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Hive Workshop Cup Melee Mapping Contest - Results

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Register for the Hive Cup Tournament here


1v1 Competitive Map

Either create a competitive 1v1 map, or nominate an existing map of yours, to be featured in the first ever Hive Cup Tournament. The selected maps will all be featured in the qualifier rounds, and 2 in the final matches. Let your creativity reign while ensuring the map is balanced for competitive play.

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  • First Place: 45 reputation points, an award icon, and your map added to the map pool
  • Second Place: 30 reputation points, an award icon, and your map added to the map pool
  • Third Place: 15 reputation points, an award icon, and your map added to the map pool
  • Fourth Place: 5 reputation points, an award icon, and your map added to the map pool
  • Judges: 5 reputation points

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  • RemoDemo

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FinalScore = ((Judge Score %)*0.8) + (Vote %*0.2)

  • Brightwater Oasis - 87
  • Rivulet - 78
  • Northwatch Hold - 76
  • Uther's Slumber - 73
  • Starfish Village - 70
  • Gold Port - 70
  • Moonspark - 69
  • Ruins of Azhara - 63
  • Dawning Fall - 62
  • Calamity - 59
  • Drakkari Domination - 52
  • Mirrage Cage - 52
  • Arinas - 42
  • Capital Island - 42
  • Lord of the Pit - 41
  • Northfall Isles - 41
  • Picaroons - 40
  • Logging Camp - 39
  • The Syndicate's Hive - 38
  • Waves of Sandwar - 37
  • Skewed Atoll - 36
  • Northbound Forest - 35
  • Raging River - 34
  • Blooming Peninsula - 32
  • Shadowfang Keep - 28
  • The Poison Vein - 25
All scores out of a possible 100.




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The new score of the 3rd place maps are within 0.1% of each other and is the reason behind the 3-way tie.

Contest | Poll | Download Winning Maps | Final Scoring Details
 

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Great contest! I congratulate the winners as well as just about everyone participated! Many many lovely maps were presented during the event.

This was a hella ride!

EDIT: Reading Xander's reviews gave me a good laugh. Dedicated to abused children? What?

Would be fine to compare different reviews, but here we have a list of numbers and a missing judge.
 
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Level 23
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Can´t believe I have to write this but I´m very disappointed and didn´t expect this lack of professionalism in the Hiveworkshop. This is just ridiculous.

Im not 13 any more and creating maps for contests like this is actually quite a lot of work if you take it seriously.


Never again

Hm yeah, I don't understand it, it's not even remotely funny. How did this get through? Sad.
I guess your real score isn't 0, because you still scored quite high.

@Landmine

I don't get this formula:
FinalScore = (80/(Judge Score %)) + (20/Vote %)
I guess it is supposed to be "judge score has 80% influence, vote 20%" ?
e.g. capital island: juge: 75 poll: 17 postulated score: Capital Island - 42
How do u get this value? Even the judge's 80% of 75 should be above 42, or what am I missing?

FinalScore = (80/(Judge Score %)) + (20/Vote %) ?
FinalScore = 80/75 + 20/17 = 0.224 ?
FinalScore = 0.8 * 75 + 0.2 * 17 = 63 ?
 
Level 17
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lack of professionalism in the Hiveworkshop. This is just ridiculous.
Uhm, not to take stuff out of context, but this pdf is about the most professional thing I've seen in my entire life.

--EDIT--
This message is not an official statement from the Tournament's organiser. With it, I mereley wanted to point out the vagueness of Anomines' complaints and therefore encourage a more productive dialogue.
 
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Level 29
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Can´t believe I have to write this but I´m very disappointed and didn´t expect this lack of professionalism in the Hiveworkshop. This is just ridiculous.

Im not 13 any more and creating maps for contests like this is actually quite a lot of work if you take it seriously.


Never again

Since you got 70 score from one judge, and 0 from the other, In my opinion is rightfull that such discrepancy in the score should be evaluated by the High Staff.

Hm yeah, I don't understand it, it's not even remotely funny. How did this get through? Sad.
I guess your real score isn't 0, because you still scored quite high.

@Landmine

I don't get this formula:

I guess it is supposed to be "judge score has 80% influence, vote 20%" ?
e.g. capital island: juge: 75 poll: 17 postulated score: Capital Island - 42
How do u get this value? Even the judge's 80% of 75 should be above 42, or what am I missing?


