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Hive Cup 2021: Melee Mapping Contest #8

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Level 12
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Mar 10, 2019
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85
i thought it would be nice to give some feedback on the maps currently submitted

Seperated Worlds:
Really nice aesthetics and texturing, those mushrooms trees :ugly:. Nice use of the hight tool, heavily underused in my opinion.
On campaign maps its almost ludacris to what level those designers went back then.
Overall its not a competitiv map unfortunatly, the layout is just too crazy. But good effort :thumbs_up:


Corrupted Flow:
The map in general is a little bit too big, would scale it down to 88x100, put the startinglocations in the corners. Work on the area spacing, those open areas feel gigantic. Try to play a testgame with 100 sup armee and walk over the map, that helps.
The natural expantion is close to the enemie so its hard to take, maybe its on purpose but alot of players wont like it.

The green water is mh difficult. Its the theme of the map but maybe scale it a little bit down. Im all for fresh aesthetics in melee maps but Felwood is problematic :infl_thumbs_up:. Try to find a nice balanced between green and the dark textures. I would suggest work on the spacing and see where it goes. :)


Bay of Storms:
Looks like a solid map on first glance. Try to make those open water areas more interesting aestheticly speaking. I think its important for players and observers to immediately recognise where there are on the map based on aesthetics and texturing. Difficult on a Beach map i guess, maybe go for some different doodading.
The natural expantion creeps are way too strong, try lvl 13-15. Not sure about those Dragonroosts:grin:


Crystalline City:
Ok thats some acid trip texturing and doodad mashup for sure :razz:
Layout is pretty solid i would say, it has a very easy circle design which works but isnt particular interesting.
nice gate usage :thumbs_up:.


Northwestern River:
Mapsize is good, the open areas are too big, try to optimize those.
The Creepspots should point towards the opponent not towards your own base. Keeping it like that creates potentially a boring creepgame without much action.
Turning them towards the opponent makes them more risky for creepjacks, thus more rewarding and tense.
The bottom right corner should have multiple ways to enter and exit. 1 big corridor leaves little room for movement.

Throne of Tides:
solid map i guess. kinda wacky on the aesthetics but thats to be expected on a zucth map:ugly:

Sludge Fen:
Again really big map, i wouldnt use more then 90x90 to 100x100. Maybe scale down the top half. it really feels like this will end up in a never ending creepfest without much going on. the natural is too far away. the bottom path should have openings towards the middle.
Besides that nice concept on the theme. im interested to see how you blend the green oasis parts with the red barren textures.


Déjà Vu:
uh didnt expect that one. sick layout, nice terrain texturing, nice area zoning with the little rivers, hight tool, creeps, neutral building placement.
very well done:thumbs_up:
:piru:

Ancient Blood:
puh, difficult to really go into detail here. maybe look at some ladder maps to get a general feeling of what works and what doesnt.
i like the theme and the doodad work is really good.:smile:
 
Level 29
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
1,635
i thought it would be nice to give some feedback on the maps currently submitted


Northwestern River:
Mapsize is good, the open areas are too big, try to optimize those.
The Creepspots should point towards the opponent not towards your own base. Keeping it like that creates potentially a boring creepgame without much action.
Turning them towards the opponent makes them more risky for creepjacks, thus more rewarding and tense.

The bottom right corner should have multiple ways to enter and exit. 1 big corridor leaves little room for movement.
Hi thanks a lot, it was very usefull to me, already working on fixing those things, you are kind the most to use your freetime to help competitors, I would like to return the favor but you have more knoledge than me in balance and your watering terraining is far huge more pro than mine.

edit: regarding the shops, I cant change the shops layout because by doing that the distance between the two shops is too short (small map), and hit the two shops ends being unbalancing rewarding.
I tried two times two make the shops entrance better toward the northwest, something like goldport, but the distance between them is no good.
I have to pick between the boring thing and the risky unbalanced thing.
hopefully the norwestern easy cornermine will give a lot of fun.
I fixed the other two things you pointed. Yeah the southeast corridor was a huge mistake.
thanks again.
good luck
 
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Level 26
Joined
Jan 4, 2020
Messages
364
i thought it would be nice to give some feedback on the maps currently submitted

Seperated Worlds:
Really nice aesthetics and texturing, those mushrooms trees :ugly:. Nice use of the hight tool, heavily underused in my opinion.
On campaign maps its almost ludacris to what level those designers went back then.
Overall its not a competitiv map unfortunatly, the layout is just too crazy. But good effort :thumbs_up:


Corrupted Flow:
The map in general is a little bit too big, would scale it down to 88x100, put the startinglocations in the corners. Work on the area spacing, those open areas feel gigantic. Try to play a testgame with 100 sup armee and walk over the map, that helps.
The natural expantion is close to the enemie so its hard to take, maybe its on purpose but alot of players wont like it.

The green water is mh difficult. Its the theme of the map but maybe scale it a little bit down. Im all for fresh aesthetics in melee maps but Felwood is problematic :infl_thumbs_up:. Try to find a nice balanced between green and the dark textures. I would suggest work on the spacing and see where it goes. :)


Bay of Storms:
Looks like a solid map on first glance. Try to make those open water areas more interesting aestheticly speaking. I think its important for players and observers to immediately recognise where there are on the map based on aesthetics and texturing. Difficult on a Beach map i guess, maybe go for some different doodading.
The natural expantion creeps are way too strong, try lvl 13-15. Not sure about those Dragonroosts:grin:


Crystalline City:
Ok thats some acid trip texturing and doodad mashup for sure :razz:
Layout is pretty solid i would say, it has a very easy circle design which works but isnt particular interesting.
nice gate usage :thumbs_up:.


