What is reputation?

[Solu9]

Tl;dr at the bottom.

Since I joined Hive the reputation system has always been confusing to me. Mainly because reputation can be received for almost anything on the site, and is obviously abusable.

What is reputation meant to resemble?
Initially I thought reputation was some kind of point system which users could use to award other users who contributed to the site by creating resources for others to use. It is, but it seems to be more than that.
A user can also receive reputation from simple comments on a resource, to long winded speeches in some debate thread. Hell, I have even myself handed out reputation because someone said something funny or "true".
So rather than resemble a user's "material" contribution to the site and the respect earned by that, it is an glorified version of the "like" system, and can therefore better be seen as a user's general popularity or status.
And this is what I find confusing still.

I see the terms; "reputation" and "popularity", as two different things.
Where reputation is gained through actions and showing ones worth, popularity is more personal and is gained through socialization and likeability.
By merging these terms the most brilliant artist who lacks the ability to socialize, and therefore will only receive reputation from his resources, will seem to contribute (if that's how reputation is seen) less than the over social I'm-friends-with-everyone-and-his-brother who receives reputation from biased sources for useless (in the sense of contributing to the site) posts. Obviously there are a lot of cases where this is not the... case.

Seen from that angle, reputation does not resemble a user's actual contribution to the site but is more closely related to the Facebook system. More friends, more likes, or, reputation. And therefore doesn't really resemble anything other than you know a lot of people.

Reputation is of course also gained when helping people with problems in the several sub fora on the site and is probably the best example on where the difference between reputation and popularity fades. By helping out you will gain the reputation of being helpful while socializing at the same time. I'll get back to this.


Why I am writing all this?
Out of curiosity to how other users see reputation and how they use it.
It shall be no secret that I find the current system lacking because it is not clearly defined what reputation is and I don't like how it is being used (abused).


Suggestions:
It would not be a true site discussion thread without some suggestions of change so here are some which will make the reputation system actually mean something. In my head anyway.

Reputation can only be received as follows:
-Resources uploaded to the resource sections. (Models, skins, icons, spells, maps)
-By the thread starter in the help fora or requests sections. (So only the user who made the thread can hand out reputation in the particular thread).
-Reputation can only be handed out in these particular fora/sections.
-Standard users' reputation power is 1, no more no less. No matter reputation level or post count. (I simply can't see the reason for reputation power).
-Anything else remains the same.

As a new thing users can receive something similar to reputation on the rest of the site. I'll call it Hive Points, but Chocolate Bunny Points is just as good imo.


Please note:
For all of you who like the reputation system as it is be calm. These suggestions will never be implemented so no need to ignite.
Also. Try to keep the personal attacks out of this. I have my opinions, you have yours.

So how, when, why, do you hand out reputation and do you agree or disagree with my thoughts?



Tl;dr - Read the post

 

[Chaosy]

I honestly go with popular opinion here, I see, and have always seen rep as a proof of what a person has achieved. High rep = useful/help person, however after working my @$$ of in the world editor help zone. (trust me I was very active back then) I noticed that some users that barely were useful (my definition of useful anyway) but had way more rep than me.

I'd like to link examples of such persons but that would be insulting..

Anyway, I highly agree on the friend thing. Tons of friends gives tons of rep, so those hyper social persons that -spams- VMS to their friends are very likely to get rep'd for random posts in different sections

edit: I found one of those examples on my own rep list.. sadly. He have given me rep 15 times in a short period of time. And no, not 15 rep points, he clicked add rep 15 times.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I'm fine with the reputation system as it is. I don't make recources, but I do determine for moderators to reject maps or approve them based on rules and quality* in the map pending zone. I do get disappointed when I get rep for commenting in model and skin sections, and none from map reviews. (I give around 5-10 rep a day, only to recources/map dev WE help zone, and to fellow map review posts)

 

[GreeN!X]

They're GIFS with some numerical equivalent or shit.

Though, to be honest, I love getting rep myself. I love it as much as getting a VM or a PM. For me, it's some kind of sign that you're noticed by other people or you've done something useful and something like that.

I agree on the friend thing too and I admit I am also one of those people who gain rep from friends here in hive. Lately though, (probably within the last year or two) I've seen users who gain a lot more than they truly deserve. WAY more than that. Somehow to the point where people seem to be giving him/her rep in every one of his posts (....Nah, not really. That was a little exaggerated). But, yeah, as pointed out already, reputation seems to represent a user's popularity.

 

[fladdermasken]

What is reputation?

Cruise control for ego.

 

[Gilles]

Your TL;DR sucked. Now I have no idea what this thread was about... but I never let that stop me before!

Cruise control for ego.

Quote for truth.

It also allows you to show people how little you care what they think about you (by disabling), and then completely miss the irony.

