deepstrasz
Map Reviewer
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2009
- Messages
- 20,219
No because there is not sufficient context for that.Yes also we are basically genociding humans too in every melee game
No because there is not sufficient context for that.Yes also we are basically genociding humans too in every melee game
I think at this point Hive must make sure that he'll never be the judge again I mean if you comapre Remo's 34 with his 9(NINE) it still shows how unjusticely the judging was done by his sideQuality judging.
I think at this point Hive must make sure that he'll never be the judge again I mean if you comapre Remo's 34 with his 9(NINE) it still shows how unjusticely the judging was done by his side
Are children invulnerable in the wc3 campaign, or are we holding the participants to some higher, undisclosed rule, we don't even hold Blizzard to?
Nudl9, could you please chill? We understand that you're unhappy. Personal insults will not do any good at this point. (You might even regret those, once you've a colder head.)No, just judge being stupid.
I don't care, somebody has to say it.Nudl9, could you please chill? We understand that you're unhappy. Personal insults will not do any good at this point.
Preach it.Im not 13 any more and creating maps for contests like this is actually quite a lot of work if you take it seriously.
I'm not sure what to expect of this site really, it's like the first volunteer gets picked without question and it's always that one person with too much freetime.
I made a formal complaint last time in the admin section, but that obviously didn't work did it?If you want the change, be the change! Also please avoid labeling and personal attacks. Let's try to keep the discussion civilized.
As you can see there's no need for superfluous wording. If i like the map then all i need to do is write a few comments about the things i like and dislike. If i have any concerns regarding balance, then you could forward it to a team of testers and ask them to break the map. Item drop balance isn't all that important in my opinion unless it's like a free sale on charged3 items or something like that. Xander gave me negative score for item drops that i copypasted creep+drops from TM lol.#1 I like the pier. Good focal point.
#2 Maybe shops are too close? not sure if theres balance issues here. Could stock up x4 healing scrolls and then push. (Expressing concern.)
#3 Good terrain texture
#4 Good variation in terrain height
#5 Maybe expansions are too close to each other? Orange mine > Red mine fast creeping. (Expressing concern.)
#6 Lots of space to hide proxies for NE, this is something i really enjoy.
#7 If you pressure expansion and lose hero, the tavern is a little close. Allowing players to respawn heroes instantly and not get punished. Maybe move tavern a little towards center. (Expressing concern.)
#8 I feel like map name could be more exciting. I didn't know what Rivulet meant until i googled it. (Expressing concern.)
Not much else to say, map looks great, it feels organic. I'd play it and wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a favourite.
Maybe it is not necessary to judge all the maps to the core and make a multilevel system where judges/map reviewers only really review the top 6 (or so) maps. For maps that didnt make the ranking a simple +/- list with a few hints what can be done better would probably also do.
I don't think it's hard to process all the maps down to a few favorites and then spend more time on those.
The judging have always been too heavy handed with unrealistic expectations.
Honestly people should have learned and reworked the format when Wtii was judge and said it took a lot of time.
I don't think it's hard to process all the maps down to a few favorites and then spend more time on those.
Personally i think you could just do with a short but sweet format, like here's an example which only took me a 15~ minutes.
As you can see there's no need for superfluous wording. If i like the map then all i need to do is write a few comments about the things i like and dislike. If i have any concerns regarding balance, then you could forward it to a team of testers and ask them to break the map. Item drop balance isn't all that important in my opinion unless it's like a free sale on charged3 items or something like that. Xander gave me negative score for item drops that i copypasted creep+drops from TM lol.
There is no clear standard.If two ways of attack (and scout) maps are good??,
and I was thinking that 3 ways of attack are standard??
and very open expanding bases (where your peons may be killed very easy from many ways and Advantage to NE) are good?
Like-dislike=/=objectivity. To paraphrase you: "no one cares about what idea you had".If i like the map then all i need to do is write a few comments about the things i like and dislike.
I'm not sure anymore what your aim is, either the pro scene or the beginner?Which is why Twisted Meadows can be seen as an intimidating map for new players because it offers so many options and places importance on scouting.
So no, linear maps aren't bad.
Both.I'm not sure anymore what your aim is, either the pro scene or the beginner?
There's only so and so much you can objectively judge: bugs would be the first and balance is already in subjective territory. The layout largely comes down to taste and subjectivity. It's like Wtii said in his review "i know what i'm looking for in a map, sorta flowing paths, oval shapes, etc". That's a subjective statement. Wtii is also a fan of fountains for 4v4 maps, that's subjective. Where someone like Remo probably hates fountains. Pro players are for example more conservative and dislike non-convential creeps that ain't trolls and ogres. That's why it's important to know who the judges are, because then you can tailor towards the judges tastes. For example last contest i knew that Hi2chaco likes gimmicks, so i expected to get points for having a potion of speed static drop, which i did get points for.Like-dislike=/=objectivity. To paraphrase you: "no one cares about what idea you had".
So Xanders Points are Cancled now or??? so are there different winners again ??.
Way to be original and have a back bone.That's why it's important to know who the judges are, because then you can tailor towards the judges tastes. For example last contest i knew that Hi2chaco likes gimmicks, so i expected to get points for having a potion of speed static drop, which i did get points for.
Hey guys, I have not been a judge before, so I'm sorry if I didn't do it the 'proper' way. I agree, just giving a final score and no explanation is a little weird. So I'm gonna be posting some details as to my thoughts behind the scores here (in the next few days).
