WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

[Bugz]

When they are finished.

 

[Fingolfin]

How much work does this map really need? It looks finished with all the models and soo on.
when can we expect this map to be ready for download and playable for everyone?

Play one session with us and you will regret that statement.
There are lots of game-breaking bugs that have to be fixed, and lots of information and UI-structure that has to be added. Right now, it is kinda hard for new players to know what to do, and they will be put right into the action the minute the game starts. I want to add some basic info for each player, like the classic "this is your nation and this is what you should do"-text, a short opening cinematic (could just be some intro music on a black screen with some text coming up etc).

EDIT: i wouldn't really mean "lots" - it just has to be added since there is none now.

Model-wise though, i agree that we are pretty much finished, i only have three models that are still missing on my list, and those are the graf zeppelin (carrier), Yak-9 (soviet interceptor) and the american cruiser (which will be based on the USS Indianapolis - the cruiser that transported the Little Boy to Tinian). Also, Vuorma has to finish the He 111 and the italian tank, then we're done!

@xRiotZx: I'd say that frankly, you have a history of acting like an arrogant assface. I haven't seen any of that for quite some time though and i appreciate the kind of constructive activity you ahve been showing lately, and that is what i was reffering to.

 

[Bugz]

Funny thing is you failed and sended me the normal version xd, and yes many bugz

 

[vipdrling]

Very beautiful!

 

[Svenska_0rmen]

Well, i hope it will be playable in 3 weeks...?
Tho to the models, they look.. bloody amazing. How can you even fit all the models in the map??

 

[Fingolfin]

Well, i barely can, though the trick is that i use 256x256 textures (most high-size models on this site have larger texture sizes), and most of the tanks, well... they are really jsut boxes with some garnish on them, when you think of it. Also, the MPQ archives that maps consist of are very good at compressing the models, so you end up only increasing the map size by about 50% of the models actual size when you import it.

Map is at 7.5mb now though, so we are running out of space formore models (just in time).

And yeah, three weeks sound reasonable, we will try to have open beta released by then.

 

[clockwork2]

sounds reasonable enough,it's good enough as is.

 

[RiotZ]

@xRiotZx: I'd say that frankly, you have a history of acting like an arrogant assface. I haven't seen any of that for quite some time though and i appreciate the kind of constructive activity you ahve been showing lately, and that is what i was reffering to.

Woah, assface lol. I've never been called that before.

Back On-Topic: Have you made a model for the V-2 Rocket yet? Is it coming soon?

 

[Gausslander]

Back On-Topic: Have you made a model for the V-2 Rocket yet? Is it coming soon?

Listen assface, V-2 is way overpowered. If Germany gets the V-2, than the US should get access to nukes.

 

[RiotZ]

Listen ass-face, V-2 is way overpowered. If Germany gets the V-2, than the US should get access to nukes.

Fingolfin already said they would have V-2s. Ass-face.

And all nations have access to nukes.

 

[Gausslander]

Well that's just historically inaccurate. Assface.

 

[RiotZ]

Well that's just historically inaccurate. Assface.

Historically accurate and balanced are different you know.

 

[Falafelkorv]

Hey Fing, will you release the models as of the Open Beta? Would love to use them

 

[RiotZ]

Congratulations Fingolfin you have successfully created a new word.

Ass-face

 

[Carter_117]

How is it historically inaccurate if all countries have nukes? most of the Major powers had a nuclear project at some point, Germans more secretive cause Hitler regarded it as a Jewish Science, but they succeeded in creating a dirty bomb I believe.

Also will you be adding some other secret research? like the Japanese bio-warfare research and etc.

Also if you need extra testers id be happy to help ^.^

 

[.VTZ.]

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, it seems very squishy vs flak batteryes

 

[RiotZ]

How is it historically inaccurate if all countries have nukes? most of the Major powers had a nuclear project at some point, Germans more secretive cause Hitler regarded it as a Jewish Science, but they succeeded in creating a dirty bomb I believe.

Also will you be adding some other secret research? like the Japanese bio-warfare research and etc.