 

[PurgeandFire]

I can agree that popularity and reputation interfere. But it is difficult to place restrictions on reputation, for many reasons.

Reputation is something that can drive a site. People like to receive appreciation. It may be a bit of a sad truth, but there are many examples out there. Just look at reddit or imgur. People fish for upvotes as if it is real money. And trust me, people go crazy over reputation/upvote injustice over there too. By nature, those sorts of systems are imperfect because they rely on user input. Users cannot be controlled. Restricting them more and more will only lead to dissatisfaction.

Regardless of morals, reputation plays a role into people's motivation to help. While that may be perceived as bad, it is kind of nice for the site as a whole. You hardly have threads without any replies (except in requests). New users also get some motivation to stay on the site (in any help forum, there are "one-and-done" posters). Now, I know you aren't saying to remove reputation or anything like that, but any changes must be weighed carefully so that they don't demotivate users.

It is possible to restrict it to more sections, but since all sections apart from off-topic have potential for "valid" reputation, I don't think that is necessary. As for restricting who can give rep (the thread owner), that may be detrimental considering there are a decent amount of forum-goers (myself included) who admitted to giving reputation to posts that have been helpful. Nothing is wrong with someone getting extra rep for a particularly helpful post, especially if it helps more than one person. And if someone comes in late to the thread to help someone other than the author, it is unfair that the helper wouldn't be able to be repped.

The reputation power of 1 thing is a neat idea. But I think there are too many associated issues. It would deflate everyone's rep (which might lead to some disappointment), but it would also nullify a lot of the rewards for contests. There are a lot of contests that just offer reputation rewards rather than icons (especially mini-contests), and it would be difficult to strain those out of all the reputation that people have been given.

I agree that 1 rep power is more fair, but it is (1) motivating to users (so they can give more reputation) (2) exciting for some users. Imagine you're a street performer. It feels nice when people throw chump change into your hat, but when Mr. Big-Shot sporting a swirly mustache, long top-hat, monocle, and flamboyant pants comes in and flashes some cash, you get a big thrill. And then you become hopeful that a similar man will return again. Fair? Not quite. Fun? Probably. Maybe I just like to preserve reputation's uniqueness. When it goes down to 1 power, it becomes even more like the "like" system. But due to the fact that reputation has varying power, can actually have comments, and isn't used the same way as a "like" or "upvote" on other sites, it becomes a different entity.

As for Chocolate Bunny Points, something like that may be considered for Hive 2. There was a discussion about it, I think. It would be a good alternative solution to the issue at hand.

Although, it is always good to remain hopeful. I'm not shutting down your suggestions, because this has actually been a case in the past. Before 2008 or 2009, users needed a certain reputation level to grant reputation at all. Otherwise they would end up giving 0 (maybe to prevent rep bots)? But that was problematic because a good portion of those asking for help were newer users. It was eventually changed, for the better IMO, and I believe it made a good difference. Similarly, off-topic got its reputation restriction at some point in time. That helped restore some validity to reputation as well. It isn't perfect, but it has had some good changes in the past. It is true that there are many cases of popularity-reputation, but I think there are even more "good" examples of reputation. As such, I believe there is still credibility in it. you just have to look hard enough, and believe. ;-;

 

[Kazeon]

I don't care about rep so I disabled it. honestly and as always, I prefer having ratings than reps. But dunno why it looks really really hard for people just to hit the rate button and just gave rep+ instead, whereas rate button is bigger than add rep button and easier to click, but still...

 

[Xonok]

When giving out rep I use the assumption that rep without a comment is equivalent to a like, while a rep with a comment is for doing something good. ("Spreading" is not a comment)
Since I consider the first to be pointless, then all rep given by me always has a comment.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

When giving out rep I use the assumption that rep without a comment is equivalent to a like, while a rep with a comment is for doing something good. ("Spreading" is not a comment)
Since I consider the first to be pointless, then all rep given by me always has a comment.

All of my rep comments now have an explanation, and should. I've learned this recently, on mobile devices you can hold the rep button and tap new tab. There you can put a comment.

I don't care about rep so I disabled it. honestly and as always, I prefer having ratings than reps. But dunno why it looks really really hard for people just to hit the rate button and just gave rep+ instead, whereas rate button is bigger than add rep button and easier to click, but still...

Ratings aren't rewards, reps are displayed at your profile instead of resources. If it's just ratings, people in other forums wouldn't have the pleasure of ratings even if they did something really helpful. People look at ratings from before clicking on the recourse and before downloading. But I'm betting people are looking at the comments and description more than the rating.

 

[Heinvers]

Cruise control for ego.

Quite true.

 

[GhostThruster]

i agree completely, and i hate to be 'that guy', but someone has to call out those who clearly abuse the system.

