Warcraft III's DotA is OVER???

[frostloh]

That UI is simply disgusting. All greyness and sharp edges...lucky it's only an alpha.

 

[SA Dashie]

I think that there is still a chance for a Wc3 comeback.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I doubt Warcraft III's DotA would die though, from what I have heard, somebody is planning a huge community event (That is going to be held quite often) after Dota 2's release that promotes both DotA and Dota 2, and even other Blizzard or Valve games. It's still in their planning stage but yeah, it's helping both to stay alive.

 

[mf-shroom]

Warcraft III Forever!!!

DotA 2's UI is terrible, and wtf is with calling the sentinel "radiant" and scourge "dire" I will not pay to play such a horrible ripoff of such a long standing Warcraft III game.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Ironically, most of the PlayDotA community have also said that if it wasn't free to play, they'll end up in the dust...
So Warcraft III does live on

 

[Super-Sheep]

Ironically, most of the PlayDotA community have also said that if it wasn't free to play, they'll end up in the dust...
So Warcraft III does live on

They all seem to have a join date of Aug 2010 and 0 posts. This is just because they are from LoL and HoN and are all like lol why buy a game when LoL and HoN is free. >_>

But I am fine with that if they stay on their casual games.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Hmm... If you put it that way, then I'll have to agree.
DotA won't die in Warcraft III, and neither will Warcraft III, in fact I think most players would pretty much play both DotA (Warcraft III) AND Dota 2.
Warcraft III provides many other games and a huge community with many servers while Dota 2 expands a Warcraft III mod, what could be better than having them both?
Personally, I believe that Warcraft III would get even more popular as well, with more people knowing about DotA.

(Based on a mass lookout and survey to many people from DotA forums and Warcraft III ones as well)

 

[Gilles]

Why are people so against updating a really old game with huge limitations? You haven't even played DotA 2 yet, and the community is clinging to DotA as if it was a bad idea to update. AoS communities are the worst.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I'm not discouraging Dota 2 though, but I'm just saying that both games would get the beneficiary for updating it.

Warcraft III for players knowing about DotA and continue playing it casually or competitively.
Dota 2 for players who wish to upgrade, although most of them could still play both since I'd find it really boring to see the same thing for one pure game.

 

[Edhel-dur]

No, Minecraft :3

So Minecraft is the new Tetris ? Fair enough!

 

[I3lackDeath]

I don't see how DotA 2 is any kind of "upgrade". There's still much that has to be optimized. Though what I have seen so far, it has far less "charme" than WC3's version. It lacks its soul, focused on "better" graphics instead.

We will see how it evolves, but so far, I would stick to WC3 DotA for the next 20 years...

 

[Miss_Foxy]

After all, IceFrog did say he'll update it, who knows, another newer map genre could beat DotA as well in the future.

 

[Edhel-dur]

I don't see how DotA 2 is any kind of "upgrade". There's still much that has to be optimized. Though what I have seen so far, it has far less "charme" than WC3's version. It lacks its soul, focused on "better" graphics instead.

We will see how it evolves, but so far, I would stick to WC3 DotA for the next 20 years...

The WC3 engine and coding is limited to the technology available to it's time. Furthermore maps have an 8mb size limit, and who knows when the next upgrade will come. Also, through a stand alone version, DotA can benefit much more both financially and in terms of game mechanics.

 

[Avex]

Sucks, if DotA was killed and Blizzard fixed everyones hosting problems perhaps wc3 could get a jumpstart again.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Yeah, then another better map could happen and here we go again.

 

[Foronisus]

i dont know why you hate LoL i really like it its more on gameplay and not in graphic while Valve is making mistake more on graphic less on gameplay.

 

[Super-Sheep]

i dont know why you hate LoL i really like it its more on gameplay and not in graphic while Valve is making mistake more on graphic less on gameplay.

I wouldnt call removal of the runes, denying and Roshan as an improvement towards gameplay. Also the amount of juking and mindgames is around 0 only thing there are are the dumb bushes. Adding more maps, skins and modes has nothing to do with the improved gameplay.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Anyways, DotA the original would always be the best, some way or the other, 'improvements' can't improve on the classic, Warcraft III feel to it.
So i'm guessing it's not dead

 

[Kino]

I wouldnt call removal of the runes, denying

Removal of denying is an improvement on gameplay.
Why isnt Harbinger used often?, oh right his projectile moves too slow.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Removal of denying is an improvement on gameplay.

