WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

[Vuormalainen]

How about adding a Prisoner Of War command, where if another player is about to conquer a country, the country can either choose to Surrender, Have A Final Stand or forced to ally with the enemy with some taxes paid and such.

PS: I love your models

The option is already there. Lets say Soviet is threatening Finland to attack them if they don't pay taxes to them. Finland agrees and so they ally and Finland pay Soviets now and then. If they don't pay Soviets would probably attack.

You see, everything you mentioned is already available through the very base of WC3. I can't see any point of implenting your idea or I've just missed it.

 

[Fingolfin]

Not directly; i think he (she) meant it as a macro command that automatically does this and that; also, i'm not yet sure about how much constraint i should put on allying in the early game to prevent smaller nations from being unfavoured.

There are some problems with the suggestion though; the surrender would have to be permanent, since the surrendered player would otherwise just use their time in occupation for preparing for a counter attack.
Also, i don't really see why players would choose this option, since they could just get the full income from those cities by conquering them.

I'm still somewhat interrested though, since i have experience playing games like Risk NextGen, where i constantly end up in a position where i have to trade for my survival with vastly larger enemies. It would be nice for those players to have a second chance.

 

[RiotZ]

I found a nice little buff to your map while I was looking over what could be done to mine, and I found something simple but brilliant. Are you going to be using a custom font in this map? Because if so I have the found the perfect font for a WWII map.

>Impact<

 

[Vuormalainen]

I found a nice little buff to your map while I was looking over what could be done to mine, and I found something simple but brilliant. Are you going to be using a custom font in this map? Because if so I have the found the perfect font for a WWII map.

*Impact*

Custom fonts aint very friendly to WC3 as I know it, sometimes they don't work, and if they do you have to restart WC3 to get ridd of it. But if it works ok, it would be pretty nice indeed! I guess fingolfin could try. =)

Basically - do you know if they work as they should?

 

[Fingolfin]

The problem with custom fonts is that it doesn't always support all kind of country-specific symbols. This means that swedish and german players might be without their precious Å/Ä/Ö, and greek/russian players would end up writing a row of boxes alone!
This is one of the reasons why the Diablo team chose to skip their custom font.

It's still a fully valid suggestion though, and i will consider the possibility.

 

[RiotZ]

Custom fonts aint very friendly to WC3 as I know it, sometimes they don't work, and if they do you have to restart WC3 to get ridd of it. But if it works ok, it would be pretty nice indeed! I guess fingolfin could try. =)

Basically - do you know if they work as they should?

Yes I'm using a custom font in my survival map, and I planned on using one in my WWII whenever I get resources to work on it.

 

[Hugomath]

Which class is going to be the StuG III?

I saw it here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/panzerfaust-178758/

 

[Fingolfin]

It's not going to be in the game. Vuorma made it for his map, and as practice.
I love the look of the StuG, but there's no suitable role for it.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Which class is going to be the StuG III?

I saw it here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/panzerfaust-178758/

I just used Fingolfins soldier to demonstrate the panzerfaust and in the same run show my StuG III

 

[Hugomath]

Ah ok

 

[WOWWARS]

so its kinda nearing a month now when is it commingz out? like Estimated like a month 3 weeks , tonight , or 1 year

 

[Fingolfin]

Well, i only have a small number of models left to finish, like the german halftrack, some naval vessels, and the airplanes - but the first pre-beta version in which others than me and vuorma can participate is drawing quite near. I can't tell excactly when, but i could say that i want at least the european/african/atlantic (or just "top") theatre to be finished terrain-wise and all factions within it playable.

Sadly, i will not make it before i go to greece next friday, so it will have to wait at least another month.

 

[RiotZ]

I just noticed something. Your German soldier is an edit of the Helghast model isn't it? I could see a near identical canister hanging from the back of one of them, and I saw the small pouches on their chests.

 

[Fingolfin]

No, it is actually the helghast design that is originaly inspired from german uniforms. The creators of Killzone were aiming to make a WW2-esque game in a new environment, with a new twist. The german soldier is scratch modeled, since i couldn't translate the cape movement into normal legs.

I could tell though that the russian soldiers are using the same bone structure and animations as the german soldier, except with a few extra bones.

 

[RiotZ]

Very kewlio.
Did you finish any of the British or American soldiers?

 

[Hugomath]

Won't GB and USA use the same model for the soldier? Or you're gonna make an American and a British soldier? There are few things that changes, like the helmets.

