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Advanced Techtree Contest #1 - Results

Discussion in 'The Arena' started by KILLCIDE, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

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    NOTE: Eagle XI's score was calculated seperately and then added to the Google Doc in the picture above. This is because Eagle XI's entry was not a previous one he has worked on before, therefore not being able to receive a score in the Development criteria.

    Alchemist's Union - Kyrbi0
    • Poll-votes: 2/12
      Final Judgement Score: 43/90
      -------------- ------
      Final Score: 40.01/100
    • Theme: 8/15
      Gameplay: 10/30
      Balance: 5/15
      Creativity: 10/15
      Development: 10/15
      ---------- ------
      Score: 43/90
    • 8/15

      A Goblin race that conforms to that design aesthetic but does not differentiate a great deal. You have some interesting unit concepts but I am unsure how the Rad Rat is Goblin. Your building choice was fitting. The Ooze I like but I think being a ranged unit was a mistake - I can picture the Ooze as an experiment to create an organic combat unit.
    • 10/30

      There's not a great deal working together here. The Bio-reactor is a concept I like as it provides an additional use for workers. I am curious why the primary troop production building produces a magic unit, but I can buy it since your tech tree is campaign sized. It's not compelling.
    • 5/15

      Units seem too strong; I was able to defeat a Orc Insane with a 71 food army. It seems to me that Goblin units would be weaker overall and rely on skill shots or similar nuke abilities. Access to the heavier damage units comes too fast, and they cost too little. Hobgoblin is a huge bang for the gold. Ooze benefits from death, there's no reason not to toss it into battle on the front line. I actually like that as a Goblin unit concept but the stats need to be adjusted and I think it would be better suited a damage sponge melee unit. Whirlgig is just filling a space, it's not worth getting. Waste management should deal more damage and have a downside as well if it's going to require manual casting. I never got to test it as I didn't allow the AI to get into my base, but I would make it heavy damage that dissipates as soon as the enemy unit clears the building.

      There are two severe issues that break this race:
      • The Sludge Tank can AoE heal too often and for too much, especially for the unit cost. A better concept would have been a one-use cast or limited use cast that "drains" the sludge tank. As it stands I can make them and heal as I please.
      • Brain Brew allowed me to basically never be out of mana.
    • 10/15

      You hit on some ideas that I like but Goblins are all about expandable, usable, and unstable units. There should be more of a risk-reward component to each unit, and there should be something with a Suicide like ability. Again I liked the Bio-Reactor concept and I think that should be a racial component, maybe for all the structures.
    • 10/15

      This was originally from TC #9. Previously it had six custom abilities, and the building appearance was not fantastic. Still one hero. I like Waste Management, and the Bio-Reactor. Overall though this is more of a campaign race akin to Naga. While the important roles are filled there is a lack of content particularly in the research and building trees. Additionally there were numerous bugs and the custom race system was not configured.

    Draenei - GhostThruster
    • Poll-votes: 7/12
      Final Judgement Score: 43/90
      -------------- ------
      Final Score: 81.24/100
    • Theme: 14/15
      Gameplay: 25/30
      Balance: 14/15
      Creativity: 12/15
      Development: 15/15
      ---------- ------
      Score: 80/90
    • 14/15

      There's no question this is a Draenei race. It seems to be a vision of them at or near the height of their power as well which is nice to see. There is a significant departure right away with the Naaru "training”. The building choices are spot on, as are icons and unit models.
    • 25/30

      I liked the Vindicator because of Gift of Naaru. I had fun using him with a Anchorite to build the Vindicator like a tank with the Vindicator's spells. I also enjoy units that can merge to create a third unit - the Elekk Knight and Skyguard were fun. I found the Adopt Aspect system interesting but then disappointing. You provide an alternate to building two via the Sanctorium, but if I want to move at a faster pace there the only solution was to build two and then research the adoption. There are a lot of unit target abilities; I think too much to manage at least for an average player.
    • 14/15

      The Vindicator/Venator swap is odd, but also somewhat unfair to opponents. It allows me to go all in ground attack and then immediately counter an enemy who goes with air by recycling now useless units, whereas every other race must train new units. This is compounded by them being able to mount a Nether Ray should the opponent decide to go back to ground units; the squishy anti-air unit is now out of reach. I like the idea behind the system but I would say you should apply it race-wide and experiment with transformation times. Naaru move too fast and being a flying unit I was able to send them off into the corner of the map where only flying units could reach them. This means a player can have nearly invulnerable food supply unless they spend the time to go hunt Naaru. I love Astral Portal but it's hard to see the benefit over a scroll or Mass Teleport, it should not have a span but instead last as long as the Exarch channels and with a maximum unit count (probably 18). Divine Advent is a great initiation spell. In general units are resilient but not devastating. I also feel that the Elekk would be the weaker lower damage siege unit and the Ata'mal Cannon should be the big gun.
    • 12/15

