Ulfsire's Roguelike 0.6.7

Callahan · Jul 11, 2020

The summon wolf ability has been removed is it intentional?

Ulfsire · Jul 11, 2020

Callahan said:
The summon wolf ability has been removed is it intentional?

It was, but I'll put it back. I planned to remove it because it wasn't really an element, but now I've remembered how I like the flavor of a wolf summoner. Maybe it will lead to a "Beast" element. Anyway I'll add it back in this (current!) version!

0.5.3
-increased the power of Artifacts, to make them more worth the risk
of saving gold and killing bosses
-all damage type resistances provided by Artifacts now scale based
on game level
-improved the power of common permanent items, such as Giant's Belt
-tried to fix a bug where if all players die and one player hasn't
picked and is AFK, the game can't restart (this could have bugged
something else, and needs testing)
-Choosing "Yourself" as your God now also grants a random Artifact
every 10th level
-slightly reduced the scaling of some monster abilities
-added Call Wolf back to summoner

PLANNED: summon abilities from Blood and Earth, Spell upgrades, a God of the Void

Martyr · Jul 12, 2020

The map seems needlesy veeery overcomplicated at first.
I spent literal 15min, trying to guess which options to get for my character, and I wasnt even sure what I was choosing.

Ulfsire · Jul 12, 2020

Martyr said:
The map seems needlesy veeery overcomplicated at first.
I spent literal 15min, trying to guess which options to get for my character, and I wasnt even sure what I was choosing.

Thanks for trying it out buddy.
I was worried about the complexity, but a bunch of people have been playing / hosting it and figuring it out, which I honestly didn't expect haha.
I'll try to add more tutorial in the future. In the meantime, hit me up if you ever want to play together. We can try for a good run.

Halithor · Jul 12, 2020

I want to give this game a little review because it's so much fun.

Having played this games multiple times, both solo and with friends, I can say it is a great time. It works well as a solo game, but really shines when playing with friends.

A unique skill selection systems that allows for huge amounts of character customization. Each game you get to try a new style of play, a new strategy, or a new synergy within your selection of skills. The "visual" skill building (which is placing buildings strategically in a grid; each building grants your character an ability and adjacent structure empower each other) easily can compel players to experiment with strategy. Many abilities will synergize with others, either by triggering some extra effect or unlocking some new abilities. This great skill selection pairs with a class + race system, determining your character's attribute gain, and a pantheon of gods whom your character can choose to worship, each granting some unique benefit but imposing some arbitrary restrictions on your character's actions. Together, this leads to some seriously crazy character choice.

The random levels are well done and provide a good setting for the roguelike. Each level the challenge to kill the guardian and escape the level can be approached in multiple ways. The big bosses every 5 levels are difficult to beat. My party has been wiped many times when we took on a boss without being prepared enough. The monsters that inhabit each level are also interesting, ranging from a slog through hundreds of zombies to dangerous jailors that you often you may have to run from, rather than fight. As the game progresses, the monsters gain special traits and abilities, making the difficulty rapidly escalate.

The level of difficulty in the game is set at a challenging "Hard", which feel just right for the style of play. Out of more than 60 attempts, I've only 'won' twice (it does go on forever, should you wish to keep going). It certainly lives up to the roguelike genre. Luckily, the game also will restart in game, 5 seconds after the team is eliminated, allowing everyone to try another strategy.

Overall, this game is a joy to play and has provided my friends and I with hours of entertainment. I look forward to more progress in its development!

Ulfsire · Jul 16, 2020

New version up

0.5.4
-updated Warrior and Skirmisher skills to each grant a chance to Block and Evade, respectively
-made Gouge also scale on Blood
-added "Bazaar" shop for advanced potions / permanents
-Newts now resist arcane damage
-added god to worship: Oros, the Womb of Night (refreshes Potions of Corruption, adds tentacles)
-the god Hamash will now refresh your Potions of Fire

Also added a "Recommended Builds" tab in Quests, with a good example of a character to make for beginners. More will be added.

I want to give this game a little review because it's so much fun.

Having played this games multiple times, both solo and with friends, I can say it is a great time. It works well as a solo game, but really shines when playing with friends.