 

[Fingolfin]

Yes, they will use the same model.
I might add an extra model for the japanese infantry though, we will see.

 

[RiotZ]

Why not just make them all the same model but make different attachments, like for instance the Japanese have very unusual helmets.

 

[Fingolfin]

Well, in the case of the japanese, it's more about the uniform color and shape, since they had a more tan color than the americans and the russians.
I could use attatchment points for differing headgear, or perhaps for adding backpacks etc., but if i make a model for the japanese i will also include the option of adding a second helmet attatchment in order to use them as chinese infantry.

 

[Hugomath]

Hmm that makes me think of a possibility of Bayonet Charges(BANZAAAAAAI!) for the Japanese xD. Any chances?

 

[Fingolfin]

Well, at least awesome ninja swords for the officers!!

 

[Hugomath]

Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool but I was thinking on something like this:

*Ingame*
<Icon> Bayonet Charge
Orders the Japanese Soldier to attack nearby enemies with it's bayonet. The caster will automatically select the nearest enemy organic unit and instantly rushing onto it, in a suicidal however powerful meele strike. In this mode, the Japanese Soldier is much more weak, however fast and hard to hit.
*Ingame*

Well I don't understand that much of triggers, but the effect is to make the selected units to rush into the nearest enemy organic unit. To avoid problems, the spell would buff the targeted unit with a dummy buff. Units with that dummy buff cannot be targeted again by other soldier, unless it is removed. If the caster dies before the attack, the attacked unit will obviously be debuffed and will be targetable again by Japanese Infantry. There is, however, two problems:
1st: I don't know if that is possible.
2nd: The fact that the infantry is equipped with SMGs, and it wasn't common to have bayonets in your SMG, only in rifles.

An alternate way is to change that spell to melee attack. In the case of normal infantry, they would attack with they SMGs by punching their enemies with the weapon's stock. In case of engineers(if they use rifles), they would charge with bayonets. In the case of machinegunners, they would leave the MG behind and take a Katana(that ninja sword) and run to the target, or, if they use a Type-99 LMG, they would attack with bayonets.

 

[Fingolfin]

I will make japanese units use rifles. We'll see how i solve that whole bayonet thing.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Good idea, and yes its possible. Lets see what Fingolfin thinks! =)

 

[WOWWARS]

Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool but I was thinking on something like this:

*Ingame*
<Icon> Bayonet Charge
Orders the Japanese Soldier to attack nearby enemies with it's bayonet. The caster will automatically select the nearest enemy organic unit and instantly rushing onto it, in a suicidal however powerful meele strike. In this mode, the Japanese Soldier is much more weak, however fast and hard to hit.
*Ingame*

Well I don't understand that much of triggers, but the effect is to make the selected units to rush into the nearest enemy organic unit. To avoid problems, the spell would buff the targeted unit with a dummy buff. Units with that dummy buff cannot be targeted again by other soldier, unless it is removed. If the caster dies before the attack, the attacked unit will obviously be debuffed and will be targetable again by Japanese Infantry. There is, however, two problems:
1st: I don't know if that is possible.
2nd: The fact that the infantry is equipped with SMGs, and it wasn't common to have bayonets in your SMG, only in rifles.

An alternate way is to change that spell to melee attack. In the case of normal infantry, they would attack with they SMGs by punching their enemies with the weapon's stock. In case of engineers(if they use rifles), they would charge with bayonets. In the case of machinegunners, they would leave the MG behind and take a Katana(that ninja sword) and run to the target, or, if they use a Type-99 LMG, they would attack with bayonets.

kinda like james7's map age of napoleon? he should finish age of napoleon lol he needs to fix some bugs and add a better system.

 

[Falafelkorv]

Haha, im gonna use Banzai for sure!
Great idea!

//Zelzahim

 

[RiotZ]

@Fingolfin: Give the officers Sabers or Katanas, or whatever floats your boat, you can switch between a rifle and a Saber using Bear Form (Which is a tad glitchy) or Burrow, and you could add a spell animation for him pulling it out. Or you could always add a class for the Japanese similar to the Helghast shocktroopers: Run and gun! By the way Killzone 2 is quite an epic game, I can't wait for the 3rd.

I think it would be quite epic to see the Japanese officers just start stabbing the shit out of infantry. xD
The alternate form of the officer: The one with the Katana, Saber, whatever, can have a high movement speed than his original form. Charging sounds a bit random to me.

One last thing, will infantry have the same, debuff as vehicles when they are injured, like slowing down and having a higher chance to miss, or not being able to attack at all?

