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Techtree Contest #14 - Results

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Contestants are to recreate one of the default Warcraft 3 races, be it Human / Orc / Undead / Night Elf / Naga. Your submission must fit your chosen theme and share similar concepts with the original race.


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  • 1st place: 75 reputation points
  • 2nd place: 50 reputation points
  • 3rd place: 25 reputation points
  • Entry: 5 reputation points
  • Judge: 15 reputation points per entry
The three winning teams will receive an award icon, representing the winning entry.




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Theme
How well the various elements of the Faction (including aesthetics, gameplay & design) fit together in a thematic manner such that they feel like they are representative of the given Faction, as well as that of the chosen Contest Theme. Well-fitting & polished aesthetics which complement a cohesive theme will be graded well; poorly-considered or lacking thematic elements will result in a poor score./10

Gameplay
How well the various elements of the Faction work together to achieve the tactical synergy & gameplay style the Faction has, as well as how efficiently each element performs its particular function. Strategic systems that endow an identity to the Faction, comprehensive & well-though-out roles which complement a cohesive Faction will be graded well; ill-considered, insufficient or over-compensating roles will lose points./10

Balance
Indicates how comparable the Faction is in terms of 'playability'; i.e. the ideal Faction should win/lose 50% of the time against others of it's class. Overpowered or Underpowered units/heroes/abilities/etc will result in a poor score; properly balanced elements will result in a good score./5

Creativity
How original the design of the Faction is in terms of innovative ideas, clever implementations, or creative concepts. Innovation and creativity will be rewarded; extensive re-use of existing elements in vanilla factions & poor originality will result in a poor score./15

/40


  • Judgement: 70%
  • Poll: 30%
FinalScore = (30*Reached_Votes/POSSIBLE_VOTES) + (70*Average_Judge_Score/POSSIBLE_SCORE)

MyPad received a 10% penalty for updating his entry during the poll.



Theme 9/10

You've expanded on the traditional Naga aesthetic, and thrown in some Greek mythology with Stone Gaze. Abilities have a common connection as well through Night Power. Speaking of power this race seems to be generally hard hitting which fits what I think of for Naga. The Reef Singer provided good options for countering multiple types of enemy units in a straightforward and interesting way.

Gameplay 7/10

Watery Gates are a refreshing (har) mechanic. However I want the option to choose which gate will be used in the event I proxy build. There's too many spells with multiple effects and interactions to consider, almost all 25 unit spells fall into this. In large battles it became hard to track what was going on.

Balance 3/5

Resilience is frustrating to play against as there is no indication of what point the cycle it is. The night time healing is way too high. If I'm trying to Cripple I want to maximize the affective time. Overall the durations on some spells are too much such as Terrorize. Thunderstorm is an example of un-counterable damage because it's not summoning. Ocean Nexus has a similar issue in providing global un-counterable damage - I'd stick to positive buffs. Overall this race hits way to hard, especially at night.

Creativity 12/15

The spawning system, and Night Power are unique entries to the Naga race and you've integrated them well. You've created a host of abilities that often seem original but in some cases are slightly different takes on vanilla abilities such as Terrorize. Not that this is an enormous issue but there are opportunities for creating units for specific purposes the way you did with the Reef Singer.

Total Score 31/40

Notes:
I got 201 Night Power
Static Shock, and Water Shield have a buff stacking issue on the Status bar


Theme 9/10

I love the various poses Lay Brother's do as they are idling at their Shanty or training at each building type, it's a solid detail. The Christian/Crusaders vibe is present in all the units.

Gameplay 6/10

Not being able to shift build with multiple tents selected is annoying. Being able to research and train at the same time speeds up teching enormously and is appreciated. As interesting as Exorcism is targeting a single race is too niche, the flavor should read as targeting non-believers. It would make sense for all units to have Pray since Faith is such a strong thematic element to this race. I'm not sure I see the value in Tents other than offering protection from harass, and they add a lot of complexity to the build process. I didn't see a way to cancel a unit in production. Having the Altar of Eulogy be the target for Praying is a bit odd as it somewhat encourages me to build more than one. I enjoyed stacking Goldenwill and Aftershock on my Vindicators and Disciples and tossing them into combat. Trample creates an odd incentive to micro Cavaliers out of combat briefly.

The most significant issue here is how the economy gets disrupted by the need to lose workers to Tents, and being unable to harvest lumber without a lumberjack. Both of these could have been thought about more. Because of these issues it was difficult to get going quickly, leaving me behind in creeping and general army production.