FinalScore = (80/(Judge Score %)) + (20/Vote %) ?
FinalScore = 80/75 + 20/17 = 0.224 ?
FinalScore = 0.8 * 75 + 0.2 * 17 = 63 ?

One of the judges has decided to disqualify a map and put 0 score, because the map had childrens as critters, wich they will be used by undead player to be killed and rise skeletons.

There are international laws, where such thing as kill childrens is forbbiden for games.
As example: you can not kill childrens in Skyrim, you can kill women and men adults.
As warcraft 3 is a +12 game, there are laws that limit the game content.

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there was no written rule about use childrens as critters in the contest, and this is the first time I see this issue in a hive contest.

and I hardly think that a mapper should have international game laws experience, and this problem could have been perhaps solved in other way, since this never happened before. ( take the map select all units, replace with frogs).

He got pawned SJW style.

SJW? I dont get it.

Uhm, not to take stuff out of context, but this pdf is about the most professional thing I've seen in my entire life.

I am sorry to say that I can not agree with you.
 
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I am sorry to say that I can not agree with you.

I dont wish to contradict and do flamming pointing flaws, but I not going to lie praising that PDF neither.
I didn't mean anything beyond what I wrote. I never pretended to understand what the issue is. That particular remark form Anomines seemed misplaced, as one should (ideally) either voice their complaints in an understandable fashion, or not voice them at all.
If there is an issue, I'm sure we can work towards finding some solution.
 
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@Anomines I feel for you. Apart from the development joy and interacting with other contestants, a cold disregard is pretty much all I've gathered after the deadline.
I understand that Xander saved himself a bit of reviewing time by calling my designs 'random placement' and not having to test the only path (on-init) to the enemy side.
But children? What the fuck really.
Uhm, not to take stuff out of context, but this pdf is about the most professional thing I've seen in my entire life.
The guy is conscientious with measurements and the effort to put up an actual document, I'll give him that. But when it comes to assessment, it's just taste, preference and perception written down along with a couple of truisms. It's hard to find objective essence in his estimations, apart from the obvious conclusions.

I guess a bad joke would be only right here:
 

deepstrasz

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There are international laws, where such thing as kill childrens is forbbiden for games.
Right but it's OK to kill animals especially in China where they also eat them live.
there was no written rule about use childrens as critters in the contest, and this is the first time I see this issue in a hive contest.

and I hardly think that a mapper should have international game laws experience, and this problem could have been perhaps solved in other way, since this never happened before. ( take the map select all units, replace with frogs).
Nobody forces players to kill children even if they are there.
SJW? I dont get it.
Exaggerated opinion and action against a matter.
 
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I didn't mean anything beyond what I wrote. I never pretended to understand what the issue is. That particular remark form Anomines seemed misplaced, as one should (ideally) either voice their complaints in an understandable fashion, or not voice them at all.
If there is an issue, I'm sure we can work towards finding some solution.

Im sorry, but they dont seem misplaced if one has actually read the pdf instead of checking how professional it might look aesthetically. I know that judging so many maps is incredibly hard work and takes a lot of time and effort. Mistakes can be made and not all judging can be fair, also due to the lack of time. Thats why there are/should be more different judges so misjudgments can be compensated.

But judging a map with 0 points in all areas because of a subjective personal problem is just a joke. Adding the last sentence in the pdf is simply an insult to me and my work and serves nothing but the ego of the author. What does he imply with that last sentence, that I support child abuse? Should this be some kind of political heroic action?

I would have ruled it as a very disrespectful and distasteful move with a map that was way beyond substandard and wouldnt have won anyways, but I mind you that the other judge placed Gold Port on a shared 5th/6th place of the ranking. Also the public poll had the map on the shared 3d/4th place.

Yes, this it what I call highly unprofessional.
 
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I think there was to little time for everyone takin part and organizing this event.

Therefore u missed the chance to create something for blizzard acknowledgeble. the maps picked now, are not playable on a competetive level. You will not see any of these in any serious 1v1 melee tournament in the future.
But some of the maps couldve been picked for such tournaments imo, f.e. rivulet. But now the maps will never be seen/found/get highlighted.
Maybe i misunderstood the meaning of this contest, but isnt it to get your maps somewhat "fame"? If so, there is something odd about these balance points and i dont think why the poll should be only shown to hive workshop community members and why creativity, terraining and uniqueness even plays a role in the judgings.

