Hive Workshop Cup Melee Mapping Contest - Results

[deepstrasz]

Yes also we are basically genociding humans too in every melee game

No because there is not sufficient context for that.

 

[Nudl9]

Quality judging.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@YourArthas
Site Rules
No discrimination please.


Why does everybody seem to be hurt by the truth?

ok, sorry for over-react to your comment, may re-ask again, can you please dont make points about my person in this thread.
I dont think my mistakes in other threads (wich I apologiced there) should be discussed here, it seems off-topic.

 

[YourArthas]

Quality judging.

I think at this point Hive must make sure that he'll never be the judge again I mean if you comapre Remo's 34 with his 9(NINE) it still shows how unjusticely the judging was done by his side

 

[Nudl9]

Yeah well, this isn't the first time.
At this point i'm done, the contests are a joke.

 

[WolfFarkas]

I think at this point Hive must make sure that he'll never be the judge again I mean if you comapre Remo's 34 with his 9(NINE) it still shows how unjusticely the judging was done by his side

with all respects to Remo, but a judging that is just numbers and no text, is not exactly what a judge should do acording the
Judge Guide

something minimal as this (I would expected, it can be short if the time to review is also short):

+) Good terrain mix
+) good items drops overall
+) Good neutral buildings positions

-) expandings are to easy for humans.
-) map has no critters for undead to rise skeletons.
-) map lacks trees in the center, important for NE owl scouts and Keeper of the Grove Play.

 

[Wayshan]

Alright, I am a bit confused.

First of all thanks to the judges for their kind words. It made me happy to see myself in the second place, and I do indeed selfishly think it is deservedly so. Yet the way how this all had happened makes me almost feel bad about this success.

I would like this debate to be a bit more polite, BUT I do understand the frustration. I would also like to state that I disapprove of the judge's handling of the @Anomines ' Gold Port, which is certainly a great map in many regards. The children's situation should have been addressed to the author, who would be certainly willing to replace/delete incriminated models. The contest rules stated nothing about the usage of any models and therefore XanderDorn's harsh and melodramatic judgment IMHO directly violates rules of the contest. And it left a bad taste in mouths of many of the involved.

It would be great to hear some counterarguments from the judges later on when they get some rest. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to clear our heads before this gets too edgy & personal.

To end on a brighter note... I'd like to congratulate @mafe , @adamcg , @JaleVeliki & Anomines for their fine results and also to everyone else who took part - for the courage and effort. I am sure those news maps refreshed the melee map pool and allowed us to evolve as mapmakers. I know mine certainly did.

Suggestion to organisers: this thread should be linked with the contest thread itself. More ellaborate and more explanative review of RemoDemo would be appreciated. It really feels weird to have a 50 paged PDF on one side and raw numbers on the other.

 

[The_Silent]

Are children invulnerable in the wc3 campaign, or are we holding the participants to some higher standard than we hold blizzard to?

We cannot hold participants to undisclosed rules. That is not fair play.

Rules can change, but participants should be given time to adept then.

 

[Nudl9]

No, just judge being stupid.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Are children invulnerable in the wc3 campaign, or are we holding the participants to some higher, undisclosed rule, we don't even hold Blizzard to?

1) no, the campaign was ment to save one, but I think you can kill them. Perhaps game controls were not that hard in 2002.
In skyrim, you can not kill childrens, they are invulnerables.
2) the problem has been solved, considering only Remodemo scoring.

 

[Nightmare2077]

No, just judge being stupid.

Nudl9, could you please chill? We understand that you're unhappy. Personal insults will not do any good at this point. (You might even regret those, once you've a colder head.)

 

[IcemanBo]

What the fuck. Good that people invested time for arena guidelines.

 

[remodemo]

Hey guys, I have not been a judge before, so I'm sorry if I didn't do it the 'proper' way. I agree, just giving a final score and no explanation is a little weird. So I'm gonna be posting some details as to my thoughts behind the scores here (in the next few days).

As to the situation with my fellow judge; I would ask everyone to try to be understanding. I get that there was some frustration here (on both sides) because of the events that transpired. Xander felt very strongly about the issue. Felt that there definitely was something wrong about having something like that in a map. And whether you agree with him or not, the thing that stands out to me is that he wanted to do what he believed was right. Which I think is what we all want to do.