Balance 3/5

As much as I enjoy the concept of units having a second life is problematic. The Tauren Chieftan and Phoenix are easily recognized and understood. Having a number of Vindicators and Warrior Angels mixed into my army creates a lot of unknown for my opponent. I think the complexity of training units offsets the advantage of dual training + research. Faith is essentially a resource the enemy player can do nothing about once it has grown yet provides a global buff to all units. Further I just started training Union Missionary's and having the immediately Pilgrimage.

Creativity 11/15

The Faith resource and training system are engaging. Generally abilities are interesting although they are sometimes based heavily on standard spells such as Bolts of Heaven. There wasn't anything that stood out as an exciting ability or interaction though.

Total Score 29/40

Notes:
I wasn't able to get 100% Faith using Pray, and there should be an added benefit if I do. I was also able to use Pilgrimage to get to 189% although the stat bonus stops at 100%.
Gallant Spear can be charged by attacking your buildings


Theme 9/10This race is outlandish, bizarre, and fantastic. The Chromium Blossom is one of the more interesting units providing significant utility. Missile Rain is ridiculous. Abilities are interesting and share the "tech wizard" design.

Gameplay 8/10

Making Nanohearts also a defensive structure by default makes them a target. Typically enemy players will ignore Farms after the early game as they aren't worth the time. Nanohearts are now a meaningful threat and so I risk losing my food production and feel the need to tower near them. Shocking Lightening has the same issue of not placing a buff on the enemy unit or providing any indication that it has been cast. Generally with this race understanding what is going on is an issue which is mostly due to lack of visuals/buffs rather than critical design flaws.

Balance 3/5

Salvage is dangerous as it's a snowball mechanic. Generally in RTS you have an opportunity to recover after losing an engagement, which this ability negates to a degree. It's hard to gauge the impact though from my limited playtests. These units all hit incredibly hard. The costs are high but the Judas Artillery in particular is a monster. The Extreme Protocols Center is useful, but it I would shy away from spells that affect enemy units globally. In particular there's no VFX that indicates that Blossom Burst was fired on the structure.

Creativity 13/15

While the general tone is exciting there are some spells that are clearly based on vanilla abilities with a slight twist, Pressure for example. I want to see more out of the Phoenix Skystalker - perhaps it explodes into the Phoenix's that pummel the ground as a single use unit. There's a lot of opportunity on your race for these interactions due to the absurd nature of it. Explosion Toads is a joy to use, although I would have them automatically taunt.

Total Score 33/40

Notes:
Sun Shield is missing it's buff and appears to sometimes kill the Blightcleaner after 20 seconds


Theme 9/10

Restore Gold Mine jumps out immediately as a likely bad idea due to balance concerns but as it turns out this race strip-mines everything so these mechanics are necessary. Sales Talk is a riot, I love the Bandit sound set usage and clever pitches. The text disappears too fast in some cases. Corporate Trap, and Thanatos' Creed are interesting in providing a possible downside that fits right into the idea of corporate politics.

Gameplay 7/10

Because units help in resource collection the incredible costs end up being a non-issue. I've never seen anything similar to Tax Rebate before, although it may be hard to detect by the enemy player as it's global. There seem to be a number of bugs and tooltips are wrong in some cases so I wasn't always sure of what was happening. Resource gathering was a constant concern. Typically you toss workers on your mineral line and other than making sure it's optimal/defending harass you don't pay attention again. It may require too much player input here.

Balance 3/5

Stealing a neutral buildings from the map is something I would avoid. It means you can deny enemy players access to Tavern heroes, or important items such as Boots. There's no negative to losing a Void Reguvenator since units inside at death aren't stunned. Tax Rebate should be AoE rather than global. Generally there's a lot of issues with communicating to the enemy player how/why you are gaining gold. Further the ability to generate gold is dangerous for balance. Transmute and Pillage work because they have well defined limitations.

Creativity 12/15

You captured the generally poor nature of corporate society in a humorous way here, including a few ideas I've never seen before. I want to see the same depth of thought applied to all the units though rather than relying on vanilla spells such as Ensnare and Demolish.

Total Score 31/40


Theme 7/10

The music really helped nail this down in the first few minutes. Lyrics aren't the best for a RTS though and as time passed I had to lower the volume. It eventually cut off though. Overall I wanted to see more integration of the water and ghost ideas outside of tooltips and icons.

Gameplay 6/10

This is a basic Human race in terms of play style. It wasn't clear to me that Discouragment and Hunters Mark were single use. The only major standout is Eternal Hate. I pumped out a ton of footmen and gunners and overwhelmed the AI with respawning units. This actually speaks to the theme of crushing waves.

