Roguelike 2.6

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Roguelike!
Created by DeathdruidX

Map Info

Roguelike is a dungeon crawling RPG. Most of the game is randomized, leading to different items, different enemy locations, trap placement, etc, every time you play. Despite the random factor, it's very possible to salvage a run that's less than ideal by playing smart and being safe.
You don't need a big party to play it, either. It's very possible to complete, even to the extra final boss, with only two people. The main game can be completed with almost every hero when they're alone, provided the player is willing to be patient. That said, I recommend having a group. The game's far more fun with a bunch of people, even if adding too many can make it harder.

Features


  • 24 Heroes, all with unique kits. Very few spells are reused and no heroes play anything like any others. Even your meatshields and carries have variety.
  • Even within these heroes, players can customize their playstyles based on their team. The Knight can become an impenetrable tank or a durable fighter. The Psychic could be specialized as a heavily defensive support or a fully capable frontline fighter.
  • Eight massive areas each with their own sets of enemies, traps, events and bosses. With a different boss and different enemy placement every time, each corner will be a possible deathtrap to even the most experienced of players.
  • Extra bosses lie in wait at the end of each area. Players can challenge these bosses for incredible rewards and levels, but each boss is a force entirely on their own and fully capable of wiping a party. However, should they all be defeated, the game will have an additional set of levels including an extra boss whose difficulty far exceeds the rest of the game.
  • More than 100 items in the pool of random tools that the players will find. Powerful active items completely turn the tide of battle and passive items mold wimpy explorers into brave dungeon delvers.
  • Lore! Lots of lore! Every hero has a backstory, as does every boss, area, item, etc. Should the players complete the game in its entirety, every hero has their own ending!
  • Brutal difficulty that challenges every player, even those that know the tricks behind every boss and area. Few ever see the end of the labyrinth...
  • NEW! (Version 2.21) Has a soundpack, giving great music while you get eaten alive!
  • New! (Version 2.35) The player endings have been re-added. For those that played the old versions, some of you missed it and their removal was to make room for something else that...didn't work out. Long and short is that they're back.
Some other things to know...


When I say the difficulty is brutal, I mean it. At least, it should be. Some runs will bless your Rogue with cleave, durability, invulnerability and crits. Others will have him praying that he could even get a Small Rock as a weapon. Such is the nature of a game with an entirely random generation of items and bosses. If something goes wrong, don't be upset. Strengthen your resolve and give it another go. Or come back here and tell me I'm a bad mapmaker, as this is also true.

Also there is now a Discord! - https://discord.gg/UjSEcgyFbA


Screenshots and Videos


Big thanks to Vidya Only for playing and recording the game. Note that some information you get in the video may be slightly outdated.


Unfortunately, all of these come from the same game. I'll add more at some point, probably when this version gets updated.
Image Description:
A screenshot of the Depths, the first area. In this image, you can see several of the early enemies and Beelzebub, the first boss.

CMVmm2P.png

Image Description:
A screenshot of the Overgrowth, the second area. This is the Sinner and Priestess battling the extra boss of this area. This also gives a snippet of the lore from the game, showing the Sword of the Dawn.

fBxl8LU.png

Image Description:
A screenshot of the Piercing Cold, the fifth area. As the party first landed in the area, they were unfortunately met with great resistance from the residents. They pressed on, but met with untimely demise from a boss near the game's end. Such a shame.

n79IoM1.png




Changelog
Fixed a few minor bugs from related to map protection.


Changelog
Updated Hotkeys
Assassin's Assassinate logic changed, but functionally still roughly the same. Cloak of Shadows reworked.
Psychic's Psionic Storm now deals more damage.
Death Knight's healing up, Death Coil CD up early, Life Drain CD down. Runeblade and Dark Armor functionality changed.
Magus Thor's Hammer functionally change, Heatblast CD down
Spellblade Dimension Blade updated, Runic Blade name changed to Essence Reaper. Bug fixed with mana regain.
Priestess' Inspire now gives slightly more armor and actually lasts the appropriate duration.
Shinobi reworked, though still very similar to how he was the previous patch.
Sinner Gluttony actually works the way it's supposed to now.
Guardian's slam damage and cooldown up.


Changelog
Fixed the game crashing via Fire Mages/Aguni.
Shinobi has been completely reworked.
Hotkeys changed for abilities to a more suitable set.


Changelog
Probably the last version unless anything critical comes up.
Hero unique endings and the code to reveal the secret hero have returned.

Changelog
Heroes
Guardian - Less tanky, but a bit more damage to compensate.
Overlord - Damage down, durability down. Should be more reasonable.
Magus - Cooldowns on Fire/Ice spells down. Cooldown on Thor's Hand up. Cast time on innate up.
Spellblade - Damage on Dimensional Blade fixed. For real this time.
Alchemist - Fixed several bugs related to his passive/special.
Sinner - Reworked/Fixed Gluttony (the spell, not the sin).
Items
Mini Hakkero - Tooltip no longer says it has hero restrictions. It hasn't for a long time, but I kept forgetting to update it. Whoops.



Changelog
Spellblade
Dimensional Blade damage output significantly lowered.
Ritualist
Armor shredding abilities lowered, damage aura improved.
Sinner
Completely remade. Make sure to check him out (In a group).
Items
Super Greed's item has been nerfed.
3 new items added.
Other
Randoming a hero will now give a second tarot card.
Mycaruba now patrols the fire area once again.


Heroes
Small buffs - Dragon Lord, Shinobi, Psychic
Small nerfs - Guardian, Overlord
Huntress has been remade. She is now an agility carry that specializes rapidly clearing groups of enemies.
Sinner is now an Intelligence hero. This is a very temporary change and he is due for a remake next patch.
Others
The Cathedral has been completely remade into a more boss rush. This prevents players from waiting for every cooldown before fighting. The extra space of the Cathedral will be used for other things in coming versions.
Character endings have been removed for now.


Changelog
Heroes
These heroes have been partially reworked (mostly same abilities, some QoL changes) - Archer, Dragon Lord, Ghoul, Overlord, Psychic, Spellblade
These heroes have been mostly reworked (Thematically the same but mostly different in terms of kit) - Shinobi, Slayer
These heroes due for full reworks - Sinner, Huntress
(Check out the comments for more details and insight on these reworks)
Alchemist - Base attack speed nerf. Hitting that lategame, not that alchemist picking wretches will care.
Guardian - Taunt/slam cooldown increased, Protector heals for slightly less. The Guardian is overperforming a tad, but not too much.
Magus - Int gain down, damage down. Magus is op, but I'd rather not gut him. Just going to touch him down some for now and see where that takes it.
Enemies
Slight number changes to enemies found in the Darkness. Large enemy patch is on the way, but for now, staying as is.
No boss changes. Much like enemies, significant changes are on the way...but not yet.
Bugfixes
Cleaned some code, removed some memory leaks.
Fixed a bug where randoming the Magus would not give his spellbook.