At the same time I certainly also understand Anomines' frustration. And that he felt kind of cheated.

I am a little saddened that this has all turned rather ugly the last couple of hours. And I hope that we can turn a corner toward something more positive. We still had a fun contest with a lot of good entries. And we will be seeing them being showcased very soon in the tournament (which I'm very much looking forward to).

 

[Nudl9]

Nudl9, could you please chill? We understand that you're unhappy. Personal insults will not do any good at this point.

I don't care, somebody has to say it.
Complacency won't bring about change.
I said it the last contest too, find a quality judge, pick someone that understands melee.
Instead i get judged by an idiot who's not even familiar with the map pool standards.
I'm not sure what to expect of this site really, it's like the first volunteer gets picked without question and it's always that one person with too much freetime.
It's a complete waste of my time, everyone else's and most of all the judge in question wrote a 48-page essay.

Im not 13 any more and creating maps for contests like this is actually quite a lot of work if you take it seriously.

Preach it.

 

[Wayshan]

I'm not sure what to expect of this site really, it's like the first volunteer gets picked without question and it's always that one person with too much freetime.

Maybe you should apply as a judge then. If you want the change, be the change! Also please avoid labeling and personal attacks. Let's try to keep the discussion civilized.

 

[Nudl9]

How should i apply when i don't know there's a contest going on?
I already gave input to most of the maps in the contest and i mentioned anytime i had a certain bias.

If you want the change, be the change! Also please avoid labeling and personal attacks. Let's try to keep the discussion civilized.

I made a formal complaint last time in the admin section, but that obviously didn't work did it?
I asked for judges to be high level players.

Like how hard is it to get a decent judge?
Is it too hard to ask for a 75%+ player to judge the maps?

Lets do a review of the judges background instead:
-Remodemo, generally rounds about T3 tournaments IE middling performance, with no wins to speak - casting is mainly play-by-play, because B2W has no analyst.
I said this before, but watching/casting games = doesn't make you better at melee. B2W lacks depth when it comes to casting and it's very surface based. Which is why the best casters are usually former high-level players (Dota's Purge for example or SSBM's Scar). You can sort of see it here (1) where Remo's suggestion don't add up with how players view of the game. There's a clear disjoint.

-XanderDom, mapmaker?
Literally who, no maps, nothing to show for. Most likely friends vouching for friends to judge.

-Eubz, mapmaker (was mentioned in the doc)
Nothing to speak of except lots of small altered melee maps. Not sure if he even did anything.

 

[Anomines]

I´m happy that there was this discussion here and it didnt just fade away


Of course I am also happy that Gold Port is now one of the winning maps but it still leaves a bitter taste to me since it kinda feels like I swindled my way into the rankings. Therefore Im quite sorry for the people who lost their placings like @Knecht and especially @Nudl9 who basically had the same ranking like me but didn´t receive the same XanderDorn treatment. Also of course all the other participants who received bad scores and strange reviews.


Its also good that future practices of judging will be discussed since this way just doesnt seem to work. The main reason might lie in the unbelivable amount of work that is required to do as a judge. Maybe it is not necessary to judge all the maps to the core and make a multilevel system where judges/map reviewers only really review the top 6 (or so) maps. For maps that didnt make the ranking a simple +/- list with a few hints what can be done better would probably also do.
Maybe get 2-3 decent players like remo for this top 6 maps and let them rate with numbers only (like done here). I would rather have halfway decent players just giving numbers than a mapmaker with no melee experience write essays. This way one might also find judges easier.


Anyway, - I updated Gold Port for now and replaced the children with critters. Guess this makes life easier

 

[Wayshan]

I don't feel like you need to be tier 1 player to be able to recognize what is and what isn't a good map. But I completely agree that the judges should be picked more carefully.

 

[Nudl9]

The judging have always been too heavy handed with unrealistic expectations.
Honestly people should have learned and reworked the format when Wtii was judge and said it took a lot of time.
I don't think it's hard to process all the maps down to a few favorites and then spend more time on those.

Personally i think you could just do with a short but sweet format, like here's an example which only took me a 15~ minutes.