Also if you need extra testers id be happy to help ^.^

The first and only country with a nuclear weapon during World War II was the United States of America, hence the inaccuracy... The other countries didn't acquire nukes until quite some time later. I believe Russia became a nuclear super power in 1953, correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Hugomath]

In case some of you didn't know, they're planning to make this map free to for players to do what they want. So, if Italy(for example) wants to research nukes in the game, they can. They would be quite vulnerable to attacks though.

 

[Falafelkorv]

Didnt the germans nuclear research stuff get blown up by the finns? Dont know it its just nonsense but thats what ive heard atleast.

 

[Fingolfin]

Yeah well, i am pretty sure the germans were researching nukes, even though they got their ass kicked before they could ever put it into serious action.

@VTZ: Yeah, the rear turret is a really cool idea
Kinda cool how they can fly with half their wing blown off though, LOL!

As of all the balance questions: i wanted to keep a kind of melee-aspect of this game where players fight on somewhat equal terms - surely, the factions have different focuses which dictate how you play them, but it feels kinda lame that some players would be robbed of several critical gameplay elements to obey historical accuracy.

Think of it as this; as i have explained the nuke research system so far, it is based on diverting economy and factories to the development rendering you somewhat weakened in the process. It is natural that the US would be among the first to achieve this, since they have a lot of cities and factories naturally secured and well-defended on their continent, aswell as possible conquerings they might have had during the game. If some other country has reached the role of a leading super power at this point, they will surely have the kind of economic strength required to research nukes before them - just as Germany might have been if they had not been on the retreat by then.

 

[.VTZ.]

Yeah well, i am pretty sure the germans were researching nukes, even though they got their ass kicked before they could ever put it into serious action.

@VTZ: Yeah, the rear turret is a really cool idea
Kinda cool how they can fly with half their wing blown off though, LOL!

As of all the balance questions: i wanted to keep a kind of melee-aspect of this game where players fight on somewhat equal terms - surely, the factions have different focuses which dictate how you play them, but it feels kinda lame that some players would be robbed of several critical gameplay elements to obey historical accuracy.

Think of it as this; as i have explained the nuke research system so far, it is based on diverting economy and factories to the development rendering you somewhat weakened in the process. It is natural that the US would be among the first to achieve this, since they have a lot of cities and factories naturally secured and well-defended on their continent, aswell as possible conquerings they might have had during the game. If some other country has reached the role of a leading super power at this point, they will surely have the kind of economic strength required to research nukes before them - just as Germany might have been if they had not been on the retreat by then.

i lold so hard when i saw that wing too

 

[RiotZ]

Yeah well, i am pretty sure the germans were researching nukes, even though they got their ass kicked before they could ever put it into serious action.

@VTZ: Yeah, the rear turret is a really cool idea
Kinda cool how they can fly with half their wing blown off though, LOL!

As of all the balance questions: i wanted to keep a kind of melee-aspect of this game where players fight on somewhat equal terms - surely, the factions have different focuses which dictate how you play them, but it feels kinda lame that some players would be robbed of several critical gameplay elements to obey historical accuracy.

Think of it as this; as i have explained the nuke research system so far, it is based on diverting economy and factories to the development rendering you somewhat weakened in the process. It is natural that the US would be among the first to achieve this, since they have a lot of cities and factories naturally secured and well-defended on their continent, aswell as possible conquerings they might have had during the game. If some other country has reached the role of a leading super power at this point, they will surely have the kind of economic strength required to research nukes before them - just as Germany might have been if they had not been on the retreat by then.

Nazi Germany is responsible for so many technologies we use today, and didn't discover, or properly begin using until after World War II. Albert Einstein was a German-born scientist, without him the nuclear weapon would not exist, it was his theory of relativity upon which the nuclear weapon was created.

E = Mc2 (E = Energy) (M = Mass of Your Object) (c2 = The speed of light squared (squared aka times itself))

 

[clockwork2]

and he was a plot device for the popular red alert series!also according to wiki didn't the germens have a jet bomber?and v2 rockets!

 

[RiotZ]

and he was a plot device for the popular red alert series!also according to wiki didn't the germens have a jet bomber?and v2 rockets!