General
Ultra Greed mode added
Fixed some pathing issues
Heroes
Magus - Full Rework
The Magus was in a strange place balance-wise, being both horribly over powered and hilariously weak. His rework is going to leave him in a better place to play as and with.
Ghoul - Buffs Buffed
The Ghoul's buffs often felt stiff, especially endgame. They are now far more usable and user friendly.
Sinner - Lust Reworked
Again. Lust has been remade as a damage dealing debuff.
Various heroes have had abilities remade into one point abilities that cost more than 1 lumber to learn. This is because levels in those abilities offered very little, now they can be one-point wonders as everyone needs them.
Items
Cleave ranges down
Fixed several item tooltips


Changelog
General
Updated a bunch of icons
Observers no longer can spawn heroes
Fixed multiple issues with the randoming system
Plugged some more leaks
Soundpack is finished! Look below for more details.

Heroes
Alchemist - Has a better money dump
The Alchemist can now spend money to permanently increase his attack damage.
Berserker - Furor lowers more armor
As it says.

Enemies
Seymour's summons no longer drop items.
Sloth has lower attack range and slows less movement speed.
Tiki's summon has been adjusted in the Cathedral.

Items
Demon Saint's Scroll is now accurate to the tooltip.
Belch Bomb replaced by a new item.

Other
Lunatic difficulty has had some adjustments, mostly around stunlocks.
Observers can now be spawned by any player.
Shopkeep shouldn't get stuck in the trees anymore.


Fixed a major bug with the Ancient.


Changelog
New Features
Multiple difficulties!
Safe area before the game starts, allowing players to spend their points in safety
Players can now random
Wall bosses have been fixed. Wall items also have been fixed. The Unstuck feature will stay in the game until next version just in case it messes up.


General
The event from the Darkness has been removed. It can be linked to numerous crashes, which really sucks for people who make it that far only to dc.
Numerous instances of spaghetti code fixed.

Heroes
Alchemist - Golden Sword reworked
Golden Sword is now Golden Gun. It can be used to exchange gold for attack damage in the very late game. This feels a bit better for an Alchemist than merely emptying those pockets.
Archer - Swift replaced
Swift was an amazing passive in the alpha of the game and the Archer has always been good enough it didn't need replaced. This has changed a bit, so she retains the ability of Swift but now has True Shot.
Assassin - Overall nerfed, Assassinate buffed
This is getting to be a common sight. The Assassin's boss killer is now weaker, but Assassinate is now reliable. Shadow Strikes is also now a one-point wonder.
Berserker - Berserker Fury Remade
Berserker Fury now scales better into lategame but now triggers when damaged rather than when attacking. This reinforces his position as a bruiser rather than a carry whose early game is tanky.
Death Knight - Dark Armor Remade
Dark Armor didn't serve much of a purpose. It now reflects a portion of the damage taken for a small amount of health cost each second.
Guardian - Aura Changed
Aura is now costless but has a longer cooldown. Excellent for when you've had a bit too much pizza to be using it.
Priestess - Mend and Inspire Buffed
Only slightly. The Priestess has always been good, but this will give her some more build paths.
Pugilist - Turtle Spirit Buffed
Fist of the Turtle Spirit is now fused with Meditation. This gives it a bit more idenity and utility.
Ritualist - Fantasy Seal and Spirit Mausoleum weaker early, stronger late
These two abilities really fall off when bosses have hundreds of armor. This change makes both much stronger in the endgame but lowers their early power as a result.
Shaman - Stun times slightly down
Exactly what it says.
Shinobi - High Evasion Cost Change
High Evasion now has a different cost formula. It's too powerful to cost so little.
Slayer - Anihilate and Silver Watch lategame buffed
Both abilities now have *some* effect on heroes, making the Slayer a reasonable choice as a carry rather than a gimmick for waveclear.
Spellblade - Mana Burst nerfed
This ability was way, way too strong. That's about it.
Warlock - Death Coil Buffed
Death Coil now restores its cost when used on a minion, allowing it to be used for free heals on summons.

Enemies
Leoric and Ostarion no longer have Fire Bolt.
Arthas has had his power lowered.
Gluttony doesn't grow to near as extreme of a size.

Fixes
Fixed a few tooltips.


Changelog
General
Defeating extra bosses is now a touch more cinematic.

Enemies
The Puppet Master has been remade. Happy hunting...
Locust Swarm abilities no longer cost mana, preventing abuse of early bosses that rely on it. However, the damage has also been slightly lowered to compensate.

Heroes
Archer - Damage increased
The Archer's physical damage has been slightly increased. Her recent remake has left her weaker than most carries, so this will start to bring her back in line.
Death Knight - At higher levels, Death Coil's cooldown is shorter
Early on, Death Coil provides literal infinite sustain for the Death Knight. Later on his health will be much higher, so it's fine for Death Coil's cooldown to be shorter.
Dragon Lord - Overall Buffed
The Dragon Lord was relatively weak for a tank, especially lategame. His numbers have been moved up some. That's all.
Overlord - Reworked Brave Swings
Brave Swings, much like the Shaman's Ethereal Spirit, now has only one level.
Warlock - Changed Hotkeys, lowered Death Coil's cost
As one person said, while the Warlock's hotkeys are what everyone else's is, the QWE keys work better with control groups. Simple QoL change. Death Coil has also had its mana lowered.

Fixes
Potential abuse of forcing traps to spawn in the Mage's Tower has been fixed.
The Sin spawning system has been changed in the hopes of it being less buggy.
Changed the wording of several tooltips for the sake of clarity.
Parasoul's armor bonus reworked.
Removed Cross Slash from the Warlock's upgrades. I don't know how the hell that ended up there.
Teal Player's wisp couldn't select heroes in one of the taverns. This has been fixed.
The Final Boss' warnings now properly disappear.
The game now properly recognizes when players leave.
Observer abuse will be harder to do.
Agni's Flames can no longer burn himself.
Many other very minor fixes.


Changelog

Balance Changes
General
Speedball has been remade.
Several paths opened in the Inferno and the Piercing Cold.
The Reaper event has been changed.

Enemies
The final boss has received some changes...

Heroes
Assassin - Reduced the base attack speed of the Assassin, changed Death Perception
The Assassin is extremely good at her job of killing heroes. Too good. She's getting touched down in the hopes that she'll be less overpowered at the endgame.
Archer - Replaced Critical Strike with Volley, lowered Aimed Shot cast time
The Archer was previously just a ranged Rogue. That was fine when she was created. There were only 6 heroes, after all. But now, she needs something to make her feel different. This comes in the form of Volley, her new spell.
Overlord - Damage down
The Overlord's damage has been slightly lowered. This will hopefully bring him more in line with other heroes.
Spellblade - New ability, Dimensional Blade CD down
The Spellblade needs some love, plain and simple. Emergency Mana has been removed, seeing as how it was mostly useless.

Others
Loggers now grant experience.
A few model updates/changes.
Invisible units now bestow auras. This only really effects the Assassin and Shinobi.
Pay attention during the endings...you might learn something interesting!
New Loading Screen and Minimap Preview!