A unique skill selection systems that allows for huge amounts of character customization. Each game you get to try a new style of play, a new strategy, or a new synergy within your selection of skills. The "visual" skill building (which is placing buildings strategically in a grid; each building grants your character an ability and adjacent structure empower each other) easily can compel players to experiment with strategy. Many abilities will synergize with others, either by triggering some extra effect or unlocking some new abilities. This great skill selection pairs with a class + race system, determining your character's attribute gain, and a pantheon of gods whom your character can choose to worship, each granting some unique benefit but imposing some arbitrary restrictions on your character's actions. Together, this leads to some seriously crazy character choice.

The random levels are well done and provide a good setting for the roguelike. Each level the challenge to kill the guardian and escape the level can be approached in multiple ways. The big bosses every 5 levels are difficult to beat. My party has been wiped many times when we took on a boss without being prepared enough. The monsters that inhabit each level are also interesting, ranging from a slog through hundreds of zombies to dangerous jailors that you often you may have to run from, rather than fight. As the game progresses, the monsters gain special traits and abilities, making the difficulty rapidly escalate.

The level of difficulty in the game is set at a challenging "Hard", which feel just right for the style of play. Out of more than 60 attempts, I've only 'won' twice (it does go on forever, should you wish to keep going). It certainly lives up to the roguelike genre. Luckily, the game also will restart in game, 5 seconds after the team is eliminated, allowing everyone to try another strategy.

Overall, this game is a joy to play and has provided my friends and I with hours of entertainment. I look forward to more progress in its development!

Thanks brother! Here's to more runs!

0.5.5 hotfix
-reworked Oros, less tentacles, removed stat gain, but gets the Void artifact every 12th level
-Holy Icon 10 -> 5 piety

Ulfsire · Jul 23, 2020

NEW VERSIONS

0.5.6 + 0.5.7
-added Potion of Divinity / Potion of Mana, can drop from Guardians
-prevented friendly fire
-generally increased damage of "Spear" type abilities
-Eresh now charges Rods of Undeath
-"Diseased" now spawns a zombie with max life = to the dying unit's
-"Burning" now creates a flame that deals damage over time in an area
-2 new standard enemies, Leshak and Golem
-gave some enemies the ability to spawn Plague clouds
-added a new strong enemy, Couatl, teleports like the Bogie
-new enemy Class, Diabolist (summons temporary Imps, can have abilities if summoned from a Guardian)
-new element, Wind (has a melee Strike, a Throw + an Imbue)
-Zephyr(Wind), upgrades from AGI+1, permanently increases attack speed
-Stoneskin now also gives +2 Block
-Enraged (blood), Hardened (earth) and Sky (Wind) added to summon abilities
-Nemus Crown can now heal for 25 mana
-Dragon abilities removed, Burning Blade moved to Cleave->, Breath of Frost replaced with Frostsweep (requires Ice)
-NEW (and final?) GOD, --Tengri, the Northern sky-- rewards Ice, Wind, finishing levels with full mana, summons powerful spirits with atk/life = to the hero's

(if it's obnoxious to post updates in the thread here, let me know, gentle mod, and I will refrain)

deepstrasz · Jul 23, 2020

Ulfsire said:
(if it's obnoxious to post updates in the thread here, let me know, gentle mod, and I will refrain)

What? It's actually recommended but also link these posts in a changelog section in the map thread's description.

Ulfsire · Jul 23, 2020

deepstrasz said:
What? It's actually recommended but also link these posts in a changelog section in the map thread's description.

Good to know, just wasn't sure what qualifies as spam

0.5.8 (scaling hotfix + more)
-Getting 3 of a common item will now combine it into a stronger item, with x3 effect
-Paw of Immortality (3x Claw of Life)
-Champion's Gauntlet (3x Gloves of Haste)
-Master Ring (3x Magus Ring)
-Necklace of the Stars (3x Astral Charm)
-Titan's Skin (3x Giant's Belt)
-Evocations now grant +2 charges to each held Rune when learned
-Reworked the scaling of abilities granted to Summons by your elements to scale independently of base Attack, all should now be consistent

deepstrasz · Jul 23, 2020

Ulfsire said:
Good to know, just wasn't sure what qualifies as spam

Surely not updates.

