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sc10.jpg
sc10.jpg sc01.jpg sc02.jpg sc03.jpg sc04.jpg sc05.jpg sc06.jpg sc08.jpg sc09.jpg sc07.jpg Here`s my Work-In-Progress. Excited to see more, everybody? I'm banking on people dropping out ;)

@mafe, @deepstrasz : I shot for balance and the right map size with this one. Any obvious concerns you can see? I know, I know--- I have the bad habit of making maps slope up with the cliffs towards the edges, it's boring and overdone, but I hope the strategy of the middle of the map will make up for this... Anyway, may the best map win!
 
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Kyrbi0

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View attachment 282504 View attachment 282504 View attachment 282495 View attachment 282496 View attachment 282497 View attachment 282498 View attachment 282499 View attachment 282500 View attachment 282501 View attachment 282502 View attachment 282503 Here`s my Work-In-Progress. Excited to see more, everybody? I'm banking on people dropping out ;)

@mafe, @deepstrasz : I shot for balance and the right map size with this one. Any obvious concerns you can see? I know, I know--- I have the bad habit of making maps slope up with the cliffs towards the edges, it's boring and overdone, but I hope the strategy of the middle of the map will make up for this... Anyway, may the best map win!
That is fantastic.
 

mafe

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View attachment 282504 View attachment 282504 View attachment 282495 View attachment 282496 View attachment 282497 View attachment 282498 View attachment 282499 View attachment 282500 View attachment 282501 View attachment 282502 View attachment 282503 Here`s my Work-In-Progress. Excited to see more, everybody? I'm banking on people dropping out ;)

@mafe, @deepstrasz : I shot for balance and the right map size with this one. Any obvious concerns you can see? I know, I know--- I have the bad habit of making maps slope up with the cliffs towards the edges, it's boring and overdone, but I hope the strategy of the middle of the map will make up for this... Anyway, may the best map win!
I dont have any major problems with your map. It looks at least as good as any current map and the distances and overall layout seem fine from the overview. A few "obvious concerns" for now which I think can be fixed however:
-Those ghosts/wraiths can possesss creeps. That's an interesting mechanic but also requires careful micromanagement and can lead to some potentially questionable situations. Obviously, you can ensure not having any units possessed by creeping the spot hero-only, which may or may not be realistic. I'm not sure how the AI works here, but if the itemdropping creep were to ever possess a unit, the item is lost. Also, you can be sneaky and have a lvl 3 ghost possess a bear or some other big unit, then kill it and increase the overall exp from the spot (probably not practically relevant though). My summary/recommendation: Dont have too many possession-creeps in one spot, and get a non-possessing creep to drop the item.
-Forest look not "condensed" (cant tell for sure from the screenshot), i.e. there are probably several paths leading to forest. I believe this would fall under the faulty-pathing-bug criteria.
-Expansion only accessible by a single ramp: Creepchecking here would be devastating. But on the other hand once you secure the expansion, if you get towers near the ramp it's very hard to attack. I could foresee the moment someone tries to creep the expansion to be the decisive moment in many games. Personally, I would make the expansions more difficult to defend.
-Creeps will attack trespassing units. I believe that's a feature that is not necessarily imbalanced, but unpopular nevertheless.
-Trees in the main bases are relatively far away from the town hall (or equivalent). Undeads probably wont be able to protect their acolytes by walling (surrounding the gold mine with buildings so that at least a blademaster cannot get near them).
-I cannot comment on the itemdrops, which have a huge influence on balance.
 
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@mafe
Since you seem to be an experienced ladder player :
Is there any good reason to not include an uneven amount of goldmines. I started my map with 2 main goldmines +1 natural for each player and one that is contested. Do you think there are any balanceproblems with that? I havent seen any played map with an unequal amount of goldmines yet so just asking
 
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I have finished my entry, yuppi.

THE ORIGIN OF LIGHT...

I don't want to sound negative - just some things you might want to improve:
  • Tree placement - Use P and Ctrl-D to see any gaps in the trees, there shouldn't be any in melee.
  • Taverns - Making Taverns guarded by high level creeps makes any strategy involving 1st Hero a Tavern one unusable. I suggest switching Goblin Merchant with Taverns and make the Taverns unguarded
  • Size - 128x128 is usually a 4 player map, 1v1 maps are often times smaller
  • Readability of the map - the visuals play a big role in the overall atmosphere of the map but sometimes too many effects may cause problems with recognizing what's happening on the screen
  • Item drop - making 20% item drops seems like russian roulette to me :cgrin: killing a 46 lvl camp and getting nothing seems kinda bad, getting 5 8lvl items on the other hand would make the other player's hero overpowered
  • Base layout - it's kinda hard to protect your peasants from those pesky BMs with this much open space
Your map is aestheticaly pleasing but I feel it suffers from the same problems as Ascrelle's map - putting the visuals over the gameplay. It's great, that you finished it, cause now you have all the time playtest and fix any problems and that takes the most time in the creation of a map. Wish you good luck in the contest.

Edit: I did the math (hopefully right) and there's a 33% chance of getting nothing and a 0.032% of getting 5 8lvl items in the middle. And there should be a 0.0001252% chance to get 5 Crowns of kings giving +25 to all stats :clol:

Yeah, those are allowed as long as they don't alter gameplay (like drop custom items or grant bonuses) since they're used for decoration.
Great :csmile: Don't worry, they're just there for pleasing the eyes of players (they're not based on any blizz model)
 
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mafe

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@mafe
Since you seem to be an experienced ladder player :
Is there any good reason to not include an uneven amount of goldmines. I started my map with 2 main goldmines +1 natural for each player and one that is contested. Do you think there are any balanceproblems with that? I havent seen any played map with an unequal amount of goldmines yet so just asking
I dont see an obvious problem. I remember that years back there was a map called "treasure island" featuring 5 mines in total. Technically, "nomad isles" has nine mines, but how many games do ever get to the point where players take 9 mines? I think most maps have rotational symmetry which implies an even number of mines. So if there is an issue, I dont see it at the moment.
 
