Warcraft III - Patch 1.30.4

[Landmine]

Patch 1.30.3 and 1.30.4 PTR Updates

With the passing of the holidays, Blizzard is back to work on releasing patches for Warcraft 3. It looks like we're starting 2019 strong with Patch 1.30.3 release the first week of January and Patch 1.30.4 now released to the PTR.

These patches include a list of balance changes and a few bugfixes. Affected by the balance changes are the Keeper of the Grove's Entrangling Roots, Alchemist's Acid Bomb, Glaive Thrower's Vorpal Glaives, Defend, and Mountain Giant.

You can find the complete posts for Patch 1.30.3 here and Patch 1.30.4 here.

 

[MasterBlaster]

So, any guesses what will stop working this time?

Mean jokes aside, it's nice to see that they're continuing to work on the game and hopefully they make some good progress

 

[Frotty]

5 Players including me just desynced from a green TD. (1 sec before i got scorescreen i was able to see the chat messages)
This map I attached 5 months ago still crashes when a player selects a preplaced zombie on the map.
Stuff's still borked.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

1.30.4 has actually been released to the live servers and not PTR.

 

[Chaosy]

1.30.4 states that some desyncs have been fixed.. nice, might return to the game by 2022 then.

 

[DracoL1ch]

just give them some time boys, not like you're hurring up somewhere Kappa

 

[Amigoltu]

5 Players including me just desynced from a green TD. (1 sec before i got scorescreen i was able to see the chat messages)
This map I attached 5 months ago still crashes when a player selects a preplaced zombie on the map.
Shit's still borked.

Maybe a problem is with the map, rather than the game...

 

[Im_Noob]

1.30.4 are in live servers

 

[deepstrasz]

My comments on the balance changes:
Patch 1.30.3 out

 

[_lycan]

New guy huh

 

[~El]

Well, uh, the startup desyncs seem to have gone.

Now to fix all the other desyncs!

 

[neven1]

Startup desync gone? Well that's fantastic news. Now i can get desynced 5 minute's later instead of right away.

 

[Frotty]

Maybe a problem is with the map, rather than the game...

Please explain? The map worked fine before the broken patches.

Now i can get desynced 5 minute's later instead of right away.

yea But it's nice there is some progress at least.

 

[Kam]

The number of desyncs has been reduced and we are continuing to investigate causes. The best help we can receive is the specific map you're having trouble with, and 5/5 reproducibility steps.

 

[Frotty]

The number of desyncs has been reduced and we are continuing to investigate causes. The best help we can receive is the specific map you're having trouble with, and 5/5 reproducibility steps.

I appreciate that, but you still have to realize that those desyncs have been introduced by the patches to begin with, so - at least for me - having all of them gone again is more of an expectation than an achievement.

I have uploaded multiple crash and model + music/sound issues with maps and steps to reproduce in previous threads.
There has been nothing done about it, not even an acknowledgement or "we are working on it" as far as I know.
E.g. sounds with meta data still don't work like they used to, and it doesn't look like it will be addressed. Will it?

Since the desyncs are new and caused by stuff that didn't cause them before, it's hard to find reproducible steps.
Especially since now you are instantly thrown to the score screen, you can't even see error messages or other hints that might be on the screen, indicating why you desynced.
It has essentially become harder to debug and I haven't seen a mention nor reason as to why the "lagg" dialog and "disconnected" dialog have been replaced with throwing ppl to scorescreen instead.

Other games that had desync issues after patches like AoE2:HD added the option to automatically upload replays of desynced games to the developers.
Maybe you can add a similar option, or at least somehow log desyncs per map so you can pin point broken maps.
I would even leave some extra diagnostics tool running if possible, just to see them be fixed more quickly.
But these measures don't exist and thus posting in patch threads mostly feels like throwing stuff at a wall to me.

tl;dr: Keep on patching. Help us to help you. Much love. Cheers.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Especially since now you are instantly thrown to the score screen, you can't even see error messages or other hints that might be on the screen, indicating why you desynced.

there are no place to make full-size synchro while playing, I believe server only shares current hash of the gamestate and those who failed to confirm are dropped, there are barely any way you can find out the reason from code-level, basing on hash. And syncing tons of various data instead (because it doesn't look like JASS error, must be inner structures issue) would totally waste any server. Desyncs have always been blind guessing, nothing changed, except the fact now you have to fix not just your desync, but blizzard's as well

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

I think a good bug tracking software for the community bug reports would benefit everyone to track which bugs have been solved and in which patches. Now, it is a bit frustrating to report the same bugs over and over again in every patch. Even if it would cost some money, I think it would be peanuts in Blizzard's budget.

Here's for example my bug report of missing WE shortcuts, which I have reported with most recent patches and it is still unfixed.

 

[deepstrasz]

I guess they should write something along the lines of: we fixed one of the most important bugs as fast as we could; the other reported ones will come in time. Of course, it would be great for them to also write a list of the ones awaiting to be fixed.