Changelog

Balance Changes
Enemies
Gave The Reaper truestrike
Rebalanced the Cathedral. Certain rooms will be easier.
Increased Mad Jack's base stats but removed one of his ressurections.
Lowered the power of Arthas' illusions.
Increased the intensity of Death's Death Knell but increased the downtime.
Heroes
Knight - Reduced power of Iron Wall, Bold Leader and Reinforced Armor
The Knight was outperforming every tank in almost every regard. Seeing as how melee bosses are the most common type, his passive is too strong, as are his passive defensive bonuses.
Guardian - Increased base stat gain, buffed Protector and Unbreakable, adjusted Always Prepared
The Guardian is meant to be the definitive lategame tank but right now he's relatively weak. These changes won't hugely increase his power, but should bring him more in line with other tanks.
Warlock - Slightly increased summon stats
The Warlock currently doesn't scale well enough into lategame. Still, no major changes.

Fixes
Updated the Guardian's icons
Fixed the Warlock's Pact tooltip
Fixed the Truestrike tooltip
Fixed the Excalibur bug
Fixed (maybe) wall bosses.


Not much of a changelog for this version. Obviously there were changes before this one, but since those versions have never been posted here, it's a tad pointless to mention them.
However, there are a few issues with this version that were discovered after it was made.
Bosses and enemies will occasionally get stuck up on walls. This is most common in the third area, though it does happen in a few of the others. You can use the -unstuck command to create a dummy that will move the first unit it attacks off the wall and to its position. I'm not 100% sure how to fix this, but the unstuck command can be used to fix it in almost every situation. You could also use it to cheat and look ahead, but really, what kind of person would do that?
The other issue of note, though this is far less prevalent, is that Excalibur will make the hero who drops it lose 5 damage even if they didn't use the active. I'm currently looking into this and will ideally have it fixed soon.


Credits

Special Thanks:
  • Cman2002. Seriously, this guy has tested the game so many times. So. Many. Times. It would be a glitchy mess without him and I could never thank him enough.
  • Renamon and Zyrlin. They also tested the map constantly and caught some of the biggest bugs, even though they didn't test as often. Again, I can't thank them enough.
  • The rest of my friends that tested the map, Jakemaster64, MrPengyPoo, Guhjah/Vestakia. We've had a lot of fun...probably more suffering, but it came out alright.
  • Anyone else who plays the map. Seriously, even if you hate it, thanks for giving it a shot at least.


Expresso, Tranquil, Grendel, G2J, FreddyK, Judash, Callahan, Wandering Soul, Kimbo, Makuza, Terem, Frankster, Alastor, Sin'dorei300, Hexus, skrab, Mephestrial, Olof Moleman, wingednosering, eubz, Sellenisko, The Weird Human, Kibasz, .KC, apaka
Loading Screen - Ryosios on Pixiv
Map Preivew - Zinnkousai3850 on Pixiv

Soundpack

Check out the game's soundpack! This allows it to have music but still be under 8mb for Bnet play. Simply unzip the file and put it in your Warcraft 3 folder. It should look like this (varying on your OS, of course)
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Warcraft III\Roguelike\(the mp3 files and credits)"
I make no promises this'll work...but it should. It does for most of my friends, so I reckon it will probably work for most people.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/vr7n9x/_files/Roguelike.zip
Author's notes


First map released to the public. While it definitely isn't my first work, it's the only one I have any pride in because it's the only one that isn't total garbage.
Map Description Template Created by -Kobas-
Find more here: Map Description - Templates



Keywords:
Roguelike, Roguelite, Dungeon Crawler, RPG, Co-op
Contents

Roguelike 2.6 (Map)

Reviews
23:20, 6th Apr 2015 Orcnet: I like the concept of this dungeon crawler, giving random starter locations whenever a new map starts, somehow I am having a hard time spotting what enemy unit is causing a quick death upon my push against the enemy...

Moderator

M

Moderator

23:20, 6th Apr 2015
Orcnet:

[img]http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/194715-albums6441-picture75028.png[/img]


I like the concept of this dungeon crawler, giving random starter locations whenever a new map starts, somehow I am having a hard time spotting what enemy unit is causing a quick death upon my push against the enemy lines for some reason, so I keep restarting the game and there is it again I die on a fight that I know I'm on stable ground. I'm guessing there is a unit that has extreme base damage, a 1 shot spell kill, or a trigger that quickly kills a unit. I would be nice if such mechanism does not apply for this massive hero arena map, it would be problematic.

Another is the Pill item, its so random it doesn't even need to be useful, it either dis-function my team against the enemy or its just minimally restores health or mana upon my weight, I suggest the pill would be useful for better hero consumables such as random speed, damage, increase exp, etc. Instead of those other junk that decreases X for no reason.

I had no problems with the terrain however, it would be great if you can atleast dish some walkable doodads and add a nice tile variations for each map starter for the game, this would give not only visual look, but also more play value for the game.

Overall, the map can be approved.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

Great map, had some funny hours!
Tho, some heroes are clearly too strong, many hosts already tend to ban some heroes .

Bosses and enemies will occasionally get stuck up on walls
Yeah, if you fail at unstuck, it runs into another area and game is over...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30
Great map, had some funny hours!
Tho, some heroes are clearly too strong, many hosts already tend to ban some heroes .


Yeah, if you fail at unstuck, it runs into another area and game is over...

Mind elaborating on who is too strong? I do plan on furthering balance. I only had a few testers and we generally used the same heroes, so I'm sure there's some issues we missed with balance.

As for the unstucking, I am aware I need to make a better system. I'll see if I can push that out for the next version.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

Mind elaborating on who is too strong?
To be honest, it is some time ago I played this, so I cannot remember all, sadly. I remember hosts banning Sinner, Knight and Bersercer, if am not wrong. There were a few more, but I cannot remember their names.

I only had a few testers and we generally used the same heroes
I am actually surprised about this. I saw like ..20 games and even more, some players already are 'pro' and know all basics and advanced details, I cannot believe you lack review of this game.

For the unstuck, maybe add pathing blockers ? I am sure there are a few opportunities to avoid the current problems.
 
Level 5
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
30
To be honest, it is some time ago I played this, so I cannot remember all, sadly. I remember hosts banning Sinner, Knight and Bersercer, if am not wrong. There were a few more, but I cannot remember their names.


I am actually surprised about this. I saw like ..20 games and even more, some players already are 'pro' and know all basics and advanced details, I cannot believe you lack review of this game.

For the unstuck, maybe add pathing blockers ? I am sure there are a few opportunities to avoid the current problems.

Yeah, the Knight's been a problematic. He's already marked down for some minor nerfs. I wouldn't know about the Berserker, but I'm willing to bet the Sinner gets banned because he's weak and hosts don't want anyone playing him. As for pathing blockers, I'll give it a shot at least.

Some changes will be made and hopefully I can get an updated version up this weekend.
 
Level 2
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
11
'Ello. A friend and me have been playing this for a while, and it's really been fun trying to find synergizing heroes and such. Dark Knight/Warlock two-man was pretty fun, though it took us a while to actually get a run that we won on. Maybe what, four, five days? It was a little less than a week, I think.