Will be fun to watch the cup and to see what the pros have to say about picked maps they have to play on or if they just ban the new maps and we see northern isles over and over again :D

anyways, thanks for creating the contest and Iam looking forward to the next one.
 
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how can Logging camp be 4th? do the math
Honestly, I'm confused as well. On one hand, I'm happy for the fourth place (duh), on the other, I don't get how it can be 4th place if remo gave it such score. The best solution, from organizers standpoint, would be to include a table with the scores and all the math that lead to the results.
 
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1-I didn't mean anything beyond what I wrote. I never pretended to understand what the issue is. That particular remark form Anomines seemed misplaced, as one should (ideally) either voice their complaints in an understandable fashion, or not voice them at all.
If there is an issue, I'm sure we can work towards finding some solution.

1- Sorry, I spoke more than I should.
 
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@ometotchtli If you only assess balance and nothing else, you get Echo Isles. Good map, but nothing else.
The scope of 'competitive level' can be extended to include some other concepts besides what BlizzEnt maps and the like suggest. I'm really glad that Logging Camp made it to the prize spots as it enriches the good old melee gameplay with an interesting twist. Too bad Knecht had to remove some of the bridges tho, but ok.
I've taken much pleasure reading deepstrasz' reviews on one of the past melee contests, as he elaborated the issue with Blizz-like maps in details and in regards to each of the entries. A shame that he wasn't judging now, not mentioning @eubz disappearance from the contest judges with no explanation from the organizers whatsoever.

As for what the pro players will say about the maps, there is no certainty that they'll even say something. Unlikely that they'll be asked either.

@deepstrasz There are none. :/
 
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deepstrasz

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Well.....
Of course I'm happy that I won, but I'm also feeling kinda confused.
I guess I'll take a few days before I comment any further.
Not sure exactly what you mean, so I might be misunderstanding, but if you have something to say, do it when the time is right otherwise credibility after the prizes are given would be null.
 
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But the very biggest issue with this map is the spawning at the starting locations. Given the map symmetry we only
get at least somewhat symmetrical and thus fair conditions if both players start at the most southern starting
positions or both at the most northern starting positions with the latter being the most fair.
So I started this map twenty times, entered "iseedeadpeople" and made a list of which combinations of starting
positions happened how often and it came up to four times both spawned at the two southern starting positions,
eight times both spawned at the two western starting positions and again eight times both spawned at the two
eastern starting positions and never the mentioned most fair spawn and also never in cross positions like
northwest and southeast.
As much as I hate to say it since this is a pretty map and it reminded me in so many ways of my own current map
project and it was the map I spent clearly the most time with in this review but this map is just unfair and
imbalanced and thus unplayable.
AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
Where the fuck did you find this guy.
This is worse than the last contest jesus christ.
 
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@Nudl9 So mine was. 'Some mushrooms don't fit. Random dogshit, 1.1/10.'
A whole fucking week of work.
It would also seem that aesthetic preferences impacted Balance and Creativeness scores as no other comments suggested otherwise. Besides an unverified claim about Blademaster, that is.
Many of the concepts or terrain features were not even mentioned. Generalizing claims supported by a miscalculation (!).
I'd say he only spent about 10 minutes on this one while being sleep deprived due to the timeframes. Understandable, but unacceptable at the same time.

Really, I've uploaded my entry with all its inherent and hand-made flaws in mind. But I would at least hope for a fair assessment and review. For myself and everyone else equally. This unprofessional and value-flashing one-off essay is a fucking offense to labor!
 
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@Nudl9 So mine was. 'Some mushrooms don't fit. Random dogshit, 1.1/10.'
A whole fucking week of work.
It would also seem that aesthetic preferences impacted Balance and Creativeness scores as no other comments suggested otherwise. Besides an unverified claim about Blademaster, that is.
Many of the concepts or terrain features were not even mentioned. Generalizing claims supported by a miscalculation (!).
I'd say he only spent about 10 minutes on this one while being sleep deprived due to the timeframes. Understandable, but unacceptable at the same time.

Really, I've uploaded my entry with all its inherent and hand-made flaws in mind. But I would at least hope for a fair assessment and review. For myself and everyone else equally. This unprofessional and value-flashing one-off essay is a fucking offense to labor!