Rep for nothing and maps for free, though.

disruptive_ · Jul 23, 2020

Big fan of all your previous maps. This one is also top quality. Fast, fun, replayable and unforgiving, it captures the roguelike feel very well. Not a total fan of the damage type system you implemented, as it ended up adding RNG dependancy aspects, but atleast this added rng has some good depth. The structure building + placing based techtree feature is an example of how to make good use of WC3 unmodified interactions without overcomplicating things. Meanwhile somebody is trying to imitate Diablo/Path of Exile with some fancy frames while cluttering the screen. Very refreshing.

Some thoughts (the last one you can obviate):
1. It seems you don't like hero glows and imported models on your games but on this one you can seriously consider using atleast hero glows as some models are used simultaneously on mobs and heroes (ie. red felguard).
2. Mob traits that behave as attack ground turrets, like cryomancer trait, simply obliterate melee heroes as these attacks can't be realistically dodged at melee range, all this in contrast with ranged heroes. This is maybe intended (melee counter trait), but these special attack traits deal rather excessive damage in my opinion. You should consider adding the respective "ranged hero" counter mob trait.
3. Imbue, magician and channeler allows you to learn any element, but skirmisher and warrior only allows to learn certain ones, otherwise you are forced to invest on one of the first mentioned should you want to learn elements that are not featured by the latter. I get that creating "element themed" skills for warrior and ranged type skills is harder compared to creating element based skills for your classic spell or magic lore. This makes sense from a thematic standpoint (ie. warriors are not known for professing the arcane arts or their awesome fireballs) but you could simply implement a system so certain classes learn the first element at level X and the second at level Y, making it a bit independent on the structures available.
4. The last boss can't be realistically be soloed

. Just saying. Also, it was kind of funny that the summoned units granted by achieving certain piety (ie. krosodemon) can be seduced by succubus and be used against you for the entire duration of the level. By funny i rather mean brutal.

Ulfsire · Jul 23, 2020

disruptive_ said:
Big fan of all your previous maps. This one is also top quality. Fast, fun, replayable and unforgiving, it captures the roguelike feel very well. Not a total fan of the damage type system you implemented, as it ended up adding RNG dependancy aspects, but atleast this added rng has some good depth. The structure building + placing based techtree feature is an example of how to make good use of WC3 unmodified interactions without overcomplicating things. Meanwhile somebody is trying to imitate Diablo/Path of Exile with some fancy frames while cluttering the screen. Very refreshing.

Some thoughts (the last one you can obviate):
1. It seems you don't like hero glows and imported models on your games but on this one you can seriously consider using atleast hero glows as some models are used simultaneously on mobs and heroes (ie. red felguard).
2. Mob traits that behave as attack ground turrets, like cryomancer trait, simply obliterate melee heroes as these attacks can't be realistically dodged at melee range, all this in contrast with ranged heroes. This is maybe intended (melee counter trait), but these special attack traits deal rather excessive damage in my opinion. You should consider adding the respective "ranged hero" counter mob trait.
3. Imbue, magician and channeler allows you to learn any element, but skirmisher and warrior only allows to learn certain ones, otherwise you are forced to invest on one of the first mentioned should you want to learn elements that are not featured by the latter. I get that creating "element themed" skills for warrior and ranged type skills is harder compared to creating element based skills for your classic spell or magic lore. This makes sense from a thematic standpoint (ie. warriors are not known for professing the arcane arts or their awesome fireballs) but you could simply implement a system so certain classes learn the first element at level X and the second at level Y, making it a bit independent on the structures available.
4. The last boss can't be realistically be soloed . Just saying. Also, it was kind of funny that the summoned units granted by achieving certain piety (ie. krosodemon) can be seduced by succubus and be used against you for the entire duration of the level. By funny i rather mean brutal.

