Item Discussion Thread

[HailFireer]

Flame, we were working on things. I was working on items, but then you had to come along and ruin it with your idea...


Rest is TL;DR so I wont read it

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

People why so negative? Why discuss the bad things about the map instead of discuss how to improve it?

Because when someone makes a suggestion of a different system and is supported, other people don't want to hear the truth and simply start jumping on the guy and trying to kill him, instead of evaluation the suggestion nicely and calmly.

Flame, we were working on things.

We weren't. YOU took over the thread and YOU were. Now I come here and I disagree with you, which obviously makes you feel mad, because you feel your control is somehow threatened, which I understand.

I was working on items,

This is not a job for you to do alone. Your are a part of a team and you will do well to remember that. If I ruined anything it's because that anything was already bad in the first place and it was not strong enough to survive criticism.

You seem to be taking this like a war. You see yourself like the white knight in the shiny armour and me like the bad guy trying to kill your ideas and items.
Truth could not be more distant.
Let's be realistic about this for a second: Xarwin knows the gem's idea is good and he also knows the time you wasted on recipes. The most plausible solution will be to have a mix of our own ideas (like he suggested) in order to create a better idea. Your items won't die, they may need to be remade, but you are used to do that anyway.

We have been trying to kill each other's ideas with arguments and so far we failed. This is good, it means our ideas survived to criticism and thus, they have a strong basis.

Why don't we think about something to mix them? The best from the world of gems with the best from the world of recipes. Everyone gets candy and everyone gets happy.

What do you say?

 

[HailFireer]

Hear what truth. I don't like it. Period. And judging by the popularity of maps that use that system...

I took it over because we had item submissions waiting to be approved for 5 months. No one was doing anything so I tried to do something. Only criticism its getting is you and debode.

Not like you. All you did was suggest and idea that will destroy work. Its a bad idea just like some other I herd for other parts of the game.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

If you judge a map by it's popularity than we have nothing to talk about.

Didn't it occur you back then, that if the items were waiting, perhaps there was a reason? You can't just jump in and start doing work on what you think it's nice without the team having the basis defined. That's what you get.

I will ask Xarwin about this.

 

[Kingz]

Let's face something, who in here has played a map with the "sockets" idea?
Does at least 10% of people who play WC3 online know about it and how it works?

Now let's see how much people know about Dota, how much know about recipes?


I can guarantee that at least 400% more people know to handle recipes than there is a number of people that knows to use sockets.

What if a person dislikes sockets?
What if a person likes recipes?

Let me make something clear:
A Change is not always a good thing.

Sometimes you should stick to the thing that works.

I don't see this major discussion about "sockets", i myself find it dumb, if i want sockets i will play Diablo 2...

People want variety, people want epic items, they don't want 20 basic items with shiny gems inside them.

I for once think it is rather cool to have an inventory filled with unique items than settle for 20 items...
I am sure i am not the only one who aproves of my thinking...

If you judge a map by it's popularity than we have nothing to talk about.

An unpopular map is a dead map.
What use is of a great map which no one plays?

You can't just jump in and start doing work on what you think it's nice without the team having the basis defined.

But Xarwin already defined the BASICS. He said in the item concept submission you should state if an item is an Recipe Item or not...

This is good, it means our ideas survived to criticism and thus, they have a strong basis.

No it doesn't.
It means you are stubborn, i am more than willing to stand for the idea of recipes than for sockets.

Let's be realistic about this for a second: Xarwin knows the gem's idea is good and he also knows the time you wasted on recipes.

So you are speaking in Xarwin's name now are you?

 

[HailFireer]

Items were waiting because there was no one to approve them. Xarwin was busy with other stuff. So I asked him and he said yes, and I reviewed them.


And popular maps do have quality. And I don't care if your talking about quality of the code and stuff. For me a good map is a fun map, that doesn't lagg, crash, or have to many bugs. I don't care if its Jass, vJass or GUI. And neither does your average player.

 

[Deolrin]

If you two are judging a map's quality by it's popularity, I'm out of that discussion. That's a most retarded way to judge a map.
Lots of people play "Bleach vs One Piece", "Naruto Shippuden", "Fight of Characters", "Troll and Elves" and all those lame, retarded maps. Does that makes them any good?

Anyways, you all seem to take DotA as an example, which is, once again, retarded. DotA is popular but not special or good in any way. It's not even fun to play. And the community just plays it over and over and over, and it's like other games don't exist, at all.

 

[HailFireer]

OK, first, we are talking about popularity of maps amongst NORMAL people. And we all know that thos dumb maps you mentioned are not played by normal people.