What do you want me to say?
I'm beyond arguments at this point.
You found another judge with no background and let him go autist mode.
Just look at that fucking .pdf essay.
You could summarize most maps in 10 notes.

be calm, use politly arguments.



I only questioning what its was written. I dont mind who write it, I dont want to offend anybody, but I feel that some points are very subjetive for a melee map review.

A cience lesson, but wait, this is warcraft 3, were there is magic .
Who said that water in WC3 has to be identical to real life??, or leaves.
What is the density of Ice mixed with fel inside???
What is the density of Ice mixed with mana inside??
This review is like a cience exam of warcraft.
so you cant put ice tiles in shallow water, thats the lesson to be lerned?
I understand the Moonspark had the same review about this.

upload_2019-10-11_13-10-42.png


And I want to explain something: when water melts the ice bellow remains frozen, see how Antartida is melting and having ponds. And Permafrost: is hard to melt, water can be above it.
And Leaves can sink as everything else, there are water plants in the botton of a pond. So what because I put a lot of effort in page down doodads, I get this downscore.

upload_2019-10-11_13-14-2.png


Wich is a ladder map that reach Blizzard!!, So if looks like Northern Isles is bad??. That argument cant be a valid one.


upload_2019-10-11_13-25-56.png


Why metion Reforged?. Not true, they end in small water ponds.
Wich I recognice I could have done better, but this is not a terraining contest, and I also had time lacking as everybody that started a map from 0.
I put a huge effort in all the map. So by minor mistakes I get half score reduced.
Sad to see that less terrained effort and less doodads effort may give more score it seems.

upload_2019-10-11_13-20-14.png


upload_2019-10-11_13-21-44.png


1) Not single comment about game play. while the aim of the contest should have been game play and balance. This is just repeat what was written in the terrain topic.
2) the review ends in a comparison saying my map is worse than Northern Island Blizzard Map.
3) The theme is Ice trolls dominating the lands of Northrend, with their magic, with their beastbreaders skills.
And why not trolls can have a couple of ships and burn stuff.

upload_2019-10-11_13-32-50.png


So there cant be a skeleton orc in northrend. Or a Dark troll. or some sludges. You should see WOW (world of warcraft) more.
ICC-Northred creeps are very un-balanced, like dragons, dragonkins, faceless terrors, nerubians
. So creeps of other tiles helps to keep the balance and have creep diversity.
Northredn hasnt many balanced formulas or is troll based or tuskar based. Rest of creeps will affect balance somehow.

If I put a forest troll priest ,or a dark troll priest is because they have different skills.
put all frost troll priest means all camps have frost armor.
and there is a level, I have a level 4 revenant with blizzard and I need a level 3 revenant with no skills, I have no other choise but the revenant of tides level 3.


upload_2019-10-11_15-25-10.png

1) Creeps that doest fit the theme shouldnt be considered as a balance issue.
2) Drakkari = trolls of northrend = trolls focus.
3) only seals, thats bad? they are easy to spot.

I also think that mention my map in others reviews is not profesional.

I can not stand that a review points my map is bad:
as comparison mentioning Northern Island is a bad map because it lacks theme, and ice-and land is random.

Northern Island is a map to be praised, it got ladder and it will be used in this Hive Cup.

sorry I really need it to discharge...



Nice to see that 4 good maps will be used.
 

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Level 24
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I got hard negative review for doing a random spawn style type of map.
You have maps in the competitive pool with random spawn style maps: TM, TR.
Which are two of the most belowed (and sometimes hated) maps generally speaking.
It's the one of the things people have been requesting me whenever i post on reddit/wc3.
These maps would basicly throw symmetric balance in favor of forcing players to adapt.
Or if i were to put it: the big brain maps, where boys become men.

The rest is really just obsessing over detail work, the map being slightly asymmetric, personal details we don't need to know. Mostly just focusing on negative aspects instead of looking at the positive aspects and reviewing the map as a whole. Which is how you review a melee map duh. That's not even mentioning the item drops LOL.

I'm convinced after reading that he has autism. The glaring obession with details, was there ever a part where he viewed maps as a whole? Inability to use suspense of disbelief when it comes to creeps, tilesets, doodads, etc. Lack of imagination/fantasy is a common autism trait. Inserting himself when not necessary, nobody cares if you had AN IDEA for a similar concept.