On the topic of Sinner... ... Sinner is silly. If he doesn't die, and eats the first three Sins from the starting area, along with the Wraith Knight? Dear god. We beat that session in like thirty minutes. It was absurd.

Anyway, what I'm really tying to say, is thanks for making a fun and variable map. I mean it, we're still trying to beat the game once with at least each hero.
 
Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
14
Gosh this map is good and funny BUT there are stuff that need to be done.
I played for quite a while and after a few failed games i finally had a good start.
I reached up to Death the horseman of the apocalypse i killed him and i was at full health and i instantly died... Like what the heck.
Why did i play for 1 hour to die from god knows what.
If such things happen you could die at any moment and then what a new game ...
I suggest you to make it so you could respawn but with long timer or something like 5mins.
Or put ankhs at the acolyte vendor which cost lumber or idk.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

I suggest you to make it so you could respawn but with long timer or something like 5mins.
Or put ankhs at the acolyte vendor which cost lumber or idk.
I doubt the majority of players will enjoy this suggestion. Adding the opportunity to respawn, I don't know, makes the game less hard and it does not fit this game, in my opinion.
 
Level 9
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
576
I played as knight and owned everyone without a doubt (solo play).

The goblin which kept respawning was weird, he reached like 1500dmg because of this so I had to cheat to kill him (because I already killed him 10 times so it wasn't fair :D).
The puppetmaster got me but I saved right before and i reloaded but it kept crashing.
Also the map takes too long to load, such a shame for a simple map.

And now I start to play as Sinner (in solo) and after 3 bad start I'm making it through. However he looks boring to play.
 
Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
14
I doubt the majority of players will enjoy this suggestion. Adding the opportunity to respawn, I don't know, makes the game less hard and it does not fit this game, in my opinion.

Well yea it's not a good option but if there are unexpected deaths and shit.
I guess it's still an option i don't know if it's a bug or something.
I've played other maps with perma death and i've completed them but there were no sudden deaths i owned that boss my hp was full and i died just like that.
What is that I'm against playing a map where you could not revive and you could die out of nowhere.
No im going to try it one more time and if i die once again from some bug i'll give up.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

I guess it's still an option i don't know if it's a bug or something.
If it is supposed to happen, I would recommend the creator to remove it. It is just dumb, especially in single player, to die in a perma death game this way, although it is avoidable.
 
Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
14
If it is supposed to happen, I would recommend the creator to remove it. It is just dumb, especially in single player, to die in a perma death game this way, although it is avoidable.

Yea exactly i would understand if it was a multiplayer game and there was a class which could somehow revive a hero or something.
But it's a single player game and you die suddenly without noticing anything and it's just game over like 1 hour gameplay what a waste of time.
I thought of an idea how about putting on difficulities like for an example easy/medium/hard( 2 respawns/ 1 respawn/perma death)
This is as long as this instant death could not be fixed .
 
Last edited:
Level 2
Joined
Jun 24, 2011
Messages
11
If it is supposed to happen, I would recommend the creator to remove it. It is just dumb, especially in single player, to die in a perma death game this way, although it is avoidable.

It actually is supposed to happen. When Death does the green circle thing on you, you die if he dies. So you just have to wait it out before killing.
 
Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
14
Are those boss mechanics explained anywhere or not.
Because i haven't seen them mostly it's so crowded and everything happens so fast that i cannot notice anything just you died , you died ...
I died on the damn goblin at the 3rd area just like that.
 

Ardenian

A

Ardenian

Are those boss mechanics explained anywhere or not.
Because i haven't seen them mostly it's so crowded and everything happens so fast that i cannot notice anything just you died , you died ...
I died on the damn goblin at the 3rd area just like that.
You will after some times of playing this game. I doubt there is anywhere a guide, but this game is, in my opinion, supposed to be played often so you get a feeling about how things work and such.
 
Level 1
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
4
So I've been playing the game almost religiously since 1.2 on Makemehost.
Yeah I ban Sinner because half the new people see "Not for inexperienced players" and decide they're better than everyone else (They are not). It's frustrating how many times that can happen though.

On a sidenote I want to ask about the Envy disconnect bug, do you know why that happens?
Also it's such an epic game, please tell me if you're trying to test new versions, I love playing this game and it really brings the element of an unforgiving Roguelike to life.
 
Level 21
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
6,215
Hmm. WoW, an RPG! Will give it a try later.
I think it's better and more attractive if you added a preview minimap.

P.S. I saw an item using the Union Jack as an icon in one of the screenshots. I am curious, what is that item? And what it does?
 
Level 2
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
19
I love playing roguelikes and this map is heading in the right direction.
I don't mind perma-death (I play roguelikes for that challenge), but the map loads too slowly for restarts.

I like the references in this game like Binding of Isaac, Touhou(!), etc. Thumbs up for those. I see you also like difficult games. :p

Suggestions:
  • Use a different color/model for pills, tarots and equipment.
  • Open up more paths, especially in the Fire/Ice areas. It's a whole new level of annoying to circle around half the area just to reach a place that's just 300 units away.
  • Reduce the size of some trees in the forest area.
  • Please nerf the 'Bad Trip' pill. Make it drain 50% of current HP, instead of the almost-insta-kill abomination right now.
  • On topic of pills, reduce the price of pills in the shop, because they're not very useful. Getting a Tarot you already have is better than a random Strength down.
  • Last but not least, even more variety. More kinds of enemies, more items, more varied terrain, etc.
 
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I agree with your post, regarding the textures of some stuff, but could someone explain to me what defines the load rate? I mean it's definitely gone down some since 1.5 but it is still quite long.

On the topic of pills, it's supposed to be mirroring the Binding of Isaac pills, also you're not meant to be using them in battle, that will just ensure your death :p
I'm not sure what it brings you down to, but 5% of your full life should be an okay trade in my opinion. It is random luck after all
 
Level 2
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On the topic of pills, it's supposed to be mirroring the Binding of Isaac pills, also you're not meant to be using them in battle, that will just ensure your death :p
I'm not sure what it brings you down to, but 5% of your full life should be an okay trade in my opinion. It is random luck after all
I got 5 bad trip pills in a single area. :(

BoI pills are actually very, very useable. You can eat every unknown pill you see because Isaac remembers which colored pills are bad.
I even got the PhD item in this map, which prevents pills from having negative effects, but it's just a huge waste of inventory space because all effects are lackluster. Maybe giving positive effects a boost will make that item better.

Pill Suggestions
Positive pills: Full Health, Full Mana, +2 random stat, +50 MaxHP, +5 Movement speed, +50 gold, some buffs
Negative pills: 75% current HP damage, Drain Mana, -2 random stat, Taunt enemies in a huge area, -50 gold, some debuffs

Already finished this map twice (solo) with Rogue and the Archer. That Bone Necklace + Sword of Deep-Seated is just too good. :p
My archer's damage got so high in the cathedral, the Archangel lasted <5 seconds.

Does the Silver Knife (Agility = extra chaos damage) work? I didn't notice any change in my DPS when I used it.
 
