Idea Thread

[Otaku Dash]

Mmmm I thought about it for a bit... how about "Silverglade" or "Vanguard" for the "good" side and either "Anarcheon" or "Fellspawn" for the "evil" side?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

If you don't want implement to implement caravans in normal mode you might as well not include them at all. As Viikuna said, it will be a lot of code and a lot f work just for an optional mode.

What about "Silverglade" VS "Vanguard". I like this idea.

 

[Lore-Wolf]

but before we can think of a name for a side we need to know what is going to be in it.

 

[Xarwin]

Are you sure about that?
You can't possibly first create things (units, buildings) and then add them into a force .

About the suggestion for the "Silverglade" VS "Vanguard", it doesn't sound that bad.
However I'd like to see Silverglade having another name. What about
"Legionnaires VS Vanguards" ?

 

[Joe-black-5]

"West Coast Hive" vs "East Coast Hive"

 

[Xarwin]

That's not bad either ..
Something like two clans.

 

[HailFireer]

Also about the bosses. One could be Ralle, and he could drop a Banhammer.

 

[Otaku Dash]

Are you sure about that?
You can't possibly first create things (units, buildings) and then add them into a force .

About the suggestion for the "Silverglade" VS "Vanguard", it doesn't sound that bad.
However I'd like to see Silverglade having another name. What about
"Legionnaires VS Vanguards" ?

Legionnaires makes me remember HON for some reason ^_^; How about... Steelhold VS Vanguard?

"West Coast Hive" vs "East Coast Hive"

Not bad aswell... though something makes me think of USA gang wars for some reason... maybe tweaking the names a bit? Still relating to fight between rival clans sounds good =D

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Not bad aswell... though something makes me think of USA gang wars for some reason..

Me too. I really don't like this idea.
You can always use the name "SilverHand" from the lore of wc3 though

 

[calbert]

I think for the name of the 2 sides, it would be easier when most of the hero designs are in and you could split them into 2 groups, then it would be easier to name the sides according to the heros.

As for buildings, they could be the same, as long as they fit the theme of the map.
And again there's really no need for a good side and a bad side as the heros are all from the hive.

I suggest neutral but cool names for each side will do.

 

[Joe-black-5]

it was on purpose to make you guys think of USA coast gangs

 

[Xarwin]

Two neutral forces are the idea, yes.
Basically good vs evil is "opinion vs opinion".
Because the good has the opinion keeping everything friendly around and the evil wants to rule everything in darkness.

And we need those forces because then we also can start working on the buildings and stuff we need.

 

[Joe-black-5]

isn't this about hive members D: ?
how are you guys going to make them good and evil (I know you hammer boy!!, you'll make me some evil schmuck in later versions)

 

[Otaku Dash]

Two neutral forces are the idea, yes.
Basically good vs evil is "opinion vs opinion".
Because the good has the opinion keeping everything friendly around and the evil wants to rule everything in darkness.

And we need those forces because then we also can start working on the buildings and stuff we need.

That is why I put good and evil in brackets... in terms you want probably a clashing of "opinions" instead of "moral" based combat.

Mmm... "kingdom clan" based names maybe...? Dragoncry VS Ravenheart...?

 

[Joe-black-5]

No Dragons PLEASE!

 

[Otaku Dash]

Fine ^_^; You're not making my job easier ya know xD

Greyhound and Ravenheart then? xD

Clan wise... clan wise... How about... Asheron and Mitharin? ^_^;

 

[redscores]

I thought this is about members of THW?

 

[Otaku Dash]

I thought this is about members of THW?

It is? Nobody told me that... if I knew that I wouldn't be shooting up names, since I'm fairly new >_>

I'll standby on ideas till someone confirms this for me.

 

[Xarwin]

Well bring up idea's then.
I'm open for anything.

Vanguard was a nice name, or at least in my eyes.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Vanguard was a nice name, or at least in my eyes.

+1
What about ... IronWill !? I think I've heard this before though ...

 

[Viikuna]

Been discussing about this invisibility system idea with Xarwin.

Anarchon, or whoever your main coder is.

You think it would be possible for this map to use some UnitProperties like unit struct, unit indexing system ( AutoIndex ) and script some health bar script and get rid of Blizzards own bars.