And DotA is good. Not that fun to play by m standards. But it got good code, good items, good balance.

And, I said how I judge map. By how fun it is, bugs, lagg and fatals.

 

[Deolrin]

Oh, you make perfect sense now!
So if a map got a socket system instead of a recipe system, it for sure has "bugs, lagg and fatals." and is not fun to play?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

An unpopular map is a dead map.

The best maps and campaign I've ever played in my life are now dead, but people still remember them and still know what they are. I have 2 exmaples: Pyrities adventure and RotG. I had the luck of being part of Pyrities success campaign and I can tell you why it was such a success: because Pyritie was never afraid of trying new stuff. He believed that fun things should be original and he was right.
A campaign that gets forever remember will never die, same happens to maps.

I don't see this major discussion about "sockets", i myself find it dumb, if i want sockets i will play Diablo 2...

If I want to play a cheap copy of Dota I will play HoN and not HB.

So you are speaking in Xarwin's name now are you?

Having in mind you bother enough to reply me, perhaps you should also take your time and read the forum? Xarwin suggested the mix in the first place, it was his idea, not mine. And I am being realistic, I truly think that Xarwin has reason and that the mix is the best solution.

If you two are judging a map's quality by it's popularity, I'm out of that discussion. That's a most retarded way to judge a map.

They do it ...
And for the record, I support Debode 100%.

OK, first, we are talking about popularity of maps amongst NORMAL people. And we all know that thos dumb maps you mentioned are not played by normal people.

Just because you don't play a map it doesn't mean other people don't play it. Every sentece you write makes me believe that all you want id is to make another casual AoS with nothing new and with a mesh of old ideas and concepts that have already been explored for years and that people are already tired of.
How can you possibly expect to succeed if you don't innovate?

got good code

Jesus Christ, what an ignorant !!! I broke into Dota's code with one of my students (Anachron) and I tell you DOta is an insult to human code. Anachron can crap better code than that. I am not alone with this opinion, after discussing some of Dota's code with wc3c community many people support Anachron. He didn't need much to show people how bad Dota is: lost items in the map, unused code, use of a variant of Kattana's system (still using) and problems with the return bug were just some of the diseases Anahcron found.
Don't talk about what you don't know. Dota's code is extremely bad, and Dota's playing community is even worst.

 

[HailFireer]

First of, I newer said sockets will bug the game.

Second, "OK, first, we are talking about popularity of maps amongst NORMAL people. And we all know that thos dumb maps you mentioned are not played by normal people." was an answer to debodes list of maps (naruto, bleach..) that are popular. I said no one normal plays them. It has nothing to do with answer you just wrote about if I don't play maps and stuff. It was an answer to a thing you didn't read entirely (or didn't understand) so don't answer, since you gave a wrong answer to a question that was newer asked!!


DotA code doesn't make game lagg 9thus doesn't leek to much), doesn't cause fatals, and works decently. Also take note that DotA we know today was developed by 5 or so leaders in different time, and it started 5-6 years ago, and less people knew how to code good back then. especially since map was started by an average mapper. And once part of code is done, no need to change it if it works.

 

[Kingz]

DotA is popular but not special or good in any way. It's not even fun to play

Reply:

Jesus Christ, what an ignorant !!!

There is a lot of people on THW that think Dota is crap and i see no reason for it, but i guess some people can't help it but to express their hatred on what seems to be a point in WC3 that is known by almost all.

DotA is the only map/mod of WC3 that brings tactics and teamplay to shine at it's peak.
If you never noticed this and if you get bored while playing the DotA that is your problem, it isn't about the game or the map.

Also who cares how is the map coded? I never noticed any lag or major bugs in the map while playing it and that is what i care about...

If I want to play a cheap copy of Dota I will play HoN and not HB.

I am quite sure Dota wasn't the first map with the recipes so stop the whole "dota copy" bullshit.
You people are only using Dota to compare your maps with others and do you really think that when you say a "Dota copy" someone thinks a map is bad? On the contrary.

That's a most retarded way to judge a map.

Sad to see we are throwing insults now.
Just because you two think your idea is better doesn't mean Hailfireer's and mine's statements don't mean anything.

You guys sure think you mean more than us, do you?

They do it ...

Oh noez, they like dota!
"They" must be cleansed!
"They" are infidels!

Thanks for putting a label on us.

Dota's playing community is even worst.

Reply:

Jesus Christ, what an ignorant !!!

 

[HailFireer]

They just want to make a map that is coded to perfection and it has a lot of new aspects so they can admire their work, and which they can call a top quality map...