#1 I like the pier. Good focal point.
#2 Maybe shops are too close? not sure if theres balance issues here. Could stock up x4 healing scrolls and then push. (Expressing concern.)
#3 Good terrain texture
#4 Good variation in terrain height
#5 Maybe expansions are too close to each other? Orange mine > Red mine fast creeping. (Expressing concern.)
#6 Lots of space to hide proxies for NE, this is something i really enjoy.
#7 If you pressure expansion and lose hero, the tavern is a little close. Allowing players to respawn heroes instantly and not get punished. Maybe move tavern a little towards center. (Expressing concern.)
#8 I feel like map name could be more exciting. I didn't know what Rivulet meant until i googled it. (Expressing concern.)
Not much else to say, map looks great, it feels organic. I'd play it and wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a favourite.

As you can see there's no need for superfluous wording. If i like the map then all i need to do is write a few comments about the things i like and dislike. If i have any concerns regarding balance, then you could forward it to a team of testers and ask them to break the map. Item drop balance isn't all that important in my opinion unless it's like a free sale on charged3 items or something like that. Xander gave me negative score for item drops that i copypasted creep+drops from TM lol.

 

[Wayshan]

Maybe it is not necessary to judge all the maps to the core and make a multilevel system where judges/map reviewers only really review the top 6 (or so) maps. For maps that didnt make the ranking a simple +/- list with a few hints what can be done better would probably also do.

I don't think it's hard to process all the maps down to a few favorites and then spend more time on those.

I agree. Though here the issue was the time in general. I am unsure whether it would be possible to properly judge even 6 maps in this time window.

 

[WolfFarkas]

discharge

Even if XanderD review may be subjetive, or unfair (with Gold Port issue). I want to defend that:
But at least he wrote something, at least he wrote a lot,so we can question or critic.

But I want to point that RemoDemo review (shure did a great job, and effort, but):
the raw numbers with-no text really worries me, there is no info we can check or consider.
Terrain score? Balance score? , also reviews helps users to understand what is good and what is bad.

Those maps were done by top mappers, 2 of those users won previous contest, and their score is very low, similar to users who submited their first map or second (please no offense). (those maps were in my top 6) and I am seeing them in the 16-18 places.

Logging camp did very good in the poll, I dont think it was for his monocolor brownish dry enviroment, but balance.

Northfall Isles , perhaps 6 expandings is to much, 4 is better, but I dont remember anothers flaws, something about orcs,

Capital Island, the only flaw I remember, is that lacks of doodads for his terrain. Cigaro also always focus in balance first.

while I dont disagree with some scores, some text explaining the numbers should exist to know what happened?

as Nudl9 map got 70 score from R and 38 from X

happened that Knetch got 38 from R and 84 from X

how come such discrepancy??

By fortune 4 maps are going to be used are good.

Uther Slumber map: how you protect your peons in the expanding mines of that map??
shure it was fun in 2009,(when Filmting didnt write her melee tutorial yet), and is very nice map, but 2019, there are basis for expading goldmines shape...

The judging have always been too heavy handed with unrealistic expectations.
Honestly people should have learned and reworked the format when Wtii was judge and said it took a lot of time.
I don't think it's hard to process all the maps down to a few favorites and then spend more time on those.

Personally i think you could just do with a short but sweet format, like here's an example which only took me a 15~ minutes.


As you can see there's no need for superfluous wording. If i like the map then all i need to do is write a few comments about the things i like and dislike. If i have any concerns regarding balance, then you could forward it to a team of testers and ask them to break the map. Item drop balance isn't all that important in my opinion unless it's like a free sale on charged3 items or something like that. Xander gave me negative score for item drops that i copypasted creep+drops from TM lol.

I dont care the pier focal point or the map name, or if the markets may be a bit close. The issue is that map has a pond in the center converting it in a 2-ways of attack map (and walk around the center). And a 2 ways of attack map be the second better map acording to one judge...and the best in the poll?
The tavern goes in the midle for some reason, and if not do a map like Moonspark (please I ment no offense to anybody, I also think is a nice map, I like the ponds to divide paths, and small map = a lot of early PVP).

I cant also stand that Ruins of Azhara (winner of the 2nd contest) got less score against a 2-ways of attack map, and got 4 points more compared to another 2 ways of attack map.

If two ways of attack (and scout) maps are good??,
and I was thinking that 3 ways of attack are standard??
and very open expanding bases (where your peons may be killed very easy from many ways and Advantage to NE) are good?

then I really apology for my ignorance and writting all this(I mean it seriusly).