That's not even mentioning his review on anomine's gold port rofl.
 

Shar Dundred

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Reading (chunks of) that pdf review did give me a good laugh.
Now, where is the real review?

I mean, seriously, just... why?
I am not saying that the winner maps are bad but... how did that review get an all green signal
for the contest to be published? How and why did that happen?

The treatment of the entry made by Anomines alone is already unprofessional beyond comprehension.
I am baffled how this is supposed to be considered proper judging.
 
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@WolfFarkas You see, I am a reasonable person. And I am respectful, where it's due. But you gotta understand that not only this is a case of blatant disregard for a number of entries, including mine, but that it is no longer reasonable to remain polite as you will likely not be heard either way. Something has to be said on behalf of the organizers, @Landmine . There's little space left for meaningful actions, as the qualifiers will start tomorrow. Regardless of that, the responsibility has to be taken. And Gold Port should be reassessed or its assessment should be based on the remaining valid review, or a score for their lack of.
 
Level 29
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@WolfFarkas You see, I am a reasonable person. And I am respectful, where it's due. But you gotta understand that not only this is a case of blatant disregard for a number of entries, including mine, but that it is no longer reasonable to remain polite as you will likely not be heard either way. Something has to be said on behalf of the organizers, @Landmine . There's little space left for meaningful actions, as the qualifiers will start tomorrow. Regardless of that, the responsibility has to be taken. And Gold Port should be reassessed or its assessment should be based on the remaining valid review, or a score for their lack of.

I meant to avoid bad words as fuc...
 

deepstrasz

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Yeah but the issue is not laughable. It's pretty serious even for a hobby. Anomines really worked for this with love like everyone else, time which he could've used for something else that would have actually made a difference.
 
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After much discussion and deliberation, as well as correcting an error I had made in my original calculations, the winners of the contest have changed. I'm sorry for making an error in my calculations, and we have made the ruling that we will only consider the 1 Gold Port score (assuming the map will change the critters). My sincere apologies to Wayshan for accidentally causing his map to be omitted from the winners, and Knecht for accidentally being placed among the winners for an error I made.

Here are the new results, also fixed in the original post:
  1. Brightwater Oasis - @mafe
  2. Northwatch Hold - @Wayshan
  3. A 3-way tie between Uther's Slumber, Ruins of Azshara, and Gold Port by @adamcg, @JaleVeliki, and @Anomines
The new scoring is available in this Google Sheet, also provided in the original post. The new scoring of Gold Port has all 3rd place maps within 0.1% of each other, and is the reason behind the decision.

All this new information is reflected in the original post.
 

deepstrasz

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I would sugest:
No one forced anybody to make new maps only those who had none made and wanted to participate.

First is a first and we should turn a blind eye?

Justice be made because Anomines wrote never again and that might actually stay that way.

All this new information is reflected in the original post.
Call me stupid but what is there to be done with the ties?
 
Level 29
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Don't expect me to do the same. You have a reputation for it.

Now my post is out of context.

ok ,They were silly sugestions, silly enough to be deleted, what else do you want me to say?


"You have a reputation for it."

edit: please...Do not speak of myself in that way.
There was no need to call some mistakes I did in other posts here.
 
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deepstrasz

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Also I want to say a sidenote: You are not killing children in that map, you are killing a model made out of polies and has got a picture that contains hand drawn pixels(that is killable in the core game that's why the map is a melee map right?) in a game from 2002.
It is a depiction of a child nevertheless. Humans are not robots.

The point is since this "issue" is not a balance related one and neither a blatant hatred attack on something, he should have just recommended the removal/replacement of those units or do it himself instead of creating unnecessary and wild drama. The review could have mentioned this aspect and no points should have been deducted.
However, this still doesn't explain why animal (critter) killing is OK.
 
It is a depiction of a child nevertheless. Humans are not robots.

The point is since this "issue" is not a balance related one and neither a blatant hatred attack on something, he should have just recommended the removal/replacement of those units or do it himself instead of creating unnecessary and wild drama. The review could have mentioned this aspect and no points should have been deducted.
However, this still doesn't explain why animal (critter) killing is OK.

Yes also we are basically genociding peasants too in every melee game
 
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