Fact that it's boring and no one plays it means nothing.

Main reason why people make maps is so someone can play them. YES, it should be fun to make it, but its stupid to make something that will only sit in your PC, and one day get deleted because its used up space. And it took a year to make...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

DotA code doesn't make game lagg 9thus doesn't leek to much)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

And once part of code is done, no need to change it if it works.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL^2.

Seriously, I can totally humiliate you here since you obviously make no idea what you are talking about. Just promise me you will leave the code comments and statements to people who actually know code.

so don't answer

There is a lot of people on THW that think Dota is crap and i see no reason for it, but i guess some people can't help it but to express their hatred on what seems to be a point in WC3 that is known by almost all.

I am assuming that by WC3 you mean wc3c.net
Well, as a member of that community as well, I can tell you that wc3c people are nor marked by hate at all. They are perfectionists, they are the best of the best and they know it. I learned all I know there and I had good times there. Your stereotype is wrong my friend.
I do admit that sometimes they get my nerves ... but hey, that's also my fault, after all, I am who I am XD

"Dota copy" means it's bad. Why? I tell you why: because it's not original, it has been already explored and people are tired of it. When I talk about Dota I don't mean the "game per si" I mean the mesh of concepts and ideas that are too much explored.
This is getting incredibly off-topic.

Just because you two think your idea is better doesn't mean Hailfireer's and mine's statements don't mean anything.

In fact I agree. However you must realize we are acting like this because you also think our ideas are worth nothing and you insist on ignoring them without giving us a chance to prove their are worthy of the project.
It is Xarwin's job to decide that and not yours.

Thanks for putting a label on us.

"They" are infidels!
Something like this I suppose? xD

They just want to make a map that is coded to perfection and it has a lot of new aspects so they can admire their work, and which they can call a top quality map...

Hell yes.

Fact that it's boring and no one plays it means nothing.

Well, if it is top quality and original than it means that people will play it. It's that simple. After all, it is top quality. Top quality maps include top quality gameplay, thus they are fun.

Main reason why people make maps is so someone can play them. YES, it should be fun to make it, but its stupid to make something that will only sit in your PC, and one day get deleted because its used up space. And it took a year to make...

So, let me guess, you plan to create a map in 3 weeks that will be ignored after that and you don't care about quality. Well, I see it this way: what I do, I must do good. If I am going to make a crap quality map in 3 weeks, then I am better of wasting my time in something with more quality and in something I can be proud of, or at least I will be wasting my time in making something that's not crap. You happy now?

 

[Deolrin]

They just want to make a map that is coded to perfection and it has a lot of new aspects so they can admire their work, and which they can call a top quality map...

"They"? I'm a modeler, not a coder, jeez.

Dota's playing community is even worst.
Reply:

Quote:
Jesus Christ, what an ignorant !!!

Oh, so DotA's playing community is good? No new player can ever blend in anymore. Believe me I tried, about 3 games, everyone just wanted me out of the game, not fighting on the lames etcetera. Apparently I was more of a hassle to my so-called team than help. I was merely trying to learn the game, to see why everyone says it's so "good". Not to mention that I had to download from the official site because everytime I joined a game and tried to download I was kicked. I did exactly what they said "omg b b b!!!!" or w\e and apparently it didn't help.
The DotA community is a bunch of retards.

I am assuming that by WC3 you mean wc3c.net

No he actually means Warcraft 3. The creation of DotA is apparently a very, very important point of WC3 modding.
Bullshit.

I am quite sure Dota wasn't the first map with the recipes so stop the whole "dota copy" bullshit.
You people are only using Dota to compare your maps with others and do you really think that when you say a "Dota copy" someone thinks a map is bad? On the contrary.

So you want us to copy not only DotA, but more and more and more AoS maps that use a basic recipe system? Recipes are overused. Every second AoS uses a recipe system, if not much much more.

DotA is the only map/mod of WC3 that brings tactics and teamplay to shine at it's peak.

Great, and the so-called "pro players" Totally give a chance to new players to REALIZE that DotA is so 'great'.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Oh my god D: This argument is just an outrage from a simple Socket VS. Recipes Discussion. D:

Guys, can't we just wait for Xarwin's decision?

Also, on this argument:
I don't really care if my Items got Rejected because HB is moving to Socket System. But think about Kingz and Debode. They have made buttload of Items. If it got Rejected over such things, it would be very bad.