How?

Denying is a feature that allows the laning phase to be more intense. I wouldnt be surprised if League of Legends would completely get rid of the lasthitting mechanics.

 

[Kino]

How?

Denying is a feature that allows the laning phase to be more intense. I wouldnt be surprised if League of Legends would completely get rid of the lasthitting mechanics.

Denying adds more action to laning, true.

But it also means that characters with slow projectiles/attack animations are completely gimped.
Not to mention melee heroes are forced to either have a farm toll or be useless.

 

[Super-Sheep]

But it also means that characters with slow projectiles/attack animations are completely gimped.

This adds more variety to the game. Other heroes have better attack animations, while others have higher range, damage or projectile speed. It also makes more sense when a support hero has worse last hitting capabilities compared to a some other hero.

Not to mention melee heroes are forced to either have a farm toll or be useless.

I see that you have no clue what you are talking about. In Dota its very normal to see a melee hero soloing mid against a ranged hero. Yet it doesnt mean that the ranged one would automatically win the mid. Its all about utilizing the aggro of the creeps and pulling them into your range just in time. Melee heroes also lose less experience when their creeps get denied comparing to the ranged one. The scenario about "ranged wins melee" only happens amongst the bad players.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Anyways, at least DotA in Warcraft III would still be benefiting from the huge player base and many more people to come and play it

 

[Kino]

I see that you have no clue what you are talking about. In Dota its very normal to see a melee hero soloing mid against a ranged hero. Yet it doesnt mean that the ranged one would automatically win the mid. Its all about utilizing the aggro of the creeps and pulling them into your range just in time. Melee heroes also lose less experience when their creeps get denied comparing to the ranged one. The scenario about "ranged wins melee" only happens amongst the bad players.

Thats because melee heroes almost always have a very short swing time alowing them to last hit/deny easily. And of those melee that can take a ranged solo, they either have a farm tool or a naturally tanky or have the necessary abilties to turn the tables and score an easy kill early game.
And I wasnt talking about winning a lane, just denying.

This adds more variety to the game. Other heroes have better attack animations, while others have higher range, damage or projectile speed. It also makes more sense when a support hero has worse last hitting capabilities compared to a some other hero.

Except that its extremely weird for a normally aesthetic feature aka. swing time/projectile speed to have a great effect on gameplay.
Im not saying it breaks the game.
Im saying that its strange to balance a game around what in most games is simply an aesthetic feature.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Well, with some unique-ness in upcoming AoS maps, I'm sure they can easily beat certain games, even DotA at some point of time.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Thats because melee heroes almost always have a very short swing time alowing them to last hit/deny easily. And of those melee that can take a ranged solo, they either have a farm tool or a naturally tanky or have the necessary abilties to turn the tables and score an easy kill early game.

But I thought that you said that a melee will autolose vs a ranged hero in solo. I dont understand why you first say that "oh yeah so bad thing melee cant win ranged" and now you are all like "yeah so bad thing only some melee can win ranged". It is a good thing that not every hero excels at lane control.

Except that its extremely weird for a normally aesthetic feature aka. swing time/projectile speed to have a great effect on gameplay.
Im not saying it breaks the game.
Im saying that its strange to balance a game around what in most games is simply an aesthetic feature.

100+ heroes with all the same damage, attack point, range and projectile speed sounds like a boring game to me. You take those points into consideration whenever you do your picks anyway.

I havent played League of Legends that much because my eyes died in the first 10 minutes of the gameplay but I've heard things that theres such a thing as ability power. And by stacking it even a support hero can become a strong nuker or some sort. I assume that you think that this is balanced when every hero can perform the same things but no. Its all wrong. It kills the main purpose of the specific hero.

 

[Kino]

But I thought that you said that a melee will autolose vs a ranged hero in solo. I dont understand why you first say that "oh yeah so bad thing melee cant win ranged" and now you are all like "yeah so bad thing only some melee can win ranged". It is a good thing that not every hero excels at lane control.

I said that melee has an innate disadvantage.
And in order to make the game balanced they need a specialised skillset to get by.

100+ heroes with all the same damage, attack point, range and projectile speed sounds like a boring game to me. You take those points into consideration whenever you do your picks anyway.

I havent played League of Legends that much because my eyes died in the first 10 minutes of the gameplay but I've heard things that theres such a thing as ability power. And by stacking it even a support hero can become a strong nuker or some sort. I assume that you think that this is balanced when every hero can perform the same things but no. Its all wrong. It kills the main purpose of the specific hero.

