Hero Concept Comment Thread

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Septimus created the thread, and has posted 2 concepts. WTF?

WOOOOTT Suddently my comment is here?? Shit's fucked up man! It's fucked up!
 
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Septimus created the thread, and has posted 2 concepts. WTF?

WOOOOTT Suddently my comment is here?? Shit's fucked up man! It's fucked up!

I was moving your post to this thread.

As for the concept, you obviously do not read the rules or else you would not have make such a statement.

2) If you submit a hero concept that represent other user of hive, you must have their concern before you do so. Any hero concept that are done without the concern of the user would be rejected.

3) The maximum hero concept that you could submit for each individual user are three. If all three hero concept was rejected due to certain circumstances, you would be notify about it.

I have General Frank permission.
 
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I did actually read it, i just think it is weird that the thread creator made 2 concepts.
 
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Oh lol, i forgot the rules, so what? Can you remember all the hive rules in your head, if you read them 3 days ago?
 
Septimus, I want to make a hero for Dealin (one of my greatest wc3 idols) however he left wc3 a LONG time ago and it is impossible to talk to him because he left no contact.
I made a research and I have some of his spells. I was thinking in changing those spells to the light theme (because he liked light themes) and make a support / push hero (most of his spells are like that, and I have 2 in mind). He also likes gemoetric formulas a lot, and so I had some in mind for his spells (I have a system made by him!).

Is it OK if I suggest a hero based on his work and on his avatar (an elf) ??
Please !!!!!!!

And btw, what happens to the hero concepts that desobey the rules (such as having imported models?)?
 
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Septimus, I want to make a hero for Dealin (one of my greatest wc3 idols) however he left wc3 a LONG time ago and it is impossible to talk to him because he left no contact.
I made a research and I have some of his spells. I was thinking in changing those spells to the light theme (because he liked light themes) and make a support / push hero (most of his spells are like that, and I have 2 in mind). He also likes gemoetric formulas a lot, and so I had some in mind for his spells (I have a system made by him!).

Is it OK if I suggest a hero based on his work and on his avatar (an elf) ??
Please !!!!!!!

I have to ask Xarwin regarding the hero concept of a hive user who no longer able to be contact. If he say yes, then you could submit the concept and if he say no, sorry then.
 
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And btw, what happens to the hero concepts that desobey the rules (such as having imported models?)?

We would tell them that we do not accept custom model and request them to pick a normal warcraft 3 unit. If there is no response for a period of time, we would probably reject his/her hero concept and replace it with the other hero concept of other user that are not accepted for various reason such as reaching the limit of hero concept accepted.
 
We would tell them that we do not accept custom model and request them to pick a normal warcraft 3 unit. If there is no response for a period of time, we would probably reject his/her hero concept and replace it with the other hero concept of other user that are not accepted for various reason such as reaching the limit of hero concept accepted.
Great, then I assume you already warned Cpt.ZnacK and Amigurumi right?
 
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I'd like to note that I was the one who wrote FrIkY's hero concept for him.


:p

(Besides the icons and pretty much all art stuff, that is)

Also, some heroes look overpowered while some heroes look way weak. For example some heroes have an ultimate that deals 500 damage, while some have an ultimate that deals 150 damage. Will you fix that?
 
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And on the other hand, you have a spell that only reduces someone's ability to heal. :p
Like... It does nothing. At all. :p

Well that's why I asked, with all these heroes the game wont be balanced. I never said my hero is balanced while everyone else's is not, what I asked is what you're going to do about it. :p

I mean you have an ultimate that deals 300 damage while some people(cough cough me) have normal spells that deal 1000 damage, how is that going to be fixed?
 
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I guess all the values of the spells will be balanced after accepting the concepts. By posting them now with values, you only give an example of how it could look like. the seriouse balancing will be done later, if I understood that correct!

yep.. the balance issue would be taken once we have sufficient concept.
 
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Well the spells will be indeed balanced, otherwise there is no point in the game.
And people are able to use customized icons and small special effects which can be attached to the model.
But I'd like to remind people that not everyone can use 4 custom icons. It really depends on the spell and combination. There are a lot of in game icons which also can be used in a positive way. The same for models. With a good idea and right attachment things may look refreshing good.

About the case with Daelin or people in memories; I have another idea.
I suggest using them as specific mercenaries in the game (which can be hired by the hero to fight side by side, automatic controlled AI, vexorian's system) or simply as a lane attribute.
 