-grendel, frankster, pharaoh, vengeancekael, purgeandfire. neither of these imbeciles have contributed anything to the site, and continue to persist as wastes of bandwith. they exemplify the hamartia of giving users the ability to rep. i take more shits per day than these guys contribute resources/helpful information per annum.

reputation works. not perfectly, but abuse is in the minority of situations. not much to discuss

 

[rulerofiron99]

^ Not sure if you're being sarcastic or have an extremely active bowel, but I frequently see PurgeandFire giving advanced help in GUI/JASS. I can't comment on the rest of your list, since I'm only really active in trigger-related forums.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

There can be no change until the system is reseted. We can't simply change the way system works or else it's very biased as some still huge amount of it while it means something else suddenly.

I believe those who have a lot of "reputation" will never want to reset the thing. Or change the system. For me, whatever. I don't care about the number, but what people actually write there. Sometimes it gives a smile or even a laugh. Sometimes it can also be a negative note, but that's fine too.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Neat idea! We should have like button for posts

 

[Heinvers]

Neat idea! We should have like button for posts

facebook? 0_o

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Yah and real time chat box at bottom right

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Don't forget about friends' status update feed page

 

[Rui]

I've been using reputation pretty much in the way you described it: as a mixture of the Like system with that which was perhaps its real intention — rewarding contributive people. You've addressed the problem with accuracy.

I have suggested a few improvements in the past, the 1 rep power for everyone was included.

The system is indeed flawed and fixing it has long been postponed. The discussion about reputation usually ends when someone comes in and says «it'll be different in Hive 2», but we should be discussing in public and this thread is a good place to start, so we don't end up with another flawed or unsatisfactory system.

Because the system is flawed and because no one's nailed the issue, every once in a while, there are these proposals for secondary prizes. First, it was Pyritie's 2010 Excellence Awards. The primary issue with this award was that there simply weren't enough users to make it work, moreover because no repeated nominations were allowed.
Now you've got this merit badge decoy whose difference is fixing it so you can keep awarding the same people over and over. When this was proposed, someone should have linked the excellence awards thread and said: READ ALL THE POSTS there, especially anarchianbedlam's.

 

[andreariona]

Based from what I seen nowadays, I'd call it "how much popular" you are instead of "how much helpful" you are.

I almost never give any rep on past years before 2014, but recently, even by just reading comments from some people or something, I'd automatically felt like to give a rep.

 

[Solu9]

I agree that 1 rep power is more fair, but it is (1) motivating to users (so they can give more reputation) (2) exciting for some users. Imagine you're a street performer. It feels nice when people throw chump change into your hat, but when Mr. Big-Shot sporting a swirly mustache, long top-hat, monocle, and flamboyant pants comes in and flashes some cash, you get a big thrill. And then you become hopeful that a similar man will return again. Fair? Not quite. Fun? Probably. Maybe I just like to preserve reputation's uniqueness. When it goes down to 1 power, it becomes even more like the "like" system. But due to the fact that reputation has varying power, can actually have comments, and isn't used the same way as a "like" or "upvote" on other sites, it becomes a different entity.

I see your point but I have to disagree.
When reputation can be gained from anything on the site (comments, resources, "funny" pictures, etc etc) I see it much more as a "like" system than if a user could only receive reputation for actually contributing to the site.
A comment can, perhaps, be used for a good laugh or an interesting read, but only for those who participate in in the thread in which the comment was posted.
Whereas with resources (and to an extend, helpful comments in a help zone) can be used by anyone, and is therefore more contributing to the site in general (read: my view).
By only being able to receive reputation for resources it might even encourage people to get busy and hone their skills, which will in return give us more resources to play around with.

On the restriction of max +1 rep.
This will only become true if the other of my suggestions are left out. I agree if the maximum reputation power is decreased to 1 but reputation can still be handed out everywhere on the site, it will surely be a lot more like the "like" system.
But you have to see it in the context of all the suggestions I proposed is implemented.

When giving out rep I use the assumption that rep without a comment is equivalent to a like, while a rep with a comment is for doing something good. ("Spreading" is not a comment)
Since I consider the first to be pointless, then all rep given by me always has a comment.

I think you hit the nail with this comment. Hence my suggestions on changing how reputation gain works.
A secondary point system could solve this problem. Where the one (reputation) is gained for contributions, and the other (Chocolate Bunny Points) are received for anything else.

There can be no change until the system is reseted. We can't simply change the way system works or else it's very biased as some still huge amount of it while it means something else suddenly.

I believe those who have a lot of "reputation" will never want to reset the thing. Or change the system. For me, whatever. I don't care about the number, but what people actually write there. Sometimes it gives a smile or even a laugh. Sometimes it can also be a negative note, but that's fine too.

Indeed.
Which is why I wrote the "Please note:" in the end of the OP.
I am aware that these suggestions would change every user's reputation and quite likely all reputation would have to be wiped. I see some who might get just a tiny bit upset if that were to happen. And understandable I might add.