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I found a bug

if you have a speedball, and then spam it (prefer ghoul, because the manapool and primary attribute is agi) then use a tarot card that convert 10% of your attribute into lumber, the agi from speedball stay permanent
 
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Messages
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Overall very good and refreshing map. Loved the Touhou references.

Sometimes you just want to grind some RPG with friends, but every single decent one was already played. This one provides unheard amounts of replayability, which is very good.
The only real gripe I have with it is that Priestess is the only real healer in the game. Yes, some other characters have ways of healing, but they are so much worse that you almost have to have a Priestess on your team (unless you get extremely good drops I guess, but I prefer consistency). When you have 24 characters and 1 is a must-have it's kinda disappointing.

Bug found: If you have a Rod of Remorse (+720 damage item) and remove it with "0: The Fool" (the only way to remove it as per description of item) then negative effect remains (you still get reduced to 1 HP after every Sin).
 
Level 14
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Played it for some hours with 2 friends.

Feels fresh and fun, here are some suggestions:

Could use custom music
Could use difficulty options
Maybe make ankh drops possible/buyable?

You mostly used default abilities and changed them somewhat, wherefore it's interesting that it kept us playing for several hours. We are also planning to play it again occasionally.

Thus recommended!
 
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Woah new Version! Nice nice! I like your loading screen did you happen to get it from ryosios's Haru-chan graffiti series from Pixiv? Meh....not that i care though. Anyways love the new look, always trying to finish it solo mode :) Fav. Pugilist ~
 
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Real fun map. I absolutely love the lore behind it, especially Envy's green eye :D.
On the third try picked a sinner and died in several mobs, because one of them became a sin :D
On the fourth run picked a guardian and beastmoded to the frozen wastes without dropping even 10% of HP.

Bugs found:
(I would add them here unless new page starts)
* Teal player can't choose heroes from left tavern because his wisp is out of range. Possibly orange too.
* Parasoul doesn't give any armor.
* It seams like Puppet Master doesn't trigger properly if you enter the chamber under the Sun card effect. (Need further testing)
* Sayer's aura increases def of monsters if they are in the negative naturally.
* Archer's burning arrow consumes mana on manual cast, but not firring the arrow if range wasn't scaled enough.
* I had 7500 HP and 4000 max empty mana bar. for 30-40 minutes temperateness card was working fine, but then it killed me. Should it really be lethal?
* Two warning messages (trueshot aura) don't get cleared at the bottom of the boss room, making it unable to pick up regen runes.
* Lizard split onto the cliff couldn't reappear, thus leaving no artifact behind. ... No it reappeard fuck knows where) (split in the left corner of second zone, but appeared around the corner at the entrance to the second level (section)
** Emperor's rune. Does that text in description mean that you need to kill 1 sin _in current location_ before summoning it? In magic temple I activated it before and nothing happen. Then I found sin and slain it, but even thou 2-3 greater sins still remained in the for summoning - they never appeared.

*** Dragon blaze ability tooltip: "...WHILE this flame is active" not "With", because it mean that he is attacked by his own flame guard.
*** Add message when player leaves the game. It's more like a preference, but it help when playing with random people. You check if they are still there to make sure you're not talking to the wall.
*** Rework brave swings for Overlord, so he would regain movement speed over time. Let's say 4 seconds he -60% and then -45% to -30% on the last 2 seconds, because it's strange to see him move like that.

** Unstuck maphack. In case it didn't attack kill player's hero. This kind of stuff should be punished.
** Unstuck move back. Abuse for moving around your hero.

** Faith and Bone necklace are completely broken in the long run, but I don't complain about it, because I managed to beat the game at least once with the soldier)
** Elemental temple has a hing level of abuse IF you managed to find a Virus and Pizza and happen to run a str hero)

* Does Party cannon even exist?)
 
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Level 3
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I take my words back. Solo beastmode is berserker with bone necklace in first location, so in the Illian's citadel with all the buffs to attack he smashes for 20k per hit. Next in the beastmode list is that greedy bastard goblin, with temporary +1k int for gold abuse, but he is nowhere close to berz. Not by a long shot.
But who knows, maybe great start with siner would make me eat my words again.
... And it has...

Strat: Guardian + Dragon lord in front with his flame guard = forever tank. Restores 110 HP at every started attack against him.
 
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Level 5
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May 2, 2009
Messages
30
Let me try and address a bunch of the recent posts...


Could use custom music
I wish. Unfortunately, the file size of the map is already damn huge. If I can find a way I'll do it, but it's probably not gonna happen.
Difficulties options
Definitely something that's on the way. Unfortunately, I don't want the difficulty options to just be "these monsters have higher stats." It needs to be something that really adds to the experience, which is what I'm struggling with.
Maybe make ankh drops possible/buyable?"
Probably not, though maybe on an "Easy" difficulty. Permadeath is a huge part of most Roguelikes. Fun fact, the Alpha version's Priestess actually had a revive spell.
You mostly used default abilities and changed them somewhat, wherefore it's interesting that it kept us playing for several hours.
Yeah, I kinda like abilities on the simple side. As interesting as complex heroes can be, I don't want to perform advanced trigonometry when trying to use my abilities.



I like your loading screen did you happen to get it from ryosios's Haru-chan graffiti series from Pixiv?
Yep! I really love Ryosio's art. Like, a lot.



* Parasoul doesn't give any armor.
It does, but only if your armor is above 10. There's also an odd bug with it that makes you required to drop it and pick it up to refresh the armor (say when your armor goes up to 15 and you want the extra armor). Unfortunately I'm not exactly sure what to do about that. That goes with the Slayer bug you found, too. Just something about how Devotion Aura with %'s works. Not sure how to fix that.

* It seams like Puppet Master doesn't trigger properly if you enter the chamber under the Sun card effect. (Need further testing)
That's because he triggers based on who he attacks. If you're invulnerable, he can't hit you so the effect won't start until he can acquire a target.

* I had 7500 HP and 4000 max empty mana bar. for 30-40 minutes temperateness card was working fine, but then it killed me. Should it really be lethal?
Did you use it when your mana was 0, or did something else happen? If you used it when your mana was 0, that's why it killed you. Else, I'm not sure but can look into it with some more details.

* Lizard split onto the cliff couldn't reappear, thus leaving no artifact behind. ... No it reappeard fuck knows where) (split in the left corner of second zone, but appeared around the corner at the entrance to the second level (section)
That's part of the reason for the "-unstuck" command. Else, it's mostly just an unintended consequence of the way Larry works.

** Emperor's rune. Does that text in description mean that you need to kill 1 sin _in current location_ before summoning it? In magic temple I activated it before and nothing happen. Then I found sin and slain it, but even thou 2-3 greater sins still remained in the for summoning - they never appeared.
I'm aware that the Sin spawning system is currently buggy and am working on a new one. Unfortunately my coding is a bit on the weak side, so these things kinda happen sometimes.

** Unstuck maphack. In case it didn't attack kill player's hero. This kind of stuff should be punished.
** Unstuck move back. Abuse for moving around your hero.
Can you clarify a bit?