 

[Deolrin]

I don't care either. But it's not anyone's problem that we submitted items before we even decided how items work. That's why I recommend Xarwin to get a team to discuss things over MSN or so on a daily basis, eventually coming to decisions and posting those decisions on the forums. I would recommend HailFireer, Flame_Phoenix and Kingz for that team.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

"They"? I'm a modeler, not a coder, jeez.

I believe everyone wants to be proud of the work they do, this includes coders, moders, icon makers and everyone. If you make a work that you hate, you will end up hating yourself for wasting your time on a piece of crap. I am trying to avoid that here. This is what I believe in.

The DotA community is a bunch of retards.

True. And so is HoN's community. In fact, the community is so bad that S2Games (creator of HoN) blames Dota for it's community and is now trying to force measures to prevent players from acting stupid, by adding report systems are other alpha versions of ideas. It is failing so far. Community actions are so bad they even concern S2Games.

No he actually means Warcraft 3. The creation of DotA is apparently a very, very important point of WC3 modding.
Bullshit.

Jesus Christ ... I would understand that the creation of the return bug, or the creation of JNGP are important in the story of wc3 ... but Dota? Seriously?

DotA is the only map/mod of WC3 that brings tactics and teamplay to shine at it's peak.

Totally wrong. Strategy shines at it's peak in the ladder mode because it is way more complex. Even Moyack's project (PoC) has more strategy than Dota will ever have. In fact, even my project (my oldie Castle vs Castle) had more strategy than Dota will ever have.

Guys, can't we just wait for Xarwin's decision?

I agree.

I don't really care if my Items got Rejected because HB is moving to Socket System. But think about Kingz and Debode. They have made buttload of Items. If it got Rejected over such things, it would be very bad.

Dude, for the last time, implementing a gem system will NOT RENDER YOUR WORK USELESS. HB will still be able to USE YOUR DAMN ITEMS. Gem system is good, because it offers you the chance of making your items even better, and specially, more unique!
You will probably need to make a few changes, but you won't need to start from scratch. The item system changed so many times before and no one complained, I don't see what's the problem now. It's not like you'll be forced to use gems for all items.

But it's not anyone's problem that we submitted items before we even decided how items work.

Exactly my point. But enough of this discussion please.

As for the team, I would be massacred. Kingz and HailFire never agree with me. I would need someone to back me up ... maybe you could give me a hand ? XD
Thanks for the suggestion though,I fell flattered.

For a team I would suggest that Xarwin should elect a "boss" on each area. The areas would be: coder, modeller, icon maker, terrainer, hero manager, item manager, ideas manager.
I would suggest the following:
coder: I won't suggest, but if I really have to, I think I vote for watermellon_1234 because he seems to know what systems do and seems to have a nice insight.
modeler: Debode, because he is active and shows concern.
icon maker: Goblin, because I think he is the only one we have.
terrainer: mortar, because he made the alpha terrain of the project.
hero manager: Septimus, because he is active and listens to people.
item manager: HailFier and Kingz, they care about the project and they are devoted to the cause.
ideas manager: m0rbid and Orly_Yarly, because they know the members and seem to have a nice insight on ideas and how to use them.

Anyway, it is not my job to makes teams and assign places, I am just suggesting.

 

[dead-man-walking]

Flame, I'm not in the list? Aww D:

I'm not saying that "omg iten sys change = mai werk rejekted i don care ha ha ha". But if they got removed because HB is only using Sockets, I don't really care because they are one of those "Bathroom Ideas".

So, enough of these "Sockets Vs. Recipes" Bullshit, yes? Lets go on with the wind.

 

[Kingz]

I never mentioned anything about playing DotA online.

Where it shines is when you play with your friends in LAN.
I had my number of matches and it was fun as hell

And yes, sadly today newbies are treated badly by most players online but you can't mark the rest of us as trash just because of a certain number.

Jesus Christ ... I would understand that the creation of the return bug, or the creation of JNGP are important in the story of wc3 ... but Dota? Seriously?

DotA was the reason i opened WE in the first place and found THW.
It does make a important point.

True. And so is HoN's community.

I agree. That is why i play League of Legends now, much better comunity, active forums, friendly people,etc.

Totally wrong. Strategy shines at it's peak in the ladder mode because it is way more complex. Even Moyack's project (PoC) has more strategy than Dota will ever have. In fact, even my project (my oldie Castle vs Castle) had more strategy than Dota will ever have.

I actually meant the amount of strategy and tactics a team must apply in DotA sometimes to win. Sometimes it is easy but you should see one of my replays called "Epic Comeback" and see how a small team who was almost crushed resisted an attack and coordinated fights into our favor. Best game of my life so far.