As to the situation with my fellow judge; I would ask everyone to try to be understanding. I get that there was some frustration here (on both sides) because of the events that transpired. Xander felt very strongly about the issue. Felt that there definitely was something wrong about having something like that in a map. And whether you agree with him or not, the thing that stands out to me is that he wanted to do what he believed was right. Which I think is what we all want to do.
At the same time I certainly also understand Anomines' frustration. And that he felt kind of cheated.
I am a little saddened that this has all turned rather ugly the last couple of hours. And I hope that we can turn a corner toward something more positive. We still had a fun contest with a lot of good entries. And we will be seeing them being showcased very soon in the tournament (which I'm very much looking forward to).
Solo justice isn't a thing anymore unless you want to go outlaw.As to the situation with my fellow judge; I would ask everyone to try to be understanding. I get that there was some frustration here (on both sides) because of the events that transpired. Xander felt very strongly about the issue. Felt that there definitely was something wrong about having something like that in a map. And whether you agree with him or not, the thing that stands out to me is that he wanted to do what he believed was right. Which I think is what we all want to do.
It's because there are a lot of spambot accounts which need to be filtered.I also would like to point to the HIVEWORKSHOP, that: new users post need moderator approve, really harms the flow of information. This was posted yesterday, but approved today.
and it also happened that a new user made a question in the hive cup, and has to wait approved, seriously, other sites doesnt have this system.
Solo justice isn't a thing anymore unless you want to go outlaw.
The thing is, when delicate things ensue, you should talk it over with the other judges, contest moderator/organizer, site staff, even the contestant etc. You don't backstab and then expect to be compassionately understood.
It's because there are a lot of spambot accounts which need to be filtered.
Not also when logging in, that would annoy the heck out of most.when registration or even login, put a image puzzle to solve. I dont mind solve a image puzzle of cars to login(thats how is done in other pages).
Out of all this drama, my biggest question and disappointment in the finality of this situation is: why Northwatch Hold?
Affinity for Sunken temple tileset and mediocre maps? Has anyone ever taken the time to check distances and shapes? Does anyone care about / understand good aesthetics? What are those innovations on this map that we haven't seen before? Can someone make me a list so that I can understand? As far as I can see:
Is uses the exact same creep camp composition (hydra switched for disguise) with the exact same item drop ('used as inspiration' from the contest Ruins of Azshara map, also a LV version present in this contest), with rune of the watcher to give vision to the path, as well as the exact Level-2-Power-up distribution (30-30-30-5-5) among creeps in the same fashion as on my melee contest entry and winner Ruins of Azshara which I changed for the LV version because the patch that reworked item drops is now active and the balance is off for the old map.
It that innovation? What else am I missing besides the undefined theme and random, unintuitive layout of the map? I disagree with the score. But I request no changes and would only like to encourage mapmakers to take a closer look at that map and compare.
It makes me sad how few individuals have a mission to find the very best competitive maps and bring them to the public and general player base, eventually to ladder, helping to bring the most out of the community to improve Warcraft3 and Reforged. Do we really have no one? No one whose heart yearns for some fresh strategies and some new eye candy in the map pool which can be implemented almost immediately? Xander was one of those at least. I see some people here on Hive trying to make strong arguments and are fighting the good fight, against the passiveness and staleness. What about others? Judges should be those people, or at least I hoped they would. With the lack of judges (which is actually the root problem of this contest, since we should have about 4-5 judges that care and the contest itself is fine), the overall score is really a subjective review of one person.
If this is what the players here on Hive (and elsewhere) wished? Do they care? Does anybody?
I thank those involved for handling this contest and the judges, congratulate the winners and participants (work on maps more, submit, publish please!) and B2W for organizing the cup that is closely approaching! I hope that we get more passion and involvement for Wacraft3 revival and refinement within the community.
@WolfFarkas mhh mabye but seems like its to late now cuz the cup alrady started and they are not changing the maps![]()
He wrote he'll give some feedback for each map in the following days.1) ask Remodemo if he still wants to judge , or quit
First, a calculation issue, then the issue with the judging and now one judge remaining?how come that winners changed 3 times in 2 days
He wrote he'll give some feedback for each map in the following days.
First, a calculation issue, then the issue with the judging and now one judge remaining?
Maybe W3Sour's gonna do it: Hive Workshop Cup Melee Mapping Contest - Resultsyes but he said that when XanderD was still judge. now we have only 1 judge.
@WolfFarkas well i just made it to see it playtested by good players i dont care about win reputation points or so i just wanted to see it played
There's nothing wrong with that.Way to be original and have a back bone.
If it's the judges contestants have to satisfy and not melee, then I guess I've been living under a rock and probably still will.
Yes I can be a judge again, but for the next contest. @Jale ... I was pushing hard 1 year ago for new maps, and got Northern Isles, Swamped and Synergy all from Hive on the mappool. I'll push again for Reforged. Once I take a closer look at these maps, I'll again make suggestions to Kam to add some fresh life into the mappool once more.
Seems nobody likes the scoring system, or at least want to see the math done for each map, which I 100% support
ok that makes more senseJust explaining the situation to @FatJonah
is not that we dont like the score system , the site has Arena Rules, and judges guides to follow. But I have faith that in the end, things may be fixed more or less.
Arena - Rules And Guide
Judge Guide