      You skimmed over the surface of some interesting concepts like unit conversion and aspect adoption. Develop those ideas more and implement them as wide ranging racial attribute. Some spells like Safeguard are direct rips of their vanilla bases, avoid that. The hero abilities were, overall, ok. The Exarch I felt was the best developed although I wondered why she is a strength hero instead of Intelligence.
    • 15/15

      The Draenei in your previous work are, compared to this contest entry, not great. They are mostly reskinned/modeled vanilla units with a mix of mostly vanilla abilities and a few that are slightly altered. Buildings do not have correct animations; there is no coherence at all. It does make more sense for the Draenei to control a Nether Dragon as their heavy air unit so I would think about that when you revise your race further.

    Voidspawn - Retera
    • Poll-votes: 2/12
      Final Judgement Score: 64/90
      -------------- ------
      Final Score: 57.51/100
    • Theme: 12/15
      Gameplay: 25/30
      Balance: 12/15
      Creativity: 14/15
      Development: 1/15
      ---------- ------
      Score: 64/90
    • 12/15
      You have a unique design for sure but there is not enough cohesion between buildings or units. You need so spend more time and come up with some common design themes - materials, decorations, etc. Right now it looks like a collection of loosely related creep and Demon models. The UI is nice but a bit sparse along the top and the color is too distracting. I have not played this in some time and I forgot how fun it is
    • 25/30

      I could see Drain Lumber being an issue for expanding if, on a larger map, a Void player was attempting to hide it. DL currently outranges the blight by maybe 2000 distance? I like the Child of the Nether, it's similar to Larva, but the random spread is annoying for unit grouping, a bad idea when the base is being attacked, and adds seconds of delay to building time. The Ethergate doesn't do anything until T2 but can be built at T1. Everything is magic based which makes sense and I like that the Vortex of Sacrifice, I have not seen that concept before. To make it easy I would just use the food cost of the unit and make it a one time "upgrade" for the structure. It can also target Child of the Nether with no effect. The Maw of Oblivion is a blast to play! When he was under Command Aura his deployed damage was listed as 999999-999999 or there abouts. The spells provide a compelling race I have to say. The Expansion Forerunner seems tedious. I would make the Shrine have an ability with infinite range to build another Shrine or Burrower; it seems like something this race should have.
    • 12/15

      The Translocational Way Portal is too large; it makes it difficult to place within a base. 9 basic Implings wrecked a red creep spawn, and Backstab is way too good - as soon as it gets low on health I can activate it and then immediately order it to attack for up to 110 damage. Doing this I can wipe a green camp with two Implings. Most of the units are very strong. I am also not sure it's best for a hero to not have a basic attack (MoO). In his alternate form he is very powerful but I think balanced. Bastion of Lament is not a valid target for Scroll of Town Portal. As far as I could see there was no way to rebuild if my hall would have been destroyed, or expand. Overall units are too powerful for their associated costs and tech levels. Have the Converted Prisoner be available from the town hall once a Prison is built.
    • 14/15

      You've done a lot here, particularly with how buildings are built. The portal is an interesting concept that I like. The system needs some work though as there is no indication of if it is connected and no effect when the link is broken. I suggest using the runes on the base like a clock and have it point in the direction of the linked portal. Also have it auto link the target portal so I don't need to cast it once from each unit. Child of the Nether and Empowered Entherling should be one unit, use spell books to hold the units. Alternatively have it generate both of them as a pair connected, the less clicks to the unit I want the better.
    • 1/15

      Little has changed. I don't really count small aesthetic changes like unit colors.

    Order of Scarlet Flame - Eagle XI
    • Poll-votes: 1/12
      Final Judgement Score: 50/75
      -------------- ------
      Final Score: 43.74/100
    • Theme: 14/15
      Gameplay: 20/30
      Balance: 11/15
      Creativity: 5/15
      ---------- ------
      Score: 50/75
    • 14/15

      Ultra religious Humans, got it. I bet Lord Garithos had something to do with these people. You did well choosing resources that all fit together. Abilities are also in line with the religious theme.
    • 20/30

      Your race suffers here because it feels too much like playing a reskinned Human. Most of the abilities are renamed vanilla abilities. Upgrades are not much different. I question why Powerbuilding is necessary; the resulting build speed bonus is not that substantial particularly when I am unable to train Laborers when researching it. Likewise I'm not sure Improved Sight Radius is a good use of resources. Heroes are incomplete (or seem to have one ability learned). I like the Gryphon Mercenary idea, I wonder if you should have used that more (Abbot?). I loved the Avenger. It's a simple unit using a vanilla ability but the implications in combat are fun.
    • 11/15

      The cooldown and duration on Far Sight are far too low given it has no mana cost and Arcane Towers aren't expensive. Improved Gold Harvesting is way too inexpensive for the huge gain to economy - twice. Guardian Angel is too good - 500 HP instant heal, armor bonus, and AoE! The Catapult Tower is a significant downgrade from the Cannon Tower without any gain. There are a lot of healing/buff spells that allowed me to soundly defeat my enemy.
    • 5/15

      Beyond the theme, which is also taken from lore, the abilities and upgrades are basically stock with flair changes. There is a strong foundation here but not enough to warrant any kind of new concept.