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Also, some heroes look overpowered while some heroes look way weak. For example some heroes have an ultimate that deals 500 damage, while some have an ultimate that deals 150 damage. Will you fix that?

Lols. Throwing numbers has no real use yet anyways.

Just forget the numbers and focus on the concept. Numbers come later with careful play testing and balacing.
 
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I edited my concept, worked on getting the spells more interesting, making the biography more appealing and tried to change some stuff, I now have in mind to use two ingame icons and attach a speciall effect to medivh's weapon. (also ingame)

I would be happy with some feedback, feel free to comment on that ;) (i guess, this is one of the reasons of the thread, right? )
 
You want feedback M0rbid ? Careful with what you wish for.
Let's see your hero.

If you want a good hero you should focus on a tactic. Currently your hero lacks one (as 99% of the heroes suggested).

LifeDrain is simply useless (at best). I don't understand if ForcePull is instant or channeled, but I believe it is instant (makes more sense this way).
Force jump seems to be a normal ability, but in your ulti you mention "attack speed" increase but you only say the values for the move speed and not for the attack speed bonus.

I can see an innitiator / ganker in your hero, and it is not one of the worst (it is actually one of those heroes with a chance of being very good), but it needs to be changed.

Constructive criticism:
- Your hero has great potential to innitiate battles. Let's make up a case:
You jump into the fight and pick a target. You use the ultimate and attack. The target runs away, but you manage to push him back to you. Finally you get weak and you ... channel an HP stealing ability that makes you completely vulnerable and unable to move!? It doesn't make any sense.
My suggestion -> make Life Drain an instant ability. Something that deals minor damage to all surrounding units but that allows you do gain instant HP in a quick way. You can even slow the units around you (instead of letting your ulti doing that, which would make your hero stronger in earlier game).
As for the ultimate, it is nothing new. People like something new. I understand you will want to be chasing enemies, or to kill them fast (dunno if you want to be a chaser or a killer), but I suggest a morph ability. You could transform your hero into some dark creature that would have bonus abilities such as extra movespeed, some twicked critical strike and so on. Another idea would be using a morph ability that would improve all your other skills (while in morph form LifeDrain steals more HP, you jump faster and so on ... ).

Suggested tactic:
- You pick target and you jump into to the fight
- when you jump, you KNOW you will be the first target
- you soak some damage, and after that you use lifeDrain and get your HP back on and slow enemy units (you can remove the slow and replace it with a - armor buff?)
- if the enemy runs, you pull him back
- you can use your ultimate to finish anything

I think that changing your hero according to my suggestions will make him a stronger and more viable hero in any time of the game, and any gamer will agree with me.

You asked for feedback, here is mine, I hope you enjoy it and use it.
I actually have some hope in your hero, which is rare after all the crappy concepts I saw.

You can make this hero concept as good as (or better than?) Septimus heroes (those are the best), but it is really up to you.
 
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@Septimus, you should really look in to custom icons. If people have 4 custom icons, each each one takes 25 kbs for example its way more then letting them have an import model. So you should try and find replacements that are in-game if there are some. You can get someone to help you too. Sorry to put this on you too.

NOTE: If you can't have a hero for one reason or another, come to item tread and post a concept of an item that will be named after you. Keep in mind that it has to be made out of basic items (you can find a list if you look through the discussion). And the item doesn't have to be the most powerful one in the game ^^
Note that it might not be made in the game, because we cant have 300 items, especially if they deffer from one another by very little.
 
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@Septimus, you should really look in to custom icons. If people have 4 custom icons, each each one takes 25 kbs for example its way more then letting them have an import model. So you should try and find replacements that are in-game if there are some. You can get someone to help you too. Sorry to put this on you too.

NOTE: If you can't have a hero for one reason or another, come to item tread and post a concept of an item that will be named after you. Keep in mind that it has to be made out of basic items (you can find a list if you look through the discussion). And the item doesn't have to be the most powerful one in the game ^^
Note that it might not be made in the game, because we cant have 300 items, especially if they deffer from one another by very little.

Read the submission rules.

4) You're welcome to post an custom icon of your heroes abilities at your hero concept. But do remember this is hero concept and your hero could be subjected for alteration from time to time.

The alteration refer to the usage of the normal model for attack projectile, warcraft 3 ordinary icon and so on.
 