** Faith and Bone necklace are completely broken in the long run, but I don't complain about it, because I managed to beat the game at least once with the soldier)
There's some broken items, no doubt. There's some mostly useless items too. That's part of a Roguelike, though.
** Elemental temple has a hing level of abuse IF you managed to find a Virus and Pizza and happen to run a str hero)
Do you mean the third area or the boss rush area?

* Does Party cannon even exist?)
Hell yeah! One of my favorite items, too. Keep in mind, the pool of items is high...over 100, so the chances of encountering one specific item in the same run you get Super Lust's item is pretty rare.



Can't load saved game, game crash..
Not really a huge concern of mine. Roguelikes aren't meant to be save-scummed.



Paarthurnax and odahviing not walking. Trust me im a Dragonborn
Sorry about that, Dragonborn. They're merely named after Paarthurnax and Odahviing, not the real deal.


Sorry if I didn't address something, but it means I already have a note down about it from my own testing and/or it's already been changed in the most recent version.
Thanks for all the great feedback, look forward to new versions soon!
 
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> It does, but only if your armor is above 10.
Not really. I had over 30 armor on goblin the greeder, but it not only gave nothing, but also took half a point.

> That's because he triggers based on who he attacks. If you're invulnerable, he can't hit you so the effect won't start until he can acquire a target.
Why not reworking the boss trigger to "Any unit enters region [place_where_portal_sends_you] starts countdown timer 6 sec. When timer expires he spawns those women.

> these things kinda happen sometimes.
Hmm. ok.

> That's part of a Roguelike, though.
A matter of luck.

> Did you use it when your mana was 0
Yes, it did. But should this be lethal? 1 hp for zero mana doesn't sound like that big of a difference.

> Can you clarify a bit?
* free tp anywhere on the map with huge flying vision. You should at least restrict it to move n-distance from hero. Check before TP iIf it is out of "hero range" , so if it is - then kill it.
* attacking heroes can get them over cliffs and forest.

> Do you mean the third area or the boss rush area?
I meant that if hero set on patrool along any vertical side (between portals) he will activate enough spawn elementals traps to reach 100+ lvl from 30+ in 20 minutes or less. It's not that imbalance. It's just the way it is. Otherwise puppet master would be unkillable in solo runs. As for party runs grinding mobs is a boring thing to do, so few will do it, instead charge forward to clear next areas(with bigger xp rewards).
(It is possible to reach 316 lvl by the end of the game.)

* Warlock's cross slash upgrade does nothing.
* His Brute said to be on timer, but he isn't.
* !!! Faith doesn't give stats if Boss is killed with warlock's summons. Possibly bone necklace won't either, or even ghoul's passive wouldn't give him intelligence. Maybe it's just a warlock's thing. Look it up.
>> Faith doesn't work for warlock.
* Also if Agni burns himself on his flame - you get nothing. Period.
** High abuse potential: Warlock's summons don't trigger Puppet master. He only casts slow on them, but never attacks.
*** Warlock's ZXCVB spell shortcuts are tuned to game theme, but they are fairly inconvenient to use with control groups. Try QWER instead. B for augmentation is fine.

** Magus'es innate ability doesn't work properly, of just poorly described. He gains 1 int when he personally kills a mob, but other part, where he has to gain 5(!) int, when mob dies in general - doesn't.

** Puglist's innate ability isn't clear at all. It says that "% of agility is dealt in dmg with each attack", but is needed to say is "Each consequent attack further increases damage by agility*0.1*Abil_Lvl"
** Puglits's innate ability has an abuse potential. If you stop mid attack the bonus keeps staking, thus making possible to gain 20 stacks in 5 or less seconds with no AS or agi items.

** 2 seconds delay for teleport after you slain a bonus boss. After your party made an effort slaying him, it's more satisfying to see his fall.
** Bezelbub and such using their Swarm ability as you approach them, thus making it super easy to run away and weather the storm. After several hit and runs like this they are no more then a wet napkin.
** Could use custom music. There is a way, but it has to be specified. If WC3 doesn't find files needed in the map, then he searches for them in MPQ files and then in WC3 folder. This way you can add option to download music from somewhere and put it in specific folder.
 
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Level 2
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Jun 24, 2011
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11
Quick... question...

Is the Warlock supposed to have a skill called 'Cross Slash'? Sort of seems a bit misplaced.
 
Level 3
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> 'Cross Slash'? Sort of seems a bit misplaced.
Seems to be so.

Yesterday I envisioned my worst nightmare: Guideon with +150% dmg aura, lifesteal and crits. Well, it just came true. 20% for 1.8 crits + 10% lifesteal aura.
Ghoul that supposed to be tanky DD (50k hp, 5k dmg, crits 10% for 1.8 and 10% for double, illusion and APPLE BUCKET) was killed in a long ass 30 minutes fight, and was able to lower his HP to 30%.
Rougelike at it's best))
 
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Not really. I had over 30 armor on goblin the greeder, but it not only gave nothing, but also took half a point.
Strangely enough, it used to work fine. Yet, testing it this morning it seems you're right. I don't know what's wrong, but now it gives flat armor instead.

Why not reworking the boss trigger to "Any unit enters region [place_where_portal_sends_you] starts countdown timer 6 sec. When timer expires he spawns those women.
Soma has a rework coming up.

* free tp anywhere on the map with huge flying vision. You should at least restrict it to move n-distance from hero. Check before TP iIf it is out of "hero range" , so if it is - then kill it.
* attacking heroes can get them over cliffs and forest.
Alright. Good suggestion, I'll get on it.

I meant that if hero set on patrool along any vertical side (between portals) he will activate enough spawn elementals traps to reach 100+ lvl from 30+ in 20 minutes or less. It's not that imbalance. It's just the way it is. Otherwise puppet master would be unkillable in solo runs. As for party runs grinding mobs is a boring thing to do, so few will do it, instead charge forward to clear next areas(with bigger xp rewards).
(It is possible to reach 316 lvl by the end of the game.)
Well, I changed up some stuff with how the traps spawn and there's now a punishment for going too long with grinding.

* Warlock's cross slash upgrade does nothing.
Yikes. I have no clue how that ended up there...but it's gone now.


Faith doesn't give stats if Boss is killed with warlock's summons.
I'm aware that Bonetooth Necklace doesn't work with his summons, it isn't meant to. However, testing isn't reproducing that result...Could you throw me a replay? Maybe something else happened.

Also if Agni burns himself on his flame - you get nothing. Period.
Noted and fixed.
High abuse potential: Warlock's summons don't trigger Puppet master. He only casts slow on them, but never attacks.
Fixed with the Soma remake.
Warlock's ZXCVB spell shortcuts are tuned to game theme, but they are fairly inconvenient to use with control groups. Try QWER instead. B for augmentation is fine.
Good idea. Changed.

Magus'es innate ability doesn't work properly, of just poorly described. He gains 1 int when he personally kills a mob, but other part, where he has to gain 5 int, when mob dies in general - doesn't.
A lot like Faith, I'm not seein' it. Seems to work fine.

