WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

[Miss_Foxy]

Maybe make those orders as 'small' as possible, to reduce lag.

 

[WOWWARS]

MISS FOXY HAZ THE 500TH POST IN THIS!!! LETS PARTY BY PLAYING THE GAME! lol

 

[baassee]

Maybe make those orders as 'small' as possible, to reduce lag.

That will create the opposite, just think about it, if there are lots of aircraft and every single one is supposed to circle (if not landed or any other feature), it will constantly order the units new orders every let's say 0.5 second or even less.

That would create tons of orders each second which would result laggs. (I've tested a similar at different TD systems to try to make a "passive unstuck" feature)

 

[Fingolfin]

I am absolutely sure that the system is fixable, my only concern is how many multiple instances it can support without causing lag. It completely depends on the efficiency of the code.

 

[RiotZ]

I am absolutely sure that the system is fixable, my only concern is how many multiple instances it can support without causing lag. It completely depends on the efficiency of the code.

Don't you wish Blizzard would have did a better job with a waypoint patrol feature.

Why not just animate the planes with a circular animation and use that when they are completely standing still? Don't tell me it would glitch and make the animation look retarded, because it won't if you do it right.
Or find a simpler solution like patrol.. Because I really have to tell you Fingolfin, this borders impossible as Baassee said. In order to form even a shitty non-perfect circle you would have to move to a point using triggers maybe, 70 times.
Although.. Maybe you could make them move to a point and then check if they reach the point and give them another so there wouldn't be 10000 orders at a time; however, I don't know if this would decrease lag very much or even at all.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Hmm.. How about some 'Taunt' thingy?

 

[Fingolfin]

Don't you wish Blizzard would have did a better job with a waypoint patrol feature.

Why not just animate the planes with a circular animation and use that when they are completely standing still? Don't tell me it would glitch and make the animation look retarded, because it won't if you do it right.
Or find a simpler solution like patrol.. Because I really have to tell you Fingolfin, this borders impossible as Baassee said. In order to form even a shitty non-perfect circle you would have to move to a point using triggers maybe, 70 times.
Although.. Maybe you could make them move to a point and then check if they reach the point and give them another so there wouldn't be 10000 orders at a time; however, I don't know if this would decrease lag very much or even at all.

Since you have no experience with modeling i can't see how you can claim to know that better. If i animate the motion, you will hardly be able to select the model since the extents would be fucked up, and also, the transition between circeling and normal flight would look insanely bad, since warcraft does not wait for the stand animation to "finish" before it plays the walk animation (and i don't see why it would do any different).

It is impossible ty synchronize the animations to fit since warcraft has very limiteed support for blending animations - although that would hardly help either, since it would still look funny if the plane would go from the bottom of the start of the cycle to the end in an instant.

And don't you think the patrol command uses excactly the same mechanics as the move command?

I know this system is not impossible, since it has been done before. It doesn't have to be perfectly smooth; as long as the planes aren't floating in mid-air like helicopters.

The option would be to significantly limit the activity of the aircraft; say, you launch an air raid from a carrier or an airport, and have the planes fly there and do their job, or order them to escort a bomber or similar - just a job that limits the ammount of orders that has to be goven from the player to the aircraft and complicate it's route. The aircraft would never stand still; if it has no orders, it will return to the airfield, or the players could order them to land on the ground.

Who knows.

 

[baassee]

It isn't impossible, you can make it other ways like when they are standing still, you have a movement system that "moves" them in a circle.

The above was just an example

 

[RiotZ]

Why not just make them revert back to the hangar after their orders?

 

[Fingolfin]

[...]The aircraft would never stand still; if it has no orders, it will return to the airfield[...]

....

 

[Hugomath]

Indeed, what Fingolfin said looks good. Pilots wouldn't be flying around just wasting fuel, they would surely return to the nearest airfield or aircraft carrier when they have no orders. Of course, there would be players complaining that the aircraft is doing things by itself, and going into enemy lines. For example, after a bombing mission behind enemy lines, lets say a bomber would return to the nearest airfield, which is not the one it left, but another one that it would have to pass through AA fortifications, or even close to an enemy airfield, with interceptor fighters landed. This could be easily solved if the player pay attention to such mission, but some of them usually don't.

EDIT: Oh right, any ideas on how would planes turn back? Specially the large ones.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Does it work with an invisible dummy unit 'Taunting' them and blinking to different spots?

 

[Hugomath]

That would make the unit to attack the dummy, wouldn't it?

 

[baassee]

Taunt would probably malfunction as it taunts "all" units in the selected area, will be alot of work just to make them not attack.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

How about a function like, something that blocks the plane?

 

[Fingolfin]

I don't understan this, what is all this discussion about the taunt ability?
You guys have to understand, EVERYTHING in warcraft can be broken down to basic things such as gruops and move orders, for instance, i am 100% sure that the taunt ability consists of one "forGroup()", and then a condition of some kind, and then an attack order for each unit in the group. The patrol command works completely similar; it issues a move order to a stored node once the unit has reached the other node. Most of those things will draft even more cpu than just ordering the unit to move around with triggers.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Made an awesome test flash website for you people to stare at, http://worldinflames.tk/ BETA.

Not decided if we're gonna have a website or not, as I said this was just a test.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Oh... That's nice, maybe you could research more on the movement ability (Or post a thread that 'hires' people to help research it for you) and maybe see what can be done

 

[RiotZ]

....

(I didn't read that part). . . Well I think that sort of settles it then, if you want a plane to patrol an area use the damn patrol command, at least that is what I would do in the early betas until I decided how I was actually going to do the system.