M0rbid:
Your concept has evolved to almost a nice ganker. Now let's create scenarios and evaluate them.

First skill:
Your jump skill already has a stun. Let's imagine that you start with the jump, stun them, and then you simply use this skill and slow them. A pretty powerful combination.
I considered giving a "negative armour bonus" instead of the slow, but I really think this build makes your hero a lot stronger and I kinda like. The tactical line is now very obvious. However, we can twik the ability. Instead of stealing 75 HP to each unit, why not make the HP that you steal dependant on the number of units surrounding you? Per example: The Sith lord gains 300 HP that steals from enemies near him. The HP that the Sith Lord gains is distributed in damage all around him. My words are not the best so I give an example. If you use the ability and have 1 unit near you, you gain 300 HP and the unit takes 300 damage. If you use the ability and you have 5 units near you, the hero gains 300 HP but each unit takes 300/5 damage. If you have 0 units near you, you gain 0 HP.
This is just an idea, you are NOT forced to use it. The purpose of this suggestion is making your hero more 1v1 based and more balanced in team fight, although balance won't be much of a problem with your current build.

Second skill:
Let's now try to initiate a battle with your second skill. The enemy will see you are pulling them, so their immediate reaction will be -> kill the guy. Chances say you will never finish your channelling because you will be focused. The problem with channelling abilities is that they put a marker on your head saying "kill me" and they make you extremely vulnerable. I suggest another type of implementation, making this ability instant would be perfect. You can make the distance pull depend on the current mana of your hero, so great distances always require great amounts of mana. This way the ability is balanced and you are more powerful / faster to control. Other ideas are sending a widget into a position and then, when you use the widget, the target is pulled back.

Ultimate:
Not bad at all. It helps you to be a very good initiator and a even better ganker. However ... Having in mind it is a Sith Lord and that Anachron has a projectile system that is imba ...
I suggest something a little bit different.
- The Sith Lord creates a force field around him that slows enemies (or stops them) for X% and slows all incoming projectiles (or stops them) for Y%. When the force field ends, all projectiles go in the opposite directions and hit the owners.
It can be channelled (because it can be extremely strong) or instant as you may wish.
Even if you refuse this idea, I would like you to considerate using Anachrons projectile system. If the team has resources, then why not use them?
Just a thought.

Hope you like the feedback and constructive criticism.

Debode, I may see your hero later. It's not a promise, I am a busy person, and besides M0rbid gave me rep++ so his one level above you in the stack :p
 
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Hmm..
Sunday I will start to approve heroes which will suit the map.

I highly recommend people to ask for advice on team members like Septimus or Flame_Phoenix how your hero is in their eyes.
They might notify you of errors you didn't noticed or how to improve your hero.
 
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@Flame_Phoenix: thanks a lot again, your tipps are really useful, I'll try to improve my hero again using your comment.
About the ultimate: I had this idea in mind, too, but I feared it would resemble to much of the diablo 3 ability, but I'll try to make something out of it ;)
 
About the ultimate: I had this idea in mind, too, but I feared it would resemble to much of the diablo 3 ability, but I'll try to make something out of it ;)
And the Diablo 3 ability resembles too much with Chronos ultimate on Dota. Sometimes it's just hard to do things. Anachrons system is quite nice. You can even empower projectiles that pass the force field or make them simply bounce and go back to the owner as soon as they touch the force field. It would protect your team from any ranged enemy fire and force them to either retreat or enter the force field. If an enemy is inside the force field it can also take damage over time (if you don't like the slow or stun).

EDIT EDIT EDIT


I also have a few questions for Xarwin / Septimus about the hero concepts.
Why only until lv 25?
Why only 3 ultimates? Why are they in levels 6, 11 and 16 instead of 6, 12, 24 ?
Why having stats ?
Why not make the heroes up to level 30 or 10? Why not make abilities for ALL levels instead of filling them with crappy stats?
What about the "Heroic Stances" of the heroes?

I would also like that Septimus could ask people to add another field in the concept description, a field called "function". This field should explain what is the main role of the hero on a TEAM and how it can be accomplished using his skills. Basically this will force people to create a tactical line, even if it is weak, at least it will exist.
 
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I also have a few questions for Xarwin / Septimus about the hero concepts
.

Why only until lv 25?

If you view any other aos genre map, most of the game last about 40-50 minutes and it usually took about 45-55 minutes to reach lvl 25. Infact, sometimes it was tough to even reach the max lvl after 50 minutes had passes.