Balance 2/5

Eternal Hate melts armies. I am essentially given 2x my army, and they have 15% Evasion. Landships are also extremely good for base harass since Explosion deals damage to buildings. Tier3 AI Orc armies were destroyed in ~20 seconds with about 1/3 of my units surviving.

Creativity 8/15

Many of the spells are based closely on vanilla abilities: Defend, Strong Blow, Hunters Mark, Power of Water, etc. Eternal Hate and Aqua Support are improvements from there but overall not a great deal of thought seems to have been put into many abilities. This is a good starting point. Go deeper (har) with the theme into units. Maybe the gunner fires water bullets for example.

Total Score 23/40

Notes:
There are many tooltip bugs, and descriptions that don't communicate what is happening.


Theme 10/10

If you had not labeled this race I would have known exactly what you were doing. Everything from art to sound to spell appearance and mechanic design is spot on. The permanent transform for Ancients and their unique abilities fit right in. I enjoyed your takes on the Druids.

Gameplay 9/10

This plays similar to NE. The major difference is that now buildings are potentially far more important in combat as they take their super unit form. The AI wasn't able to deal with them too well, their hitboxes make pathing an army difficult, and if the target is far away you basically have to commit to that attack as movement speed is so slow.

Balance 4/5

Units are hard hitting but the costs involved are appropriate. There may be too many spells that have negative buffs, it's a lot for an enemy player to track.

Creativity 10/15

Contrasting the work put into art, sound, and general feel the abilities are mostly reskinned vanilla spells. Hero abilities vary more. It would have been preferable to see the kind of thought put into the Aspects also extended into spells and abilities. This is an incredibly strong base for a more complex custom race. I'd love to see you continue developing it.

Total Score 33/40


Theme 9/10

I would have preferred to see the same evocation training method used for all units, including heroes. It's quite interesting and helps me visualize what my army is. I definitely get the mystical dark Night Elf feeling across the board though. Abilities and spells from description to icon to effects all fit in quite well.

Gameplay 8/10

There are far too many upgrades. There is some value to a player in reaching the end of a tech tree or line of upgrades. The Sage -> Spirit Owl process is a little off-putting because it's the only instance of this, but it works for this race. I love the Owl's interaction with buildings. Abduct and Tether are brilliant. This is the first time I've seen a Nydus worm ability that worked and felt correctly, evening showing units in cargo. I am a fan of unit transforming abilities but I worry there are too many. Wisp Power can probably be removed, I didn't feel it added a whole lot to unit interactions. Food production is a hassle, Stele needs to make more than 10.


Balance 3/5

A flying hero that has a passive resource generating spell is absolutely OP, although I find her whole kit compelling. I also have a concern that some units can outgrow restrictions that may be necessary, such as the Dusk Raven attacking ground. Pucks are basically a unit removal tool as you can Abduct and fly over deep water where the unit will be trapped forever (or maybe this is the secret grove, har).

Creativity 15/15

All of your abilities are well crafted. Balance and gameplay concerns aside they are compelling to use. Yes the Emerald Corpse is a Nydus but it's also incredibly well integrated into your theme. Germinate, Root Canopy and many other abilities are both interesting and useful.

Total Score 35/40




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Contest | Poll
 
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Wow, honestly didn't think I'll make it to the top 3, since it's the first entry I did!

Funny enough the results were posted right when I climed a mountain, or hill tbh (pic below). Anyways thanks a lot for the conest as a whole, it definitely helped me staying sane during these hard times and a lack of job. Very glad that I decided to rejoin the Hive community.

Cheers to the winners and participants!

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I am pretty surprised to get third place. Alhamdulillah. To be honest, I didn't expect much from me and @Directive255 entry at first. Even our discussion let to an agreement that the best probability is to receive 4th place in this contest.

It seems The Last Revolt is a great improvement in the right direction to Night Empire race I worked on years ago, so yeah.

Oh, and finally:
Life, STAHP GIVING ME REASONS TO GET BACK TO MODDING!
 
Whoever gives the idea of lowering the balance score weight, you have my thanks. Kam seems pretty sharp with balancing (no 4/5 or 5/5 there) :D

I am pretty surprised to get third place. Alhamdulillah. To be honest, I didn't expect much from me and @Directive255 entry at first. Even our discussion let to an agreement that the best probability is to receive 4th place in this contest.

It seems The Last Revolt is a great improvement in the right direction to Night Empire race I worked on years ago, so yeah.

Congrats on the first place @Spellbound @Wazzz and second place @Moonman

Oh, and finally:
Life, STAHP GIVING ME REASONS TO GET BACK TO MODDING!
 
This contest has seen quite a few more participants than the last few Techtree contests, which was a treat to see. Thank you all for participating!