Thanks for the feedback brother, these are good points

1. I'll add hero glows, if they work. My concern was that they didn't work in reforged / with the new colors. If you have a good link for the resource I would love it

2. Yeah the lobbed projectiles might do too much damage, but I'm really trying to push "Block" and "Evade" as a solution for martial types being more resistant, without encroaching on the flat resists of Imbue. The Fireball / Frostball are intended to be really threatening for glass cannons, since those builds were winning the game in previous versions. I'll either reduce their damage or give martials more options. A goal (which hasn't been met) is for it to be possible to beat the game with a Fighter that only builds Cleave
3. I'm still thinking of how to handle the flavor of "enchanted" warriors / martial types aligned with an element. I agree that going into an Imbue to unlock Fire can feel unthematic sometimes. The design philosophy here is fluid, I just need a solution that feels more satisfying.
4. The King is perhaps almost impossible now solo. The current version is very much a reaction to someone getting to level 60 as a solo wizard. He definitely can't be beat with Cleave-Only, which I find disappointing. I'm more worried about victory being too easy, but the King is likely to see some limitations put on his abilities.
Seduction should become less likely if the target is higher level, and I just increased the base level of the big summons. Seduction of the Beast or the Krosodemon should be near impossible now - if I didn't implement this, I will.

Thanks again for the playing - it makes me happy!

disruptive_ · Jul 24, 2020

This hero glow model worked for me (SD graphics, all 24 colors). Usually you grant the effect by adding an ability based on life regen aura and sometimes (ie. players can select their color in the lobby) you may need to call a SetUnitColor function after adding it, just in case so to avoid the effect not updating the needed team color.

deepstrasz · Jul 24, 2020

disruptive_ said:
Usually you grant the effect by adding an ability based on life regen aura and sometimes (ie. players can select their color in the lobby) you may need to call a SetUnitColor function after adding it, just in case so to avoid the effect not updating the needed team color.

I think using the Tornado slow aura is a better option.

Ulfsire · Jul 24, 2020

disruptive_ said:
This hero glow model worked for me (SD graphics, all 24 colors). Usually you grant the effect by adding an ability based on life regen aura and sometimes (ie. players can select their color in the lobby) you may need to call a SetUnitColor function after adding it, just in case so to avoid the effect not updating the needed team color.

Thank you, although it looks like it doesn't adjust to the new colors (in my test, with the player setting color in the lobby - White became Red) - however, I can lock players into Red / Blue / Purp / Teal, which doesn't upset me as much as I thought it would haha. It might actually work though, I'll definitely use the glow regardless.

Who can I credit for the model?

deepstrasz said:
I think using the Tornado slow aura is a better option.

I'll try both, thanks. Life regen method definitely doesn't show up on the steam tank at least.

disruptive_ · Jul 24, 2020

deepstrasz said:
I think using the Tornado slow aura is a better option.

Ulfsire said:
Thank you, although it looks like it doesn't adjust to the new colors (in my test, with the player setting color in the lobby - White became Red) - however, I can lock players into Red / Blue / Purp / Teal, which doesn't upset me as much as I thought it would haha. It might actually work though, I'll definitely use the glow regardless.

Who can I credit for the model?

I'll try both, thanks. Life regen method definitely doesn't show up on the steam tank at least.

Mmmm... i tried this exact method and it worked (including custom color selection in the lobby):
1. You give a Life Regeneration Aura (Neutral), self targeted (clear all target fields, ie. Organic, and just leave "Self"), to the unit. You can add it after the unit is bought as a function call or as an object editor field, it doesn't matter. Tornado Slow should also work. Don't know what are the benefits of using one or another, but fair point.
2. After creating the unit you call this seemingly redundant function (custom script, maybe you are using JASS directly) to prevent team color bugs: SetUnitColor("UNIT", GetPlayerColor("PLAYER")). "UNIT" should be, judging by how your game interacts, GetSoldUnit(). Maybe you already have a event that tracks selection of heroes so you put this function there. "PLAYER" should be GetOwningPlayer("UNIT"). I can set this up for you if you want.

I...don't remember where i got that model. I remember i saved it with Retera Model Studio so it doesn't bug on Reforged. But since it is a geoset of an actual WC3 hero and it takes 10 seconds to remove geosets nowadays, you should simply credit Blizzard.

Ulfsire · Jul 24, 2020

disruptive_ said:
Mmmm... i tried this exact method and it worked (including custom color selection in the lobby):
1. You give a Life Regeneration Aura (Neutral), self targeted (clear all target fields, ie. Organic, and just leave "Self"), to the unit. You can add it after the unit is bought as a function call or as an object editor field, it doesn't matter. Tornado Slow should also work. Don't know what are the benefits of using one or another, but fair point.
2. After creating the unit you call this seemingly redundant function (custom script, maybe you are using JASS directly) to prevent team color bugs: SetUnitColor("UNIT", GetPlayerColor("PLAYER")). "UNIT" should be, judging by how your game interacts, GetSoldUnit(). Maybe you already have a event that tracks selection of heroes so you put this function there. "PLAYER" should be GetOwningPlayer("UNIT"). I can set this up for you if you want.