I've been using reputation pretty much in the way you described it: as a mixture of the Like system with that which was perhaps its real intention — rewarding contributive people. You've addressed the problem with accuracy.

I have suggested a few improvements in the past, the 1 rep power for everyone was included.

The system is indeed flawed and fixing it has long been postponed. The discussion about reputation usually ends when someone comes in and says «it'll be different in Hive 2», but we should be discussing in public and this thread is a good place to start, so we don't end up with another flawed or unsatisfactory system.

While my suggestions are almost utopian I do think it would make the reputation system more valuable.
I was expecting the Hive 2 argument, but it has seemed to skipped this thread for now.
And like many other users I am looking forward to Hive 2, it is still a distant dream. If everything is postponed to Hive 2 nothing will be done.
"When will we do something about the climate changes?", "when we populate Mars".

 

[Xonok]

The problem with switching over now is that it would require a reset, because the current rep system has been used as both a like system and contribution counter.
Perhaps Hive 2, but that is sort of a different story altogether.

Some things have to be thought of though:
Will there be parallel systems? (rep and cookies)
What happens to current rep?

Those are a bit controversial.

 

[PurgeandFire]

I see your point but I have to disagree.
When reputation can be gained from anything on the site (comments, resources, "funny" pictures, etc etc) I see it much more as a "like" system than if a user could only receive reputation for actually contributing to the site.
A comment can, perhaps, be used for a good laugh or an interesting read, but only for those who participate in in the thread in which the comment was posted.
Whereas with resources (and to an extend, helpful comments in a help zone) can be used by anyone, and is therefore more contributing to the site in general (read: my view).
By only being able to receive reputation for resources it might even encourage people to get busy and hone their skills, which will in return give us more resources to play around with.

That makes sense. But what about the situation where someone is helpful to someone apart from the thread author? e.g. those workshops in the request forums?

I think having rep power of 1 could be a good change (sort of as a massive deflation of reputation). The only real issue I have with it is how we'll accommodate for the past contest awards. I suppose if it changes for everyone, it could be okay. It would be difficult to accommodate for all the past contests, after all. Perhaps if we made a poll proposing this question, we could get a definitive answer. Anyway, what would you propose as an alternative award for future contests?

I suppose it would ultimately come down to an additional currency/brownie point/thing. Although, it almost seems pointless to have something like that if one point-thing is trivialized like that. One idea could be to make reputation turn into the bunny points and then add a new reputation system that starts from 0 (give everyone a new start?).

 

[takakenji]

rep basically shows how good of a person u are. the higher rep u have ur probably a better person than sum1 with low rep or neg rep who are scum bags

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Neat idea! We should have like button for posts

Still looking for the poke button too.


Rep should still be here however maybe a funny-store and some gold as a bonus. So rep can be exchanged for gold to buy silly icons for your profile/signature/below rep gems.

Another way could be tear the current system down and replace it with gold and buying funny icons.

 

[Solu9]

The problem with switching over now is that it would require a reset, because the current rep system has been used as both a like system and contribution counter.
Perhaps Hive 2, but that is sort of a different story altogether.

Some things have to be thought of though:
Will there be parallel systems? (rep and cookies)
What happens to current rep?

Those are a bit controversial.

That makes sense. But what about the situation where someone is helpful to someone apart from the thread author? e.g. those workshops in the request forums?

I think having rep power of 1 could be a good change (sort of as a massive deflation of reputation). The only real issue I have with it is how we'll accommodate for the past contest awards. I suppose if it changes for everyone, it could be okay. It would be difficult to accommodate for all the past contests, after all. Perhaps if we made a poll proposing this question, we could get a definitive answer. Anyway, what would you propose as an alternative award for future contests?

I suppose it would ultimately come down to an additional currency/brownie point/thing. Although, it almost seems pointless to have something like that if one point-thing is trivialized like that. One idea could be to make reputation turn into the bunny points and then add a new reputation system that starts from 0 (give everyone a new start?).

I haven't thought all possible scenarios through obviously
But yeah, my initial thought was to have two separate point systems running parallel. But as you, PurgeandFire, mentions, an additional point system can seem redundant because it will not mean anything. However that's almost the state of the current reputation system right now.
When the reputation system is used as "likes" there must be a incitament for implementing a secondary point system. I guess it depends on how and why you use the current reputation system that determines whether or not a bunny point (I like this name btw) system is useful or useless.

On contest rewards.
Since most of the contests are revolving around creating resources I don't see a problem with the rewards being reputation. In fact, if the suggestion here were implemented, I think it would give an even better incitement to join those contests.
Seeing as how the current reputation system is right now the rewards for contests are just as redundant as trivial bunny points.
Furthermore.
If reputation power were to decline to a maximum of 1 for standard users the rewards should of course be scaled accordingly.
So instead of +45,30,15 rep it could be +15,10,5 rep.