I think it has more visibility than others and the theme is quite simple to work on, yet gives a lot of space for creativity. The timing also, I'd say, quite good, since lot of people are stuck at home.
 
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Really sad for Yours truly and Riki Martin. They both deserved to be in top 3.

Especially Seraphic Union. Yours Truly spent countless hours on that project, and in the end, he got pretty much nothing in return. Kind of demoralizing to even continue competing in these kind of contests, as you can see from his comment in this thread.
 
Really sad for Yours truly and Riki Martin. They both deserved to be in top 3.

Especially Seraphic Union. Yours Truly spent countless hours on that project, and in the end, he got pretty much nothing in return. Kind of demoralizing to even continue competing in these kind of contests, as you can see from his comment in this thread.

Lol? He's won previous ones and came in the top 3 before? When you enter these competitions you need to be prepared to win or lose and if someone can't handle losing then I suggest they refrain from contests.

If he's really that hung up about one contest he didn't get into the top 3 when he's won other ones then I don't know what that says.
 
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Well, people are doing this free of charge. If you want more people into these kind of contests then you need to give something in return. It is no surprise that majority of the times these kind of contests are a flop.
 
Well, people are doing this free of charge. If you want more people into these kind of contests then you need to give something in return. It is no surprise that majority of the times these kind of contests are a flop.

The joy of participation and creating a whole new faction in the World Editor not satisfaction enough? Just because you do something doesn't mean your entitled to something back. These competitions are opportunities to learn and to show off the amount of talent and imagination this community has and for us to come together and see them develop. The prizes are secondary to that spirit of work and are a bonus not an entitlement.
 
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Congratulations to the winners of this amazing contest. It was a really enjoyable project for me, so I'll continue working on it in the future.

Really sad for Yours truly and Riki Martin. They both deserved to be in top 3.

Well, winning is only secondary compared to the opportunity of participate here and learn something new while you enjoy working on a great project. Anyway, thank you for your support. :D
 

Kyrbi0

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Yeah what even are you talking about, MK...

Well, people are doing this free of charge.
... Yeah. That's what all of us are doing, all the time here. It's a modding community. It's all a big group hobby.

MogulKahn said:
If you want more people into these kind of contests then you need to give something in return.
Contests aren't a thing we have to do & thus are obligated to incentivize people to join... They're things we want to do & thus organically choose to self-organize & create.

And we already do have some incentives; some tangible (reputation for simply making an entry (i.e. participation trophy), awards for Top 3, etc) & some intangible (social clout & notoriety for being part of something, respect from your peers for what you accomplish, independent of whatever the Poll/Judges say (re: YoursTruly & RikiMartin), etc)

MogulKahn said:
It is no surprise that majority of the times these kind of contests are a flop.
That's just patently false. I don't know what you consider a "flop", but these Contests have been reasonably successful over the years.

And when not, one of the biggest obstacles to success wasn't whatever nonsense you are describing, but simply the fact of how difficult & multidisciplinary Techtree Contests are. Designing a dozen+ units, dozen+ buildings, 4 separate Heroes (when we have an entire Contest dedicated to just 1), connecting them all together & fleshing them out with a full complement of abilities (20-30) & upgrades (+15)... It's a big deal.
 
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And when not, one of the biggest obstacles to success wasn't whatever nonsense you are describing, but simply the fact of how difficult & multidisciplinary Techtree Contests are. Designing a dozen+ units, dozen+ buildings, 4 separate Heroes (when we have an entire Contest dedicated to just 1), connecting them all together & fleshing them out with a full complement of abilities (20-30) & upgrades (+15)... It's a big deal.

You perfectly described everything what I am trying to say. Yours Truly spent countless hours working on it, majority of things in his map are custom, and in the end what he got in return?

And, who are you even to talk? Biggest slacker in this community, who has never done anything constructive here, but is always first to write wall of texts... I remember once when you actually participated in this kind of contest. You were making some Goblin-Lab race. You even took some unfinished work that you did before, not even starting from scrap, did minimal amount of job on it, and in the end, gave up. Give me a break, please...
 
Really sad for Yours truly and Riki Martin. They both deserved to be in top 3.

Especially Seraphic Union. Yours Truly spent countless hours on that project, and in the end, he got pretty much nothing in return. Kind of demoralizing to even continue competing in these kind of contests, as you can see from his comment in this thread.

I played their entries (have one video on Riki's, Seraphic is giving me a headache to win at the moment) and they are pretty solid. However, some of their most interesting mechanics also quite radically different that can give some players harsh time to get used to, at least several runs for me to even figure out what Nightscale Tribe can work on (and I'm sure I missed a lot still).