 

[Vuormalainen]

One last thing, will infantry have the same, debuff as vehicles when they are injured, like slowing down and having a higher chance to miss, or not being able to attack at all?

Infantries movement speed is only (?) decreased when beeing hit by lights tanks, therefore making light tanks usefull aswell.

And as now, it seems like they don't have any other debuffs and certainly not needed ^^

 

[Fingolfin]

I did a map once based on BlinkBoy's napoleonic skirmisher model (together with a few similar models made by myslef), in which i used the whole stance change ability based on storm crow that caused them to go into "bayonet mode".
This is very practical from a lot of aspects, but the problem is that it might be tedious for the player to swap stances on a large ammount of units, and it would be annoying to have a few units killed because you forgot to change the stance.
This doesn't seem like a very large problem for most, but it really makes you crazy when yo have a lot of other things to think about while playing.

As far as i can see though, it is propable the most practical and simple suloution at the moment and it is propably how i will do it.

 

[Diazz0229]

Maybe there's no need to select all of your units to change stances, just make a spell for officers, so it will order all others units around them to do this or that?

 

[Hugomath]

Maybe when infantry gets like 20% of their health, they will charge with bayonets.

 

[Fingolfin]

lol, that is a pretty interresting idea.
I'm still into the idea of making it into an ability though, like a temporary buff applied to all nearby units based on roar.

I have yet to finish the japanese infantry model though.

 

[RiotZ]

I think that's the best idea so far. "20% health OHMYGAWD... CHARGE!!!"

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I wonder if you could add special people or wanted terrorists and allow events to be made for killing them or using them for doing something, and maybe they could have a level system based on their achievements, while the 'Levels' give them command of more arsenal of units.

 

[RiotZ]

That sounds a bit outside the area of genre, but let's hear what Fingolfin has to say.

 

[Vuormalainen]

I wonder if you could add special people or wanted terrorists and allow events to be made for killing them or using them for doing something, and maybe they could have a level system based on their achievements, while the 'Levels' give them command of more arsenal of units.

*cough* micro *cough* me not like *cough*

 

[Thingolus]

This Map is going to be so Awesome!
i cant wait till its complete!
But maybe increase the German Soldiers transporter size, it looks to small, or the soldiers looks to big.
And, you dont create Heavy Tanks, like the "Tiger II" ?

 

[Fingolfin]

The infantry transported size will be lowered, don't worry.
And nah, i don't have "heavy tanks" by their conventional meaning, basically since they are nothing but beefed-up medium tanks, wich only causes escalation.
Instead of heavy tanks, i have "tank hunters" which are basically heavy armored tank killers, as you would assume.
Germans do have the ability to research Tiger I's under the label "advanced medium tank", even though they were technically heavy tanks, so that is the closest you will get.

Despite it's name, the tiger is actually an alternative to the heavy tank (tank hunter).

And about the 20% hp charge, even though i love the concept, chances are that units which already have very low hp are going to expose themselves to even more damage and ultimately get themselves killed before actually doing any good.

From what i can tell though, i'd want the effect to be either permanent, or self-expiring to prevent micro issues.

@Foxy: Riotz is right, that is a bit outside of the genre of this map.

 

[Vuormalainen]

This Map is going to be so Awesome!

Comment of truth!

 

[RiotZ]

Will this map have buildings which would be used to create units, or will it be like my least favorite genre of map aside from AoSs, a self-spawning map. I think if you don't have to build the units it kills the entire RTS strategy part of the genre. So please don't tell me units spawn automatically!?

 

[Hugomath]

Hey Fingolfin have you already created a model for Sea Batteries?

 

[Fingolfin]

No, units don't spawn automatically. You train them individually on respective factories.
infantry is trained at control points, i.e. "cities".

@Hugomath: no, but i'm almost finished with the mesh for the japanese battleship, the IJN Kongo!

Epic frontal shot:

Image

Profile:

Image

The IJN Kongo was designed by the japanese, but constructed by Vickers in britain by japanese demand. By the time it stood finished, it was the single most effectice battlecruiser of it's time, and participated in almost every large campaign during the first and second world war.

Battleships/battlecruisers will have two aircraft transport slots, but will not be able to refuel nearby planes.

Ikillforeyou has agreed to design a system that allows ship turets to operate individually, which might result in some pretty awesome battleship fights.
This also means that turrets can be destroyed in order to cripple the ship; destroyed turrets can be repaired when the ship is in the proximity of a harbour.