I...don't remember where i got that model. I remember i saved it with Retera Model Studio so it doesn't bug on Reforged. But since it is a geoset of an actual WC3 hero and it takes 10 seconds to remove geosets nowadays, you should simply credit Blizzard.

THANKS! I added the redundant "set unit color" and it all works now

pick-a-chew · Jul 25, 2020

I played this for about 2 hours with some friends. I'll start off with the criticisms:

The amount and size of the tooltips is overwhelming - took me the entire session to really figure out what was going on. Not that there's anything you can do to fix this as the map's design is purposefully complex, but you are more than likely deterring new players away from the map if they can't figure out what's going on within the first 10 minutes. I was lucky in that 2 friends had played before so clarified some things (and 1 of them had played with you), but I'd imagine if I didn't have that I probably would have quit early on.
The gold economy is both tedious and tiring; it's 2020, no one likes picking up gold coins in roguelikes. Please consider adding auto shared bounty on death, and keep gold coins as a rare bonus drop if you must.
Game can feel a bit like an idle RPG. From what I could tell, summons and passives reign supreme, usable abilities require a lot of lumber investment to unlock, and usually that isn't worth it as you often end up more powerful by stacking the same buildings. Having abilities to press makes the game more engaging, and unfortunately the current design seems to favor having only 1 or 0 buttons to click consistently.
On a few tries I played as a ranged hero, more often than not some trash creeps were always in my ass eating away at my non-regenerating health pool whilst some frost troll dude was passively killing everything with his frozen mirror or whatever it was. The balance sense of the map does seem a bit rough.
Probably just salt but in one game I got swarmed by little mobs that basically stun locked me to death with what was probably Bash. Not fun if you can't counter play that.
The level generation system whilst neat, is a bit of a headache to navigate in terms of the "mazes" that spawn. What exactly is the purpose of having the randomly generated mazes/walls? Is it just for randomization's sake or was you trying to achieve something with it? As someone who's quite understanding of WC3's engine I find it to be a pathing nightmare.
Lack of fun/interesting items (these are usually the staple of a roguelike).
Could the map ping the rift guardian? Probably because we were splergs but 1/5 of the time we were moving away from it by accident.
Sometimes you can be frolicking around the map enjoying freedom in peace and some mobs will appear from out of nowhere and chunk your hit points. The PvE is filled with flanks galore, I can't really say I enjoy this aspect. In other roguelikes I've played on WC3, whilst enemies are randomized, you always know where they will be. You don't have that on this map, and combined with the lack of healing/regeneration, it feels punishing just to exist.
There is an element of RNG on where the guardian spawns, which is fine, but perhaps consider making sure it always spawns a little bit away from the level entry point.

And here's the positive feedback:

The deity/class/race customization is pretty sweet. I'm sure you fully intend people to min-max the crap out of this but I had a blast just choosing a combo I fancied.
Piety is a fun concept.
The way Q W E R are set up is pretty interesting. If I get further in the game I'd imagine there's lots of fun combos you can have, which is something I'll look forward to.
The building system, whilst complex, is fun and definitely one of the best parts of the map once you grasp it.
Definitely a map that's fun to play with people.

Ulfsire · Jul 25, 2020

pick-a-chew said:
I played this for about 2 hours with some friends. I'll start off with the criticisms:

The amount and size of the tooltips is overwhelming - took me the entire session to really figure out what was going on. Not that there's anything you can do to fix this as the map's design is purposefully complex, but you are more than likely deterring new players away from the map if they can't figure out what's going on within the first 10 minutes. I was lucky in that 2 friends had played before so clarified some things (and 1 of them had played with you), but I'd imagine if I didn't have that I probably would have quit early on.

The gold economy is both tedious and tiring; it's 2020, no one likes picking up gold coins in roguelikes. Please consider adding auto shared bounty on death, and keep gold coins as a rare bonus drop if you must.