Contests not revolving around resource creation could reward bunny points and/or exclusive icons (people love icons).


For the reputation currently held by users. Gah, it's a hard nut to crack.
I guess it will be an humongous task to count a user's reputation and figure out what is gained from resources and what is not. This would be the ideal solution though.
The reset solution is the easiest and will do the job A+. But a tidal wave of flame, piss and vinegar would flood Hive if that is enforced.
So I guess a point conversion is the way to go. However that would also make the bunny point system rigged from the very beginning.


Edit:

That makes sense. But what about the situation where someone is helpful to someone apart from the thread author? e.g. those workshops in the request forums?

Forgot this.
It's a good question to which I don't have an ideal solution right now.

 

[Rui]

So perhaps we could explore on the alternative of using two or three separate systems: one for contributions, another one for Likes/reputation and possibly a third one for contest points?

On the conversion side, allow me to consider a few more options, their (dis)advantages and synthesize them:

(I) Keep a single reputation system but try to fix it by imposing new rules, such as a singular reputation point power for everyone

As noted, this raises the retroactiveness issue. Three solutions are available:

• Keep the current reputation pool for everyone, but apply the new rules from now on,
• Set everyone's reputation to zero and apply the new rules from thereon
• Retroactively calculate users' reputation pool applying the new rules

The majority here seems to be included for option #c — as am I.

Option #a would place a high disparity for starters, perhaps.



(II) Have two separate systems: one for Likes/reputation, another one for contributions on the forums, such as helping out in the Help Zone or Requests forum.

This raises the problem of what happens to current reputation. Is it right to transfer it all to the Likes, given that most of them were given after contributions?

Possible solution: rightly associate what received reputation corresponds to what. Can automatic procedures be made to associate correctly? Isn't it possible that there are posts in the modding area that better fit Likes and posts in the town hall that better fit the Contributions category? Paradigmatic cases like the House of Rohan.
​

 

[Deleted member 219079]

How about: Hide reputation and post count from the public eye / set it only visible to the person himself, so everyone is equal *insert rainbow here*

 

[andreariona]

rep basically shows how good of a person u are. the higher rep u have ur probably a better person than sum1 with low rep or neg rep who are scum bags

Or also; Higher rep = socially active on the site while the low rep rarely/almost never socialize at all.
Negative rep are obvious.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Tl;dr at the bottom.

Since I joined Hive the reputation system has always been confusing to me. Mainly because reputation can be received for almost anything on the site, and is obviously abusable.

What is reputation meant to resemble?
...

Hrm. What an interesting discussion.

When it comes right down to it, Reputation on sites like this is like Karma, Likes, Upvotes, and the like: TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. It literally means nothing but what meaning we attribute to it. It's just a number; anyone can add (and mods can take away) to it at any time, for any reason.

I think you have hit upon one of the primary reasons Wc3C-Veterans like me have looked down upon the Hive for so many years: the massively "social-media-style" elements this website fosters. Reputation (mis/ab)use is chief among those elements.

Reputation should be as it says; "your level of repute", the general level of how helpful/contributive you are to the site as a whole, even an indicator of your general character (as presented online). However, due to the abuses mentioned (rep parties, super-social users, no viable method of restricting Reputation to "meaningful" posts, etc), it has always been devalued on this site.

Case in point, I love getting Rep. Despite my earlier statement ("MEANS NOTHING" ), I enjoy the self-affirming boost of confidence, the "physical" reminder that someone appreciated my help (since as a non-artist with no released projects, that's pretty much my only contribution). Case in case in point, the Rep I received recently from you and a few others, regarding my big "review" posts... That warmed my black little heart.

But still, I have always & will continue to think poorly (in general) of THW's reputation (at least, as compared to Wc3C's), because it's just such an abused system by default. I wish I could delete Reputation, so I could get rid of all the "spreading" reputation.

I'd like to think there is a solution to this, short- and long-term. My favorite suggestion so far is the "everyone can only give out 1 Rep at a time", along with modifying how Contests reward users (it shouldn't be all that hard, to be honest; do a Search excluding all Rep given that includes the little line about "given for X contest").

Tl;dr - Read the post

Lol, that's great.

Cruise control for ego.

Lol, so true.

Your TL;DR sucked. Now I have no idea what this thread was about... but I never let that stop me before!

Lol, I can literally only comment with ridiculous abbreviations for laughter!

:<

i agree completely, and i hate to be 'that guy', but someone has to call out those who clearly abuse the system.

-grendel, frankster, pharaoh, vengeancekael, purgeandfire. neither of these imbeciles have contributed anything to the site, and continue to persist as wastes of bandwith. they exemplify the hamartia of giving users the ability to rep. i take more shits per day than these guys contribute resources/helpful information per annum.

reputation works. not perfectly, but abuse is in the minority of situations. not much to discuss

What?! -Grendel & Frankster have almost literally populated the Model Resource section... PurgeandFire does Triggers like a mofo, and Vengeancekael does... things. I think. Muy confusado.