100+ heroes with the same stats would be stupid but thats not what im suggesting. I said that having to balance such stats around a characters aesthetic swing time/projectile speed is awkward.

Well I havent played LoL at the level I could play DotA.
But the thing is that I was talking about denying in DoTA's context.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Well, DotA would be pretty much awesome even with Dota 2, and I believe many would still stay in Warcraft III, therefore it's not dead

 

[Super-Sheep]

I said that melee has an innate disadvantage.

Yeah something with a higher range gets a chance to attack before than the one with the shorter range... This is in a every game. Fucking mathematics.

And in order to make the game balanced they need a specialised skillset to get by.

So you are suggesting every hero to have these specialised skillsets? If not then again your point is just null. Also, the game is 5on5 and its not meant to be balanced between 1on1.

I said that having to balance such stats around a characters aesthetic swing time/projectile speed is awkward.

For being awkward it works out pretty nicely.

But the thing is that I was talking about denying in DoTA's context.

And denying is a cool thing to do.

 

[Kino]

Yeah something with a higher range gets a chance to attack before than the one with the shorter range... This is in a every game. Fucking mathematics.

Obvious isnt it?

So you are suggesting every hero to have these specialised skillsets? If not then again your point is just null. Also, the game is 5on5 and its not meant to be balanced between 1on1.

This is already in practice as far as useful heroes in DoTA are concerened.

For being awkward it works out pretty nicely.

Yeah it does, I never said it didnt.

And denying is a cool thing to do.

Dunno about you, but basically our argument boils down to a personal preferance for denying, as to which there can be no resolution.
Simply because you like denying as a feature and I dont.

You must understand that I am talking about this from purely DoTA perspective, so what is the norm in LoL or any other stand alone AOS is not relevant.
Neither have I said that the DoTA system doesnt work.

I am merely stating what most of the modding community has said about the map for a long time.
Its balanced, but balanced in wierd way.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

It's a good thing many people are developing their tools and maps further, who knows, something else could emerge better than DotA.
Anyways, I doubt DotA would die, it's kind of... Impossible.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Its balanced, but balanced in wierd way.

I'd like to see a map that is perfectly balanced then... Because there arent any. :c

Okay Warlock was pretty balanced after all but its a simple map. Then if you pick any other aos than Dota they all are dramatically out of balance.

 

[Kino]

I'd like to see a map that is perfectly balanced then... Because there arent any. :c

Okay Warlock was pretty balanced after all but its a simple map. Then if you pick any other aos than Dota they all are dramatically out of balance.

You still dont realy get it, Im not whining that DoTA balance sucks or whatever.
Im saying its balanced in a wierd way, because the steps taken to acheive that balance is not the way most developers would.

Take denying for example.
Most developers would not implement selective teamkilling as a gameplay feature to add more lane action.

 

[Super-Sheep]

You still dont realy get it, Im not whining that DoTA balance sucks or whatever.
Im saying its balanced in a wierd way, because the steps taken to acheive that balance is not the way most developers would.

Take denying for example.
Most developers would not implement selective teamkilling as a gameplay feature to add more lane action.

Well because its a map in Warcraft III those "features" just came part of the game automatically and community has grown into them and like them. They are even keeping the same attack animation lenghts in Dota 2 now. Sorry if you feel like I am arguing too much about this but you know Hiveworkshop is pretty dead nowadays.

 

[Kino]

Well because its a map in Warcraft III those "features" just came part of the game automatically and community has grown into them and like them. They are even keeping the same attack animation lenghts in Dota 2 now. Sorry if you feel like I am arguing too much about this but you know Hiveworkshop is pretty dead nowadays.

Yeah I understand that. I used to play DoTA loads FYI, just that theyre too many trolls in my country server nowadays so its impossible to actually enjoy a match beyond first blood.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Yeah I understand that. I used to play DoTA loads FYI, just that theyre too many trolls in my country server nowadays so its impossible to actually enjoy a match beyond first blood.

Never heard about inhouse and/or public leagues?

 

[Kino]

Never heard about inhouse and/or public leagues?

Used to play inhouse with a bunch of classmates, most of them have since gone overseas.
Some of them did say they might play again when DoTA 2 comes out, till then I sppose.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

And IceFrog did say he'll update DotA as long as the community wants, so yeah, there you have it, DotA in Warcraft III isn't going to die.