This is also cool if you want to show mana bar, or make mana to be some other than mana... Like evergy and rage in WoW or something. It should work either with images or dummy units. ( The problem kinda is that it will be damn slow if theres too many units at the game in same time, so it takes some careful designing to make map work with not too many units... )

Anyways, this stuff is required for the system idea I have.


edit Invisibility system would basicly exist to locally modify units vertex color, and vertex color of 2 unit related images: Shadow and Health bar. ( Shadows can be captured, Healthbars youll have to trigger, since those are models, not images. ( Correct me if Im wrong ) )

It would allow you to make any unit to have any amount of alpha for any player to see, and allow all kind of different combinations, so you could make spells like:

Curse of Myopia
When players hero has the buff, all units outside of X range become invisible for the player


Also it would be a visual invisibility, meaning that you can still attack the target if it attacks you, and you can still cast spells on it, if you know where it is. This kind of invisibility would work better for AoS maps IMO, because its unlikely for to become so hard to counter as wc3 invisibility. ( So getting detectors makes your life easier, but is not must to do. )

 

[Deolrin]

Uh. So, yeah. It's supposed to be Hive related, no? What if the Hive split up or something. Like "Old Hive" or "Bastion of Ancestry" versus "New Hive" or "Forces of the New Age" or something.

 

[Xarwin]

That's an option too...
"Hive Bastion" versus "Hive Vanguard".

 

[Otaku Dash]

Mmm... how about Australis Hive and Borealis Hive? Australis and Borealis come from the latin phrases "aurora australis" and "aurora borealis" wich mean "Southern Dawn" and "Northern Dawn"... I meant it in a way they look like 2 clans coming from the same hive, but parted somewhere in time.

What do you guys think?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I am not comfortable with the idea of removing the health/mana bars. How do you plan to show the player their HP and the HP of the enemy? By making your own bars? That seems to much work for something as simple as invisibility. You don't want to add the caravan system but yet you want to add this bar system. And you still want to add that suicidal item that will allow you to see invisible units. Meh...

As for Otaku, your idea seem quite intelligent. Though it makes perfect sense (latin names for south and north) I am not sure if Xarwin will like it.

Xarwin, do you need any more ideas besides the name of the teams?
I can't suggest items because you haven't decided the hero attributes yet (body wisdom and that stuff, I am quite confused). I also can't suggest simple items because afaik, HailFire is doing that part of the job and I can't suggest any heroes as well because everyone will want their own hero... I am feeling pretty useless here, is there anything I can suggest?

 

[Kingz]

Hive Legion and Hive Vanguard sounds cool imo.

Also if i want to post an hero idea of myself where should i post it, here or in the other thread?(hero concept submission)

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

You should post it on the Hero concept thread.

 

[Xarwin]

Mmm... how about Australis Hive and Borealis Hive? Australis and Borealis come from the latin phrases "aurora australis" and "aurora borealis" wich mean "Southern Dawn" and "Northern Dawn"... I meant it in a way they look like 2 clans coming from the same hive, but parted somewhere in time.

What do you guys think?

That sounds awesome! "Southern and Northern but in another term. Good thinking, I approve that idea.
"Australis Hive & Borealis Hive".

I am not comfortable with the idea of removing the health/mana bars. How do you plan to show the player their HP and the HP of the enemy? By making your own bars? That seems to much work for something as simple as invisibility. You don't want to add the caravan system but yet you want to add this bar system. And you still want to add that suicidal item that will allow you to see invisible units. Meh...

As for Otaku, your idea seem quite intelligent. Though it makes perfect sense (latin names for south and north) I am not sure if Xarwin will like it.

Xarwin, do you need any more ideas besides the name of the teams?
I can't suggest items because you haven't decided the hero attributes yet (body wisdom and that stuff, I am quite confused). I also can't suggest simple items because afaik, HailFire is doing that part of the job and I can't suggest any heroes as well because everyone will want their own hero... I am feeling pretty useless here, is there anything I can suggest?

Well, now we have some names we could think of on what we'd focus the buildings and units. The common use is good versus evil. Perhaps we should make it look more like mercenaries ? Each side should have a goal to win, either based on a stand-alone story or a hero's storyline to fight.
About the attribute system: The fact is that you simply can't add +.. to strength(body), agility(soul) or intelligence(wisdom).
If you want to create an item which supports strength, you should create it like this:
Grants +10 damage and 100 hit points bonus and +1 to your regeneration.

 

[Kingz]

I am fine with Good Vs Evil if you ask me

It is also easier to make stories for heroes like that.

But your call.

EDIT:

If you don't want a "Good VS Evil" type, i suggest you consider something like League of Legends, all heroes there were summoned by the league or have joined the league to fight on the Plain of Judgement or what ever it's name is.

 

[Otaku Dash]

In a way I thought I bit forward on the terrain issues... Borealis even being latin makes me think Back on Boreas, the Greek/Norse (since norse also relate to Boreas, but he has a diferent name) the Titan god of northern and violent winds.. meaning something more related to colder regions.

Since Warcraft 3 has already a snow theme base, it's just a question of altering it to be more human/clan based.

In that way you can put Borealis Hive more cold base, relating to northern regions (like it's name), and Australis Hive to more temperate/barren wastelands kinda regions like the southern hemisphere (wich in turn also helps if you guys decide to go back on a "good" vs "evil" approach).