I also sorry for this un-called second discharge from my part. But I really need it to take it out of my system (I think I am empty now, so I think I can promise no-more discharges from my part, I will try the most).

Edit: and is not that I am un-happy with the fate of my map. It shouldnt have been used in a money-prize tournament. I would have veto it with many reasons(for balance reasons, not enviroment or theme).

 

[Nudl9]

If two ways of attack (and scout) maps are good??,
and I was thinking that 3 ways of attack are standard??
and very open expanding bases (where your peons may be killed very easy from many ways and Advantage to NE) are good?

There is no clear standard.
There are open maps like Twisted Meadows and then there are closed maps like Last Refuge.
Making a map linear can be good to create beginner friendly enviroments.
It's easier for players to work within the constraints of that enviroment because there are less options.
It's sort of like when you're asked to write a story from scratch, it's hard to come up with anything, but when you're given a theme - suddenly your creativity is loose with ideas.
Which is why Twisted Meadows can be seen as an intimidating map for new players because it offers so many options and places importance on scouting.
So no, linear maps aren't bad.

 

[W3Sour]

Uhh... So I'm glad XanderDorn's review became void, because his review was disturbing.
I ended up speaking to him privately about why he gave Anomines 0, just because I couldn't believe if he was joking or serious.
Unfortunately he was serious, which I found laughable, but extremely disappointing. Anomines put in a tremendous amount of work for his map only
to be shot down by a ridiculous review which stated he was condoning child abuse... An insult to his talent and work and him as a person to be frank

In my opinion the reviewer is extremely narcissistic to bring his own (political) views into this contest, when it's meant to be about the creators work not the reviewer. even if there was 'laws' regarding kids in video games, it's not up to the mapmakers to consider that. That's Blizzard's problem. Trying to correlate a child critter in a mythical based RTS game to real world child abuse is asinine. ALso, IF you had an issue with it it wouldn't be tied into the score, and rendering his balance score to 0 with no additional balancing comments... Give him his proper score and leave your own personal statements at the end briefly without effecting the score.... Because what he did was extremely selfish.
I hope the next contest we can find better judge's who are more objective and stamp about political and personal views regarding someone's work from ever entering this space again.

I implore anomines not be discouraged by the review, and continue creating his great work.

As for the maps, I have yet to go through them all, but congrats to the winners.

 

[Frotty]

I have to agree that the biggest problem here seems to be the contest organization, as @Nudl9 elaborated.

What baffles me is that either Landmine & co didn't read XD's review at all or they read it and were fine with it until it became the main topic of this thread.

Judging is hard, takes time, and the results are often subjective, but this has nothing to do with that.

 

[deepstrasz]

If i like the map then all i need to do is write a few comments about the things i like and dislike.

Like-dislike=/=objectivity. To paraphrase you: "no one cares about what idea you had".

Which is why Twisted Meadows can be seen as an intimidating map for new players because it offers so many options and places importance on scouting.
So no, linear maps aren't bad.

I'm not sure anymore what your aim is, either the pro scene or the beginner?

 

[Folderz]

Many thanks to all mappers. I'll be playing your maps with friends & strangers for years to come. I don't know about competetive much but here are my most Fun With Fellas (F.W.F) award map winners

- shadowfang keep
Superior theme. Dark worgen fort is epic. Real raid the castle game.

- starfish village
Grab zeppelin and build hidden outer kingdom. Heck, unsummon your base and vanish from the map!

- gold port
Be the trademaster of the port city. Pick goblin tinkerer from tavern and feel like Gallywix and the best part be rude to customers!

- lord of the pit
The map name is the objective. Ding! New main quest popped out! Who conquers the pit?

- waves of sandwar
Feels like hero arena. Build altar and couple troops and spar. No tier 2 troops needed here! You could also co-op arena creeps and then have final showdown.

 

[Nudl9]

I'm not sure anymore what your aim is, either the pro scene or the beginner?

Both.
The current map pool is nice because you can veto out the big maps like tm, tr, swamped temple if you're a beginner, but if you're an expert player you can veto out the small ones.
I believe that the map pool should offer something for both demographics.

Like-dislike=/=objectivity. To paraphrase you: "no one cares about what idea you had".