Puglist's innate ability isn't clear at all. It says that "% of agility is dealt in dmg with each attack", but is needed to say is "Each consequent attack further increases damage by agility*0.1*Abil_Lvl"
Reworded it. Should be fine now.
Puglits's innate ability has an abuse potential. If you stop mid attack the bonus keeps staking, thus making possible to gain 20 stacks in 5 or less seconds with no AS or agi items.
That's true, but by the time you get enough Agility and/or levels of his innate, abusing the stop glitch is mostly ineffectual.

2 seconds delay for teleport after you slain a bonus boss. After your party made an effort slaying him, it's more satisfying to see his fall.
Love the idea. Definitely going to do this one.

Bezelbub and such using their Swarm ability as you approach them, thus making it super easy to run away and weather the storm. After several hit and runs like this they are no more then a wet napkin.
Noted. I removed the mana cost, which should deal with this issue.

Could use custom music. There is a way, but it has to be specified. If WC3 doesn't find files needed in the map, then he searches for them in MPQ files and then in WC3 folder. This way you can add option to download music from somewhere and put it in specific folder.
Alright, I'll look into it. That said, it's kinda a minor concern compared to a lot of the things you've pointed out.


I'll do some testing with a few friends tonight and hopefully will be able to get a new version up either late tonight or early tomorrow.

Thanks for the help~
 
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> Noted. I removed the mana cost, which should deal with this issue.
Then reduce it's damage, because it is beastly against melee units/heroes. I'm not quite on the idea by how much, but it is definitely wrecks faces the way it is now.

> I'm aware that Bonetooth Necklace doesn't work with his summons, it isn't meant to. However, testing isn't reproducing that result...Could you throw me a replay? Maybe something else happened.
It was just an assumption based on Faith not working on warlock. Maybe you designed it to be that way. Who knows? (both summons or warlock killing the boss (with Faith on) gave him big and fat nothing)
I have autosave turned off, so reproducin it is too time consuming let along taking into account that it dropped only three times in total of 20 games sample. Maybe if you share an open map I could try to do it.

> That's true, but by the time you get enough Agility and/or levels of his innate, abusing the stop glitch is mostly ineffectual.
The same goes for blade that dealt damage based on agi. It helps a ton in the early game.

> Magus bug in single player with god mode.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/yqgevl/_files/Magus%20bug.w3g

* Sins appearance logic could be described better. Help file says that they can spawn twice per level, but does the second one count as first for the next region? Also, would it count as first for the next level, if you lure one into another area?

* Magic ribbon restores mana for every use of mana shield (Spellblade)
* Just now I had Anger sin spawned from Appetizer sin. I killed firs one with spellblade's force wave and that's what happened. Note: boss was still up.
* Mana shield triggers The Big dagger's bonus damage
That's it for now. Glad to see a responnd so fast :)
 
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Level 5
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Then reduce it's damage, because it is beastly against melee units/heroes. I'm not quite on the idea by how much, but it is definitely wrecks faces the way it is now.
Fair enough. I'll lower it a bit and adjust it later if it proves too weak or remains too strong.

It was just an assumption based on Faith not working on warlock. Maybe you designed it to be that way. Who knows? (both summons or warlock killing the boss (with Faith on) gave him big and fat nothing)
I have autosave turned off, so reproducin it is too time consuming let along taking into account that it dropped only three times in total of 20 games sample. Maybe if you share an open map I could try to do it.
Well, I've tried to reproduce it without results...but seeing as how Faith's code still looks like spaghetti, I'll clean it up some and see if that fixes it for others.

The same goes for blade that dealt damage based on agi. It helps a ton in the early game.
Well, that's fine. I'm not all that afraid of some items having tricks like that.

Magus bug in single player with god mode.
I could swear that replay normal to me, but I can take a look at the code regardless. Maybe remake it so there's no confusion involved. That's probably the route I'll go down.

Sins appearance logic could be described better. Help file says that they can spawn twice per level, but does the second one count as first for the next region? Also, would it count as first for the next level, if you lure one into another area?
Reading it again, I understand the confusion. I'll reword it.

Magic ribbon restores mana for every use of mana shield (Spellblade)
Mmm...I'll just add exceptions to the Ribbon's trigger for spells like that. Simple enough, but good catch regardless.

Just now I had Anger sin spawned from Appetizer sin. I killed firs one with spellblade's force wave and that's what happened. Note: boss was still up.
Yeah, ideally the newly made Sin system in 2.11 will stop things like that from happening.
Mana shield triggers The Big dagger's bonus damage
Same deal with the ribbon, I'll just throw in exceptions.
That's it for now. Glad to see a responnd so fast :)
Well, none of my buds are around so I'm mostly just lurking around forums looking for things to kill time.

As always, I appreciate the help. The new version probably ain't going to be ready tonight, but I'm willing to bet I can get it done by tomorrow afternoon.
 
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Level 3
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* Warlok = risk-free boss killer. Send his summons into the pit and let them rock!
* If previous loc has some mobs left and you push one of your summons through to the next it is possible to spawn another sin from the leftovers.
** How does the Emperor interact with default sin spawn system? Should you spawn one once you killed one, but before the stage boss, or it doesn't matter?
** Do additional bosses count as a refresh for sin spawn or not?
** Elemental temple has two bosses apart from Puppetier. How does sin spawn system work there? Rarely I get 3, but mostly 2.

** Warlock's 13k hp heal for 3k mp is unreasonable, making undead parties weak. On 316-th level he has 24000 mp = 8 heals total in the final boss room = 100k heal total. It may be enough. Who knows. This is first impression thou.
* Death card kills warlok's (maybe all other too) summons.

** If you want Guideon to have a true strike, but don't want to show "crit" numbers - set multiplier to 1 or 0. Can't remember exactly.

** Final battle: Room after Agni is empty, but two dogs run through the Cerberus'es once Yum is defeated.

*** Convenience measures:
It turned out that V is more natural hotkey for Pact, because you don't need to starch the thumb.
It would be nice to see Self cast on Warlock's Pact ability, so it would empower last created demon. In the heat of the battle it's much easier to click his portrait then search for them, or if there are lots of mobs in the area - make rectangular selection and then click the icon of preferred servant. Believe me, support players deeply appreciate small touches like this.
*** Write message to all players ([Hero_Class] has entered the Labyrinth.) when ally has chosen his hero. This saves some camera panning time for people playing with random stack. The less routine player has at the start of each and every game - the deeper he enjoys the game itself.
*** Also (Player has abandoned us) would be nice too.
 
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Level 3
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Jan 28, 2015
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I'm thinking about the "Gather room" - a place where all the heroes spawn at the start of the game. Right now they appear in the middle of the room with some corpses decaying on the ground. Just like that.
Look into this concept: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/xjwctf/_files/WC3ScrnShot_052415_180843_01.tga

It can be a start of the labirinth. When any creature comes to the area near - the door it shuts dead, creating an effect of ominous insecurity. This would state: either do or die.
 