 

[Fingolfin]

To be honest, i am not likely to include aircraft at all in the first beta.

 

[baassee]

To be honest, i am not likely to include aircraft at all in the first beta.

Agreed.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

But why not?

 

[Vuormalainen]

But why not?

to make sure everything else works and is balanced first

 

[Falafelkorv]

To be honest, i am not likely to include aircraft at all in the first beta.

Good choice

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Okay... I'll be looking forward to the tanks and stuff then
By the way, will there be things like railroads and such?

 

[baassee]

Okay... I'll be looking forward to the tanks and stuff then
By the way, will there be things like railroads and such?

You love details don't you? I guess they want the BETA to be as simple as possible, show "some" of the features, gameplay and such. Although it is a very nice idea!

 

[Fingolfin]

I remember karland suggesting that in the old thread, but we realized it was impossible to achieve a nice working railroad system for this map - and besides - the map scale is too large for that since the trains would look insanely big.

 

[RiotZ]

To be honest, i am not likely to include aircraft at all in the first beta.

Excellent decision.

 

[Hugomath]

I got a suggestion, but I don't know if its already included, but anyways I was thinking of something that prevents large naval units, such as battleships, submarines, etc to come close to shore beaches. That would make sense, since a large ship cant come too close to the shore on a beach, or it will run ashore. And in the game, it would be prevented from attacking targets very far from beach, think of a battleship in the beach of Normandy being able to hit Paris lol.

 

[Fingolfin]

Battleships will not be able to hit land targets anyway, except with the shore bombardment ability. This is yet another point where the scale of the map makes those kind of tiny details irrelevant. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Will there be aircraft carriers too?

 

[Fingolfin]

Yes, as stated in the main post. Not in the beta though, since they would be quite useless without aircraft.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Haha, will they be able to shoot little missiles like in WW3 by Ham_Ham?

 

[Fingolfin]

lol, hardly.
I'm not sure missile warfare was incorporated at all during WW2 (despite being so already in the napoleonic age!)

 

[WOWWARS]

so how bout lesss talky and more completeing

 

[L1ch_K1ng]

when this map released

 

[Falafelkorv]

when this map released

Did you really make a account just to post that?

 

[Hugomath]

I don't think so. He joined one month after you.

 

[WOWWARS]

hurry up with dis map wc3 is dieing every day.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

No it isn't, I'm sure people are still joining Warcraft III by the minute, and Blizzard already mentioned that they would make Warcraft III better and update it forever. Lets get back on topic

Erm, Fin do tank barriers block tanks or slow them down?

 

[Vuormalainen]

tank barriers block tanks or slow them down?

Right now theres only tank barriers placed in the terrain for eye-candy. But I had the idea of engineers building them and that they would slow down mechanical units nearby yea, don't know about Fingolfin yet tho.

edit:
about release.. I'am pretty sure we could get betas running by at least late november but I wouldn't expect the map with all features to be finished before January.

 

[WOWWARS]

Right now theres only tank barriers placed in the terrain for eye-candy. But I had the idea of engineers building them and that they would slow down mechanical units nearby yea, don't know about Fingolfin yet tho.

edit:
about release.. I'am pretty sure we could get betas running by at least late november but I wouldn't expect the map with all features to be finished before January.

are u working on the map???

 

[Falafelkorv]

are u working on the map???

Ofcourse he is, it would take dubble the time to do alone

 

[Dromlexer]

When will this map released? =)

 

[Vuormalainen]

are u working on the map???

Fingolfin as well as me is working on the map, correct.

When will this map released? =)

Quoting my other reply "about release.. I'am pretty sure we could get betas running by at least late november but I wouldn't expect the map with all features to be finished before January."

 

[RiotZ]

It's funny how it goes from "1 month to lift off." To "2 months" to "I don't fucking knowlol?!/"

 

[Fingolfin]

To me it's just pretty damn amazing how this can go from nothing to an awesome 420x420, fully custom total conversion map in just about 6 months. You don't realize what incredible progress this map achieves every week that passes.

 

[M0rbid]

It's funny how it goes from "1 month to lift off." To "2 months" to "I don't fucking knowlol?!/"

In my opinion you should abstain from posting such negativ and useless things regarding a mammoth project that surely needs it's time.
You should realize that a project of that size with so many customizations not only needs some time but also is constantly confronted with problems, some might be visable right from the beginning, however others are not and just pop up suddenly. So it's fully understandable that it is pretty hard to give exact dates for releases or anything like that. This is quite common in professional game design aswell. And hell, this is not a commercial product here, so there's not ANY reason why it should differ here.
Another thing you might should consider is the very small amount of workers that do work on this. It makes every problem that appears even harder to deal with.

I think that the progress is immense and you should not criticize this without a valid reason or unconstructiv like you did.

 

[Fingolfin]

Thank you, i perfectly agree.

 

[Hugomath]

My God can't you guys wait? Look at the size of this project! M0rbid is right, this project needs time. They are working the best way they can and they have enough problems to deal with, so why rushing them? Be patient. If they rush to end this project as soon as they can, then the map would surely look bad. Aren't you impressed the way the map is being finished? I mean, in 6 months, several awesome models were created, good part of the terrain finished, lots of systems made, and many others. You should be satisfied with the current result of this map, because such big project would take almost two years to get ready with only two guys working, and in half an year, look what we got! This is like 50% ready, with Beta versions released in the next month.

Congratulations to both Fingolfin and Vuormalainen, for such great job until now.