I don't know when this became personal but the discussion should easen up a little.
We all have different points of view and we are all stubborn it seems so i agree this discussion should be taken off a bit.

Also no hard feelings,this is a discussion, was just a bit agravated by the way you guys labeled us...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Flame, I'm not in the list? Aww D:

It was a quick suggestion. Ofc that making a real list would consider a lot more people.

Also no hard feelings,this is a discussion, was just a bit agravated by the way you guys labeled us...

Something like this, I suppose? xD

 

[dead-man-walking]

In response to the previous discussions:

 

[Tleno]

It was kinda joke, but it would be fun anyways

And if you could make an item called [Daily Peon Newspaper], maybe a cheap thing buyable from some store, that only gives a little Intellect or even nothing, but haves some few fun news and jokes in description, it would be an item dedicated to the whole Daily Peon Social Group here on HIVE (I am member of that. We are about 25 members. It is probably the most active group on HIVE with the most Pictures and longest discussion-threads. We even have a WIKI!! :O)

I would be totally glad if you also made an item called [Amargaard's Pickaxe]. Not buyable, but made from a merge of [Peon's Pickaxe] (Debode made that one) and [Daily Peon Newspaper]. It should not be any super-powerful item, but a special one. Gives some intellect (Like the [Daily Peon Newspaper]) and more damage than the usual [Peon's Pickaxe], gives faster attack (It is enchanted by Time-magic in DP-lore making it faster). Also, you could read about it in the DPWIKI, though that's not important. So... what you say? :]

Indeed, Daily Peon is most active of all of the Hive's social groups, our amount of uploaded pictures is nearing to 10000 already. Plus it's an unique terraining based RP and we are soon going to expand, creating few more similar RPs.
I mean why no, there is no need in those jokes and stuff wroten in those, but some bonus this thing could do, like I say it could give a small intelignece bonus, be consumeable, have three charges and restore mana.

 

[HailFireer]

Flame, don't bother with the list. I have been telling Xarwin for months to form teams and nothing.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Flame, don't bother with the list. I have been telling Xarwin for months to form teams and nothing.

Maybe all you needed was a little help. I am going to try convincing him one way or another. If you want to help, you'll be welcome.

 

[HailFireer]

Sure. Tell him that most agree on that, and it will speed up the making of the map once Xarwin doesn't need to think of everything.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Sure. Tell him that most agree on that, and it will speed up the making of the map once Xarwin doesn't need to think of everything.

Good idea. Maybe we can make an msn reunion? I am available all day.

 

[Xarwin]

Flame_Phoenix informed me about the issues going on.
I am sorry for my late response but my real life took some time away.

At the evening/night I'm back with time.
I will do my best to solve this problem and lead it to the right way.

 

[Wezthal]

Edit: Excuse me, I will move the item submission to the correct thread and hopefully it will be used if your future plans make it possible.

 

[HailFireer]

First, wrong tread. Second, item submissions is currently closed for now due to change of plans.

We appreciate your wish to help and hope that once we decide how items will work, you will submit your ideas.

 

[Amargaard]

Items dedicated to the Daily Peon social group...

Please at least answer our idea this time, instead of just ignoring it, like you have done two times already now. both tleno and I have tried tell you about an item we would love to get dedicated to our HIVE social group "The Daily Peon" - Tell us what needs to be changed to make it approved to the map or why it cannot be included in the map, please...

Why an item dedicated to the Daily Peon?
Because by doing that you also automaticly dedicates the item to 25 members of the HIVE. The only reason I use most of my time on HIVE is because of this social group. It is the most active social group on HIVE with the longest group-threads (more than 18000 replies in the biggest one), the most pictures (More than 1000 pictures at the moment) and we even have our own wiki dedicated to our social group (DPWIKI, Currently having 189 pages). The Daily Peon is a group where members must create an everevolving story with terrain-pictures (Pictures by Peon Reporters from the "Daily Peon" newspaper-company in lore) and interact with the other members' story in a fun, though still serious world based on Azeroth just after the third war -everything is changed since then though. We have begun making other similar RP-groups with same great succesful concept, though we are sure the Daily Peon-one still continues, as long as HIVE exists... Anyways, here is some plans I came up with a while ago...:

Daily Peon Newspaper:
We got several ideas for the item:

1. The [Daily Peon Newspaper]-item should be an either buyable item or loot dropped from creeps or units. Gives some bonus like a small intelligence-increase. Be consumeable, have three charges and restores mana... :]