Well, people are doing this free of charge. If you want more people into these kind of contests then you need to give something in return. It is no surprise that majority of the times these kind of contests are a flop.

We already get a reward for participation. The entries also serve as an example for the resources section when done well, regardless of victory. I rarely joined because I know making good entries takes time. Well, we can raise future participation rewards, though that's a discussion on the site level, that's it.

Oh, your entry also gets high visibility already. I'm sure the reason the participation reward is small was meant to discourage people with low-quality entries and make high-quality ones like ones here compete with all seriousness.

The joy of participation and creating a whole new faction in the World Editor not satisfaction enough? Just because you do something doesn't mean your entitled to something back. These competitions are opportunities to learn and to show off the amount of talent and imagination this community has and for us to come together and see them develop. The prizes are secondary to that spirit of work and are a bonus not an entitlement.

And to add to that, great room to experiment with limitations and capabilities we have. @Moonman, for example, manages to create an amazing entry with limited skill in his hand. For me, that's a pretty solid reward on its own. One can't expect to always come to get a victory out of these contests. If the results are not satisfactory, there's always room for debating the judge's results.

Congratulations to the winners of this amazing contest. It was a really enjoyable project for me, so I'll continue working on it in the future.



Well, winning is only secondary compared to the opportunity of participate here and learn something new while you enjoy working on a great project. Anyway, thank you for your support. :D

Thanks. I hope to see more amazing work from you in the future as well, as Nightscale Tribe is a pretty solid entry. Expect a video soon ^^

Yeah what even are you talking about, MK...


... Yeah. That's what all of us are doing, all the time here. It's a modding community. It's all a big group hobby.


Contests aren't a thing we have to do & thus are obligated to incentivize people to join... They're things we want to do & thus organically choose to self-organize & create.

And we already do have some incentives; some tangible (reputation for simply making an entry (i.e. participation trophy), awards for Top 3, etc) & some intangible (social clout & notoriety for being part of something, respect from your peers for what you accomplish, independent of whatever the Poll/Judges say (re: YoursTruly & RikiMartin), etc)


That's just patently false. I don't know what you consider a "flop", but these Contests have been reasonably successful over the years.

And when not, one of the biggest obstacles to success wasn't whatever nonsense you are describing, but simply the fact of how difficult & multidisciplinary Techtree Contests are. Designing a dozen+ units, dozen+ buildings, 4 separate Heroes (when we have an entire Contest dedicated to just 1), connecting them all together & fleshing them out with a full complement of abilities (20-30) & upgrades (+15)... It's a big deal.

Contests are meant to increase participation from the community, and as of recent rules of uploading to the respective section, it increases the resources of the site. On being successful, I think that varies, as time constraint has been a major bog down in most contests.
 
Really sad for Yours truly and Riki Martin. They both deserved to be in top 3.

Especially Seraphic Union. Yours Truly spent countless hours on that project, and in the end, he got pretty much nothing in return. Kind of demoralizing to even continue competing in these kind of contests, as you can see from his comment in this thread.

Thanks for sharing that. I wouldn't have the guts to say that myself.

You perfectly described everything what I am trying to say. Yours Truly spent countless hours working on it, majority of things in his map are custom, and in the end what he got in return?

And, who are you even to talk? Biggest slacker in this community, who has never done anything constructive here, but is always first to write wall of texts... I remember once when you actually participated in this kind of contest. You were making some Goblin-Lab race. You even took some unfinished work that you did before, not even starting from scrap, did minimal amount of job on it, and in the end, gave up. Give me a break, please...

Well, I'm flattered that you're doing this on my account, but it's getting kind of heated right now. I got a low score despite my efforts, yes. I don't know what I did wrong or what makes my race so bad by the community's current standards. Everyone has their own opinions which makes the bias here very noticeable.

But, I'm willing to just brush it off and not cause further turmoil.
 
Thanks for sharing that. I wouldn't have the guts to say that myself.



Well, I'm flattered that you're doing this on my account, but it's getting kind of heated right now. I got a low score despite my efforts, yes. I don't know what I did wrong or what makes my race so bad by the community's current standards. Everyone has their own opinions which makes the bias here very noticeable.

But, I'm willing to just brush it off and not cause further turmoil.

There's always room to inquire about the judge's results. I think you should use that to get confirmation from Kam, rather than having yourself on internal turmoil.
 
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I mean, if we want to talk about countless hours of work, we are talking about an entry that hadn't been worked on for at least three weeks during the contest itself.