Game can feel a bit like an idle RPG. From what I could tell, summons and passives reign supreme, usable abilities require a lot of lumber investment to unlock, and usually that isn't worth it as you often end up more powerful by stacking the same buildings. Having abilities to press makes the game more engaging, and unfortunately the current design seems to favor having only 1 or 0 buttons to click consistently.

On a few tries I played as a ranged hero, more often than not some trash creeps were always in my ass eating away at my non-regenerating health pool whilst some frost troll dude was passively killing everything with his frozen mirror or whatever it was. The balance sense of the map does seem a bit rough.

Probably just salt but in one game I got swarmed by little mobs that basically stun locked me to death with what was probably Bash. Not fun if you can't counter play that.

The level generation system whilst neat, is a bit of a headache to navigate in terms of the "mazes" that spawn. What exactly is the purpose of having the randomly generated mazes/walls? Is it just for randomization's sake or was you trying to achieve something with it? As someone who's quite understanding of WC3's engine I find it to be a pathing nightmare.

Lack of fun/interesting items (these are usually the staple of a roguelike).

Could the map ping the rift guardian? Probably because we were splergs but 1/5 of the time we were moving away from it by accident.

Sometimes you can be frolicking around the map enjoying freedom in peace and some mobs will appear from out of nowhere and chunk your hit points. The PvE is filled with flanks galore, I can't really say I enjoy this aspect. In other roguelikes I've played on WC3, whilst enemies are randomized, you always know where they will be. You don't have that on this map, and combined with the lack of healing/regeneration, it feels punishing just to exist.

There is an element of RNG on where the guardian spawns, which is fine, but perhaps consider making sure it always spawns a little bit away from the level entry point.

And here's the positive feedback:

The deity/class/race customization is pretty sweet. I'm sure you fully intend people to min-max the crap out of this but I had a blast just choosing a combo I fancied.

Piety is a fun concept.

The way Q W E R are set up is pretty interesting. If I get further in the game I'd imagine there's lots of fun combos you can have, which is something I'll look forward to.

The building system, whilst complex, is fun and definitely one of the best parts of the map once you grasp it.

Definitely a map that's fun to play with people.

Thanks a lot for playing and taking the time to give some feedback

These are good criticisms and I'll try to respond to them in an organized way, heh. Although in general lot of my game design decisions come from being dissatisfied in different ways with other maps in the genre, although I've enjoyed them all. This project came out of wanting to make something different to play with my brother, not trying to recreate anything recognizable from wc3

* "amount of and size of tooltips" - like you said, all I can do is provide the significant information, plus there are plenty of simple maps available for everyone to play. I agree that it can be forbiddingly complex for someone looking to be grabbed by more immediately comprehensible systems. I am continually surprised by new players I don't recognize hosting it haha

* "the gold economy" I totally see how the coins could feel tedious, but I wanted to make it feel like DCSS (or other classic roguelikes, I don't mean wc3 roguelikes) and I like the positional risk of having to walk to the coins, rather than it just being a passive bounty

* "like an idle rpg" spammers / wizards with self heal combos are actually the most successful, but regardless there's so much going on I think keeping it to 4 active abilities (that can gain a limitless # of effects) brings back some chill and helps reduce the anxiety of complexity, as described in your first point

* "the balance sense" feelings of imbalance could definitely be related to expectations. The melee guys are definitely stronger in the early levels, like a DnD fighter, but later...Also, of course, the balance is always being modified and improved.

* "stunlocked" there is a small chance of mass mobs with the "shocking" prefix stunlocking - I've messed with the systems and it shouldn't really be happening. I agree it's bad if there's no counterplay. I haven't seen it happen in a while but will look into it again.

* "pathing" yeh, I can't really argue with that haha. I love random generation too much, and unfortunately wc3 pathing is...the way it is. It'll definitely bother some people more than others.

* "lack of fun / interesting items" says who?? haha, but seriously I do intend to at least triple the item pool, and I agree that "stat sticks" aren't interesting, and these make up the early permanents at the moment. One area in which this map falls short of what I want (based on classic roguelikes) is having more powerful active items early, like scrolls, that can solve a particular situation

* "ping the rift guardian" it does ping, when players enter the level. You could also type -g (I note this in quests). I also constantly lose track of it and will probably try to make it a constant ping, if that's possible

* "feels punishing just to exist" yeah personally I need that in order to feel excited in a game haha. My main concern is making sure there are solutions, which are less diverse than I'd like at the moment

* "where the guardian spawns" I intended to add a minimum distance, but the unexpected easy levels are such a relief...if the game enters another "easy" phase I'll consider it again haha

Again, I appreciate again the play + attention, and am a big fan of your work with orc glads. The redeeming value of wc3 (and Hive) IMO is this exchange / generation of gameplay ideas

Otherknownoise · Jul 26, 2020

Designing character is great, but I always died at level 3 (single player).