Does this sound doable?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Base:
I think it sounds doable. As for the castles and units, I think you should use the Human theme for all buildings. This way you can make good fortifications.
Also, the base should be protected by walls, and units should be allowed to walk on those walls just like in BFME. Here is an example of what I mean:

http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetcnc.gamespy.com/features/reviews/bfme/buildingbuttons.jpg

In order to do walls like these you can use these models:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...-64303/?prev=search=castle%20wall&d=list&r=20

You can even modify the walls so they can have towers and catapults.
I really think the Human theme fits in this project. If you are going to have to defend a base, why not make it epic?

Units:
Players should be allowed to buy mercenaries that would work for them (the player, not the base). However it sucks to control your hero and an army of mercenaries at the same time. This is why, I suggest a unit control system: the mercenaries and all units you buy have a mind on their own, just like the mercenaries in Diablo 2. When you buy a mercenary, he follows you and he does all the stuff you do, he helps you and you don't need to control him.
This system is already done by Vexorian in wc3c.net, I can post it if you need more information.

PS: you can also control the mercenary if you click on him !

 

[syltman]

Base:
I think it sounds doable. As for the castles and units, I think you should use the Human theme for all buildings. This way you can make good fortifications.
Also, the base should be protected by walls, and units should be allowed to walk on those walls just like in BFME. Here is an example of what I mean:

http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetcnc.gamespy.com/features/reviews/bfme/buildingbuttons.jpg

In order to do walls like these you can use these models:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...-64303/?prev=search=castle%20wall&d=list&r=20

You can even modify the walls so they can have towers and catapults.
I really think the Human theme fits in this project. If you are going to have to defend a base, why not make it epic?

Units:
Players should be allowed to buy mercenaries that would work for them (the player, not the base). However it sucks to control your hero and an army of mercenaries at the same time. This is why, I suggest a unit control system: the mercenaries and all units you buy have a mind on their own, just like the mercenaries in Diablo 2. When you buy a mercenary, he follows you and he does all the stuff you do, he helps you and you don't need to control him.
This system is already done by Vexorian in wc3c.net, I can post it if you need more information.

PS: you can also control the mercenary if you click on him !

The "good" theme could be human and the "bad" theme could be orcs, that would be classic and good.

 

[Otaku Dash]

Flame - Someone is missing War of the ring sessions it seems XD

But jokes aside, I kinda see what you mean. I do think a human theme does fit the project, due to the hive clans and what-not, and being a clash of opinions that split them in the first place.. and that is why I only gave a terrain based take down approach.

I dunno if Xarwin will go with catapults though... only if by catapults you mean a based upgrade on pre existent towers, and then again I dunno how that might work out... with the caravan system and all things I've heard about, it would help on defences, but still be something you must look to it.. taking a bit of time on a fast paced game. Still it is an interesting proposition of mechanics.

Mercs... well mercs are a nice Ideas, but then again since I'm fairly new, I'm not familiar with Vexorians work on Merc AI... so I can't give much feedback on that ^_^;

 

[Deolrin]

The Hive should definitely be represented as Orcs. I mean, just look at what appears near your name... Also, I wonder, why don't you guys just go with a "Hive vs WC3C" thing?

Or, well. I still stick with my "New Hive" versus "Old Hive" thing, since I do think a lot of the older members don't like the "new age" with all the noobs and one-lined resource-reviews.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Otaku dash:
Yes, I do miss them ... I will never forget how that mighty flying Narzgul beast kicked the crap out of the ground walking fat ass hero Gimly... oh w8 !?

Jokes aside (as well), you can see the system I mention here:
http://www.wc3c.net/showthread.php?t=83384

It abuses a bug of wc3 in order to make summons (or mercs) protect their master. You can also change it and code your own AI.
Vexorian is the Chuck Norris of wc3 coding. Alone he expanded Blizzards language (JASS) into vJASS and his work is known all over across the world.
Though this particular system may be old, it will be not a problem to learn it's mechanics and use them as we want. Anachron (my ex-pupil) can do that without a problem.

debode:
There are problems if you decide to follow the Orc theme:
1 - you will not be able to implement the terrain as Otaku Dash suggested (North Orcs !? They don't even exist... I suppose Trolls could do it, but once again, who would like to be in a team of freaking trolls ? Seriously, go troll somewhere else you troll !! (joking )).
2 - The wall ideas would not fit and would not be possible to make.

This is a Hive project, no wc3c members involved. We want the people of THW to be remembered, not the people of wc3c. If they want to be remembered than they have to make their own map !

 

[Deolrin]

Flame_Phoenix, do you don't want the oh-so-awesome Vexorian to be remembered, and yet you praise him?
Cool.