I think people are absolutely entitled to their opinions, but at the same time it seems unbecoming to call @Kyrbi0 a slacker, especially when everything he said was rather on point - everybody who competes in a Techtree Contest dedicates a significant amount of time towards producing the final product, and while your own favorite may not have gotten into the top 3, the way it is being phrased is that the people who /did/ get into the top 3 apparently just don't deserve it. Personally, I think it's more than a little insulting to imply that @Moonman's entry somehow didn't earn his place despite the substantial amount of work he had to put into redeveloping his entry a number of times, and still managing to put out a good result. It's also insulting to insinuate that @Daffa and @Directive255 didn't do a damn good job of making an incredibly entertaining entry.

Now, if you actually wish to raise any points that @Kam raised concerning the entries that you disagree with or want clarification on, that would be absolutely fine. Personally, I found his insight to be right to the point and accurate. In relation to Seraphic Union, I think @Daffa is also having a similar experience to the one I had that made it... very difficult to win as. I can absolutely deconstruct the points that made this difficult, and already have done so.

Also, apparently notifications for this thread weren't coming up for me, so imagine my surprise to see all of this out of nowhere :p

Also I totally just saw your response, @Kyrbi0, concerning the flying hero. Oh u :^)
 
There's always room to inquire about the judge's results. I think you should use that to get confirmation from Kam, rather than having yourself on internal turmoil.

What good would that bring? The top 3 factions made absolutely deserve their awards, especially @Moonman who's new to this sort of thing. I will not inquire about the results as it will only make me look egotistical, and to a degree, egocentric as well. For the good of the community, it is better off for me to stay silent and have myself on "internal turmoil" instead.

However, I will make this statement. I do think it is rather strange that Kam's judging will never give me a good scoring. The only time I actually get past top 3 is when someone else is a judge, or when there's another person judging as well.
 
What good would that bring? The top 3 factions made absolutely deserve their awards, especially @Moonman who's new to this sort of thing. I will not inquire about the results as it will only make me look egotistical, and to a degree, egocentric as well. For the good of the community, it is better off for me to stay silent and have myself on "internal turmoil" instead.

However, I will make this statement. I do think it is rather strange that Kam's judging will never give me a good scoring. The only time I actually get past top 3 is when someone else is a judge, or when there's another person judging as well.

I think you better inquire, as that is less egoistical than that statement that can be interpreted as personal attack for some people. Really, I think it is better if we inquire the whole judging itself.

@Kam I noticed your judging has an interesting mistake on MyPad's score. Is it right the creativity is 8/10? Isn't it suppose to be /15?

Creativity 8/10

You captured the generally poor nature of corporate society in a humorous way here, including a few ideas I've never seen before. I want to see the same depth of thought applied to all the units though rather than relying on vanilla spells such as Ensnare and Demolish.

Total Score 27/40
 
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In the previous contest, the judging was done by a substitute judge which unfortunately missed the mark on the contest itself with a lot of what was reflected, but due to logistical errors, the moderator never actually relayed this despite saying amendments were being made.

Personally, I cannot say whether or not there isn't a level of bias from Kam as I cannot speak from his perspective. I think in some respects, like Balance, he was generous, and from what I can tell about the scoring in this instance, there isn't much else I would have personally done differently. But then I would also go from an elaboration on each point, and hopefully convey the message coherently. That is me, though, as I can get a bit wrapped up in typing about topics I find to be of particular interest to me, Techtree Contests being one such topic.

If you like, I can attempt to convey what I think could help you to improve in areas that I think could work for you, as from my perspective you do show promise, but you also tend to fall into the same trappings for each contest and you need a bit of a push to help get you past it.

One thing I am particularly curious about, though... Did you play Seraphic Union in a proper game against the AI?

Oh, also, if you do still feel Kam is judging against you, while you might not ask for the results to be done over or anything like that, I would definitely advocate asking him to elaborate on any points you feel didn't make sense to you - if for nothing else, to at least have a bit of clarity on why your entry scored as it did. Could help provide some closure.
 
Theme 9/10This race is outlandish, bizarre, and fantastic. The Chromium Blossom is one of the more interesting units providing significant utility. Missile Rain is ridiculous. Abilities are interesting and share the "tech wizard" design.

Gameplay 8/10

Making Nanohearts also a defensive structure by default makes them a target. Typically enemy players will ignore Farms after the early game as they aren't worth the time. Nanohearts are now a meaningful threat and so I risk losing my food production and feel the need to tower near them. Shocking Lightening has the same issue of not placing a buff on the enemy unit or providing any indication that it has been cast. Generally with this race understanding what is going on is an issue which is mostly due to lack of visuals/buffs rather than critical design flaws.