 

[~El]

A public bug tracker would go a long way to help. It's discouraging having half a dozen active threads where bugs are reported, and another dozen that are already dead.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

there are no place to make full-size synchro while playing, I believe server only shares current hash of the gamestate and those who failed to confirm are dropped, there are barely any way you can find out the reason from code-level, basing on hash. And syncing tons of various data instead (because it doesn't look like JASS error, must be inner structures issue) would totally waste any server. Desyncs have always been blind guessing, nothing changed, except the fact now you have to fix not just your desync, but blizzard's as well

Perhaps they could create something like "send debug data to Blizzard when someone desyncs in a game" functionality to the game. When someone desyncs, all clients send their state to Blizzard, along with the map name which was played. Then, it could be determined what caused the desync.

 

[~El]

The number of desyncs has been reduced and we are continuing to investigate causes. The best help we can receive is the specific map you're having trouble with, and 5/5 reproducibility steps.

In my experience, the desyncs can happen on literally ANY map, even on maps that never desynced before.

I even started desyncing in Enfo's MT 1.93, which did NOT desync mid-game before 1.30.4 came out. Been playing it right now, and desynced around the 15 minute mark.

 

[DracoL1ch]

Perhaps they could create something like "send debug data to Blizzard when someone desyncs in a game" functionality to the game. When someone desyncs, all clients send their state to Blizzard, along with the map name which was played. Then, it could be determined what caused the desync.

how would it be determined, given there are only hash which irreproducable by any mean? Also desynced client may be already dropped by the moment game decides to send info. But idea of sending tons of RAW data might work.. for some degree.

 

[Frotty]

In my experience, the desyncs can happen on literally ANY map, even on maps that never desynced before.

I even started desyncing in Enfo's MT 1.93, which did NOT desync mid-game before 1.30.4 came out. Been playing it right now, and desynced around the 15 minute mark.

Yes. Green TDs with literally just a bunch of GUI triggers suddenly desync.

 

[DracoL1ch]

sudden desyncing issue isn't up to triggers, obviously, because it worked just fine before. Something fucked within engine. Might be even native aura's timing or literally anything else.

 

[Himperion]

Spanish speaking user here. Shaman instead of talking full English on the Spanish version of the program as 1.30.2, is now mixing lines in English and Spanish in 1.30.4.

 

[Kam]

Most of the desyncs were caused by serveral game data caches that we now clear between games. This was why people were desyncing from ladder games after playing a custom map. We are looking at certain maps including Green Cycle now to determine which triggers or data are causing issues.

 

[~El]

Desynced again during a game on my map. The map and the replay are attached.

It should be noted that the desync happened while absolutely nothing was happening. It's a roleplay map, and most everything that is going on is just text chat, there's not even units moving most of the time. In the past, this map has proven to us to be very reliable, and I don't think I've seen any desyncs on it prior to patch 1.29.

Unoptimized version also attached. It doesn't use any GUI triggers, all of the code is Zinc and vJASS. You'll have to look at the script file for the actual triggers, unfortunately.

Hopefully this helps in the investigation.

@Kam

 

[DracoL1ch]

if you want to help to solve a desync, you should attach 2 replays - one of the host, one of the client.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

E.g. sounds with meta data still don't work like they used to, and it doesn't look like it will be addressed. Will it?

I tried out an MP3 with metadata (English) in 1.30.4 and it worked without problems.

 

[Frotty]

I tried out an MP3 with metadata (English) in 1.30.4 and it worked without problems.

Indeed, I just did a single test with 1.30.4 and it worked, but the only mention of a fix seems to be in 1.30.2. (or I missed it?)

I know that it wasn't fixed with 1.30.2, because that released around 1st December and I committed the fixed sounds to my git repo at Dec 29th.
The sounds didn't play, but after using an id3 remover, they worked.

If I get the time I will check Robo Arena which's music was also still bugged with 1.30.2

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

I found a bug. You cannot create a custom unit out of Entangled Gold Mine. It does not appear in the unit list in the Create Custom Unit dialog.

 

[Sakata Gintoki]

does this patch still support LAN anymore?

 

[DoctorGester]

Perhaps they could create something like "send debug data to Blizzard when someone desyncs in a game" functionality to the game. When someone desyncs, all clients send their state to Blizzard, along with the map name which was played. Then, it could be determined what caused the desync.

Point is: the game simulation occurs on all clients simultaneously. Even the slightest change like some floating point precision error (it's just an example, usually fixed point math is used) in a single variable (which might not be hashed!) can accumulate over time and cause the desync of some other state somewhere later. A so called "butterfly-effect". Meaning the state at the point of desync can be

 

[DracoL1ch]

For 20 years floating point systems were fine, and now broken? Nice joke right there.

 

[Frotty]

Most of the desyncs were caused by serveral game data caches that we now clear between games. This was why people were desyncing from ladder games after playing a custom map. We are looking at certain maps including Green Cycle now to determine which triggers or data are causing issues.