Summon units don't follow my hero and prefer to run straightly to traps.
Creeps are harder than bosses, and there're so many of them.

pick-a-chew · Jul 28, 2020

Hey again, just dropping by some more feedback! Actually completed the game this time as a holy dwarf knight.

This could just be a learning curve issue but it would be nice to be able to sell (or move) buildings, or at least the circles, because sometimes you put them in places that would benefit actual structures more instead (more touching structures). And when you realize you bummed up you're already quite late into the game! And also because building with other people can be a bit awkward.
Potion drinking before the final boss is a thing, and uh, the king of color died almost instantly. Suggestion: make potions not work in the rest area OR clear all items out of the rest area (item stockpiling can be a good or bad thing). Also: we had a guy with 20k gold which is where the potions came from
Some transparency on how summons scale would be nice, it wasn't very clear how the power of my Army of Light was being calculated which prevented me from building intelligently. Is it based on hero stats? Or the current level?

Was a fun run though

Ulfsire · Aug 3, 2020

pick-a-chew said:
Hey again, just dropping by some more feedback! Actually completed the game this time as a holy dwarf knight.

This could just be a learning curve issue but it would be nice to be able to sell (or move) buildings, or at least the circles, because sometimes you put them in places that would benefit actual structures more instead (more touching structures). And when you realize you bummed up you're already quite late into the game! And also because building with other people can be a bit awkward.

Potion drinking before the final boss is a thing, and uh, the king of color died almost instantly. Suggestion: make potions not work in the rest area OR clear all items out of the rest area (item stockpiling can be a good or bad thing). Also: we had a guy with 20k gold which is where the potions came from

Some transparency on how summons scale would be nice, it wasn't very clear how the power of my Army of Light was being calculated which prevented me from building intelligently. Is it based on hero stats? Or the current level?

Was a fun run though

That's an awesome win! First step for addressing the money-saver / potion strat is to put that shop in the level

I added some clarity for Order of Light / Death Lord summons - in general if the scaling isn't stated, it means it scales with level, but it says this nowhere - I will address that eventually.
Added a bunch of active item abilities, encouraged by your feedback!

0.6.0
-FIXED a game-breaking bug involving attributes lowered past 0
-updated Order of Light and Death Lord structure tooltips to show scaling / better readability
-universally reduced gold drops and ability damage of stronger enemies
-added a damage-type resistance to most enemies (50%, then a flat reduction that scales with level, will be enumerated in Quests in the future)
-added Bronze Drake, Black Drake and Hydra enemies
-updated all strong (3x combos + artifacts) items to have active abilities, except Holy Icon
(example: Robe of the Stars lets you teleport yourself AND all nearby allies, Void Escutcheon summons a Shadow Horror etc)
-The Bazaar now spawns in the level
-The level start will now have a far minimum distance from the Guardian
-the Guardian can now be strong enemies (not bosses, but stuff like Wyverns, Sauroks etc)
-The Guardian will be defended by a group of enemies of a random type

TO COME: -more mechanical explanations (of Resistances, inherent enemy abilities,...) in the map, either in Quests or somewhere more visible
-more enemy abilities

0.6.1
HOTFIX - a bug was introduced where the waygate couldn't be entered, this has been fixed

0.6.2
HOTFIX + balancing
-FIXED bug where the level 30 Guardian would be one of the minions defending the King
-lowered enemy damage universally
-gave all heroes +500 base health
-reduced the stat transfer of "Hive"
-made "Snow" and "Locumancer" less visually distracting

0.6.3
LAST HOTFIX FOR NOW
-removed "minimum distance" start point that was causing waygate bug - will be reworked at some future point