2. The [Daily Peon Newspaper]-item should be an either buyable item or loot dropped from creeps or units. Gives no benefits, but has a list of other items in description like this below (There should be like 8 item-names in the list):
-Peon's Pickaxe
-Grunt's Axe
-Raider's Sword...
By mixing together the newspaper and one of these items (By either socket-system or recipe-system... I don't care) a new item will be created and delete the other two. An example of a created item could be [Peon's Pickaxe] + [Daily Peon Newspaper] = [Amargaard's Pickaxe]... Get it? :]

3. The [Daily Peon Newspaper]-item should be an either buyable item or loot dropped from creeps or units. It is consumable, 1 charge. When using 1 of 10 or higher random things happens, either a Daily Peon-related item will be given to the user-inventory, or some non-permanent unit-character from Daily Peon will appear to help the user in the fight in X seconds. The effect could be also be negative by spawning some enemy that would attack the user or something... :]

If you like either 2 or 3 I may ask the other members of DP to help me by giving me ideas for the items or units... Also, please tell me what should be changed to make it acceptable :]

By the way
While I thought of these ideas, I also came up with the idea that units spawned from the barracks in the main-bases could drop the basic items in death. When they drop something, the item will dissappear after 30 seconds to not make the map filled with junk-items, though... Just an idea though... :]

 

[HailFireer]

We are still deciding how will items actually work, so I can't really tell ya what to do with items until we decide, but having an idem dedicated to a group seams like a bad idea because they are the least important thing on Hive...

 

[Deolrin]

Please at least answer our idea this time, instead of just ignoring it, like you have done two times already now. both tleno and I have tried tell you about an item we would love to get dedicated to our HIVE social group "The Daily Peon" - Tell us what needs to be changed to make it approved to the map or why it cannot be included in the map, please...

Why an item dedicated to the Daily Peon?
Because by doing that you also automaticly dedicates the item to 25 members of the HIVE. The only reason I use most of my time on HIVE is because of this social group. It is the most active social group on HIVE with the longest group-threads (more than 18000 replies in the biggest one), the most pictures (More than 1000 pictures at the moment) and we even have our own wiki dedicated to our social group (DPWIKI, Currently having 189 pages). The Daily Peon is a group where members must create an everevolving story with terrain-pictures (Pictures by Peon Reporters from the "Daily Peon" newspaper-company in lore) and interact with the other members' story in a fun, though still serious world based on Azeroth just after the third war -everything is changed since then though. We have begun making other similar RP-groups with same great succesful concept, though we are sure the Daily Peon-one still continues, as long as HIVE exists... Anyways, here is some plans I came up with a while ago...:

Daily Peon Newspaper:
We got several ideas for the item:

1. The [Daily Peon Newspaper]-item should be an either buyable item or loot dropped from creeps or units. Gives some bonus like a small intelligence-increase. Be consumeable, have three charges and restores mana... :]

2. The [Daily Peon Newspaper]-item should be an either buyable item or loot dropped from creeps or units. Gives no benefits, but has a list of other items in description like this below (There should be like 8 item-names in the list):
-Peon's Pickaxe
-Grunt's Axe
-Raider's Sword...
By mixing together the newspaper and one of these items (By either socket-system or recipe-system... I don't care) a new item will be created and delete the other two. An example of a created item could be [Peon's Pickaxe] + [Daily Peon Newspaper] = [Amargaard's Pickaxe]... Get it? :]

3. The [Daily Peon Newspaper]-item should be an either buyable item or loot dropped from creeps or units. It is consumable, 1 charge. When using 1 of 10 or higher random things happens, either a Daily Peon-related item will be given to the user-inventory, or some non-permanent unit-character from Daily Peon will appear to help the user in the fight in X seconds. The effect could be also be negative by spawning some enemy that would attack the user or something... :]

If you like either 2 or 3 I may ask the other members of DP to help me by giving me ideas for the items or units... Also, please tell me what should be changed to make it acceptable :]

By the way
While I thought of these ideas, I also came up with the idea that units spawned from the barracks in the main-bases could drop the basic items in death. When they drop something, the item will dissappear after 30 seconds to not make the map filled with junk-items, though... Just an idea though... :]

How about YOU read this thread and others first? The way items work was not decided yet, and 'Intelligence' doesn't exists in Hive's Battlefield. Learn to read long threads.

By mixing together the newspaper and one of these items (By either socket-system or recipe-system... I don't care) a new item will be created and delete the other two. An example of a created item could be [Peon's Pickaxe] + [Daily Peon Newspaper] = [Amargaard's Pickaxe]... Get it? :]

The part where you said "by either socket-system or recipe-system" made me laugh. This IS the recipe system. Socket system is when you can only buy a few basic items and put other items 'inside' them to upgrade them. So there is NO merging if they go for sockets.