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I don't want to sound negative - just some things you might want to improve:
  • Tree placement - Use P and Ctrl-D to see any gaps in the trees, there shouldn't be any in melee.
  • Taverns - Making Taverns guarded by high level creeps makes any strategy involving 1st Hero a Tavern one unusable. I suggest switching Goblin Merchant with Taverns and make the Taverns unguarded
  • Size - 128x128 is usually a 4 player map, 1v1 maps are often times smaller
  • Readability of the map - the visuals play a big role in the overall atmosphere of the map but sometimes too many effects may cause problems with recognizing what's happening on the screen
  • Item drop - making 20% item drops seems like russian roulette to me :cgrin: killing a 46 lvl camp and getting nothing seems kinda bad, getting 5 8lvl items on the other hand would make the other player's hero overpowered
  • Base layout - it's kinda hard to protect your peasants from those pesky BMs with this much open space
Your map is aestheticaly pleasing but I feel it suffers from the same problems as Ascrelle's map - putting the visuals over the gameplay. It's great, that you finished it, cause now you have all the time playtest and fix any problems and that takes the most time in the creation of a map. Wish you good luck in the contest.


Great :csmile: Don't worry, they're just there for pleasing the eyes of players (they're not based on any blizz model)
No, you don't sound negative, you sound negatively positive. :) And thank you for your suggestions my friend, they will help me improving this map, thanks! :)
 

mafe

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@Svetli
In addition to what @Knecht said, some more points regarding items in particular. For melee map items there are some rules you simply have to follow (can explain reasons if necessary)
-Only 100% chance.
-Only items of the following categories: Powerup lvl 1-2, permanent lvl 1 or higher, charged/consumable lvl 2 or higher, artifact lvl 7+8.
-Rarely, items can also be specfically the following: watcher wards, runes of healing or mana (or one that restores both). Maybe goldcoins/lumber, but I havent seen those in any melee map yet.
-Buildings should not drop items, only creeps should.

-A map is generally expected to have an early-to-midgame expansion posssibilty, aka a gold mine guarded by a brown creep camp.
-If a you play as undead, you will have all those flowers etc in your base.
-Goblin shipyard seems unnecessary.
 
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@Svetli
In addition to what @Knecht said, some more points regarding items in particular. For melee map items there are some rules you simply have to follow (can explain reasons if necessary)
-Only 100% chance.
-Only items of the following categories: Powerup lvl 1-2, permanent lvl 1 or higher, charged/consumable lvl 2 or higher, artifact lvl 7+8.
-Rarely, items can also be specfically the following: watcher wards, runes of healing or mana (or one that restores both). Maybe goldcoins/lumber, but I havent seen those in any melee map yet.
-Buildings should not drop items, only creeps should.

-A map is generally expected to have an early-to-midgame expansion posssibilty, aka a gold mine guarded by a brown creep camp.
-If a you play as undead, you will have all those flowers etc in your base.
-Goblin shipyard seems unnecessary.
Thank you for your opinion too, mafe!
 

mafe

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Ok after I criticized several others, it's time to back up my talk ;)
Here is a the current status of the map I intend to submit. It is rather likely that I will severely change a few parts, but for now I'm confident that my submission will be based on this version.

I have worked on the gameplay aspects first and not bothered much about aesthetic aspects. I will worry about those later.

The key "new and innovative " aspects which I tried to implement on this map are the following:
-Axial symmetry. Currently all maps in the competitive pool feature rotational symmetry (except for EI), so there are some creepspots which dont "belong" to either player.
-Random building: There are 2 merc camps (lordearon summer), 2 laboratories and 1 shop on the map. And then, there is one random building, which can be either of the following: A market place, a black dragon roost (not on any current map), a second shop, a third mercenary camp (but cityscape variation), or it can be no building at all.
-A contested island expansion (thinking about removing it).
-No items of lvl 4+5, but red camps drop a lvl 6 permanent item (which iirc is only seen on TM out of all current standard maps). This is also so that there will be no auras available at the marketplace.

One final question: Now I've submitted a preview; but I could still change my mind and submit a completely different map, right? Of course then I would also have to submit another preview.
 

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Hey all,

here is my first WIP. I did not bother with any terraining yet, everything you see on the map is just for balancing purposes.
Since there is no 1v1 melee map with 3 possible start positions for the TFT expansion, i tried to make a balanced one. It is very hard to balance distances to neutral buildings for this kind of map, since the startpoint of one player is on the mirror plane, but I am confident that I can do it within the time limit of the mapping contest.


Looking forward to get some constructive criticism!
 

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Level 13
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Hey all,

here is my first WIP. I did not bother with any terraining yet, everything you see on the map is just for balancing purposes.
Since there is no 1v1 melee map with 3 possible start positions for the TFT expansion, i tried to make a balanced one. It is very hard to balance distances to neutral buildings for this kind of map, since the startpoint of one player is on the mirror plane, but I am confident that I can do it within the time limit of the mapping contest.


Looking forward to get some constructive criticism!
First of all, beautiful smile! :D
 
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