Why only 3 ultimates? Why are they in levels 6, 11 and 16 instead of 6, 12, 24 ?

If the ultimate have higher or equal amount of level with the rest of the ability, it cannot be consider as ultimate ability at all. If you view even the ordinary wc3 campaign, ultimate ability just consists of 1 level while ordinary ability consists of 3.

Also, if we have any higher it might cause a serious issues of inbalance. For example, some ultimate ability could damage tower and if we make the ultimate to have too much multiple level. The tower would be soo fragile as it was a glasses.

As for lvl 24 to have level 3 ultimate, it was a bad idea since most of the aos was already at the end of the game.

Why having stats ?
Why not make the heroes up to level 30 or 10? Why not make abilities for ALL levels instead of filling them with crappy stats?
What about the "Heroic Stances" of the heroes?

exp are harder to increase at higher level and we don't want the aos to last to long.

I would also like that Septimus could ask people to add another field in the concept description, a field called "function". This field should explain what is the main role of the hero on a TEAM and how it can be accomplished using his skills. Basically this will force people to create a tactical line, even if it is weak, at least it will exist.

Sounds like a good idea, but this field would be require once the hero concept was approve.
 
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If you view any other aos genre map, most of the game last about 40-50 minutes and it usually took about 45-55 minutes to reach lvl 25. Infact, sometimes it was tough to even reach the max lvl after 50 minutes had passes.

Bullshit. You are the designer. You control the flow of xp and level count. Its not about how it usually goes in AoS maps. Its about how you choose to do it.
 
If you view any other aos genre map, most of the game last about 40-50 minutes and it usually took about 45-55 minutes to reach lvl 25. Infact, sometimes it was tough to even reach the max lvl after 50 minutes had passes.
This is what I feared. You are trying to make something different by copying everything else. It doesn't make any sense.

If the ultimate have higher or equal amount of level with the rest of the ability, it cannot be consider as ultimate ability at all. If you view even the ordinary wc3 campaign, ultimate ability just consists of 1 level while ordinary ability consists of 3.
Well, you have 25 levels, Instead of having dummy levels that you fill with stats, why don't you simply upgrade the abilities? This way the abilities woudn't have 5 levels, they would have more. And the number of ultimates would still fit.

Also, if we have any higher it might cause a serious issues of inbalance. For example, some ultimate ability could damage tower and if we make the ultimate to have too much multiple level. The tower would be soo fragile as it was a glasses.

As for lvl 24 to have level 3 ultimate, it was a bad idea since most of the aos was already at the end of the game.
Correct me if I am wrong but ultimates are supposed to be .. well... ultimates right!? There is no problem in having more than 3 ultimates and there is no problem in having them equally spaced. If an ultimate is strong it is only a matter of balance.
The perfect example would be "Age of Myths" clan edition. Each hero had 4 ultimates and 1 level 25 super ultimate. Having in mind heroes will also be having an "Heroi Stance" I don't see why level 25 should be the limit.
As for the towers, they will be upgraded automatically by the income from caravans and by the players, so the level of difficulty will always be the same.
When a hero makes a 1v1 stand against a tower and wins, it's only because the gameplay design is very poor. You should not follow such things.

exp are harder to increase at higher level and we don't want the aos to last to long.
Bullshit. You are the designer. You control the flow of xp and level count.
<3 Viikuna.
Exactly. If you think that going up to level 50 takes too long, than you can simply give more exp for each creep kill. If you think the bosses will be weak, than you should make their HP dynamic, per example, a total HP of a boss would be the sum of the HP from all heroes on the team plus X.
There are several ways of balancing stuff, and with Viikunas vJass knowledge and Anachrons systems, you really don't have much of an excuse.

One of my questions remains though:
What about the "Heroic Stances" of the heroes?

Sounds like a good idea, but this field would be require once the hero concept was approve.
I think that asking people to define a tactical line before submitting their heroes will actually improve them. They are making the heroes so they should choose their function. Thx.
Bullshit. You are the designer. You control the flow of xp and level count. Its not about how it usually goes in AoS maps. Its about how you choose to do it.
What can I say? The man knows it all.
rep++
 
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Hey, can I have some feedback on mine? I'll update it if I get enough feedback, and I'll also put the model paths soon.