Besides, the Daily Peon group has a bad reputation outside the group itself, no offense. Just look at Misha's "Frost Archon" description.

 

[Amargaard]

We are still deciding how will items actually work, so I can't really tell ya what to do with items until we decide, but having an idem dedicated to a group seams like a bad idea because they are the least important thing on Hive...

Well, to me the group means everything. To be accepted as a group-member it was required that I should know the Daily Peon-lore pretty well, before making pics and become part of the roleplay, so I begun reading all the pics and comments (There was about 600 pictures back then), by doing that I got a special love for Daily Peon and even though I'm unable to make pics at the momment I still hang around the group. And I guess instead of dedicating an item to just me, a Daily Peon-item would mean something to all of us members, not only me

How about YOU read this thread and others first? The way items work was not decided yet, and 'Intelligence' doesn't exists in Hive's Battlefield. Learn to read long threads.

I'm sorry... But please don't start a new discussion - I was just suggesting it... :-/

The part where you said "by either socket-system or recipe-system" made me laugh. This IS the recipe system. Socket system is when you can only buy a few basic items and put other items 'inside' them to upgrade them. So there is NO merging if they go for sockets.

Besides, the Daily Peon group has a bad reputation outside the group itself, no offense. Just look at Misha's "Frost Archon" description.

Well, I have never heard of the socket-system before and I'm no good mapper. But I knew you discussed it before, so I didn't want to be against any of your oppinions in that... ;]

Misha has a bad reputation inside our group. Even though he's rarely visiting the group. I don't know Misha that well, but I know he has wrote negative comments to almost all members of the group (Not me included though), and in my opinnion, all members of the group are nice guys, so I think it's a bit strange, Misha wanted to mock them... Could you give me a link to that modelthingie - I want to see what he had written?? :-/

 

[HailFireer]

Socket system has been discussed for like last 10 pages or so. So you had to read if you wanted to submit (not to mention you submitted in the wrong tread).

As for the guys there, ye they are nice, I was in the group put since I was to lazy to make stuff, I left.

I personally don't like it that much. But I think that we could add a no-cost newspaper item, which has some Easter Egg in it or so. But Xarwin will have to agree. But nothing can be done for now.


And heres the link http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/frost-archon-172140/?prev=d%3Dlist%26r%3D20%26u%3Dmisha

 

[dead-man-walking]

Misha has a bad reputation inside our group. Even though he's rarely visiting the group. I don't know Misha that well, but I know he has wrote negative comments to almost all members of the group (Not me included though), and in my opinnion, all members of the group are nice guys, so I think it's a bit strange, Misha wanted to mock them... Could you give me a link to that modelthingie - I want to see what he had written?? :-/

I think it's caused by Evillizard ticking him up. Poor Misha.

He has left the group two times. He actually had no bad reputation. He got ticked off.

A newspaper easter egg would be nice.

 

[Deolrin]

Misha has a bad reputation inside our group. Even though he's rarely visiting the group. I don't know Misha that well, but I know he has wrote negative comments to almost all members of the group (Not me included though), and in my opinnion, all members of the group are nice guys, so I think it's a bit strange, Misha wanted to mock them... Could you give me a link to that modelthingie - I want to see what he had written?? :-/

Dunno. Maybe it's because people find your group very very silly(or more like... Retarded). I mean for example, one of you guys wrote something along the lines of "...His two brothers grown into a grunt and a shaman, but he decided to stay a peon..." - I mean what the fuck? Orcs are not fucking Pokemon, they don't hatch as peons and evolve into other units... Peons are orcs with a low rank within society, e.g. they are too weak to be warriors or something like that, so they are employed or even enslaved to preform manual labor.

 

[VeljkoM]

I thought this was item discussion thread not daily peon thread?
But if I could comment on that silly thing. "Grown" isn't literal and one that decided to stay peon was probably weak so he didn't have choice.

Now if that is over maybe to return to actual item system that will be used? Oh and I think that newspaper item isn't really that important.

 

[Amargaard]

Maybe not to you, but it means a lot to me getting an item dedicated to our group...

 

[HailFireer]

OK, big news. Xarwin thinks that sockets and recipes are both good ideas, and he thinks both are a great idea. I got an idea how to mix them up both, without making one obsolete (to much anyway). Busy now post it latter. Now, I want you to post arguments why should any of thos be included.


As for the newspaper, Xarwin doesn't like it. And most of us here. Sorry.