Northwestern River:
Mapsize is good, the open areas are too big, try to optimize those.
The Creepspots should point towards the opponent not towards your own base. Keeping it like that creates potentially a boring creepgame without much action.
Turning them towards the opponent makes them more risky for creepjacks, thus more rewarding and tense.
The bottom right corner should have multiple ways to enter and exit. 1 big corridor leaves little room for movement.

Throne of Tides:
solid map i guess. kinda wacky on the aesthetics but thats to be expected on a zucth map:ugly:

Sludge Fen:
Again really big map, i wouldnt use more then 90x90 to 100x100. Maybe scale down the top half. it really feels like this will end up in a never ending creepfest without much going on. the natural is too far away. the bottom path should have openings towards the middle.
Besides that nice concept on the theme. im interested to see how you blend the green oasis parts with the red barren textures.


Déjà Vu:
uh didnt expect that one. sick layout, nice terrain texturing, nice area zoning with the little rivers, hight tool, creeps, neutral building placement.
very well done:thumbs_up:
:piru:

Ancient Blood:
puh, difficult to really go into detail here. maybe look at some ladder maps to get a general feeling of what works and what doesnt.
i like the theme and the doodad work is really good.:smile:
Well every map of mine is whacky lol, I think everyone know that. I think I kinda freaking out right now of what to go with... I don't have many high quality map, most of them are experimental about new things. So when I remove the portal from ToT I feel like I should make a new move with more standard. but still it wasn't good enough I hope to get in at least top 8 lol. (that's what I expect after saw most of the participant WIP). Those top mapper aren't appear yet but I saw some of it...

also comment about your last map meeral:
Fairy Tale:
The terrain part kinda similar to your last map Greenwood pass which I like very much, but I would say I like that one more. Anyway perfect visual.
other than that nothing interested me. Red spot is weird imo it's look like a dead end but also not. Why do I feel like I will get trap there lmao.
 
Level 11
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Messages
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A few WIPs. Let's go with "Spring Melt" for the map name.
 

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mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
Some feedback about some potential quick fixes. However, I excluded those maps which I either "officially" reviewed already (i.e. older maps that have not been specifically for this contest) or such maps where I didnt anything immediately obvious that requires fixing. I'll also not comment on clearly intentional features that I might consider questionable. Draw your own conclusions ;)

@Zucth In the overview the lvl 4 permanent itemdrops have no additional lvl 1 powerup, but on the map they do. Similarly for the central red. What is intended, what isnt?
@WolfFarkas at the northeastern shop, you can bypass the creeps and buy without aggroing them.
@StrickEagle the red camps need more antiair defense. I'm also not convinced that the narrow entrances near the natural expansions are a good idea.
@FAB0213 The map does not satisfy "melee map: yes" which is required by the contest rules due to having modified unit data. At both ramp, some of the tiles are bugged and unpathable.
@Damage Several itemdrops are too strong. Flying creeps at green spots are bad since undeads cant kill them. Aggro issues with creeps at shops. At least one creep at expansions needs to be not on camp stance (or lvl7+).
@Resyak Custom item tables should usually be avoided, these in particular are also not a balanced. Many creepspots have aggro issues. Too many asymmetries, in particular with one expansion being on high ground and the other not.
@Z-Machine The red gold mines creeps need antiair defense.
@Blood Raven Better dont mix itemdrops from different level (or class). At least one crep at the natural expansion needs to be not on camp stance (or lvl 7+).
@Kino AoW-creeping is unnecessarily inconvenient due having to build far away from the creepcamps.
@Meerel Maybe Nightelves would like to have the option of AoW-creeping the lab more easily. There is a chance that shredders/sappers can become stuck at the western lab.
 
Level 11
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
8
The last two WIPs. For the last one -- changed the mid-goldmine to a CH type, based on Rhythmt's suggestion (the passing for the centrally positioned mine doesn't work well), changed terrain from muddy, yellow-brown to fresh-wet green based on Tenshi's suggestion.
 

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Level 14
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
775
@Damage Several itemdrops are too strong. Flying creeps at green spots are bad since undeads cant kill them. Aggro issues with creeps at shops. At least one creep at expansions needs to be not on camp stance (or lvl7+).
Alright, sounds good.
Granted, I never play melee, so I don't quite understand your feedback.

What aggro issue do you mean? They need to be on non-camp stance or something?
And why does a creep at an expansion need to have camp stance removed?

I'll assume you're correct, I'd just like an explanation.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
Alright, sounds good.
Granted, I never play melee, so I don't quite understand your feedback.

What aggro issue do you mean? They need to be on non-camp stance or something?
And why does a creep at an expansion need to have camp stance removed?

I'll assume you're correct, I'd just like an explanation.
About the expansions: If none of the creeps is on camp stance, players can build towers before creeping it, which is bad. Or they can do stuff like haunting the mine and mine at night before killing the creeps which is even weirder:
1637262205671.png


About the aggro issues:
1637260838256.png

Let's say the red player comes from the south, attacks blue expansion, but then has to retreat towards the southwest. Then we will run right into the creeps and get attacked by them. Something like that should not happen. It is commonly expected from players that creeps will not be in positions where they will attack player units "accidentially", while the players might not have the intention to fight the creeps and want to do something different.
 
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Level 17
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
324
What timezone are we talking about, considering deadline? I need a lot of time to finish at least to publishable level of polish, so I was hoping some US time, or at least GMT. Thanks!
19th Nov 23:59 gmt, so 8.5 hours more :)

Update: actually, GMT isn't written in the description... So Honolulu time? :D We can throw in a several more hours in there, coz I won't be sending the judges the maps at night anyway.
 
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Level 11
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Apr 2, 2021
Messages
8
Uploaded (posted) the final version of the map here:

GL everyone!
 
Level 21
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
282
Here it is baby:


Good luck everyone, looking forward to see some games!
 
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