So perhaps we could explore on the alternative of using two or three separate systems: one for contributions, another one for Likes/reputation and possibly a third one for contest points?

On the conversion side, allow me to consider a few more options, their (dis)advantages and synthesize them:

(I) Keep a single reputation system but try to fix it by imposing new rules, such as a singular reputation point power for everyone

As noted, this raises the retroactiveness issue. Three solutions are available:

• Keep the current reputation pool for everyone, but apply the new rules from now on,
• Set everyone's reputation to zero and apply the new rules from thereon
• Retroactively calculate users' reputation pool applying the new rules

The majority here seems to be included for option #c — as am I.

Option #a would place a high disparity for starters, perhaps.



(II) Have two separate systems: one for Likes/reputation, another one for contributions on the forums, such as helping out in the Help Zone or Requests forum.

This raises the problem of what happens to current reputation. Is it right to transfer it all to the Likes, given that most of them were given after contributions?

Possible solution: rightly associate what received reputation corresponds to what. Can automatic procedures be made to associate correctly? Isn't it possible that there are posts in the modding area that better fit Likes and posts in the town hall that better fit the Contributions category? Paradigmatic cases like the House of Rohan.
​

Haven't read this all, but I like where the thought process is going. Definitely think more than one "rep-like" system would be redundant and under-utilized.

 

[Asomath]

What?! -Grendel & Frankster have almost literally populated the Model Resource section... PurgeandFire does Triggers like a mofo, and Vengeancekael does... things. I think. Muy confusado.

There lays his point.
............................................

At the end of the day, reputation is just something for you to interpret. For me, I like to use the system to give my compliments to a user for something they've done, whether its a resource, a helping hand, or even just good humor.

Nearly all users here know that when they appreciate a member in this community, its because they've been an active contributor to the site, not because they've accrued a mass of reputation.

What is important to remember is that reputation does not entitle superiority. Just because someone has acquired more reputation in ways that may seem unskillful or unhelpful does not belittle your contributions in any way. It's fine to want lots of colorful gems under your name, and its great to be proud of that, because it DOES have some worth to it. But that shouldn't be your sole motivation for participating in the community.

Cheers,
~Asomath

 

[Kyrbi0]

There lays his point.
............................................

Ah dan't fallow, me boyo.

But that shouldn't be your sole motivation for participating in the community.

QFT.

 

[Ralle]

Three rep systems at the same time? Woot, that's not gonna happen .

I like the idea of everyone having a rep power of 1 and resetting all rep comments to 1. I would of course have to not reset the rep awards as those are not normal rep.

We have to understand what rep is. It is points that we give to each other when we see fit. People with more numbers can be more liked, helpful, lulzy or productive. So why do you have many points? Because you have gotten some kind of reaction from people. That's all there is to it.

 

[Avex]

I've been on this site for quite a few years and have seen much, usually just me lurking. I don't post often, never did -that- much. I do like the welcoming feeling of THW, but every time I come back, I just see people's rep increase more and more and more as the days go on.

Usually the new guys who get tons of rep get it from actually having a really good resource, say a skin or a model.

But at the same time, I see other people who don't post as often, or don't do as much as they used to, continue to get rep for the sake of them being themselves.

When I see, Ralle for example. I know he's the man, but a newbie might not. As a newbie, I see that he has a TON of cake (since I'm running the sc2 theme). WOW, that's alot of cake. He must be REALLY popular and liked by everyone! I'm gunna give him a +1 cupcake or muffin or whatever that thing is, because he seems cool! And his post sounds smart!

So I dunno, I'm kinda torn. To be honest I think rep is stupid, as mentioned before it is an ego containment in ways, and in others a way to release it.

I do like the idea of rep being invisible to anyone but yourself. It should be a record for you to see how you're doing, if you're doing good amongst the community. For those who are in the red, maybe put an alert on their profile (I think infractions do give one.. I only got one and I was like.. 13 or something so I don't really remember it 6 years later) saying hey, here are the rules, here are some good guides and welcome to the internet.

Just my one cent.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Perhaps something like a big red helpful button near the rep button would do it. And replacing rep with a like button. I do like it public though.

 

[Rui]

Haven't read this all, but I like where the thought process is going. Definitely think more than one "rep-like" system would be redundant and under-utilized.

ZzZz come on, it isn't such a long post T.T

Three rep systems at the same time?

Well, it wouldn't be “rep” D;

 

[Solu9]

Three rep systems at the same time? Woot, that's not gonna happen .

I like the idea of everyone having a rep power of 1 and resetting all rep comments to 1. I would of course have to not reset the rep awards as those are not normal rep.