 

[dead-man-walking]

OK, big news. Xarwin thinks that sockets and recipes are both good ideas, and he thinks both are a great idea. I got an idea how to mix them up both, without making one obsolete (to much anyway). Busy now post it latter. Now, I want you to post arguments why should any of thos be included.

Good to hear that nothing will be wasted.

 

[Amargaard]

As for the newspaper, Xarwin doesn't like it. And most of us here. Sorry.

Well since it is your map and project I will not complain and I have no rights of having anything dedicated to my beloved group. But I must admit that I lost interrest in the map after our last try got refused, not because I did not get the item dedicated as I have wished, but because I no longer believe it to be a HIVE community-map...

Well, continue the project and I hope you reach a good result. I wish you good luck...

 

[HailFireer]

This is a Hive community map, with people in it. Groups are the least important part of hive, meant only for fun, and occasional project group.


As for my idea about items.

First idea:
First we have a bunch of basic items. All of them can be socketed or used for a recipe. If an item is socketed it can no longer be used for a recipe (I would restrain my self for asking a special socketed item for a recipe. Would be to much to ask).
After that player can chose how he wants to upgrade them. But I suggest that recipes keep a few special effects (like chance to ignore armor, etc.) so recipe items don't become obsolete.

As for socketed items, you will have a bunch of sockets that add this and that, and are bought in a shop. But it would be nice to add that when you kill an enemy hero, that you get a more powerful socket that can be used. It will have a random effect to keep it balanced (player cant' chose what effect will it do).

I think that recipes shouldn't be socketable, but not sure.

Second idea:
First you get basic items and you sue em to create recipes. Then when you get a recipe item you can use socket to increase its power, or add a new effect. In case that a recipe item is needed for a higher recipe item, you can only use a non socketed item.
Idea about getting a stronger socket when you kill an enemy hero still stands.
Now when a player doesn't need an item any more, he can sell it for some price, or he can sell it for half that price and have a chance to get a socket of random strength for each non-active effect item has. This is a way to get some socket effects that can not be bought normally.

I like the second idea better for several reasons:
1) It doesn't' separate them in to 2 different treas, making it less hard for a player.
2) Its easier to balance, since if we have 2 trees, we have to make them both the same, so one is not obsolete.
3) It solves the problem Flame_Phoenix mentions of items getting old and having to sell them in a better way. 1st idea is not so good at that part. This way if you buy a weaker item it can be socketed and be as strong as a stronger item without sockets. But if stronger item is socketed you will have to get a better item. That way we make players try and harder to get more gold.



These ideas are subject able to changes, but they show the main idea.
I would like you to vote on them.
You can also submit your idea as well, but please think them tro.

 

[Amargaard]

This is a Hive community map, with people in it. Groups are the least important part of hive, meant only for fun, and occasional project group.

Well, you are right in them meant only for fun, though I disagree with them being unimportant ... But I don't wanna discuss this anymore, everyone in here have their own unique oppinion of Social Groups and each oppinion should be accepted, and clearly I have to accept that they don't mean much to you guys while writing in your threads... so I will :]

Anyways how many items are you planning to have in the map? Included "upgraded" items...

I vote for second Idea, if I'm allowed to :]

 

[HailFireer]

Anyone can vote, we need opinions of as many people as possible.

As for item number, I don't know. But, I'm hoping we'll have around 80-90 items, sockets and consumables not included. Of course if we come up with good ideas we can go over that. I am hoping that 20-25 of thos items will be basic.


And also sockets could be called Rep. Not reputation, just Rep.

 

[Tleno]

social groups are part of Hive too... but if you think about it, I'd rather make an item related to forums or resource section...
Wait why consumeables don't count? You know, I kinda like had a half-consumeable, half-just itme idea long time ago for other mpa, there it is:
I call this item just a Lifesaver. Technically it's just an item with passive ability to increase you stats, but if you use it, it will restore all the hp and mana, recharges ability cooldowns and removes all buffs. Yes, it's a costly late game stage stats increasing item that if needed can be used once to save you from death. The bad side? Each player can but it once per game.

 

[HailFireer]

I didn't say that there wont be any consumables in the game, I just separated them from the count of other items, since they have a way different role. And your suggestion is nice, and will probably be added, but it is still counted as consumables.

 

[VeljkoM]

Those would be Cooldown items kinda more then consumable.

 

[Tleno]

No, mine is consumeable, some kind of ultimate, one-time consumeable that also gives you a small stats bonus to compensate the space it takes.

 

[VeljkoM]

Well there should be also Cooldown item (that drops on death for balance maybe).