Well hmm, don't forget that custom models CAN and WILL be made for the project. A spiked wooden wall and wooden platforms behind it could definitely work. Although I don't see why that idea of yours is so important... But sure.
Thing is that the Hive is really Orc-based with the whole "Peon, Raider, Shaman, Chieftain" thing.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Flame_Phoenix, do you don't want the oh-so-awesome Vexorian to be remembered, and yet you praise him?

Vexorian is already remembered and immortalized. He doesn't need to take the space of someone else in the project so people can know who he is.

Hive follows the Orc hierarchy because B.net clans have orcs as well. It was not much of a choice at the time. Still, your are right, this decision is up to Xarwin and not to us. The bad thing with making models is that it will add an extra time to the development.

 

[Xarwin]

Well.
Humans could take up a cold area and Orcs the barren wastelands.
In that way it suits perfectly and models can indeed be made.

 

[Kingz]

Would that mean that there will be only human/orc hero models implemented?

Probably a stupid question but a question still...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Orcs ... well, at least they are better than the trolls ...

 

[Xarwin]

Would that mean that there will be only human/orc hero models implemented?

Probably a stupid question but a question still...

No, not really.

Orcs ... well, at least they are better than the trolls ...

Well, you can still suggest some other things.
I still think some kind of legionnaires versus mercenaries would look nice.

 

[Kingz]

I am really getting interested in how will this project look when relleased.

I sure would like to play myself in a map against THW members!

Anyway i think barrens/winter terrain diversity would make the map look funny.

I would suggest swamp/jungle like terrain with stuff like custom trees/bushes to make it unique(i am sure you planned custom models/textures for terrain stuff anyway).

Im not saying barrens/winter is bad, it is just my opinion, i just like jungle/swamp/forest terrains more.

 

[calbert]

Hmm so doing a orc theme and a human them for the 2 sides..

I think this could make the dividing heros into different teams if that's decided.

It'll mostly be having humans / elf / dwarf on the "human" team and the rest barbaric stuff on the other team?

I think it is ok so the "human side" kina represents the people who are following the rules and make steady progress, against the "orc side" which is those who are more wild and crazy in trying out new things. That way both are neutral.

BTW catapults could just be another type of tower with longer range, longer cooldown and splash while towers are short range faster and no splash. Towers on the walls and catapults behind it, shooting over the wall. Epic bases are good.

 

[Viikuna]

I am not comfortable with the idea of removing the health/mana bars.

Dude. There is not even mana bars in wc3. Only health.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

BTW catapults could just be another type of tower with longer range, longer cooldown and splash while towers are short range faster and no splash. Towers on the walls and catapults behind it, shooting over the wall. Epic bases are good.

In BFME your walls have an upgrade spot every X meters. Upgrade spots start as empty walls, however you can upgrade them into:
- towers
- catapults (really like this idea, hope you like it too)
- secret passages (secret passages allow you to flank the enemy when he doesn't expect it. Only allied players of the team can see them. The enemy destroys a secret passage if he destroys the upgrade stop containing it).

Problem with picking orcs is that you will need:
- new wall models
- new catapult models(?)
- new secret passage models (if implemented)

In order to facilitate the siege of a castle, mercs could also allow you to buy a catapult or something and then the team would need to defend the catapult while attacking. Just an idea.

Viikuna: you get my point. I am still not comfortable with the idea. Somehow I don't believe that idea can result in something decent - we both know that bar systems always mess up when you resize windows and such.

 

[Viikuna]

Viikuna: you get my point. I am still not comfortable with the idea. Somehow I don't believe that idea can result in something decent - we both know that bar systems always mess up when you resize windows and such.

Actually I dont get your point. And they dont mess up when resizing.

( Maybe some lame texttag based ones do, dont know about that, but that kind of bar systems are ugly anyways. Id not personally use those. )



And my name is not Viikuna either, btw. Its Viikuna. If its hard for you to learn to type it correctly, just ask someone to teach you how to use Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V for copying it.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

( Maybe some lame texttag based ones do, dont know about that, but that kind of bar systems are ugly anyways. Id not personally use those. )

If you don't plan on using textags to make HP bars, what do you exactly have in mind? Personally I don't know any other way, iirc.

And my name is not Viikuna either, btw. Its Viikuna. If its hard for you to learn to type it correctly, just ask someone to teach you how to use Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V for copying it.

No need to get angry. It's just a lot funnier to type it this way.

 

[Xarwin]

Could you guys also please take a note that the terrain is created.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/166837-albums3135.html

 

[Kingz]

Imo terrain showcase #6(the one with the cathedral) is pretty plain at some parts.

Though i am guessing there will be something more on those empty spots?

 

[Numerion]

Empire vs Chaos? Discipline vs Rule-breakers ? or something similar?

My question is...what about runes/shrines which would be spread randomly around the map? (more like shrines in Diablo , cause they were pwnsome...)
And what about some kind of neutrals? will they be in there?

Btw Viikuna he made that underline to show that there are those i's