Yes they did. They invented the first jet engine plane, and the first missile capable of sub-orbital flight, (the V-2 missile).

 

[WOWWARS]

wif is so perfect of a ww2 game

 

[Carter_117]

The first and only country with a nuclear weapon during World War II was the United States of America

Yes thats true but im just saying the other countries did have the research, USA just beat them cause the Axis powers were needing all resources to try and hold their boarders (among other things) and the rest of Allies I assume were either to banged up to do much about their research or just left it to the Americans.

And alot of Modern day tech comes from the Nazis... imagine what we could have found if they didnt destroy some/most of it... going off-topic but still interesting to think about

 

[RiotZ]

Yes thats true but im just saying the other countries did have the research, USA just beat them cause the Axis powers were needing all resources to try and hold their boarders (among other things) and the rest of Allies I assume were either to banged up to do much about their research or just left it to the Americans.

And alot of Modern day tech comes from the Nazis... imagine what we could have found if they didnt destroy some/most of it... going off-topic but still interesting to think about

This isn't off-topic it pertains to gameplay. The Nazis were the only other country capable of creating a nuclear weapon according to documented history. We stole the idea from them in hopes of beating them to it, like I said, Albert Einstein, German scientist.

 

[M0rbid]

Albert Einstein is not a good example at all. Basically because he is not directly connected to the creation of the nuclear bomb, but also because he did not cooperate with Nazi Germany during the Second World War, but left Germany when Hitler got the power in 1933 and did not come back to Germany in that whole time of Nationalsocialism.
On the contrary, Albert Einstein warned the US Government, that the Germans could look to create a nuclear weapon.
He himself was a clear supporter of not using nuclear weapons.

Regarding the gameplay use of a nuclear weapon, I doubt that it does make a lot of sense when representing it realistic. Because it just cannot work out in a strategy map. Because of that, I personally would just do it without the nuclear bombs at all.

 

[RiotZ]

Albert Einstein is not a good example at all. Basically because he is not directly connected to the creation of the nuclear bomb, but also because he did not cooperate with Nazi Germany during the Second World War, but left Germany when Hitler got the power in 1933 and did not come back to Germany in that whole time of Nationalsocialism.
On the contrary, Albert Einstein warned the US Government, that the Germans could look to create a nuclear weapon.
He himself was a clear supporter of not using nuclear weapons.

Regarding the gameplay use of a nuclear weapon, I doubt that it does make a lot of sense when representing it realistic. Because it just cannot work out in a strategy map. Because of that, I personally would just do it without the nuclear bombs at all.

Without the theory of relativity the nuclear weapon would not exist. You are missing the point, the point is that Nazi Germany had created every modern piece of technology before any other country.

This should clear up what I am saying... Click.
If you are too lazy to read it, it states that matter can be turned into energy, small amounts of matter are equivalent to large amounts of energy. This is the basis of the nuclear weapon, a firing mechanism launches an object at another piece of matter the collision creates a conversion, I'm not a nuclear physicist so I don't know exactly how it works.

 

[M0rbid]

You are generalizing and look to inaccurate at it, that is something that you cannot do about history.
The Theory of relativity is not in anyway connected to Nazi Germany.
Apart from that, this theory might be base for further investigation, but it is NOT an instruction on how to build an nuclear weapon.
The German Government during the Second World War was very Technology-orientated but not in all topics the world-wide leading country, that is just unprecise.

But I doubt it is productive to continue this talk here.
Please consider to look at history more detailed in future, because that his how history has to be dealt with. Generalisation is something you do not want to do when talking about history.

Still I think my opinion on the gameplay issue is valid aswell.

 

[Fingolfin]

I think it is misleading to dub Germany as technically superior to all other countries of it's time. Surely, they were ahead in military tactics, but even though lots of people praise the Stuka , V2 and the Tiger/Panther for being technical marvels of their time (which they weren't), a lot of countries had other ingenious inventions going on at the same time. The Japanese Zero had the highest climb and turn rate of all fighters in the world for the entire war, and the british did infact invent their jet engine independent of the germans, although their design was slightly inferior and the principle is not the one used today. Also, soviet tanks were always superior to the german equivalents except for the Tiger and Panther tanks, the latter of which was only successful because it had copied crucial elements from the T34. The reason for the high soviet death counts were merely poor training and organization, all of their equipment was infact top standard.

