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Hive Workshop Cup Melee Mapping Contest - Results

Discussion in 'The Arena' started by Landmine, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    1- Sorry, I spoke more than I should.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  2. Kerael

    Kerael

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    @ometotchtli If you only assess balance and nothing else, you get Echo Isles. Good map, but nothing else.
    The scope of 'competitive level' can be extended to include some other concepts besides what BlizzEnt maps and the like suggest. I'm really glad that Logging Camp made it to the prize spots as it enriches the good old melee gameplay with an interesting twist. Too bad Knecht had to remove some of the bridges tho, but ok.
    I've taken much pleasure reading deepstrasz' reviews on one of the past melee contests, as he elaborated the issue with Blizz-like maps in details and in regards to each of the entries. A shame that he wasn't judging now, not mentioning @eubz disappearance from the contest judges with no explanation from the organizers whatsoever.

    As for what the pro players will say about the maps, there is no certainty that they'll even say something. Unlikely that they'll be asked either.

    @deepstrasz There are none. :/
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  3. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Talk about searching for what there exists not.
     
  4. mafe

    mafe

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    Well.....
    Of course I'm happy that I won, but I'm also feeling kinda confused.
    I guess I'll take a few days before I comment any further.
     
  5. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Not sure exactly what you mean, so I might be misunderstanding, but if you have something to say, do it when the time is right otherwise credibility after the prizes are given would be null.
     
  6. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
    Where the fuck did you find this guy.
    This is worse than the last contest jesus christ.
     
  7. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Hey don't be so promotive. Give some scene time to the other dudes: Zoroaster, Muhammad, Buddha, Moses and the other other dudes :D

    Let's not attack persons and instead use arguments. I think that would be the proper way and you'd actually be convincing.
     
  8. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    What do you want me to say?
    I'm beyond arguments at this point.
    You found another judge with no background and let him go autist mode.
    Just look at that fucking .pdf essay.
    You could summarize most maps in 10 notes.
     
  9. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    [​IMG]

    Although, it's not fun times either. The point is, don't go that way and counter the review politely.
     
  10. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    LOL what part of it? it's a 48 page bachelor thesis.
     
  11. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Obviously, I meant the one pertaining your map. Start by objectively defending the review which you feel is against you.
    Cut the sarcasm for a bit.
     
  12. Kerael

    Kerael

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    @Nudl9 So mine was. 'Some mushrooms don't fit. Random dogshit, 1.1/10.'
    A whole fucking week of work.
    It would also seem that aesthetic preferences impacted Balance and Creativeness scores as no other comments suggested otherwise. Besides an unverified claim about Blademaster, that is.
    Many of the concepts or terrain features were not even mentioned. Generalizing claims supported by a miscalculation (!).
    I'd say he only spent about 10 minutes on this one while being sleep deprived due to the timeframes. Understandable, but unacceptable at the same time.

    Really, I've uploaded my entry with all its inherent and hand-made flaws in mind. But I would at least hope for a fair assessment and review. For myself and everyone else equally. This unprofessional and value-flashing one-off essay is a fucking offense to labor!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  13. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    be calm, use politly arguments.

    my review opinion


    I only questioning what its was written. I dont mind who write it, I dont want to offend anybody, but I feel that some points are very subjetive for a melee map review.

    A cience lesson, but wait, this is warcraft 3, were there is magic .
    Who said that water in WC3 has to be identical to real life??, or leaves.
    What is the density of Ice mixed with fel inside???
    What is the density of Ice mixed with mana inside??
    This review is like a cience exam of warcraft.
    so you cant put ice tiles in shallow water, thats the lesson to be lerned?
    I understand the Moonspark had the same review about this.

    upload_2019-10-11_13-10-42.png

    And I want to explain something: when water melts the ice bellow remains frozen, see how Antartida is melting and having ponds. And Permafrost: is hard to melt, water can be above it.
    And Leaves can sink as everything else, there are water plants in the botton of a pond. So what because I put a lot of effort in page down doodads, I get this downscore.

    upload_2019-10-11_13-14-2.png

    Wich is a ladder map that reach Blizzard!!, So if looks like Northern Isles is bad??. That argument cant be a valid one.


    upload_2019-10-11_13-25-56.png

    Why metion Reforged?. Not true, they end in small water ponds.
    Wich I recognice I could have done better, but this is not a terraining contest, and I also had time lacking as everybody that started a map from 0.
    I put a huge effort in all the map. So by minor mistakes I get half score reduced.
    Sad to see that less terrained effort and less doodads effort may give more score it seems.