Don't get your hopes up though, it's not certain wether it is possible to acomplish this in warcraft, and he can only do so much.
This is just a concept i had in my head.

 

[ikillforeyou]

BTW: if you want the turrets to be able to do what you want you're going to need to have them as seperate models. This is going to be a pain as pitch/roll of ships will cause the turrets to go up and down, but as you can only make them go up with triggers it could be a logistical nightmare.

Instead of ships pitch/rolling make them go up and down linearly. and don't make them have birth anims. (Or have the turrets have birth anims of the same amount of key frames)
And have the turrets as seperate models with seperate attack anims.

 

[Hugomath]

Wow! Really nice xD

Btw, I got Battlefield 1942 with two extensions: Road to Rome and Secret Weapons of WWII(kicks ass) and I did saw the T-28 and man... it really kicks ass . It's so awesome, even that its an artillery. Hell, I destroyed one Tiger and one Panzer IV with few shots, and I only lost half of my hitpoints. And I saw some awesome planes, like the ME-263 and that American one which I don't know the name, but its nice too. Anyways, I got some inspiration after some dogfights against German bots(on hard, I hunted and destroyed two BF-109 with a P-51, and then I was shot by an AA Flak, after trying to release some bombs xD) and I wondered if it was going to be any special air fighting system. Oh and I also would like to suggest a "Kamikaze" ability for Japanese aircraft(I did a kamikaze strike against a Sherman, its pretty effective). Would work just like that suggestion I gave about the infantry bayonet charges: If for example a Zero gets about 25% health, it would throw itself into the closest enemy mechanical unit(an battleship, for example) and would deal a great damage, enough to destroy any land unit(obviously) and seriously damaging a naval unit. It also would be possible to hit aerial units, but with some kind of chance to miss(it's a bit hard to follow enemy aircrafts on dogfights in Bf1942 ), increased chances to miss against small aircraft(interceptor fighters, escort fighters) and increased chances to hit bigger aircraft(strategical bombers).

I also got some inspiration from Bf1942 Road to Rome: the AT-Guns would be deployable, increasing hit chances(needs to be casted by the player, or it would be annoying to have AT-Guns deploying randomly). Yeah I know, it doesn't seems a good idea, but just suggesting.

Oh and if you are going to implement that system which the ships automatically operate(and if I got the point), don't forget the AA Flaks .

 

[baassee]

Now this is cool! Keep up the good work guys!

What do you code in, GUI?

 

[Vuormalainen]

Now this is cool! Keep up the good work guys!

What do you code in, GUI?

both

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I'm really sorry, I hope you are not angry at me...
Erm, so how's the progress of the map?

Edit: How about adding 'Pollution' next to some refineries which can lower stats of nearby units, as well as a risk of having dangerous structures like production plants getting destroyed by accidental explosions if it's attacked?

 

[Fingolfin]

BTW: if you want the turrets to be able to do what you want you're going to need to have them as seperate models. This is going to be a pain as pitch/roll of ships will cause the turrets to go up and down, but as you can only make them go up with triggers it could be a logistical nightmare.

Instead of ships pitch/rolling make them go up and down linearly. and don't make them have birth anims. (Or have the turrets have birth anims of the same amount of key frames)
And have the turrets as seperate models with seperate attack anims.

That was exactly my intention. I'm pretty sute i mentioned sending you separate ship/turret models to you, should you agree.
I'd propably have to remove the animation where ships bob up and down (on the waves), but that is quite worth it.

Also, i'm not sure how a birth anim would look for a ship.. they don't have one, anyways.

My idea was like this:
Using a periodic event, you update the location of each turret unit to be correctly aligned and rotated to match the position of it's corresponding ship. The same event also compares the rotation of the turret to the rotation of the ship, and doesn't allow it to rotate more than, say, 270 degrees.
My ships have no "pitch and roll", since that only looks ugly and cartoony.
The instant the ship dies, all turrets explode, so that it won't look awkward when the ship sinks.



And @Miss_Foxy, why would i be angry at you?
I think it's lovely that people come with suggestions, some are good, some are less good, but that's just the way it is.
Don't mind Vuormalainen, he can be harsh at times.

 

[baassee]

both

both? vJASS too?

 

[ikillforeyou]

I'd suggest ditching the less then 270 because you'd need another group enum inside of a loop inside of a group enum to scan for targets, and that could get very laggy. i could do it but it would require reducing the update speed of the turret position, so that the turret would sort of look to be "jumping"

Your call.