There's only so and so much you can objectively judge: bugs would be the first and balance is already in subjective territory. The layout largely comes down to taste and subjectivity. It's like Wtii said in his review "i know what i'm looking for in a map, sorta flowing paths, oval shapes, etc". That's a subjective statement. Wtii is also a fan of fountains for 4v4 maps, that's subjective. Where someone like Remo probably hates fountains. Pro players are for example more conservative and dislike non-convential creeps that ain't trolls and ogres. That's why it's important to know who the judges are, because then you can tailor towards the judges tastes. For example last contest i knew that Hi2chaco likes gimmicks, so i expected to get points for having a potion of speed static drop, which i did get points for.

 

[SayuriTenshi]

So Xanders Points are Cancled now or??? so are there different winners again ??.

 

[WolfFarkas]

So Xanders Points are Cancled now or??? so are there different winners again ??.

edit: yes, XanderD was fully removed as judge...

Thats what I understand... so far

 

[deepstrasz]

That's why it's important to know who the judges are, because then you can tailor towards the judges tastes. For example last contest i knew that Hi2chaco likes gimmicks, so i expected to get points for having a potion of speed static drop, which i did get points for.

Way to be original and have a back bone.
If it's the judges contestants have to satisfy and not melee, then I guess I've been living under a rock and probably still will.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Hey guys, I have not been a judge before, so I'm sorry if I didn't do it the 'proper' way. I agree, just giving a final score and no explanation is a little weird. So I'm gonna be posting some details as to my thoughts behind the scores here (in the next few days).

As to the situation with my fellow judge; I would ask everyone to try to be understanding. I get that there was some frustration here (on both sides) because of the events that transpired. Xander felt very strongly about the issue. Felt that there definitely was something wrong about having something like that in a map. And whether you agree with him or not, the thing that stands out to me is that he wanted to do what he believed was right. Which I think is what we all want to do.

At the same time I certainly also understand Anomines' frustration. And that he felt kind of cheated.

I am a little saddened that this has all turned rather ugly the last couple of hours. And I hope that we can turn a corner toward something more positive. We still had a fun contest with a lot of good entries. And we will be seeing them being showcased very soon in the tournament (which I'm very much looking forward to).

thanks for writting.

and sorry if I spoke to much or I was repetitive.
But in the same way Anomines had to voice out his situation, to be solved.
I also had to voice out the text-lacking to justify the numeric score.

I also would like to point to the HIVEWORKSHOP, that: new users post need moderator approve, really harms the flow of information. This was posted yesterday, but approved today.

and it also happened that a new user made a question in the hive cup, and has to wait approved, seriously, other sites doesnt have this system.

 

[deepstrasz]

As to the situation with my fellow judge; I would ask everyone to try to be understanding. I get that there was some frustration here (on both sides) because of the events that transpired. Xander felt very strongly about the issue. Felt that there definitely was something wrong about having something like that in a map. And whether you agree with him or not, the thing that stands out to me is that he wanted to do what he believed was right. Which I think is what we all want to do.

Solo justice isn't a thing anymore unless you want to go outlaw.
The thing is, when delicate things ensue, you should talk it over with the other judges, contest moderator/organizer, site staff, even the contestant etc. You don't backstab and then expect to be compassionately understood.

I also would like to point to the HIVEWORKSHOP, that: new users post need moderator approve, really harms the flow of information. This was posted yesterday, but approved today.

and it also happened that a new user made a question in the hive cup, and has to wait approved, seriously, other sites doesnt have this system.

It's because there are a lot of spambot accounts which need to be filtered.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Solo justice isn't a thing anymore unless you want to go outlaw.
The thing is, when delicate things ensue, you should talk it over with the other judges, contest moderator/organizer, site staff, even the contestant etc. You don't backstab and then expect to be compassionately understood.


It's because there are a lot of spambot accounts which need to be filtered.

I think his response if, he wrotes one, will need moderator approve= may not be show till tomorrow.


when registration or even login, put a image puzzle to solve. I dont mind solve a image puzzle of cars to login(thats how is done in other pages, and you dont need moderators to be busy approving new posts).

 

[deepstrasz]

when registration or even login, put a image puzzle to solve. I dont mind solve a image puzzle of cars to login(thats how is done in other pages).

Not also when logging in, that would annoy the heck out of most.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Guys Guys Guys Guys!!!!!