    upload_2019-10-11_13-20-14.png

    upload_2019-10-11_13-21-44.png

    1) Not single comment about game play. while the aim of the contest should have been game play and balance. This is just repeat what was written in the terrain topic.
    2) the review ends in a comparison saying my map is worse than Northern Island Blizzard Map.
    3) The theme is Ice trolls dominating the lands of Northrend, with their magic, with their beastbreaders skills.
    And why not trolls can have a couple of ships and burn stuff.

    upload_2019-10-11_13-32-50.png

    So there cant be a skeleton orc in northrend. Or a Dark troll. or some sludges. You should see WOW (world of warcraft) more.
    ICC-Northred creeps are very un-balanced, like dragons, dragonkins, faceless terrors, nerubians
    . So creeps of other tiles helps to keep the balance and have creep diversity.
    Northredn hasnt many balanced formulas or is troll based or tuskar based. Rest of creeps will affect balance somehow.

    If I put a forest troll priest ,or a dark troll priest is because they have different skills.
    put all frost troll priest means all camps have frost armor.
    and there is a level, I have a level 4 revenant with blizzard and I need a level 3 revenant with no skills, I have no other choise but the revenant of tides level 3.


    upload_2019-10-11_15-25-10.png
    1) Creeps that doest fit the theme shouldnt be considered as a balance issue.
    2) Drakkari = trolls of northrend = trolls focus.
    3) only seals, thats bad? they are easy to spot.

    I also think that mention my map in others reviews is not profesional.

    I can not stand that a review points my map is bad:
    as comparison mentioning Northern Island is a bad map because it lacks theme, and ice-and land is random.

    Northern Island is a map to be praised, it got ladder and it will be used in this Hive Cup.

    sorry I really need it to discharge...



    Nice to see that 4 good maps will be used.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  14. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    I got hard negative review for doing a random spawn style type of map.
    You have maps in the competitive pool with random spawn style maps: TM, TR.
    Which are two of the most belowed (and sometimes hated) maps generally speaking.
    It's the one of the things people have been requesting me whenever i post on reddit/wc3.
    These maps would basicly throw symmetric balance in favor of forcing players to adapt.
    Or if i were to put it: the big brain maps, where boys become men.

    The rest is really just obsessing over detail work, the map being slightly asymmetric, personal details we don't need to know. Mostly just focusing on negative aspects instead of looking at the positive aspects and reviewing the map as a whole. Which is how you review a melee map duh. That's not even mentioning the item drops LOL.

    I'm convinced after reading that he has autism. The glaring obession with details, was there ever a part where he viewed maps as a whole? Inability to use suspense of disbelief when it comes to creeps, tilesets, doodads, etc. Lack of imagination/fantasy is a common autism trait. Inserting himself when not necessary, nobody cares if you had AN IDEA for a similar concept.

    That's not even mentioning his review on anomine's gold port rofl.
     
  15. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

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    Reading (chunks of) that pdf review did give me a good laugh.
    Now, where is the real review?

    I mean, seriously, just... why?
    I am not saying that the winner maps are bad but... how did that review get an all green signal
    for the contest to be published? How and why did that happen?

    The treatment of the entry made by Anomines alone is already unprofessional beyond comprehension.
    I am baffled how this is supposed to be considered proper judging.
     
  16. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    Former Staff speaking!
    I am glad you agree with some of our points. Thanks.
     
  17. Kerael

    Kerael

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    @WolfFarkas You see, I am a reasonable person. And I am respectful, where it's due. But you gotta understand that not only this is a case of blatant disregard for a number of entries, including mine, but that it is no longer reasonable to remain polite as you will likely not be heard either way. Something has to be said on behalf of the organizers, @Landmine . There's little space left for meaningful actions, as the qualifiers will start tomorrow. Regardless of that, the responsibility has to be taken. And Gold Port should be reassessed or its assessment should be based on the remaining valid review, or a score for their lack of.
     
  18. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    I meant to avoid bad words as fuc...
     
  19. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Yeah but the issue is not laughable. It's pretty serious even for a hobby. Anomines really worked for this with love like everyone else, time which he could've used for something else that would have actually made a difference.
     
  20. Kerael

    Kerael

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    I thought about that, however the language does not detract the message. But that mostly depends on the reader, I understand that.