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Level 5
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* Warlok = risk-free boss killer. Send his summons into the pit and let them rock!
I think that's one of the really cool things about the Warlock. Other carries definitely hit harder, but he brings a lot of security to a party. One of my favorite tricks with him is to leave the summon behind while running away. Makes for super safe disengages.
If previous loc has some mobs left and you push one of your summons through to the next it is possible to spawn another sin from the leftovers.
** How does the Emperor interact with default sin spawn system? Should you spawn one once you killed one, but before the stage boss, or it doesn't matter?
** Do additional bosses count as a refresh for sin spawn or not?
** Elemental temple has two bosses apart from Puppetier. How does sin spawn system work there? Rarely I get 3, but mostly 2.
I really need to clarify the Sin system, which I have noted for 2.11. Basically, the way it works is that there's a Boolean variable and an integer variable. When horrors die, the integer counts up and if it breaks past a point, a Sin spawns. However, it can't spawn if the Boolean trigger is set to false, which happens once a Sin spawns. This is to prevent them from spawning too frequently, which would be oppressive. Whenever a boss dies, be they an extra boss or a normal boss, the trigger is once again set to true and a sin can spawn again. I could have done a far better job of explaining it in the quests, which I promise will be updated.

Warlock's 13k hp heal for 3k mp is unreasonable, making undead parties weak. On 316-th level he has 24000 mp = 8 heals total in the final boss room = 100k heal total. It may be enough. Who knows. This is first impression thou.
Fair enough. Death Coil has mostly gone untested since I tend to not take it in favor of upgrading summons instead, so I don't know how well/unwell it functions. I'll lower the mana cost some and see if it becomes more useful.

Death card kills warlok's (maybe all other too) summons.
Kills summons from Jealous Eyes, Chaos Orb, etc, as well. It's intended.

If you want Guideon to have a true strike, but don't want to show "crit" numbers - set multiplier to 1 or 0. Can't remember exactly.
While I do know this, I kinda like it showing his exact damage.

Final battle: Room after Agni is empty, but two dogs run through the Cerberus'es once Yum is defeated.
Not gonna lie, I have no idea why that room is empty. It worked fine a few versions ago, went untouched, and now the bosses in it just die randomly at 5 seconds in. I'm looking into it, but sadly since I don't have any idea what's causing the problem it's hard to fix.

It turned out that V is more natural hotkey for Pact, because you don't need to starch the thumb.
His hotkeys were all updated in 2.11. Death Coil and Pact included.

It would be nice to see Self cast on Warlock's Pact ability, so it would empower last created demon. In the heat of the battle it's much easier to click his portrait then search for them, or if there are lots of mobs in the area - make rectangular selection and then click the icon of preferred servant. Believe me, support players deeply appreciate small touches like this.
I can see this working. I'll see what I can do.

Write message to all players ([Hero_Class] has entered the Labyrinth.) when ally has chosen his hero. This saves some camera panning time for people playing with random stack. The less routine player has at the start of each and every game - the deeper he enjoys the game itself.
I like that idea, too. This goes hand-in-hand with the other idea you posted about the gathering room.
 
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> Safe disengages.
It's nice and all, but people don't ever need to enter chambers to kill bosses. All he needs is mana, which is plenty on the out side. 200+free upgrade for imp = free damage. Come in, hit and repeat.
Let's say you add a "magic barrier" that dampens his control, so his demon summons could survive on their own 8-12 seconds. This would divert players from abusing it, for the time consuming reasons. think it would be fair.

> Kills summons from Jealous Eyes, Chaos Orb, etc, as well. It's intended.
Ultimate griefer [EEEhhhhhhhi-hi-he-he-he-arghsmthz.]

> Fair enough. Death Coil has mostly gone untested since I tend to not take it in favor of upgrading summons instead, so I don't know how well/unwell it functions.

I managed to solo with summons throug all but Guideon (right now I'm talking only about solo runs). It seems that they are border line useless there. He counteracts evasion compleately, his damage is beastly, casting spells on him veeeery painful as well as hitting him. All DD summons die in 10 seconds tops. (maybe you could cleave of your demon, but it isn't confirmed) From sustain perspective undead parties at disadvantage. Warlok's death coil can't be self cast, while DK's coil heals only 2k, which in late game is pathetic. Totem could be used, but that's the only unility you get from Taur in this scenario. Maybe taur+ghoul+Loc would do. Still need to test.
]> 40 lvls of armor or attack for sumons cost 800 lumber total, while 360-th lvl hero (from solo game perspective, which in multiplayer is much lower) with all bosses killed player can gain 360+1+162 = 523 lumber total.

> While I do know this, I kinda like it showing his exact damage.
That's what I thought of :)
But does he have to ignore evasion? (maybe I lack good party experience if I see this as a problem)
Addition: never mind. It's fine.

> I don't have any idea what's causing the problem it's hard to fix.
Interesting... Then go for the workaround and spawn them via trigger, once any of the non-computer controlled units come to that opened door.

>> Wierd. Now boneNeck and Faith work as intended on warlock

>> Game - Display to (All players) for 10.00 seconds the text: Unsticker can only ... =^_^=

* Sword of deeps (DPS = deeps) gives dmg only for bosses and champions.

* In your current implementation of magus he gains aditional 5 int only when champion horrors and bosses die. The same as above.

* If one plyer is not the only one in the game, picks a hero and dies horribly, then all who hadn't picked yet get a defeat message.

* Rod of remourse doesn't reduce HP upon killing a sin.

** Sword of seven lights description: "...around holder", not "target", if you look what it does.

** Jelous eyes have a bad icon. I'ts almost impossible to tell when it will cool down.

** Specify in magus'es and sword of Seated description, that they give thouse sweet yummie bonuses only for champion kills.

*** When unit enters boss arena instantly pan the camera to loc of destination.
** Lust's 2 lore: "I've been far more lonely ever since." would sound appropriate.
** Wrath's lore: "Taking him down was far more difficult, mostly because his followers were equally angry, charging at full speed at me. He was insanely fast, but not that powerful."

* Ostarion's spirits destination should be unit Otarion, rather then plase where he stood when they spawned. This is minor thing, but seems to be awkward)
* Observer is a portable map hack even in the newer version. Reduce it's vision to 450. This will allow to move units from the cliffs, but scouting the map will take that much more effort.
* Last Will grants money for Sin kills.
* Mage gains 1 int for every trap kill in the temple.
** !If you destroy trigger - it can't be activated again, so when Mr.Hat kills one it is perfectly fine to drop it for the second player. Same goes for Garro's mask. If someone gets it via tarrot card, drops it and then finds it again - it will not vanish after droping.
** Unit - Reset ability cooldowns for The Evil King 0097 <gen>. If he has a sword of dawn(summons footmans) than it is a cmplete nightmare to deal with. He spams a ton of them every time you attack him. ... Slayer doesn't mind it one bit thou).


** Shades curse is scary, but not scary enough. The only thing it forces players to do (even if forces) is stand still for a minute. I suggest to play some creepey sounds and drag players around via tp for a short distance every 0.1 seconds in random(changed every 6-8 seconds) direction if unit/hero is on stand or hold position.
 
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