XanderD was removed as judge, and his pdf deleted!!!

just informing

so yes winners changed. Rivulet should be now a winner map.
2nd best score + highest best poll score.

 

[JaleVeliki]

Out of all this drama, my biggest question and disappointment in the finality of this situation is: why Northwatch Hold on the tourney?

Affinity for Sunken temple tileset and mediocre maps? Has anyone ever taken the time to check distances, chokes, wisp spots? Do people understand good aesthetics? What are those innovations on this map that we haven't seen before? Can someone make me a list so that I can understand better? As far as I can see:

Is uses the exact same creep camp composition (hydra switched for disguise) with the exact same item drop ('used as inspiration' from the contest Ruins of Azshara map, also a LV version present in this contest), with rune of the watcher to give vision to the path, as well as the exact Level-2-Power-up distribution (30-30-30-5-5) among creeps in the same fashion as on my melee contest entry and winner Ruins of Azshara which I changed for the LV version because the patch that reworked item drops is now active and the balance is off for the old map.

It that innovation? What else am I missing besides the undefined theme (random doodads) and weird, unintuitive pve layout of the map? I disagree with the score. But I request no changes and would only like to encourage mapmakers to take a closer look at that map and compare.

It makes me sad how few individuals have a mission to find the very best competitive maps and bring them to the public and general player base, eventually to ladder, helping to bring the most out of the community to improve Warcraft3 and Reforged. No one whose heart yearns for some fresh strategies and some new eye candy in the map pool which can be implemented almost immediately? Xander was one of those at least. What about others? Judges should be those people, or at least I hoped they would. With the lack of number in judges (which is actually the root problem of this contest, since we should have about 4-5 judges that understand since the contest itself is fine), the overall score in the end is really a subjective review of one person (and we need 5 of those subjective reviews).

If this is what the players here on Hive (and elsewhere) wished? Does anybody care?


I thank those involved for handling this contest, thank the judges, congratulate the winners and participants (work on maps more, submit, publish please!) and B2W for organizing the cup that is closely approaching! I hope that we get more passion and involvement for Wacraft3 revival and refinement within the community.

 

[SayuriTenshi]

@WolfFarkas mhh mabye but seems like its to late now cuz the cup alrady started and they are not changing the maps

 

[WolfFarkas]

Out of all this drama, my biggest question and disappointment in the finality of this situation is: why Northwatch Hold?

Affinity for Sunken temple tileset and mediocre maps? Has anyone ever taken the time to check distances and shapes? Does anyone care about / understand good aesthetics? What are those innovations on this map that we haven't seen before? Can someone make me a list so that I can understand? As far as I can see:

Is uses the exact same creep camp composition (hydra switched for disguise) with the exact same item drop ('used as inspiration' from the contest Ruins of Azshara map, also a LV version present in this contest), with rune of the watcher to give vision to the path, as well as the exact Level-2-Power-up distribution (30-30-30-5-5) among creeps in the same fashion as on my melee contest entry and winner Ruins of Azshara which I changed for the LV version because the patch that reworked item drops is now active and the balance is off for the old map.

It that innovation? What else am I missing besides the undefined theme and random, unintuitive layout of the map? I disagree with the score. But I request no changes and would only like to encourage mapmakers to take a closer look at that map and compare.

It makes me sad how few individuals have a mission to find the very best competitive maps and bring them to the public and general player base, eventually to ladder, helping to bring the most out of the community to improve Warcraft3 and Reforged. Do we really have no one? No one whose heart yearns for some fresh strategies and some new eye candy in the map pool which can be implemented almost immediately? Xander was one of those at least. I see some people here on Hive trying to make strong arguments and are fighting the good fight, against the passiveness and staleness. What about others? Judges should be those people, or at least I hoped they would. With the lack of judges (which is actually the root problem of this contest, since we should have about 4-5 judges that care and the contest itself is fine), the overall score is really a subjective review of one person.

If this is what the players here on Hive (and elsewhere) wished? Do they care? Does anybody?


I thank those involved for handling this contest and the judges, congratulate the winners and participants (work on maps more, submit, publish please!) and B2W for organizing the cup that is closely approaching! I hope that we get more passion and involvement for Wacraft3 revival and refinement within the community.

I was the first in say that your map was down-scored, but now there are worst issues who won??