Finally, the a-bomb was invented by Oppenheimer, who was born american.

 

[RiotZ]

I think it is misleading to dub Germany as technically superior to all other countries of it's time. Surely, they were ahead in military tactics, but even though lots of people praise the Stuka , V2 and the Tiger/Panther for being technical marvels of their time (which they weren't), a lot of countries had other ingenious inventions going on at the same time. The Japanese Zero had the highest climb and turn rate of all fighters in the world for the entire war, and the british did infact invent their jet engine independent of the germans, although their design was slightly inferior and the principle is not the one used today. Also, soviet tanks were always superior to the german equivalents except for the Tiger and Panther tanks, the latter of which was only successful because it had copied crucial elements from the T34. The reason for the high soviet death counts were merely poor training and organization, all of their equipment was infact top standard.

Finally, the a-bomb was invented by Oppenheimer, who was born american.

Germany had a clear advantage, where I must bluntly disagree is military tactics. The leaders of Germany made a very stupid and arrogant decision to attempt to fight several countries on three fronts.

 

[Fingolfin]

I was refering to the tactic in battle, such as using a combination of dive bombers and tank spearheads with infantry huddled up behind to break through enemy defenses, and the blitzkrieg tactic in general. (as opposed to the early-war russian and japanese tactic of merely storming everything straight at them)

 

[RiotZ]

I was refering to the tactic in battle, such as using a combination of dive bombers and tank spearheads with infantry huddled up behind to break through enemy defenses, and the blitzkrieg tactic in general. (as opposed to the early-war russian and japanese tactic of merely storming everything straight at them)

I can't argue with that.

Will the Tsar Bomba be available for production?

 

[Fingolfin]

No.

As far as the whole nuclear bomb discussion goes; my original intention was to use nuclear ballistic missiles rather than having them dropped from planes, since that would be more easy to spot and avoid than a plane. I could say though, that this is would be a bit outside of the scope of WW2 and would rather be associated to the cold war (which was my intention though). There would be a lot of information regarding theese middiles - you would perhaps even be informed about it's rough direction or in any case you would be able to guess it's target far before it reaches it, so it would be more of a GTFO weapon, that you would use against massed static defenses or to seal off portions of the map (players would be more reluctant to staying in theese areas due to radiation). There would ofcourse also be means to stop nukes while they are in the air, and that is where we suggested that jet planes - if they were included - would be the only ones capable of taking them down, much like they did with V2 rockets in the war. Perhaps other units would be able to hit them too but with limited effect.

Anyways, nukes will not be in open beta and only, if ever, in the final version.

 

[RiotZ]

No.

As far as the whole nuclear bomb discussion goes; my original intention was to use nuclear ballistic missiles rather than having them dropped from planes, since that would be more easy to spot and avoid than a plane. I could say though, that this is would be a bit outside of the scope of WW2 and would rather be associated to the cold war (which was my intention though). There would be a lot of information regarding theese middiles - you would perhaps even be informed about it's rough direction or in any case you would be able to guess it's target far before it reaches it, so it would be more of a GTFO weapon, that you would use against massed static defenses or to seal off portions of the map (players would be more reluctant to staying in theese areas due to radiation). There would ofcourse also be means to stop nukes while they are in the air, and that is where we suggested that jet planes - if they were included - would be the only ones capable of taking them down, much like they did with V2 rockets in the war. Perhaps other units would be able to hit them too but with limited effect.

Anyways, nukes will not be in open beta and only, if ever, in the final version.

D:

You said Jet Fighters were used to shoot down V-2's, Germany was the only nation with those units at the time, weren't they?

 

[Fingolfin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor

 

[albertroy]

Hmm.. anyway I could help you in making this project?? It looks real good.. Btw Does the planes use the feature to "auto-bomb" when you pass an enemy unit.. there was a game that planes automatically drop bombs and shoot using the turrets on it.. forgot the name of that game, oh and the tanks use same feature, the tanks and planes dont have the attack button. same with other AA batteries..