We have to understand what rep is. It is points that we give to each other when we see fit. People with more numbers can be more liked, helpful, lulzy or productive. So why do you have many points? Because you have gotten some kind of reaction from people. That's all there is to it.

And here I thought your were a bull of stone cold silence

Alas I personally think rep power is the least of the problems with the reputation system.
There is still the issue with reputation not representing anything because it can be handed out for even the most useless of comments or posts.
And when it represents nothing, that's when it translates into being utter useless.

I completely agree that three, four, five different point systems is not the way to go. That will just keep ensuring that their uselessness.
Originally I thought reputation was still going to be the only point system, and so, only contributors could, would, should be able to receive that.
No secondary point system because in it's essence, that would not representing anything just as the current reputation system.
But people, myself included, like to get points to be acknowledged in some way. So that's why I suggested two systems.

The core of my "plea" is that reputation (or something else) will represent physical contributions (well, virtual physical (crazy word)) to the site.

All that being said.
A maximum of +1 rep power would be a good start if implemented.

 

[Rui]

Hey I wasn't the one to suggest two separate systems in the first place! D;

So, I think Karma is actually a good name =) Any pompous name someone would like to give to helpfulness?

Another option would be to keep reputation only for helpfulness and abolish social reputation altogether.

However, I'm really interested in having these two systems, one would be similar to that of StackOverflow, the other resembling the Likes on Facebook — I know a lot of people around here despise Facebook, so we'd have to be cautious on such an approach.

 

[Vengeancekael]

i agree completely, and i hate to be 'that guy', but someone has to call out those who clearly abuse the system.

-grendel, frankster, pharaoh, vengeancekael, purgeandfire. neither of these imbeciles have contributed anything to the site, and continue to persist as wastes of bandwith. they exemplify the hamartia of giving users the ability to rep. i take more shits per day than these guys contribute resources/helpful information per annum.

reputation works. not perfectly, but abuse is in the minority of situations. not much to discuss

I pissed myself.

 

[Solu9]

Originally Posted by GhostThruster View Post
i agree completely, and i hate to be 'that guy', but someone has to call out those who clearly abuse the system.

-grendel, frankster, pharaoh, vengeancekael, purgeandfire. neither of these imbeciles have contributed anything to the site, and continue to persist as wastes of bandwith. they exemplify the hamartia of giving users the ability to rep. i take more shits per day than these guys contribute resources/helpful information per annum.

reputation works. not perfectly, but abuse is in the minority of situations. not much to discuss

I pissed myself.

Yes, the post is hilarious and a great contribution to the topic.

 

[Vengeancekael]

Well it's not a bad contribution, really, Ghosty has a point.
People just make it seem worse than it really is. The system's flawed, but not /that/ much.

 

[Solu9]

Well it's not a bad contribution, really, Ghosty has a point.
People just make it seem worse than it really is. The system's flawed, but not /that/ much.

Perhaps it's just me. But making a point using sarcasm is more often than not a bad idea.
But you're right. Whether or not the current reputation system is fine or lacking entirely depends on the user.
This, however, also means that your interpretation of people making the reputation state "worse" is subjective.

That being said. Your, or GhostThruster's for that matter, view is welcome. But sarcasm is better left out.

 

[Rui]

Would you please comment on my last non-sarcastic post?^^

 

[Solu9]

Would you please comment on my last non-sarcastic post?^^

Hah, yes yes

Hey I wasn't the one to suggest two separate systems in the first place! D;

So, I think Karma is actually a good name =) Any pompous name someone would like to give to helpfulness?

Another option would be to keep reputation only for helpfulness and abolish social reputation altogether.

However, I'm really interested in having these two systems, one would be similar to that of StackOverflow, the other resembling the Likes on Facebook — I know a lot of people around here despise Facebook, so we'd have to be cautious on such an approach.

Karma is just as good as Bunny Points. Actually I don't care what they are called, but I guess Karma would resemble the function of the points very well.

As I wrote... somewhere, for all I care a secondary point system for just being social could be scrapped altogether. My main objective was the state of the current reputation system.
But to be realistic. Not implementing another point system (assuming the suggestions made in the first post were to be enforced) would probably cause molten lava to run from non-resource-uploading-users' eyes.
Said in short. I think a secondary point system (Karma) for being social and whatevs, needs to be implemented if changes were made to the current reputation system.

And sure. Caution is needed when changing such a big thing as reputation (I guess that's one of the reasons no changes has been made already).
But seeing as how reputation is more or less being used as "likes" (as mentioned hundred of times) anyway, I don't see a problem with implementing a quite similar system for the socials.
It would roughly be something like:
Karma -> for the social
Reputation -> for the artists

 

[Heinvers]

Karma -> for the social
Reputation -> for the artists

Interesting

 

[General Frank]

Why not abolish rep once and for all then?
Basically it is just an epeen contest. Really, it is.