@WolfFarkas mhh mabye but seems like its to late now cuz the cup alrady started and they are not changing the maps

... oh.

 

[deepstrasz]

1) ask Remodemo if he still wants to judge , or quit

He wrote he'll give some feedback for each map in the following days.

how come that winners changed 3 times in 2 days

First, a calculation issue, then the issue with the judging and now one judge remaining?

 

[WolfFarkas]

He wrote he'll give some feedback for each map in the following days.

First, a calculation issue, then the issue with the judging and now one judge remaining?

yes but he said that when XanderD was still judge. now we have only 1 judge.

and the post was waiting for moderator approve.

and there was no oficial anouncement about XanderD being removed as judge, Tenshi pointed it and took me time to detect it.

 

[deepstrasz]

yes but he said that when XanderD was still judge. now we have only 1 judge.

Maybe W3Sour's gonna do it: Hive Workshop Cup Melee Mapping Contest - Results
He was a judge once: Melee Mapping Contest #3 - Results

 

[SayuriTenshi]

@WolfFarkas well i just made it to see it playtested by good players i dont care about win reputation points or so i just wanted to see it played

 

[WolfFarkas]

@WolfFarkas well i just made it to see it playtested by good players i dont care about win reputation points or so i just wanted to see it played

you are right it seems not fair. I mean you won today , but your map is not going to be used.

 

[Nudl9]

Way to be original and have a back bone.
If it's the judges contestants have to satisfy and not melee, then I guess I've been living under a rock and probably still will.

There's nothing wrong with that.
If you want to win, then you will do what is optimal.
Melee maps designed for 1v1 - 2v2 are pretty conservative and there is barely any room for new ideas or gimmicks.
If anything the melee community is to blame for the lack of new maps, because nobody is willing to playtest.
Which is funny because you still hear from top players like Lawliet that he wants new maps.
So it's hard to make good competetive maps when there aren't anyone willing to test your map.
It could just be that the melee community is too small to find the tester or because hive's reputation is bad in melee communites, i don't know.
The way i see it, the most optimal approach is to just pump out new - conventional maps and hope that one of them is recieved well.

@JaleVeliki
I'd refrain from criticising other submissions if i were you, it's not a good look.
If you feel the wrong maps have won, which is totally relateable, then direct the flack towards the judges instead.

 

[WolfFarkas]

So the winners are acording to Remodemo excel notes. (single judge):

1-Brightwater Oasis: 70,9 (awsome map)
2-Rivulet: 64,1 (awsome small map)
3-Northwatch Hold: 61,8 (awsome dual enviroment map)
4-Uther Slumber: 59,4 (awsome 2009 map)


5- Tie between Starfish Village and Gold Port: 57,4

(Not Ruins of Azhara and not Gold Port, since one judge was removed from the frontpage).

this is the new info of what I understand...

congratulations to the winners.

RemoDemo will submit text reviews, so this can be validated, and give users badges.

I hope this may be ok??,

 

[W3Sour]

Yes I can be a judge again, but for the next contest. @Jale ... I was pushing hard 1 year ago for new maps, and got Northern Isles, Swamped and Synergy all from Hive on the mappool. I'll push again for Reforged. Once I take a closer look at these maps, I'll again make suggestions to Kam to add some fresh life into the mappool once more.

 

[JaleVeliki]

oh.

Yes I can be a judge again, but for the next contest. @Jale ... I was pushing hard 1 year ago for new maps, and got Northern Isles, Swamped and Synergy all from Hive on the mappool. I'll push again for Reforged. Once I take a closer look at these maps, I'll again make suggestions to Kam to add some fresh life into the mappool once more.

Great!

 

[FatJonah]

Seems nobody likes the scoring system, or at least want to see the math done for each map, which I 100% support

 

[WolfFarkas]

Seems nobody likes the scoring system, or at least want to see the math done for each map, which I 100% support

Just explaining the situation to @FatJonah



is not that we dont like the score system , the site has Arena Rules, and judges guides to follow. But I have faith that in the end, things will be fixed.


Arena - Rules And Guide

Judge Guide

 

[FatJonah]

Just explaining the situation to @FatJonah



is not that we dont like the score system , the site has Arena Rules, and judges guides to follow. But I have faith that in the end, things may be fixed more or less.


Arena - Rules And Guide

Judge Guide

ok that makes more sense
-eee