 

[Fingolfin]

Whenever you launch a plane, it will be ordered to drop at the target location, but if you order them to move somewhere before they reach there, you will have to order them to drop manually. Dive bombers will automatically fire at anything that comes close to them though.

If you re a good player, perhaps you can test with us - we are only going to do two or three more tests before we release, and we want to do this on full house with both theatres.

 

[Kanadaj]

If I say I'm not into WW2 games it's not even close to what I feel, but when I saw this map I felt an urgent need to play on it LoL

 

[RiotZ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor

I did not know this.

 

[albertroy]

Hmm, I usually look at the details of the game.. I got a couple of friends that could test it with me , so I could try it with all slots filled. ^^

 

[Fingolfin]

I meant test with us, the beta team. Testing with friends is something you can do during open beta.

 

[Hugomath]

So, Gloster Meteor and ME-262 as the only jets in game?

 

[albertroy]

so when will the open beta be released???

 

[PastTime]

When it's released.

Until the open beta, they are in need of people for BNet I suppose, they want to test the new features and bugfixes so the open beta won't suprise people with some mad bugs.

Most of people that I know, said that you'll never make it to the end, I was a bit confused at the beginning but it turns out that you can change Warcraft into another game with working hard and non giving up.

Perhaps it's not a good time to ask for such things but:
When you'll finish this project, will you do anything else? I would totally love to see somekind of ORPG made by you guys.

 

[Fingolfin]

I can tell that i have several other projects, some of them even more ambitious than this one, that i am working on. It will be a couple of skirmish maps and maybe a campaign.

I have now started working on the trading system, one of three last important features i want to have included before open beta (the other being the starting dialog and the research system), and i think it could turn out nice. I could use some help though: i have a function in which i am going to sort players based on their "trade power", i.e. the ammount of ports they have. I want them to be sorted in a list where the first index is the player with the most ports and so on, so if anyone knows how to make this, please tell me.

@Hugomath: as of now, there are no jets in the game and i am not 100% sure that we will have room for any either. But we will see.

 

[PastTime]

I think I've seen such system of "score" in (that's ridiculous), "X Hero Siege", it works like that :
Player who has highest count of killed creeps gets to the top of score board. I don't know how to make it though, not sure if there's an unprotected version of this one but I hope you'll find my answer helpfull.

 

[RiotZ]

I can tell that i have several other projects, some of them even more ambitious than this one, that i am working on. It will be a couple of skirmish maps and maybe a campaign.

I have now started working on the trading system, one of three last important features i want to have included before open beta (the other being the starting dialog and the research system), and i think it could turn out nice. I could use some help though: i have a function in which i am going to sort players based on their "trade power", i.e. the ammount of ports they have. I want them to be sorted in a list where the first index is the player with the most ports and so on, so if anyone knows how to make this, please tell me.

@Hugomath: as of now, there are no jets in the game and i am not 100% sure that we will have room for any either. But we will see.

You use a hidden leaderboard to sort players based on value.

Create a leaderboard, setup your amount of players, and their values. Then hide it, unless of course, you want it to be visible, this is really the only way of balancing players based on values, though I'm sure there are more complicated ways.

If you need me to explain further, I can give a snippet of GUI.

 

[Fingolfin]

Uhm.. that just seems very bulky. All i want is a function that i can call, where i give "who has x most docks?" where x can be 1st, 3rd, and so on, and i return a player.

This is how you get the player with most docks, that is pretty simple:

you make a loop that exits when index > number of allies. then you have two variables, one integer called "max" and one player called "p". you start by settyng "p" as ally number 1 (the one with the lowest player number, like player 1, if he is an ally) and "max" as the number of ports i have (which i have stored in an array variable called NumPorts[]). every loop, you increase index by 1 and check if NumPorts > max. If it is, i set max to NumPorts, and p to Player(i). When the loop finishes i will recieve the top player.

Now, i just want this code to stack them by order in an array p[], so that i can return the position i want.

By the way, you can except to see the Portland-class Cruiser up soon!!