Feign death should be breakable anytime if it's not already. I image that this hero could be a cool guy who can gank anyone who tries to run and also hide with his ulti, then do his "stun", "nuke" and some melee attacks. Problem might be that he can't finish someone off quickly enough that way so that he'll need someone to help do the damage, which would remove the point of hiding with ulti as only he can do it.

Anyways I think he could do some nice surprise attacks with help of others.

Some feedback on my hero please, I can't decide if he'll be too op with these attacks or too weak. He's meant to be a support with lots of ways to weaken the enemy to make them useless while remaining a strong auto attacker. And when he's in trouble he can flee using his ulti or use his ulti to kill melees.
 
Feign death should be breakable anytime if it's not already. I image that this hero could be a cool guy who can kill anyone who tries to run.
I have a different opinion. I think it is a mix between something that is overpowered and something that is extremely useless at the same time.
I will make a feedback post later, as I must go now.
And the ultimate is breakable at any time already.

Septimus, you should also add a "word limit" for spell descriptions and biographies. This will make your job easier.
 
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Bullshit. You are the designer. You control the flow of xp and level count. Its not about how it usually goes in AoS maps. Its about how you choose to do it.

Instead of acting like a retarded troll, how about you check the working field of those project team members? I am concept manager and I am not responsible in those xp and level count issues, my duty was just to gather those hero concept and fix the submission to allowed the rest of the developer have an easy time to work on it.

I am not responsible for the balancing issues, so stop your stupid trolling. It is very offensive when you say bullshit without even knowing the working field of the person.

It already irk me when I have to spend almost 50 minutes to fix most of the hero submission for not following the appropriate format. I don't need this kind of trolling attitude to spoil my mood even further.

If you want to whine about the xp rate and level count, tell it to Xarwin and Trax. It was Xarwin who told me about the hero max level to be 25-30 and it was Trax. responsibility when it comes to balances issues.

Don't like my aggressive tunes? Then watch your language in the future.

This is what I feared. You are trying to make something different by copying everything else. It doesn't make any sense.

This was generally not my idea, ask Xarwin cause he is the one who request the level to be 25-30 and ability to be consists of 5 level and ultimate to be 3 level.

Septimus, you should also add a "word limit" for spell descriptions and biographies. This will make your job easier.

It already inside this rules, don't worry about it.

9) Ensure your biography, ability description and ability level description as short and precise as possible so it would fit in the object editor.
 
I was expecting such an answer from you Septimus. Still, you can't really blame Viikuna and me for bashing you with arguments when you replied to our questions defending Xarwin's point of view.
I will be sure to show this thread to Xarwin once I get the chance. Meanwhile try not to kill Viikuna. Sure he used some direct language, but that's who he is, a direct person.
Besides, if this is not your fault, than you should not be angry right? Try relaxing a bit :p

It already inside this rules, don't worry about it.

9) Ensure your biography, ability description and ability level description as short and precise as possible so it would fit in the object editor.
I was expecting something more precise like the following:

9) Your biography and the description of your abilities must NOT have more than 150 words. Descriptions and biographies with more than 150 words will make your concept get rejected.

This way you force people to count the words of their texts, therefore making it easier for you to mod them, because you are sure they will fit into the object editor. The number 150 can be any other number you find proper.
 
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I was expecting such an answer from you Septimus. Still, you can't really blame Viikuna and me for bashing you with arguments when you replied to our questions defending Xarwin's point of view.

Defending Xarwin point of view? Please!! I was working within my boundary and I was doing exactly what Xarwin request, a person cannot work over the boundary of what he is suppose to be limit to.

I will be sure to show this thread to Xarwin once I get the chance. Meanwhile try not to kill Viikuna. Sure he used some direct language, but that's who he is, a direct person.

There is a big difference between direct language and offensive language. He could have say it in nicer way such as "This idea was unacceptable" rather than "Bullshit".

Besides, if this is not your fault, than you should not be angry right? Try relaxing a bit :p

Because he was trolling and trying to act smarts without even knowing what is my working position in this project.

I was expecting something more precise like the following:

9) Your biography and the description of your abilities must NOT have more than 150 words. Descriptions and biographies with more than 150 words will make your concept get rejected.

This way you force people to count the words of their texts, therefore making it easier for you to mod them, because you are sure they will fit into the object editor. The number 150 can be any other number you find proper.

Sounds like a good idea, but I would have to test the object editor to see exactly how many word fit into the object editor.
 
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