Dragon's Lair

[Figglewig]

The map looks really cool and is truly trying to utilize the new map making functionality of having a variety of hill types in the map. I appreciate the random dragon spawns, and how you are able to differentiate the two players sides. Plus the Dragon Ruins are a nice touch. It would certainly be a fun map to play on with friends.

However, for the potential to be a competitive map, I think there are some needed improvements:
1) Treelines: Tree placement would need to be improved across the whole map, to eliminate wisp hiding spots. (Where a wisp can attach to a tree, but not be able to be attacked) This can be fixed by alternating the trees, so that you have a full grid then the next row would be on the half grid. You essentially want to avoid trees lining up with a tree in the back corner, like an "L" shape.

2) Creep Camp/Building positions: There are too many camps just outside the starting location, and all of which are unopposed by the opponent. Essentially each player is getting 5 creep camps for free, plus an extra Goldmine, Mercenary camp, and to a lesser extant the Goblin Laboratory. The Creep camps on the Goldmines should also, have some members not be in camp status, but in normal status. This is to prevent players from building too close to the goldmine.

3) Pathing: There are many creep camps that are overly exposed and can be bumped into by mistake. (Goblin Laboratory, Goblin Merchant, Crabs Camp outside Goblin Merchant, Dragon Goldmine, Dragon Camp above the Tavern, and to a lesser extant the Hydra Hatchling camp outside the destructible rocks)

4) Dragon Roost: The unfortunate state of affairs for the Dragon Roost, is it is too powerful for a 1v1 match. Until Blizzard is able to address this, it should be avoided. Now I can suggest that you utilize another building that looks like a Dragon's Roost, but isn't. There is a Dragon Roost building in the orc campaign, that looks like it, but doesn't have the same functionality.

Now I want to reiterate that the map is visually really cool and has a fun theme/aesthetic, but the map would need improvements if you were looking for more than just a fun match with friends.

I thought I rated this map as a 3. I don't know if that can be fixed/changed?

 

[FrFrancuz]

The map looks really cool and is truly trying to utilize the new map making functionality of having a variety of hill types in the map. I appreciate the random dragon spawns, and how you are able to differentiate the two players sides. Plus the Dragon Ruins are a nice touch. It would certainly be a fun map to play on with friends.

However, for the potential to be a competitive map, I think there are some needed improvements:
1) Treelines: Tree placement would need to be improved across the whole map, to eliminate wisp hiding spots. (Where a wisp can attach to a tree, but not be able to be attacked) This can be fixed by alternating the trees, so that you have a full grid then the next row would be on the half grid. You essentially want to avoid trees lining up with a tree in the back corner, like an "L" shape.

2) Creep Camp/Building positions: There are too many camps just outside the starting location, and all of which are unopposed by the opponent. Essentially each player is getting 5 creep camps for free, plus an extra Goldmine, Mercenary camp, and to a lesser extant the Goblin Laboratory. The Creep camps on the Goldmines should also, have some members not be in camp status, but in normal status. This is to prevent players from building too close to the goldmine.

3) Pathing: There are many creep camps that are overly exposed and can be bumped into by mistake. (Goblin Laboratory, Goblin Merchant, Crabs Camp outside Goblin Merchant, Dragon Goldmine, Dragon Camp above the Tavern, and to a lesser extant the Hydra Hatchling camp outside the destructible rocks)

4) Dragon Roost: The unfortunate state of affairs for the Dragon Roost, is it is too powerful for a 1v1 match. Until Blizzard is able to address this, it should be avoided. Now I can suggest that you utilize another building that looks like a Dragon's Roost, but isn't. There is a Dragon Roost building in the orc campaign, that looks like it, but doesn't have the same functionality.

Thank you for pointing out the pathing issues and the tree lines — I will fix those.
As for the creeps near the bases, the building positions, and the Dragon Roost, I am not trying to make maps by copying others or forcing myself into some standard created by a small group of people and expecting everyone to follow it. Maps should be unique, with their own special touch, their own strengths and weaknesses, and their own unique features.
Map makers who push strict standards now are basically doing the same thing as painting the same flower over and over again, just in different colors. It is time to move beyond those standards. Maps should help players grow and adapt, not force them into a narrow standard while hiding behind the argument of balance.
And about the Dragon Roost — I will keep it. If Blizzard has not forbidden its use on 1v1 maps, then that means it is allowed to be used.

 

[patriotdvora]

Cool map, love having a safe expo!

 

[Noskonwood]

I've enjoyed to play on this map because it's something fresh in warcraft

 

[Figglewig]

Sounds good, and I am by no means intending you to conform to any set standard. You can do what you want, it is your map, not mine or anyone else's. I was wanting to draw your attention to potential issues, like the pathing and tree lines, because players hate having a creep camp accidentally aggro because their rallied units pulling it. Which I am glad to see you have partially taken care of so far.

As for pushing a set standard, I certainly don't follow all of the norms, and try to push for different creeps, tile sets and map layouts. There is a whole host of map building options that don't see much of any use, which is unfortunate. So, be bold and push new ideas. The early goldmine has potential to be good, and could promote a longer match if both sides play into it.

That being said though, you should be aware of potential game breaking issues like the Dragon Roost for example; will be nearly game deciding on who gets the lvl 10 Dragon at the 15min 20sec mark and the lvl 6 Drake can prove to also be problematic at the 7min 20 sec mark. Which if that is what you want? Then go for it! It will add a rush to the game and make it a battle for the Dragon's Roost. Which I believe is part of the maps intent. The players who become more familiar with the map, should be prepared for these timings and hopefully not get steam rolled by either dragon.

The creep camps outside the base, is also fine, but it will result in a hero being 5xp away from level 3 after clearing those 3 creep camps and gives you an "extra barracks" of some of the strongest mercenaries in the game (Assassin at 3min 40sec and Kobold Geomancer at 7min 20sec). Which again is also ok, but it is also important to keep these effects in consideration.

Again to keep it clear, I am by no means trying to force some strict standard over you and your map(s). I want your map to be both successful and full of life/character.

 

[deepstrasz]

Starting base build space is reduced because of the mill's wheat field and risking to get attacked by the three camps nearby.
IMO the expansion mine is too close and militia, ancients and perhaps even graveyard rod of necromancy strategies could get them faster.
Some paths are narrow especially when critters get in the way.
Kudos for lots of camps and neat different halves of terrain. There's some cliff texture bugs though in the north.
Approved.

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