Hi. I found out something new related to Green (Circle) TD maps.
Most of the ones which are hosted on battle.net contain cheatpacks (code injected into the map to allow control to certain cheat commands),
and cheatpacks use a gamecache and more for stuff like keybinds.
Hence it might not desync on a "simple GUI map" after all. Not sure.

 

[DoctorGester]

For 20 years floating point systems were fine, and now broken? Nice joke right there.

What are you on? Floating point math was NEVER fine for deterministic simulation across multiple different-cpu machines.

How are deterministic games possible in the face of floating-point non-determinism? here, educate yourself

 

[DracoL1ch]

educate yourself how it worked flawlessly for 20 years before patching started first

 

[pyf]

@DracoL1ch @DoctorGester :

Please read:
Floating Point Determinism | Gaffer On Games

 

[DracoL1ch]

Not like blizzard north were some newbies at programming who couldn't understand such things. My point is that system used to work just fine for years. Blaming floats for latest desyncs now would mean there are heavily incopetent programmers rewritting some old code in a wrong way. Which is obviously cannot be true.

 

[Lord_Earthfire]

Or the desynch detection was far stricter tuned, so it catches stuff that was before let by. And that is known to be the case, since the newest patch catched things which were completely fine in the past. That is how we got these masses of desynchs. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine that these were overseen, too.

 

[DoctorGester]

Not like blizzard north were some newbies at programming who couldn't understand such things. My point is that system used to work just fine for years. Blaming floats for latest desyncs now would mean there are heavily incopetent programmers rewritting some old code in a wrong way. Which is obviously cannot be true.

I literally did not blame it on floats, like I said in my first post which you might have read before replying: "it's just an example", not even specific to warcraft 3, but pointed at general lockstep tech.

And yeah sure it worked so fine that there is literally no such thing as a floating point type in starcraft 2, where instead fixed type is used, clearly they just selected an inferior solution to degrade their game performance and make people buy more powerful PCs, not because floating point calculations are extremely hard to make deterministic across different machines.

 

[DracoL1ch]

ok then, misunderstanding happened

 

[EredarArbeiterYU]

Please fix the sounds issues. Right now sounds like Infernals and Elementals dying, Undead humming sound, Dark Conversion and probably some others are not geographically localized and are instead played at max volume to all players ears directly!! -_- This makes it a torture to play the game sometimes.

 

[Kacpa2]

Did something happen to unlimited raise and lower terrain? It seems like WE is ignoring Miscdata i put in the UI folder. It doesnt allow me to make more extreme terrai variation it smooths itself out forcefully again.

 

[Vidovit]

Damn i keep crashing with the latest war3.. just crashed in 2 mele 4v4 rt games before the loading screen. Had a normal game before that without issues.
Before that like 8/12 players desynced in azeroth wars, and in the rmk everybody did after like 10 mins.
Reforged better have a reconnect option because this is unplayable.

 

[Robbepop]

I just noticed that for spell FX without animations the AddSpecialEffect native does no longer work.
More info here: [General] - Is AddSpecialEffect broken?

 

[EredarArbeiterYU]

And some custom icons that previously worked fine now are defunct and just look like bright-green squares. :/

 

[deepstrasz]

And some custom icons that previously worked fine now are defunct and just look like bright-green squares. :/

It would be helpful to link to which ones so they could be fixed by someone.

 

[EredarArbeiterYU]

Well the one I could find on Hive Workshop is this one:
BTNKilJaeden

That one stopped working. Also one for an Orc Warlock hero, but I am not sure which one of them it was on Hive...
Edit: the KJ icon does show up when it's the unavailable shade of the icon, like when you press F10 then it shows correct until you go back to game.

 

[EredarArbeiterYU]

The number of desyncs has been reduced and we are continuing to investigate causes. The best help we can receive is the specific map you're having trouble with, and 5/5 reproducibility steps.

In map Lordaeron: The Aftermath (current version 1.57) LORDAERON: TA v1.57 - Warcraft 3 Maps - Epic War.com
Pick purple player (Dalaran Remnants), then take his starting hero to Dalaran crater (I assume you know well enough where it is ), then his ability "Rebuild New Dalaran" (it's called something like that) will become usable, use that abillity and it should give that player a new capital city (along with a new hero and new units), the floating city of New Dalaran located just off the north-east coast of Northrend.
Now in about 100% of the cases doing this will cause everyone in the game to be thrown out into the scoreboard and the game is over (playing alone will of course have no issues cuz desync can't happen in singeplayer but this is a MP map ofc). :/
For some reason though, doing this late-game, (like 30 minutes into the game or later) might not cause a desync!! BUT doing it early (which is the time it makes most sense to do it!) will 5/5 times cause a desync. :/
Btw the ability to rebuild Dalaran can also be cast deep inside of Dalaran dungeons which you can enter through the portal (it makes no difference for desync if it's used outside or inside the Dalaran ruins).