Ulfsire · Aug 5, 2020

0.6.4
-Fixed some tooltips
-RELIGION BUFF - to make the other faiths comparable to Oros in fun and power
-Hammash now grants healing from potions of fire and an extra fireball
-Ninhurs healing from health potions increased
-Tengri now grants +5 piety from any Imbue structure as well (except Blood + Earth), increased healing from Jigari death
-Dorok now gains piety from and grants charges to potions of might
-Ani healing on unclean enemy death increased, now grants charges to potions of wisdom
-potions of wisdom intellgience gain increased
-Mot now gains piety every level, bonus damage from Astral Blessing increased
-Eresh now grants a Deathbolt on Rod of Undeath use that heals for the damage dealt, and grants 2 charges every level
-Ragara now grants healing on use of Strike or Throw, Curse protection from Cursed Blood increased
-worshipping Self now gains piety every level, gives +1 all attributes every level and a piety/chance for +2 random attribute
-FIXED Hydra regen, was accidentally getting set at some horrific exponential number
-Runes now get +1 charge every level
-split Imbue into "Enchantments" and "Lordship" in preparation for more elemental army traits

0.6.5
-FIXED Master Ring now actually restores mana
-REWORK All summons now path to the guardian, then the boss, then a random point - when one is slain, they should be given an order for the next point in this sequence
-REWORK Hero cast Spell now costs 25 mana, let's see how this plays out
-Added "Stone-Speech" to Imbue->Lordship - summons Mudmen (Earth)

0.6.6
-made vitality / mysticism effects trigger AFTER stat loss of temporary STR / INT
-Mudmen now temporarily grants +1 STR on death
-added Blue + Red Drake
-robe of the stars should no longer target waygates

Skopetski · Aug 11, 2020

Me and my friend had a real good time playing this for hours the other day! Keep developing this map and it will become a real masterpiece.

I also vote to rid of the coins, atleast those that drop from enemies and are not already spawned.

disruptive_ · Aug 12, 2020

Skopetski said:
Me and my friend had a real good time playing this for hours the other day! Keep developing this map and it will become a real masterpiece.

I also vote to rid of the coins, atleast those that drop from enemies and are not already spawned.

A good compromise could be that the coins are automatically picked up just by passing. This would require some triggers though.

deepstrasz · Aug 13, 2020

OK, played this on 1.31.1, adapted the map for it thanks to Drake53

No item stack (potions for example?)
Should remove the last - from Intelligence since it says nothing after it.
Can this be played in 1 player? I have a hard time facing numerous enemies even in level 1. At least in the first game I was massacred by some strong creeps.
Maybe because of the patch version difference some descriptions look like (no hotkey)
Since the enemy belongs to the same player, if there's too many units they will stutter and queue orders.
Shouldn't your hero fully regenerate after completing a level?
A spider came through the waygate to the safe zone.
Ice trap ice FX should be only removed with potions?
Boy, those Shadow Horrors... Lucky I used a Fire Potion and some Arcane Focus on the creeps I had no idea they were even guardians
Level 3 dragons totally massacred me.

It's a lovely Strategy RPG but the difficulty seems random at times.

Approved.

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Rifleman · Jul 17, 2024

The map is amazing 5/5
but my only problem is difficulty is it really normal to die on level 7 ? i played with 2 other people and that was our high score
we figure out eveything (i think) and we did know how to play the map and what to do but still enemies power curve seems a lot
but i had the same felling about the ROGUE game ( The game that released in 1980 ) so i think its cool?
some enemies are deadly that can be find quite early for example we find a golem around level 5 that literally oneshoted us i was playing as Eresh faith and Knight with Lord of death imbue and i charge at him with all of my undeads the bro literally one tapped all of my army as well as me i think its a normal thing in rogue games that you need to have experience to know what is what but still that golem seems a little to much

Halithor · Jul 17, 2024

In my experience, you need to find something somewhat 'broken' or good items to get super far in the game. That's kinda by design. I've had some fun finding the busted combos that lead to a win. There is an end boss and I think it's at level 20 ( I think 20, it's been a while since I've played). I've beaten this end boss before with a team of 4.

Also, if you want a single player experience similar to this game. Ulfsire has made a game outside of WC3 called Path of Achra (found on Steam) that is the spiritual successor to this Roguelike game.

Ulfsire's Roguelike 0.6.7

Ulfsire'sRoguelike0.6.7 (Map)

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