Balance 3/5

Salvage is dangerous as it's a snowball mechanic. Generally in RTS you have an opportunity to recover after losing an engagement, which this ability negates to a degree. It's hard to gauge the impact though from my limited playtests. These units all hit incredibly hard. The costs are high but the Judas Artillery in particular is a monster. The Extreme Protocols Center is useful, but it I would shy away from spells that affect enemy units globally. In particular there's no VFX that indicates that Blossom Burst was fired on the structure.

Creativity 13/15

While the general tone is exciting there are some spells that are clearly based on vanilla abilities with a slight twist, Pressure for example. I want to see more out of the Phoenix Skystalker - perhaps it explodes into the Phoenix's that pummel the ground as a single use unit. There's a lot of opportunity on your race for these interactions due to the absurd nature of it. Explosion Toads is a joy to use, although I would have them automatically taunt.

Total Score 33/40

Notes:
Sun Shield is missing it's buff and appears to sometimes kill the Blightcleaner after 20 seconds

Well, since I haven't properly given a response to the judging, I think I should do it.

@Kam

Theme: I am glad that we managed to convey the futuristic feeling. We have quite a number of struggles due to limited resources for futuristic materials. Initially, it was supposed to be more human-centric, but as we found elves are more generous for resources and humans are lacking in them, we took elvish direction instead. Big gratitude to @General Frank for his abundant amount of elven tanks!

Gameplay: It seems we missed some visual/buffs during the final check. We will address this in the future, thanks.

Balance: Yeah. Salvage is tricky to get done right, to be honest. We find it somewhat overwhelming and gives a higher edge. It can be quite much higher than normal, depending on the win-loss ratio on engagements (a zero loss engagement is a full-profit), but given how each unit being more valuable than normal for The Last Revolt, a defeat during engagement can be pretty fatal since it will be difficult to reach the previous state once the army gets consumed during an assault (especially losing any Judas Artilleries or Genesis Blades). Crucial structures are also expensive and very risky to get them smashed out of commission. For global effects, given how the effects are mostly not directly affecting health or mana of enemies (except the ultimate, but that one alerts everyone of activation), should be okay. The ultimate one will get somewhat of a visual nerf to give retaliation time and minimize damage taken. The Blossom Burst effect will be addressed, thanks.

Creativity: Phoenix Skystriker was meant to be aerial support for the faction in the concepts. It seems it was not delivered well into the game. We will discuss what best of this unit when we have time for an update.

Reading the whole review, it feels like Skystriker is that kid who ruins the whole feast :p
Poor Skystriker.
 
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Oh, while we're at it, I might as well mention that there were definitely concerns about the potential balance issues of having a flying hero in our techtree. The biggest issue that we saw from the outset was that if you could get it immediately at tier 1, you would have a tier 1 flying unit in the form of a hero, and that would cause all manner of problems - this is where we set it to be a hero that requires tier 2.

As for the capacity to accrue extra resources with it on a flying hero, I'm not too sure whether or not this is overpowered or not, some stat adjustments /may/ be required for it - but by gum I'm glad we conveyed a compelling and interesting hero with the abilities and set up for it :)

After all, we wanted to build the hero around the role of skirmishing, sort of more inclined towards hit-and-run tactics rather than being overly strong in a direct fight. Also, I am very happy with the positive response that @Spellbound and I have received for our entry. Had a lot of fun thinking of how to incorporate new concepts into the game, and the Flying Hero was definitely a very fun point for us to include, partly to see if it was feasible :)

When it all boils down to it, every point said about our entry was every mark we wanted to hit and more, so I'm damn pleased that we nailed it as much as we hoped to. Thank you for judging the contest, @Kam, and I look forward to judging alongside you in the next one ^^
 
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@Kam I noticed your judging has an interesting mistake on MyPad's score. Is it right the creativity is 8/10? Isn't it suppose to be /15?

I suppose it's because I updated my entry during the poll. (I forgot to undo the custom research settings for player 1 & moved Void Enforcer's position to fit the QWER scheme I was going with)[/QUOTE]

Malus suppose to apply after all scores are accounted for. So the malus will hit last. This is how I remember about malus system.
 
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Actually I saw your final result had the 10% removed after the scoring was calculated, so I think your Creativity area should have been graded out of 15 - however, the numbers added accrued to it being out of 35 but the percentage was done with the intended total.

So at the moment it looks like your score would have been 27/35
 
Gameplay 7/10

Watery Gates are a refreshing (har) mechanic. However I want the option to choose which gate will be used in the event I proxy build. There's too many spells with multiple effects and interactions to consider, almost all 25 unit spells fall into this. In large battles it

Also, I noticed this cut-off in @Riki Martin entry review.
 