    Congratulations to the winners! I would also like to apologize for the long wait. I had a very busy schedule this summer. I also highly recommend that anyone viewing this thread also come check out the new Advanced Tech-Tree Development forum if you have not already.

    :fp: Contest Thread | Poll
     
  2. stein123

    stein123

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    Congratulations guys!
     
  3. trebla ratilla

    trebla ratilla

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    Congratulations all contestants :D
     
  4. Kam

    Kam

    Patch Moderator

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    Thank you to everyone who participated! Please continue developing your ideas in the new forum.
     
  5. Archian

    Archian

    Site Director

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    Congratulations! The first prize is well deserved :) It was a pleasure to check them all out guys and interesting to see a take on a Draenei tech tree. I think I will join the next contest :)
     
  6. Sin'dorei300

    Sin'dorei300

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    Congratulations, guys!!
     
  7. Heinvers

    Heinvers

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    Well done!
     
  8. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Congratulations! GhostThruster, you definitely deserved the First Place in this Contest; your race was fantastically intricate in it's design. Other Two Guys, you did awexome as well. I only wish I could put more of myself into these things. :< I do so love Techtree Contests.

    Judging Conversation

    I don't know what that first bit means... I felt my Goblins, being more Alchemy/Research/Experiment-focused, were pretty differentiated from the 'standard' Mech/Bomb-focused Goblins.

    You didn't 'get' the Rad Rat!? Aw man, that was one of my crowning achievements, coming up with that. It's PERFECT. What's a more perfect Thematic fit for a race of mad scientists than lab rats! Except it's Warcraft & Goblins, so they are GIANT, MUTATED lab rats. ("Rad" as in "Radiation"). : D

    The Ooze was another good one, thanks... But I don't get it. It was an "organic combat unit"; it was just an organic ranged combat unit. : ) I mean, it makes as much sense for it to wack you with pseudopods (= melee) as it does for it to spit acidic slime (= ranged). I just happened to need a ranged unit, and it helps make it different from the in-game creep "Slime" unit.

    Glad you like the Bio-Reactor, though I agree that it could use some fine-tuning.

    There's your problem; that wasn't the primary 'barracks'. There were two, neither primary/secondary, but rather a "mad scientist barracks" (caster & 2 mech-riding goblins) & an "experiments barracks" (2 hob-things & 2 experimental critters).

    Besides, let's allow for a little creativity in unit placements for once, eh? I wouldn't mind seeing a caster in a standard "primary troop barracks" f'real. ; )

    Yeah, you got me pretty much on all points; Balance is and always has been my weakest point. It's almost a punchline at this point; all my Contest entries (but especially my Techtree ones) suffer from not just bad balance, but inexcusably imbalanced units. The Ooze death was a big issue, the Whirligig needed a soul, Waste Management was a last-minute add-on (I think it's a Thematic home-run, but needs balancing & fine-tuning), and the Sludge Tank/Brain Brew bits are the new "Saboteur" for me.

    I mean, maybe some Goblins are about that. But not necessarily these guys. I don't see how that has bearing. I was coming up with something new, hopefully.

    Suicide-ability, like the (explosive) Goblin Sapper?... I mean, there's a line between "homage" and "copying". But I'm leaning towards that being the latter. Wanted to make a new kind of Goblin, not more of the same.


    You got me on the bugs & unconfigured system, as well as lack of content (upgrades especially).

    However, I was intentionally creating (& then fleshing out) a Naga-style campaign half-race. So there was never going to be more than 1 hero, and not too much more of anything else, actually. The Contest Rules did not dictate the size of our Techtree, and for several reasons I opted to go for a "half-race".


    Looking forward to the next one (even if just to spectate & heckle xD)
     
  9. Kam

    Kam

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    I understand your points on creativity. Perhaps my view of Wc3 Goblins is too narrow. Looking back I see now that you have two Barracks. That was not particularly clear from the building descriptions though. I will need to amend the rules as the expectation is a complete standard race. Three heroes are not required as I understand how long heroes take to flesh out but more than one helps. I encourage you to post in the forum and continue refining your race.
     
  10. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    Totally hadnt expect as my entry was rather incomplete and provided as is.
    Well, thanks.

    Also congratz to the others.
     
  11. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    Congratz to all, and to GhostThruster for first place!
    w00t! The more the merrier!