For me it is more important what rating my models and threads have and how many downloads my resources have.
I am happy when even just one user or 'lurker' has downloaded on of my resources.
We should not be working towards our own well being (believe me I feel that some nameful people here are just here to get one lousy, worthless internet points), but we should concentrate on the community. And that is the main reason why the community seems to be broken at many times.

Same goes with ratings. Ratings invoke the feeling of a competition outside the actual competitions. But in a fair community where people build on improving named community there is no need for competition. No competition, no need for ratings. A simple counter how many people like this model, without any kind of reward is mostly enough. If a models is not good there won't be many 'likes'.

Community is more than important and we should try to improve it everywhere we go, include everyone one and build a new golden age. If we could lay down our hate, grudges and fear of other people for just 1 minute we would be much further than we ever were.

Hard and though cookie, but this is just my opinion. It does not have to be right.

 

[Chaosy]

If we add a second option, whatever you call it. What prevents me from giving a user both of those points as a reward for helping me with whatever?

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Why not abolish rep once and for all then?

or

How about: Hide reputation and post count from the public eye / set it only visible to the person himself, so everyone is equal *insert rainbow here*

We can all be equal *insert double rainbow here, from mlp land to jb's house into miley cirus' house and back to ponies*

 

[Heinvers]

If we add a second option, whatever you call it. What prevents me from giving a user both of those points as a reward for helping me with whatever?

Pointing out possible flaws in the proposed system already?

 

[Solu9]

Why not abolish rep once and for all then?
Basically it is just an epeen contest. Really, it is.

For me it is more important what rating my models and threads have and how many downloads my resources have.
I am happy when even just one user or 'lurker' has downloaded on of my resources.
We should not be working towards our own well being (believe me I feel that some nameful people here are just here to get one lousy, worthless internet points), but we should concentrate on the community. And that is the main reason why the community seems to be broken at many times.

Same goes with ratings. Ratings invoke the feeling of a competition outside the actual competitions. But in a fair community where people build on improving named community there is no need for competition. No competition, no need for ratings. A simple counter how many people like this model, without any kind of reward is mostly enough. If a models is not good there won't be many 'likes'.

Community is more than important and we should try to improve it everywhere we go, include everyone one and build a new golden age. If we could lay down our hate, grudges and fear of other people for just 1 minute we would be much further than we ever were.

Hard and though cookie, but this is just my opinion. It does not have to be right.

Shit I'm not sure if you are serious or not. It's just that I didn't expect this kind of post from you. Don't take it the wrong way.

It's a really nice thought but also quite utopic. I'm all in for just scrapping reputation altogether but I think that will hurt the community more than it will help.
People loves acknowledgement for their work (yes, you all do, naturally) and a point system is great for this. If it weren't we would not be talking about reputation.


You bring up a thought I had when writing the OP.
Downloads of a resource.
I myself am looking way more at the download count of a resource of mine rather than the reputation I receive. Users will download a resource if they find it useful and that is saying way more than clicking the reputation button.
So an idea could also be to accumulate the total downloads of an artist's resources and calculating points from there. Then the current reputation system could act like that Karma thingy.
Obviously some changes has to be made to how the download count is... counted.
Fx. if an uploading user downloads his own resource it should not be counted. For everyone else only the first download should count. This will also increase the incitement of improving one's resources.

This method is also not flawless. Because what happens if a user find a resource useful but is not in need of it? Nothing. He will not download it. But in my opinion that is a flaw with can be lived with.


On rating.
This is the most useless and biased system here on Hive.
If a user likes a resource then in 99% of the cases he will either grant a rating of 4 or 5. If he dislike the resource he will not rate at all.
I personally couldn't care less for the rating system (except for moderators), because the common user is not capable of a somewhat objective opinion. Either because of social engagement with the uploading user, or because he has no in depth knowledge on how to create the resource in question.

If we add a second option, whatever you call it. What prevents me from giving a user both of those points as a reward for helping me with whatever?

Have you read the whole thread?
No matter.
The suggestion suggests that reputation can only be given in the resource sections (and perhaps the help sections).
Whereas, let's just call it Karma, Karma is received from anything else.
You have a point though. The suggested system is not flawless because it can still be abused but only if the receiving user also has resources uploaded.
Perhaps I should add a follow up suggestion:
-A resource can only receive reputation when or if it is approved.

We can all be equal *insert double rainbow here, from mlp land to jb's house into miley cirus' house and back to ponies*

I'm not sure if you actually are saying/suggesting something, or just want to tag along. Sorry.

Pointing out possible flaws in the proposed system already?

This should perhaps be directed at Chaosy but in any case.
I have been pointing out flaws myself through the whole thread, and am in no way trying to cover this up.