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@xYours Trulyx

Hey. I actually like the Seraphic Union. Good job! :)

It's great. I like how you try out new ideas and put in great effort to implement them.

The thing I like the most is how we can ask nearby lay brothers to go inside buildings to be trained. This also encourages people to build shanties and more shanties around unit production buildings, which is good, I guess, instead of turning it into just another farm-wall building. Though I'd like a way to cancel the unit training, if that is possible. I like the shanty gold income, too.

The Seraphic Union is quite easy to get on the first go. However, the buildup of the main base, expansions and the army can get rather slow. I could not build up a good army on time (but I did swallow the other AI players, but that's thanks to the last standing AI player), and got myself wiped by the last standing AI player.

Sometimes, the execution may go wrong. Efforts can be wasted when used the inefficient way. Try to spend your efforts and pick your battles wisely. Don't be afraid to try new ideas, but also remember to playtest them to see how it actually goes. Sure, you can always put out new mechanics, but try to think of reasons behind each new mechanic you bring to the table. And how would it interact with other game mechanics, both custom and standard?

It's like somebody has a car with some problems on the lamps and airconds, but they got so frustrated that they wrecked the car causing more damage, instead of taking a quick ride to a repair shop. I hope you get what I mean.

Next time, maybe you should give playtesting a try, experience the design yourself, go through a match with the AI using your techtree. Then notice if there are anything you really like, and if there are anything that turns out to be rather inconvenient. Just my two cents.

Still, you've put in quite a lot of effort and love in your work. Though the execution may use some improvements, the concept, design and aesthetics of your techtree is really nice. I like it.

This is not the end, unless you want it to be.. You can always stand up again, learn from your experiences here, consider the reviews, then arise once again with better designs. You can do it, you've been in the modding scene and contest scene longer than I am. You have achieved a lot in the past, and you can give it a try in the future as well.

All the best, and I wish you luck. It's up to you whether you want to stay or move on. @xYours Trulyx



Yours Truly spent countless hours working on it, majority of things in his map are custom, and in the end what he got in return?

Well, pardon me, but I would like to say something.

Sure, his efforts to come up with custom mechanics are admirable; but in making a techtree, we have to consider the balancing and overall gameplay as well.

If we simply put in a lot of custom models, custom spells and custom systems without much thought then call it a day, we may end up with an overbloated techtree. It can get either too underpowered or too overpowered compared with the four standard races.

I hope you can understand, thank you.

And, who are you even to talk? Biggest slacker in this community, who has never done anything constructive here, but is always first to write wall of texts... I remember once when you actually participated in this kind of contest. You were making some Goblin-Lab race. You even took some unfinished work that you did before, not even starting from scrap, did minimal amount of job on it, and in the end, gave up. Give me a break, please...

Calm down, please. There's no need for hostilities and personal attacks.

And it's a pity for him, because at least he has uploaded a few models and even a spell, yet you did not ever acknowledge those.
 
@MogulKahn the judgement is based on the result, not the effort spent. It means people will have to work smart just as they work hard.
And, who are you even to talk?
Take your gatekeeping elsewhere. You would not be able to meet your own standards.
For the good of the community, it is better off for me to stay silent
It does the community no good if its members do not detail what's on their mind. Please bring up the specific points in Kam's review that you have issues with.
So the malus will hit last.
This is correct.
 
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Also I feel the three weeks of no updates should be reiterated. That and a lot of ideas were regurgitated from last contest, with some minor updates here or there. There was new stuff, too, but the slow start due to the way the economy works is... very unfortunate.

I am unsure if you play tested your own entry or not, but the fact @Directive255 seems to also be under the impression you didn't makes me think there might be something to my hunch in that.

On another note, how is it that somebody who didn't compete (and to my knowledge hasn't competed) is going to try and gatekeep against our beloved @Kyrbi0? Madness.
 
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Speaking of playtesting, I did playtest my own entry a few times, but I overlooked some stuffs because I find the gameplay smooth enough, with my army getting heavily damaged from time to time.

For example, to be honest, I overlooked the Cherrybomber ultimate (only saw the problem when I saw Daffa's gameplay video). I just hoped everything will work out according to logic. I did find the Skystriker to be weak, but did not do anything about it since its weakness is vastly overshadowed by how powerful were the Thundergunners, Genesis Blades and the Artificer.

Most of my playtests were before I implemented a few more tweaks and fixes here and there. I was betting on luck that everything will work out afterwards.

However, in my earlier playtests, I did catch quite a lot of mistakes and errors, then fixed them. But for whatever reason, I had decided to let my guards down after some further changes.

By the way, sorry about all of those @Daffa.
 
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